pvp revolves greatly around having lots of condi spam and debuffs, that was annoying, dint stop me from reaching legendary
decided to try wvw after a year or two , nothing but necromancer and mesmer zergs
decided to try fractals and what do i get? Enemies critically hit gain random boons
( just think about all of those multi hit attacks and you ll see why this becomes a problem instantly specially when multiple enemies are present )
for kitten’s sake what happened to Options .
one thing is toning down the zerker meta and another is completely replacing it with condition bunkers
95%+ of fractals that get run is still zerker meta
and can be just as succesful with condi builds but this instability makes it Mandatory to not run a smidgen of precision in yoru build and go pure condi
I have never seen a mesmer and necro zerg in wvw?? Condi isn’t anymore meta than zerker, everything has a place. I really dont see what you’re getting at here, we’ve been given the option to use condi as effectively as flat damage, that’s options.
this instability makes it Mandatory to not run a smidgen of precision in yoru build and go pure condi
no, it just makes it harder
plus most condi build have crit anyway (viper and sinister have precision), and it only takes one or two dudes critting for the mobs to get stability and retaliation
The entire party needs to be dire/carrion for you to ignore the instability. I have never seen that happen, and I have all the achievements in the fractal section.
This is getting annoying. Neither in pvp nor in pve we have any kind of ‘condi meta’
Just look at the meta fcs.
Fractals: 0/9 ‘meta’ builds condi
Raids: 3/12 ‘recommended’ builds condi
Spvp: 2/6 ‘meta’ builds condi
Wvw: 0/6 ‘meta’ builds condi
Now I realize metabattle isnt all there is, but this is a pretty clear statement, aint it?
Pvp has a bunker meta, and for pve we have the same zerker love as pre hot.
Execpt some more people run marauders now.
Bit surprised that people use direct damage in fractals. Or is this about sub-40 fractals? After that either protection or high armor benefits condition damage.
This thread is weird…Before people complained there was no diversity whatsoever because in pve and pvp all played power specs because condies were considered to not make enough damages to be viable. Now these two specs can be played altogether or one spec wil be favored to another and vice-versa but we get a thread like that complaining about a condie-meta…..I guess people just hate condies
2015 : sick of zerker meta
2016 : sick of condi meta
God I love these forums <3
And the devs realized the zerker meta isn’t healthy for their own game…They backed themselves into the corner with profession design, and are now trying to design and define roles better.
While conditions and control effects add a certain depth of gameplay, they were also done heavy handed. There are issues in the pvp (wvw and spvp) sides of he game. The devs have discussed separating skills between pve and pvp, but they haven’t done it yet.
High damage plus high crit plus high condition is too much. Direct damage needs to be improved in some areas and balanced down in others. Crit numbers need to be toned down particularly with boons involved. Condition and control skills need to be about strategic use, not just passive spam. DoT damage from conditions needs a tone down.
These two areas are not just “player perception” issues.
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221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
seems narrow. real kittenin narrow. to base something as broad as “we are in a condi meta” on.
i broaden it when i consider the fact that most i see in wvw is necro and mesmer aoe spam
pvp is mostly reliant on who has more necros and mesmers
and now this specific fractals cant be done without boon strip spam and/or condi spam not all condi builds need precision as well so the earlier argument someone made is invalid to some extent as well
I’m happy that we have a diverse DPS meta consisting of both condition- and power-based builds. I remember a day when we begged for the kind of diversity that we now have on these same forums, and I’m very glad we finally got it.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
I’m happy that we have a diverse DPS meta consisting of both condition- and power-based builds. I remember a day when we begged for the kind of diversity that we now have on these same forums, and I’m very glad we finally got it.
condi dps came from the stack cap removal punishing non boon removal players ontop of that is unnecesary
and now this specific fractals cant be done without boon strip spam and/or condi spam
They most certainly can be done without boon strip spam or condi spam. Those things make it much easier, but it’s still more important to know the encounters. I’ve done fractals 1-50 since HoT (many of the 40s in the last few weeks), entirely with PUGs and without any discussion between us about who is running what gear/build (minus warriors making sure they all aren’t running banners). The most I ever did for that instability is camp fire more, instead of dancing in and out of air, and swap out my Signet of Fire/any arcane skills for utilities that were more support or flat damage instead of crits. Even then, most of our enemies ended up covered in boons, regardless. It just took longer and was a little bit tougher, which I assume is the entire point of the instability.
Condi is more viable now for some classes than in the past, and thank god. It’s a breath of fresh air (bad crit ele joke) to have other stats approaching the usefulness that Zerk has had for over 3 years, though Zerk is still meta in pretty much every class for the majority of content.
I’ve seen some thoughtful criticism of condis in PvP regarding the rate at which they can be applied vs cleansed, but that seems like a PvP-specific issue that goes along with the bigger discussion I’ve seen lately of wanting separate game mode skill balancing. Maybe the PvP or WvW forums would be more sympathetic?
Clove Zolan – Bringers of Aggro [Oops] – Blackgate
seems narrow. real kittenin narrow. to base something as broad as “we are in a condi meta” on.
i broaden it when i consider the fact that most i see in wvw is necro and mesmer aoe spam
pvp is mostly reliant on who has more necros and mesmers
and now this specific fractals cant be done without boon strip spam and/or condi spam not all condi builds need precision as well so the earlier argument someone made is invalid to some extent as well
so you post in the dungeon forum about wvw, pvp, and 40s fractals and expect to not be called silly for being ridiculously narrow when categorizing the pve meta?
sorry, i dont get it.
people dont even run 41-50 for anything besides achieves.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
seems narrow. real kittenin narrow. to base something as broad as “we are in a condi meta” on.
i broaden it when i consider the fact that most i see in wvw is necro and mesmer aoe spam
pvp is mostly reliant on who has more necros and mesmers
and now this specific fractals cant be done without boon strip spam and/or condi spam not all condi builds need precision as well so the earlier argument someone made is invalid to some extent as well
so you post in the dungeon forum about wvw, pvp, and 40s fractals and expect to not be called silly for being ridiculously narrow when categorizing the pve meta?
sorry, i dont get it.
people dont even run 41-50 for anything besides achieves.
looking at the Blank Dungeon search bars people Dont Run Anything
so im ridiculous for actually playing the game apparently
and like i said fractals are fine its the No Gain No Pain instability that makes it cheap and overly complicated for no justified reason and forces players to run specific professions with specific builds, good luck vs mai trin or reactor with that instability without top end agony resist and no friends nor guild mates 100% random PUG
Then play your own playing style. Meta builds aren’t for people to just copy and paste. They need to know how to use them. Don’t worry about what other people run.
looking at the Blank Dungeon search bars people Dont Run Anything
so im ridiculous for actually playing the game apparently
and like i said fractals are fine its the No Gain No Pain instability that makes it cheap and overly complicated for no justified reason and forces players to run specific professions with specific builds, good luck vs mai trin or reactor with that instability without top end agony resist and no friends nor guild mates 100% random PUG
Done. Both. Even before the toughness readjust. Full pug, no condi.
And basing your concerns on 10 medium level fractals is really not very meaningful.
Its nice to have a necro for boonstrips, but even that is not mandatory.
They are btw reworking instabilities.
looking at the Blank Dungeon search bars people Dont Run Anything
so im ridiculous for actually playing the game apparently
and like i said fractals are fine its the No Gain No Pain instability that makes it cheap and overly complicated for no justified reason and forces players to run specific professions with specific builds, good luck vs mai trin or reactor with that instability without top end agony resist and no friends nor guild mates 100% random PUG
Done. Both. Even before the toughness readjust. Full pug, no condi.
And basing your concerns on 10 medium level fractals is really not very meaningful.
Its nice to have a necro for boonstrips, but even that is not mandatory.
They are btw reworking instabilities.
yeah i decided to cheese it and run thief and run boon steal on thief, problem solved, and my point further proven
seems narrow. real kittenin narrow. to base something as broad as “we are in a condi meta” on.
i broaden it when i consider the fact that most i see in wvw is necro and mesmer aoe spam
pvp is mostly reliant on who has more necros and mesmers
and now this specific fractals cant be done without boon strip spam and/or condi spam not all condi builds need precision as well so the earlier argument someone made is invalid to some extent as well
so you post in the dungeon forum about wvw, pvp, and 40s fractals and expect to not be called silly for being ridiculously narrow when categorizing the pve meta?
sorry, i dont get it.
people dont even run 41-50 for anything besides achieves.
looking at the Blank Dungeon search bars people Dont Run Anything
so im ridiculous for actually playing the game apparently
and like i said fractals are fine its the No Gain No Pain instability that makes it cheap and overly complicated for no justified reason and forces players to run specific professions with specific builds, good luck vs mai trin or reactor with that instability without top end agony resist and no friends nor guild mates 100% random PUG
the first 50 i did post hot was on a power engi and it was literally easier than the day before the patch in spite of the new lame instability. the only difference is that break bars suddenly became a thing, so luring her into puddles got infinitely more annoying. because i was really good at paying attention to defiance and pulling her. and of course that boring protection just made it take as long as it did the day before.
you can do each 41-50 island in the same time or less as you could before hot, prolly faster now that every pug and their mother has their elite spec. they nerfed the damage we take and they gave us higher dps through power creep.
since the instability itself seems to be your primary issue, yes. its cheap. its lame. it makes the fractal take longer than it should without making it more difficult. it would bring diversity into parties… if there was any incentive to run it, and if the 2(3?) primary boon stripping classes werent already op as kitten, and if it was hard enough to force people to cut the chaff. none of these things are true. good thing theyre changing it tomorrow.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
I hope next is healing meta followed by tank meta and then the cycle can continue back to zerker meta again.
A little savagery now and then is relished by the wisest men.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
There isn’t and hasn’t been a “condi meta” in any game mode since launch, insofar as a majority of condi over power builds. Yet there have been plenty of “power metas” whereby a majority or all top builds have been power-based.
Everyone that regurgitates this “condi meta” line is essentially complaining about equal viability of a condi play-style, because after years of condition builds being supplementary and not priority, they’ve become conditioned to power just being the standard. Hence knee-jerk responses to any significant condi presence in a meta.
there is no equality in condition performance vs power ,power is not even close in damage+ utility that condi offers ontop of that condition builds can run bunker whereas power builds have to give up sustain
95%+ of fractals that get run is still zerker meta
and can be just as succesful with condi builds but this instability makes it Mandatory to not run a smidgen of precision in yoru build and go pure condi
Hahaha, you serious? You do know that precision isn’t just a power related thing? And condi’s don’t just sit there with some defensive stat instead of precision. You must be pretty dumb to even assume that!
To be fair zerk meta called for 3 offensive stats: Power, precision, ferocity. Condis called for 1 (damage) until duration was added. The only glass condi set used to be rampager’s which was secondary. Now there’s sinister and viper’s which technically hybridize. The only thing pure power had over zerk/condis was the ability to damage objects, but if the new fractal changes are indicative that’ll be phased out. And now that there are things only damageable by condis (VG), realistically power and condi should be comparable before auxiliary stats. There has to be a reason beyond “because I like power” to run soldier’s over dire.
A little savagery now and then is relished by the wisest men.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
To be fair zerk meta called for 3 offensive stats: Power, precision, ferocity. Condis called for 1 (damage) until duration was added. The only glass condi set used to be rampager’s which was secondary. Now there’s sinister and viper’s which technically hybridize. The only thing pure power had over zerk/condis was the ability to damage objects, but if the new fractal changes are indicative that’ll be phased out. And now that there are things only damageable by condis (VG), realistically power and condi should be comparable before auxiliary stats. There has to be a reason beyond “because I like power” to run soldier’s over dire.
Yes and there is I just want to hit things and see big numbers not have to micro manage what skills to use to dot the target consistently.
Yes and there is I just want to hit things and see big numbers not have to micro manage what skills to use to dot the target consistently.
I believe that’s called a sustained damage rotation. As far as I know most sustained (non-burst) DPS builds have them.
A little savagery now and then is relished by the wisest men.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
Most groups still have predominantly power, even post 50+.
There is a number of reasons to run a condi build, but the critical strike mistlocks aren’t one of them, since best in slot condi gear still stacks lot of precision, so you still crit off the direct damage components of condi weapon skills.
And to run a condi build, you pay a lot to do that, because it takes longer to kill trash and vets then it does a power build. Running one outside of high level fractals and raids is comes with a heavy downside; it’s very slow, because it takes time to build up condi stacks and reach your optimal dps.
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
