Guild Wars 2

We have a couple necro’s in our guild that do high-level Fractals, but we only take them if we already have a team of 2 guards and 2 warriors. Although a Necro’s DPS can be carried by the warriors (Fury and Might) like Nike’s build, it’s still subpar. You’ll mostly be a leech to your runs though, seeing how probably even the AH guardian is pumping more DPS than you.

The choice is up to you of course, but I’d personally feel like a burden to my team if I were a necro/engi/ranger in high level Fractals. All the other professions can actually be useful (although the skill ceiling for being a good thief is pretty high).

Although that gearing up your warrior shouldn’t be that difficult. You can get to lvl 20 by spamming <20 uneven levels and you should have enough pristines and shards to get your warrior a comfi 20 AR to begin with in lvl 20+. If you have done your dailies semi-regularly you’ll have 25 from the get-go and maybe even 30 if you have enough relics for another backpiece.

About the trinkets… Our guild got all missions unlocked second or third on our server and we were sitting at about 30-40 active members at the time. There are decent dungeon/fractal guilds out there that also have missions unlocked. You should look out for one of them. Although if it’s mainly Fractals you’re looking for, our guild might not be the best choice for you since we mainly run dungeons and Fractals every now and then.

It depends on whether you enjoy the class, I run with necros quite often and if they play well, they make mobs melt, aside from that, the necro should be getting some great buffs next patch, making them even more efficient. If you like the necro more than the warrior, just stay on the necro, this game is about fun, and while warriors often are more efficient, they don’t neccesarily make the game any more interesting. Don’t worry about not being accepted into parties btw, the people who discriminate on class arent the ones you’d want to run with anyways.

You don’t have to it’s just that they will be subpar in sustained aoe heavy content like grawl and dredge (esp dredge since plague will be useless there) but no one wants to hear that. The fact is that 99% of the necros out there in pve are just terrible players and they give a bad name to the rest of the class. Same went for mesmers when the game came out, thieves up until about 2 months ago, eles until a month ago, etc. If you like necro more than war and are a good player, then stay on necro and do your own thing. You’ll still be amazing on colossus and grawl (if you know what you’re doing). The chills at the ritual phase and on bubble are highly underrated and none of the “holy trinity” can chill or even cripple a bubbled boss.

The good thing about playing necro is that everyone already expects you to be terrible. As long as you don’t immediately prove them right, you’re going to look god mode.

randomfightfan.4091:

You don’t have to it’s just that they will be subpar in sustained aoe heavy content like grawl and dredge (esp dredge since plague will be useless there) but no one wants to hear that. The fact is that 99% of the necros out there in pve are just terrible players and they give a bad name to the rest of the class. Same went for mesmers when the game came out, thieves up until about 2 months ago, eles until a month ago, etc. If you like necro more than war and are a good player, then stay on necro and do your own thing. You’ll still be amazing on colossus and grawl (if you know what you’re doing). The chills at the ritual phase and on bubble are highly underrated and none of the “holy trinity” can chill or even cripple a bubbled boss.

The good thing about playing necro is that everyone already expects you to be terrible. As long as you don’t immediately prove them right, you’re going to look god mode.

Necro is really great in fractals like dredges and ascalon. And if by “holy trinity” you mean war/gua/mes you can cripple or immobilize the boss without any traits.

randomfightfan.4091:

The chills at the ritual phase and on bubble are highly underrated and none of the “holy trinity” can chill or even cripple a bubbled boss.

Considering the speed at which a trinity group kills adds and breaks bubbles.. chills aren’t underrated, more like you are overrating them. It’s still good to use if you bring an elementalist in the group, but they are not the selling point of any class whatsoever. You can’t sell me a necro on the basis of their chill when we kill the adds and break the bubbles as fast as we do.

@Sam:

If you don’t intend to join a decent dungeon guild, and mostly pug your runs.. and want 48 fractals, I don’t recommend warrior. Guardian and mesmer are better choices considering the fact that you can’t trust guardian and mesmers pug to do a decent job. Elementalist and thief are also decent choices but much squishier so you really need to be decent with dodges/evades/blocks. If you roll thief be prepared to get kicked a lot because 99% pug thieves camp their bow and pistols and put such a bad reputation to the class that at this point even players who have played thief in fractals wouldn’t let a pug thief enter their group.

DPS warrior shines in almost every dungeon in this game except for fractals. If your guardians/mesmers/ele or whatever that can bring decent support are bad, then you could be the god of warriors and still can’t do anything to make the run go smoother.
DPS war is extremely good for runs with a good guard friend you can trust or with an organized guild. It’s extremely bad for 100% pugged FOTM. Unlike other dungeons where warriors can and have solo-ed almost everything, warriors have nothing against some of the more egregious fractal mechanics where projectile absorb/reflection are a must. If your guardians suck and go down a lot you can’t replace them with your war.

The way you wrote your post seems to imply that you don’t want to join a guild except for guild missions to get your commendations. If you don’t intend to join a good, strong dungeon guild, and you intend to pug FOTM 48, you really ought to reconsider the thought of getting a warrior there.

randomfightfan.4091:

The chills at the ritual phase and on bubble are highly underrated and none of the “holy trinity” can chill or even cripple a bubbled boss.

And yet the holy trinity doesnt need those chills at all. Small tricks like weakness for dredge, blind for cliffside mobs, etc sound good on paper, but are quite irrelevant in practice. On the other hand, the overall tradeoffs for bringing necro instead of another war/guard/ele are huge.

When I was still playing thief I felt kind of smug thinking my stealth, spammable immobilize/blind, etc were irreplaceable but after rolling war/guard and running with some good players I realized a competent group doesnt need those fancy skills of mine at all.

Frankly I find class loyalty in gw2’s broken pve to be dumb and borderline stubbornness.

Might want to wait until the big update coming soon? A fair few changes to Necro from what I hear.

Razeor.6271:

Frankly I find class loyalty in gw2’s broken pve to be dumb and borderline stubbornness.

“Play the Way You Want to Play Even Though it Means Having an Entirely Underpowered Character, Oh and Don’t Forget to Get Mad at People Who Point Out Your Class’s Shortcomings.”

Warrior is the optimal profession for dungeons. And please before you tell me l2p, in a game without trinity where everyone rely on their self heal and a dodge button. there is going to be a optimal build and that is warrior in full berserker.

tom.7468:

Warrior is the optimal profession for dungeons. And please before you tell me l2p, in a game without trinity where everyone rely on their self heal and a dodge button. there is going to be a optimal build and that is warrior in full berserker.

Not really… In high level Fractals, you as a DPS warrior rely heavily (if not completely) on the skill of your Guardians if you want to melee.

We did a 36 yesterday with 1 Guardian that wasn’t used to melee’ing high level Fractals at all. We did the Mossman fight and tried to melee it 2 or 3 times before we just went range, because it wasn’t working.

I’ve gone full melee on Mossman in lvl48 on my warrior with 10 less AR than I have now, and it worked out perfectly, because our Guardians were able to take care of my survivability while I did my DPS.

Like Nikaido said: you can be the god of warriors, but if your Guardians suck in high level Fractals, you’re going to be downed a lot on certain fights.

I will just say that i played a engi as my main for about 6 months. He has the perfect armor set, mix of arah, TA and other parts. All Dyes. World complete star. All story mode dungeons. And a lot of etc’s (rlly, a lot more etc’s). At end i think i get like 400 sp at same time (double or more in total). And patch after patch i just think… bad things from him… and from Anet. Specialy Anet.

Then, like in february, i just realize that i still need to lvl 80 3 clases more to have all 8. Necro (friking meh), Ranger (omg no way) and guardian. I lvl up the guardian to 80 in like 1 week (i love the craft sistem as much i hate the gw2 lvl progresion). I full gear him with knight set. i go to fotm lvl 18 (guard lvl 1 fotm, 10AR rings). And oh men… i cant explain what happend.

From that moment, i just cant play my engi any longer. I cant even see him. I hate him so much… not even using as a pj bank. I. Rlly. Hate. My. Engi.
I take my super guardian, progressively get all dyes again, all story modes, even the friking world star again. 3 stats sets (cleric/knight/zeker). And other etc’s.

now i just use zeker for all situations, even in fotm 48. Its that good. I love to have 3 zeker sets with diferent runes and not the crapy cleric/knight/zeker i have now. Why i want cleric or knight? i am full zeker and almost all time the most tanky guy in the party! I. Rlly. Love. My. Guard.

And i just remember how hard was all with my engi. the bodyshots. the crap direct damage. The 1500 safe range and “deal with hits tanky boys, i will wait you here”. The useles party suport. The kick pugs at the exact moment i join the party (i dont blame them, they did the right thing).The… just all.

So back to the question

should I just dump my necro […] and start […] with my warrior?

YES! Do it. Omg just do it!

What do you guys think?

The warrior/guardian/(mesmer) are the only pve class in this game right now. The DPS (direct, not that crapy 25 max stacks) its the only mechanic in the game. Make your warrior ALL zeker. Dont mix with PVT or knight. ALL ZEKER. Golden rule. If you need more survival, use traits and utilitys. Spam banners. Spam shouts. Spam 2GS FTW. ENJOY THE GAME (and dont be kicked never again from a party for using a npc class).

Sry for the english.

‘…you can’t trust guardian and mesmers pug to do a decent job.’

This is the number 1 lesson of fractals. ^. I recommend rolling this class because pugs are mentally handicapped in this area.

Also this made me kittening lol so hard I spat out my orange juice.

‘“Play the Way You Want to Play Even Though it Means Having an Entirely Underpowered Character, Oh and Don’t Forget to Get Mad at People Who Point Out Your Class’s Shortcomings.”’

I wanna add to that.. Swag, yolo, 1 like= 1 prayer, Kony 2012.

I can’t understand why most gw2 players stick to one character to be their “main”.

Dub.1273:

I can’t understand why most gw2 players stick to one character to be their “main”.

Fractals. Fractals really made it count. Well, it counts a bit less now but the workaround is a huge annoyance. Technically you just need to be on the same server as someone else and have them open at your lvl, and then could just switch at maw to your highest lvl character for your reward but it’s a pain in the darkstar to do that everyday. The fact that fractal levels aren’t account bound sucks. The fact that ascended gear is time gated also doesn’t help. Although you don’t need a lot of AR to deal with 48 decently. Still pugs will kick you if you don’t have enough AR, so people like OP who pug a lot can’t run an alt in FOTM 48 unless they have all 6 ascended pieces. Running alts with low AR, like I did yesterday with my ele that had 15 AR in a lvl 36 fractal run, is only something you can do with guildies nowadays. Try to join a pug with low AR and you’ll get kicked. Pugs don’t care if you can dodge the agony. Pugs don’t care how experienced you are with fractals. If you don’t link 6 pieces of pink gear you can’t join 48. And it will only get worse once anet releases ascended armor and weapons. I nearly made guardian into my main but changed my mind and might invest all future ascended on my ele instead because of the versatility of the class.

Anyway even altaholics like me have to make a decision on which character they’ll invest their stuff first, because that’s anet’s direction for gw2. gw2 != gw1.

I usually join pugs with 0AR and die twice at maw. Not a huge deal to me.
The reward level issue sucks, though, just as much as fractals themselves do.

Dub.1273:

I usually join pugs with 0AR and die twice at maw. Not a huge deal to me.
The reward level issue sucks, though, just as much as fractals themselves do.

From what I’ve read from your previous posts you have yet to reach 48. And I don’t know about EU pug culture for fractals but here it’s exactly this :
[name censored] Dungeon – Fractals of the Mists 48 lf1m 45 ar min, heavy/mes preferred 26 minutes

Last request for 48 fotm taken straight from gw2lfg. 45 AR = 2 earrings, 2 rings, 1 upgraded backpiece (250 ecto spent), 1 amulet.
“45 AR min” means that if you don’t ping that you get kicked.

You pretty much have to have a main in this game now. This is even more true if you want to have various builds for your main rather than only one type of ascended gear. If you want to be able to switch between builds it’s a long term investment and you can only do that with a single character.

Dub.1273:

I can’t understand why most gw2 players stick to one character to be their “main”.

I have to get all my shinies on my main first! My main is my necro but I only use her for guild missions and open world pve these days. Still want weapon skins and kitten on her before i get them on my alts.

Necros could well be getting big buffs soon in a major patch on the 25th June, so I would check that out and choose then…

I think you’re trolling or something. We start off with 5 character slots. Who scraps a main with that much bling just b/c some other flavor of the month class carries your team a bit better?? Playing for ALL the wrong reasons then buddy. Better uninstall completely instead just to be on the safe side!

ilr.9675:

Who scraps a main with that much bling

Reminds me of this mesmer I know who never switches from staff because ITS A BITFROST, or those meteorlogicus ele/juggernaut war I’ve met in pugs.

Sam.7269:

Still there’s no hardcore PvE oriented guild on my EU server ( Far Shiverpeaks) so I would hate to join some WvW guild that’s big or some kitten like that just to get my accesories. Such a pain.

I don’t know about EU, but on NA servers guilds offer public missions all the time. You just join the day of the missions and they purge all Guests after the missions are over. Easy.

Sam.7269:

Still there’s no hardcore PvE oriented guild on my EU server ( Far Shiverpeaks) so I would hate to join some WvW guild that’s big or some kitten like that just to get my accesories. Such a pain.

Try to contact Define [HC]

They post videos on Youtube of the lvl40 Fractal runs. I have no idea what their server is, but a couple of their names are: Belthor Glavor, Jocke Henriksson, Kreml, kitten Rainbow and Lost soul of tyria. I have no idea if they’re open for recruitment or anything, all I’ve seen is their videos and the guy that commentates them is a pretty nice guy, since I’ve had some discussions with him on reddit.

Yeah they are currently recruiting but make sure you have DM title and fractal level 30+ before applying, everyone else won’t be given a trial because they might not have enough experience and skill. kitten , i must have missed lots of game mechanics because of not having done CoF Path 3…

yes cut your losses, honestly its not that bad. i have 3 characters in fully ascended gear (all 6 pieces) and just started of my 1st assescort for 4th alt as of todays missions. its not that hard if you play enough and you do guild missions every week. unless you plan on playing gw2 for only a month longer, clearly you will get enough commendations, laurels from monthly, considering its almost july etc…

eventually you/most people should want all level 80’s 8 classes with full gear, full skins, full ascended etc so just consider you did it a little skewed order, but if you like playing nec, its not really a waste. but ya you need a alt class

i made my ele first in full exotic mf gear, mapped to 60 percent, never play her. deleted a 80 asuran mes fully gear 40 map complete, etc.. it happens. it wont be a waste if you still play nec, but just dont use him for the high level organized runs maybe. you can still casual or farm or w/e you do, guild events with ur nec its not relalya a “Waste” to gear up a alt warrior

Dump your necro if you want, but only because you don’t want to play it any longer, not because somebody else has convinced you it’s not fit for purpose.

Nikaido.3457:

randomfightfan.4091:

The chills at the ritual phase and on bubble are highly underrated and none of the “holy trinity” can chill or even cripple a bubbled boss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnKnNAMaf1Q

Considering the speed at which a trinity group kills adds and breaks bubbles.. chills aren’t underrated, more like you are overrating them. It’s still good to use if you bring an elementalist in the group, but they are not the selling point of any class whatsoever. You can’t sell me a necro on the basis of their chill when we kill the adds and break the bubbles as fast as we do.

@Sam:

If you don’t intend to join a decent dungeon guild, and mostly pug your runs.. and want 48 fractals, I don’t recommend warrior. Guardian and mesmer are better choices considering the fact that you can’t trust guardian and mesmers pug to do a decent job. Elementalist and thief are also decent choices but much squishier so you really need to be decent with dodges/evades/blocks. If you roll thief be prepared to get kicked a lot because 99% pug thieves camp their bow and pistols and put such a bad reputation to the class that at this point even players who have played thief in fractals wouldn’t let a pug thief enter their group.

DPS warrior shines in almost every dungeon in this game except for fractals. If your guardians/mesmers/ele or whatever that can bring decent support are bad, then you could be the god of warriors and still can’t do anything to make the run go smoother.
DPS war is extremely good for runs with a good guard friend you can trust or with an organized guild. It’s extremely bad for 100% pugged FOTM. Unlike other dungeons where warriors can and have solo-ed almost everything, warriors have nothing against some of the more egregious fractal mechanics where projectile absorb/reflection are a must. If your guardians suck and go down a lot you can’t replace them with your war.

The way you wrote your post seems to imply that you don’t want to join a guild except for guild missions to get your commendations. If you don’t intend to join a good, strong dungeon guild, and you intend to pug FOTM 48, you really ought to reconsider the thought of getting a warrior there.

I’m only level 60 fractals, but I would take a Guard, Ele, Necro any day over warrior. Especially on shaman. I leveled through the 50s with eles, guards, necros and rarely warriors. I would take a good necro over a good warrior any day of the week.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’m only level 60 fractals, but I would take a Guard, Ele, Necro any day over warrior. Especially on shaman. I leveled through the 50s with eles, guards, necros and rarely warriors. I would take a good necro over a good warrior any day of the week.

And I’m only level 80, have been so for 4 months but I would still take a good war over a good necro any day of the week. Even with level 79 shaman, two guards is all you should ever need.

Level 60 or 80, they all have as much significance as that lol dungeon master title. People can get carried/inch their way to 48 despite being bad, and they can do the same til level 80.

Saying playing what and how you want to play, stop and smell the roses with your friends to have a fun and relaxed time, etc is one thing, warrior being objectively better than necro in pve is another. What matters is whether OP asked about the latter or former.

Razeor.6271:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’m only level 60 fractals, but I would take a Guard, Ele, Necro any day over warrior. Especially on shaman. I leveled through the 50s with eles, guards, necros and rarely warriors. I would take a good necro over a good warrior any day of the week.

And I’m only level 80, have been so for 4 months but I would still take a good war over a good necro any day of the week. Even with level 79 shaman, two guards is all you should ever need.

Level 60 or 80, they all have as much significance as that lol dungeon master title. People can get carried/inch their way to 48 despite being bad, and they can do the same til level 80.

Saying playing what and how you want to play, stop and smell the roses with your friends to have a fun and relaxed time, etc is one thing, warrior being objectively better than necro in pve is another. What matters is whether OP asked about the latter or former.

Warrior is only objectively better than Necro in SOME PVE. I’d argue that in many places, including some fractals, a good Necro is objectively better.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Warrior is only objectively better than Necro in SOME PVE. I’d argue that in many places, including some fractals, a good Necro is objectively better.

Well then I’d say that you are objectively wrong.

The best composition for levels 40s is currently
1 Anchor Guardian with Hammer
1 DPS Guardian with Sword/Focus + GS for pulls
2 Zerker Wars
1 Other (1 more Zerk War or Ele or Mesmer)

Theif would be the next best thing in the other slot besides those 3. Then I guess Necro and Engineer. Dead last would be Ranger. People can argue otherwise but that’s how it is so I’d suggest going with guardian or warrior to have an easier time getting in groups and being productive. Elementalists and mesmers can be very good if played right but might be desired less since it takes skill to be productive for those classes.

I leave you with a 3min mossman kill at 48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9cJWm-toi0
This is us just doing a normal run not putting on specific gear/traits/sigils etc to get a speed kill time and he went into his troll form at 1/5 hp after 2min and slowed us down. I don’t see other classes being able to do it that well/fast in a normal run as well as any of the other bosses I have videos for for fractal 40s. People like to be stubborn and stick with what they have and defend it to death and haters are going to hate.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Razeor.6271:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’m only level 60 fractals, but I would take a Guard, Ele, Necro any day over warrior. Especially on shaman. I leveled through the 50s with eles, guards, necros and rarely warriors. I would take a good necro over a good warrior any day of the week.

And I’m only level 80, have been so for 4 months but I would still take a good war over a good necro any day of the week. Even with level 79 shaman, two guards is all you should ever need.

Level 60 or 80, they all have as much significance as that lol dungeon master title. People can get carried/inch their way to 48 despite being bad, and they can do the same til level 80.

Saying playing what and how you want to play, stop and smell the roses with your friends to have a fun and relaxed time, etc is one thing, warrior being objectively better than necro in pve is another. What matters is whether OP asked about the latter or former.

Warrior is only objectively better than Necro in SOME PVE. I’d argue that in many places, including some fractals, a good Necro is objectively better.

The problem is Ive never heard of you, and the best dungeon’ers with video proof of experience beg to differ vastly. So your opinion doesnt hold much weight with me. Also personal experience shows otherwise

Just build your own pug for 40+ fractals. There should be in it:
- one guardian and
- two classes with reflect (mesmer, ele, guardian, thief… maybe also engi and ranger but never tried those)

Rest is up to you.

Necro is sure not useless in fractals, and I wouldnt really say he is subpar either, but that’s for those “warrior-pugs” to discover on their own

As for getting ascended trinkets: arent there some guilds running guild missions weekly in your region? On EU servers there are several you can join for guild missions and then leave again.
But honestly, I wouldnt set my cap on warrior as a class that will always be in demand. Rather that would be mesmer or guardian. If they nerf dmg of warrior only some you again have a class that isnt really that much in demand. Just use your warrior as a farmbot in cof p1, it’s what I do

Btw, did lvl46 fractal with 2 ranger, 1 thief, 1 necro, 1 mesmer two days ago. Fractals: swamp, dredge, shaman. No wipe, and it was one of my fastest runs lvl40+ with a group found on gw2lfg.
Maybe, but only maybe, it would have been faster with 2 warriors, 2 guardians, but for that to work those guardians and warriors would have had to know what to do.
And sadly, most guardians and warriors one can find on gw2lfg definitely DONT know what to do, resulting in wipes, lots of bad words, and wasting my time with players that heard guardian and warrior are THE class to play in fractals.

Long story short: if you want to pug, make a guardian, if you want to join random grps, keep necro, make guardian or mesmer.
Let some other poor soul play warrior and keep on believing warrior will always be best

Yasi.9065:

Long story short: if you want to pug, make a guardian, if you want to join random grps, keep necro, make guardian or mesmer.
Let some other poor soul play warrior and keep on believing warrior will always be best

TBH just have 2 classes with different roles that you enjoy. There will be times when Necro won’t be the best choice, and even then a bit of variety is good for you.

I’m really enjoying my Warrior now, but it wasn’t always the case and it will never be my favorite character to play on. But there will be times when I get in a group and find that the teams DPS is really low, and in those situations the Warrior might swap in to help on that front.

Having options is never a bad thing

(Also just because this game is designed not to need a Trinity, doesn’t mean that some team comps don’t work better than others. You can play with 3 Support and 2 Hybrids, and you will be able to do most dungeons but it might get tedious, and there are a few fights were lacking DPS really makes the fight much harder.

Same is true with Necros, I don’t mind a Necro on my team, but I definitely try to avoid 2 Condition based Necros in the same team.)

Again, repost of my last post to the poster above. Why is there an abundance of video proof showing otherwise but these super pro necs never have any proof? Why are the people who are considered most efficient/pro in game by the community totally disagreeing with your opinion. Please help me understand this and I would would be vastly more willing to accept this.

You say no wipes, but again, the warrior teams dont wipe either and do it in less time with less hassle. Ofc you can do it with any class, there isnt a trinity. If you couldnt, the game would be broken. But that doesnt mean warriors are worse.

Its like my moms logic. Ants = your eating too much at desk while playing PC. My counter argument, theres ants in my bathroom too but i never had food in there ever.

someone posted while i was typing. comment @ 2 posters above

JJBigs.8456:

Its like my moms logic. Ants = your eating too much at desk while playing PC. My counter argument, theres ants in my bathroom too but i never had food in there ever.

Those ants are eating all the dead skin flakes that wash off your body and don’t make it to the drain. Mmmm delicious.

swiftpaw.6397:

JJBigs.8456:

Its like my moms logic. Ants = your eating too much at desk while playing PC. My counter argument, theres ants in my bathroom too but i never had food in there ever.

Those ants are eating all the dead skin flakes that wash off your body and don’t make it to the drain. Mmmm delicious.

But he wouldnt have so much skin if he didnt eat too much at desk, so in the end, his mum was right? ^^

JJBigs, there’s no proof because Im not interested in demonstrating it. Im not even interested in you believing me Im just interested in making my point, which is: other grp setups work too, heck, even grp setups without guardian work, and with grps found on gw2lfg not having two warriors in grp is – most of the time – better and faster.

The game is balanced around PvP. That’s how most of the class balance works. The PvE side is then tailored to somewhat fit that balance. The issue is, things that help out in PvP can have little to no effect in PvE. Blinds? There’s a whole fractal/dungeon that pretty much ignores those. No projectile block/reflect when you can be one-shot by PvE enemies? Have fun with that. Bleeds? Say hi to the cap.

As much as I wish that they could balance the PvE stuff for more classes certain ones will always be sub-par as long as the focus stays on PvP. I’d definitely say keep the Necro around if you have any plans for WvW or sPvP, I’ve heard they can be quite fun there. However, if you want to be the most effective in Fractals/dungeons go for another class.

JJBigs.8456:

Again, repost of my last post to the poster above. Why is there an abundance of video proof showing otherwise but these super pro necs never have any proof? Why are the people who are considered most efficient/pro in game by the community totally disagreeing with your opinion. Please help me understand this and I would would be vastly more willing to accept this.

You say no wipes, but again, the warrior teams dont wipe either and do it in less time with less hassle. Ofc you can do it with any class, there isnt a trinity. If you couldnt, the game would be broken. But that doesnt mean warriors are worse.

Its like my moms logic. Ants = your eating too much at desk while playing PC. My counter argument, theres ants in my bathroom too but i never had food in there ever.

someone posted while i was typing. comment @ 2 posters above

What sort of proof would you require? No one has really started standardizing speed runs for fractals. No zerk war team has recorded the world record for speed for any of the fractals. What would it take to show you that certain fractals can be done better with a Necro or Engineer or Ranger instead of a warrior?

Here is a video of the individual who I believe was the first to hit 80, doing shaman with no warriors:

Now I know, you could argue that a group of warriors could do it better. But until you get a decent number of groups that high that can actually start setting time standards and records, it’s all going to be a matter of opinion. Just because it’s been well established that the fastest lupi kill and fastest cof runs are usually done with warriors, doesn’t mean that other elements of the game conclusively are.

I remember seeing Weth a while back saying he usually feels like he’s being carried on shaman because warriors are useless there. Now he may have been being sarcastic, but I don’t think so. He’s about as “pro” of a warrior as you can get.

Edit:

First person to get to 80 on classes in fractals:

“If this is pointed to ele than I can just laugh out loud. since you haven’t metioned the most imba skill for this fractal for an ele…

I really hate the attitude that most ppl search for certain proffesions… all of them are extremly strong if played right…

and I guess it’s possible to beet every fractal in every class combination. at least there is no fractal I can think of witch wouldn’t be pretty easy with 5 good ele’s on scale 80. guess same for guards with other classes it might be hard if you have a team with warriors only I guess maybe they can dps it out still but not too sure ( I imagine the Dredge one is hard if they don’t time the doges perfectly). Still…

If you think that other classes don’t contribute too mutch or as mutch as you it might be that they’re just not good at playing their class.. or maybe you just not realizing what they do for their team ( invis blind , tanking the adds while you dps)..

Just stop it searching for some classes or saying some classes are bad…

btw I’m really curious in the highest lvl you completed grawl:)"

Also, Westhospu regarding warriors on grawl:

Wethospu.6437:

“I tried to solo it on my Warrior on level 10. Really showed how crap Warrior actually is, unless you have someone carrying you.”

and

“Not much to tell. At melee dodging every attack. Sometimes its dive bomb instantly kills me when I get unlucky (it does damage before circles even appear and also hits clearly outside of circles).
Then Elementals appear and 1) I can’t break shield on time and 2) they just kill me.

It’s not like Mesmer who has clones helping with shield and aggro and anti-projectile against Elementals."

To Sam: Whether you end up warrior or an alternate class I would like to ensure you that making an alt and gearing it with fully ascended gear is NOT a waste. If you level regularly (mapping/dungeon), do guild missions, fractals, get exotics with dungeon tokens, you dont even spend money, you make money. Realisticly, itll cost you some because youll want some decent stuff for him, but still its great to be able to switch classes to adapt.

I think most people will say, theres not 1 class thats good at everything. Wars bad at spvp, your name it, there will be a situation that comes up where swapping to your non main is a good idea. Also its more fun to master more than 1 class. You cant really consider yourself a “good” at GW2 if you can only play 1 class, even if on that 1 class you can do all content because the game is far more expansive than 1 class or playstyle.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

JJBigs.8456:

Again, repost of my last post to the poster above. Why is there an abundance of video proof showing otherwise but these super pro necs never have any proof? Why are the people who are considered most efficient/pro in game by the community totally disagreeing with your opinion. Please help me understand this and I would would be vastly more willing to accept this.

You say no wipes, but again, the warrior teams dont wipe either and do it in less time with less hassle. Ofc you can do it with any class, there isnt a trinity. If you couldnt, the game would be broken. But that doesnt mean warriors are worse.

Its like my moms logic. Ants = your eating too much at desk while playing PC. My counter argument, theres ants in my bathroom too but i never had food in there ever.

someone posted while i was typing. comment @ 2 posters above

What sort of proof would you require? No one has really started standardizing speed runs for fractals. No zerk war team has recorded the world record for speed for any of the fractals. What would it take to show you that certain fractals can be done better with a Necro or Engineer or Ranger instead of a warrior?

Fractal 48 with 2+ zerker wars and better classes.

Captain Ashym 0:56 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18WL-QGZDsA
Mossman 3:00 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9cJWm-toi0
Bloomhunger 1:18 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAFxIG-3awM
Legendary Shaman Lornarr 2:30 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7EyabBIfmk
Archdiviner 2:20 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CxZV3WYk8
Raving Asura 1:30 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYs7bo-qlds
Jellyfish Beast 3:33 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-T1FZ61rcU
Legendary Dredge Powersuit 3:15 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDDPPsBnB8k
Legendary Rampaging Ice Elemental 2:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh8j6DRIOms
Legendary Imbued Shaman 5:15 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKdOMkq43OY

These are typical runs and we don’t have setups optimized for each fight to make any record or anything. They didn’t even know I was ever recording so it’s not like they were trying any harder either lols. I don’t see groups filled with the under achiever classes getting around these times normally. As for the rest of the content other than bosses they do great as well. Yes, they do go down but we can rally very fast and not come close to wiping. I had a group with 2 guards, 1 war, and 2 rangers and the run took forever, especially dredge since rallying wasn’t an option with 2 rangers.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Also, Westhospu regarding warriors on grawl:

Wethospu.6437:

“I tried to solo it on my Warrior on level 10. Really showed how crap Warrior actually is, unless you have someone carrying you.”

and

“Not much to tell. At melee dodging every attack. Sometimes its dive bomb instantly kills me when I get unlucky (it does damage before circles even appear and also hits clearly outside of circles).
Then Elementals appear and 1) I can’t break shield on time and 2) they just kill me.

It’s not like Mesmer who has clones helping with shield and aggro and anti-projectile against Elementals."

For soloing…. any class that doesn’t have reflects/projectile destruction will have a miserable time trying to attempt it. I’m guessing he pugs and doesn’t get guardians in his group or they don’t do what they should. If you have good guardians in the group then warriors can kill the elementals quickly which helps the group a lot and the shield wouldn’t be a problem either.

At the pace they balance PvE you’ll have 8 lv80 characters sooner than waiting for them to fix your clas in PvE.

With this patch the 25th they actually nerfed rangers and made them even more undesirable in PvE.

It’s just CoF, but it does show that Necro damage isn’t really that far behind. It’s a random group of unpracticed individuals that the uploader gathered by LFing for berserker necros. Finished the run in about 6mins, 1min slower then a warrior group (see video comments). With some practice and optimization, I’m sure they could do it faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_z_TCamD4ew
Necros also boast a health pool that matches warriors, and have death shroud as a defensive tool. Their condition conversion is a useful asset to the group, and the coming patche’s buff to weakness should see their debuffing potential increased.
People are stubborn and it’s hard to get things going outside of the established Meta, if not for that I’m sure additional viable builds/classes could be found and optimized.
That being said, Zerker warrior is still the easiest way to go though.

Arewn.2368:

It’s just CoF, but it does show that Necro damage isn’t really that far behind.

No, what this video shows is that CoF is 4 minutes of running. The actual parts where they had to kill things (Slave Driver, End Boss) were MUCH slower. The slave driver had half of his HP after a timewarp.. the effigy fight was just a sad sight to see for anyone who knows how fast this boss can drop in a good group, and not necessarily a war group, even a group with thieves and ele can down this much faster.
That time warp at the effigy.. you might as well ask why you’re bringing a mesmer to such a run.. you know, with one warrior rather than your mesmer the run would’ve been faster. Seriously. The mesmer is useless if your group can’t even do some might stacking. The war would bring a fire field, blast his own, use FGJ, warbanner at the end (perma fury with just one war when you can use that banner), bring discipline and strength and actually make your 4necro/1war run faster. Banners are blast finisher and a war can blast it three to four times all by himself during the duration of the longbow field. The rest of the group can pick up and blast some too.
A 4 necro group would take HOURS to complete a fractal 48 run where you can’t just skip everything, particularly true of the dredge fractal.

This group could certainly do a little bit better as other necro players have said in the other thread but this would still be a disaster in anything that would require cleaving damage.

Warriors are the easiest to pump good dps, while other classes need more work (thieves have to use blast finishers on fire fields to gain good might stack etc), but overall, if you want fast runs without doing fastest run, most classes can fill in.. except for necro and rangers really. Those two.. have nothing of worth to bring.

Nike’s necro can replace one warrior somewhat but that class is a leech. Thieves and ele can blast fields and give ton of might stack (and the update seems like it’s going to bring fury too) for example to the whole group. You can have a guardian who enhances the whole group might stacking too. The necro.. is a class that just tag along with better classes. It can’t stand on its own in any way shape or form.

It takes better players to get the best out of classes like thief, but overall it’s possible to have decent (not fastest) speedruns of most dungeon (and not just the snoozefest that is CoF) with many classes. With a group filled with rangers and necro? good luck.

Taking a necro into your group is like an act of charity at this point.

Forums are always filled with so much wishful thinking.

Nikaido.3457:

No, what this video shows is that CoF is 4 minutes of running.

Whenever I’m in an argument about CoF again, I’m going to shamelessly steal this.

That sentence sums up CoF pretty well…

I too had a necro in fractal but now I rerolled a guardian and I never look back. My main is that necro but she’s just inherently worse. It’s a shame I know. I still use her in casual dungeon runs but in fractal, I’ll definitely bring my guardian. The shouts, the combo, the reflect, the vigor, the cleave, block, etc………necro sadly just can’t do these.

I know necro will get some change in the patch but it won’t change necro’s state in fractal imo. Unless they bring cleave, vigor or reflect to necro. All those life force update is not that helpful.

Just have every class at 80 in a decent set of gear. Then you can play whatever as every class gets buffed/nerfed.

Nikaido.3457:

Nike’s necro can replace one warrior somewhat but that class is a leech.

This is 100% accurate. I love Necro, that’s obvious, but it’s a leech. There is not one trait in the Necro arsenal similar to Empowered Allies that will buff your party. There is not one utility like Banner of Discipline. The only party wide utility that Necros could conceivably offer is the signet that pulls conditions off your whole party… but that skill is bugged (and has been since launch) and doesn’t actually remove conditions. So fail.

Let’s just state the obvious, GW2 high end pve is all about stacking party-wide buffs and debuffs as high as possible to maximize total team dps. Look at the classes with the worst party wide buffs/debuffs (necro, ranger) and you can see exactly what their failing is.

In a thread on some other forum a long time ago I suggested a simple solution to Necros: every trait that says “gain Might/Fury/Retaliation when entering death shroud or attacking in death shroud” should apply those benefits to your whole party or debuffs or all enemies in aoe. Instantly, Necros are useful. Instantly their profession mechanic is interesting and useful to build around.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Nikaido.3457:

Nike’s necro can replace one warrior somewhat but that class is a leech.

This is 100% accurate. I love Necro, that’s obvious, but it’s a leech. There is not one trait in the Necro arsenal similar to Empowered Allies that will buff your party. There is not one utility like Banner of Discipline. The only party wide utility that Necros could conceivably offer is the signet that pulls conditions off your whole party… but that skill is bugged (and has been since launch) and doesn’t actually remove conditions. So fail.

Let’s just state the obvious, GW2 high end pve is all about stacking party-wide buffs and debuffs as high as possible to maximize total team dps. Look at the classes with the worst party wide buffs/debuffs (necro, ranger) and you can see exactly what their failing is.

In a thread on some other forum a long time ago I suggested a simple solution to Necros: every trait that says “gain Might/Fury/Retaliation when entering death shroud or attacking in death shroud” should apply those benefits to your whole party or debuffs or all enemies in aoe. Instantly, Necros are useful. Instantly their profession mechanic is interesting and useful to build around.

Im pretty sure the plague signet works properly now. But its very dangerous when fighting mobs which stack a lot of bleeds. You quickly get 25 stacks pulled on you which really hurts. Necro’s can provide decent aoe debuffs, unfortunately they arent as important as boons. So yeah i agree, if we could apply those DS boons to group aswell then we may actually have a place due to our semi decent survivability and reasonable damage. Just need someone in the group to provide necro with vigor and your pretty safe. But even with those changes necro still isnt gonna be worth it unless debuffs like chill and weakness become far more useful in pve.