Guild Wars 2

Both sides have their reasons but I want good solid points as to why so many people love to skip content in dungeons. I love the combat in GW2, so I enjoy fighting mobs of things and taking big groups head-on. I also dislike when a party wipes and has to run back from the beginning re-skipping all those enemies again. I have also noticed many of the same people that advocate skipping complain about not getting a precursor. Thoughts?

P.S. I know there are guilds built around not skipping and in LFG you can add “not Skipping” but let’s face it, people don’t read.

Most of the times you are facing elite enemies which take a lot longer to kill than the usual normal enemies on the open world, while still presumably dropping similar loot. By skipping them you save time and get the end reward faster.

No decent loot. Boring. And in some cases there is greater challenge in skipping assuming you dont use a thief. Plus the faster the dungeon is the more satisfying the run is.

There are a few groups of trash that many speedrunners will kill on casual runs. Such as the risen and destroyer trash in CoE. And thats because killing those groups barely slows you down and you get a load of decentish loot for the time.

I main a thief, way fun. So getting the end reward faster so you can what? Skip the next fight? Why get better gear and cooler looking skins just to skip over stuff? I’ve been in two parties that have gotten precursors from mobs that most skip.

Did you read what we said? Skip to get the end rewards faster. Its as simple as that. You make money faster. And the reason people do it is because the reason for killing trash mobs is often not good enough. So its better to just go faster and get the guaranteed rewards.

Precursors arguement doesnt hold up. Thats purely RNG. Some people get precursors from dungeon chests. And its not like we should go clear every mob in a dungeon just for the 0.000001% chance of a precursor. If we wanted to play the RNG game like that then there are better areas to kill constant trash mobs.

Fighting mobs isn’t fun. I too enjoy the game’s combat system. Fighting mobs isn’t where it shines for me. I’d rather spend my time fighting other players who will give me more interesting encounters than mobs will. But going back to dungeons, fighting mobs takes time that doesn’t justify itself in terms of rewards. Makes sense to do more dungeons quickly than less dungeons slowly.

I guess a big point to my question is: Why take this game so seriously? You are playing a video game, it should be relaxing. People seem to treat this like a job, not as a fun activity.

You can have fun while skipping.

Why bother questioning other people’s fun? To me, skipping is fun. It’s like how to disengaging in pvp while being chased by 3 or 4 enemies at once. The thrill is incomparable.

I think it’s the part some skpping is fun to do.

For example the tunnel in AC where there are trap and some scavenger patrolling. It take some skill, probably more so than killing those trash mob to pull it off.

And the thing is people like challenge. Finding more efficient ways to do the content some time become the challenge, so you can keep improving your dungeon clear time.

And some trash mob just isn’t challenge at all. I’m not sure what’s the fun in them. If the difficulty is on par with fotm50 dredge or urban battleground, that can be fun. But as it is, some of those trash dont’ offer any challenge at all.

I dont’ have a problem with killing all the mobs. I played a mmorpg where you have to kill all the monster in the dungeon “in a time constraint” or you won’t get any loot at all. That is challenging.

I think it’s the challenging part that makes dungeon fun. And once a dungeon is beaten, improving your time(or finding better way to do things) become the only challenge in the game.

MHCerberus.1385:

I guess a big point to my question is: Why take this game so seriously? You are playing a video game, it should be relaxing. People seem to treat this like a job, not as a fun activity.

I don’t see it that way at all. Part of the FUN of dungeons is trying to do them efficiently and cleanly. If I wanted to just kill trash, well I could go to any different open world thing and slaughter to my hearts content. But in Dungeons I have an end objective, something I’m trying to accomplish and trying to do that to the best of my ability is what I have fun (though I’ll admit I don’t usually like going too overboard, it stresses me out)

So personally it’s not about the reward at all, but about the feeling of knowing I just totally rocked that objective. Same reason I look for short cuts in racing games, or challenge my own best time on things like the CoD training mode stuff (even if I already knock out the top rank easily). It’s just fun to do your best /shrug.

Stop liking what I don’t like!

MHCerberus.1385:

Why take this game so seriously? You are playing a video game, it should be relaxing. People seem to treat this like a job, not as a fun activity.

Exactly. Killing all the trash mobs, especially when they consist of elites, isn’t fun to me. It’s far more fun to do the skips and get to the meat of the dungeon (the bosses), for me anyway. Heck, even doing the skips can be entertaining sometimes, especially if a funny failure happens.

MHCerberus.1385:

I guess a big point to my question is: Why take this game so seriously? You are playing a video game, it should be relaxing. People seem to treat this like a job, not as a fun activity.

Why are you trying to dictate what is fun and what’s not?

Some people enjoy killing trash mobs, some people don’t.

Don’t listen to all those elitists, they just don’t have the skill to kill the trash mobs, that’s why they’re skipping.

Believe me.

I’ve cleared the room before lupi enough times in groups that had one afk and got bored (mostly when we still cared about getting fast times on lupi and trying stuff) waiting to know that it isn’t particularly interesting to do that, and skipping is in fact a lot more challenging since any fail during a skip can aggro too much in the wrong place and the dude who failed the skip or who’s getting all the backaggro is going for a world of hurt, while actively clearing them allows you to focus fire them quickly a few at a time, which, with the whole group dps, doesn’t make them last for long.

Trash mobs are neither rewarding, nor particularly fun to kill. I also think the vast majority of people who whine about this just don’t have enough experience doing dungeons, and would in fact, get bored very quickly after a few more runs with 100% clears. Certainly I can’t imagine them holding the same ideals after doing 100% clears of P1 and P4 more than a few times. There’s a reason why all attempts at making guilds for “no skip” run failed. People who complain about skipping.. tend to drop the complaining after they’ve gotten enough of it and join the rest of us Borg.

Some trash groups in arah have interesting mechanics, but they just melt too quickly for anyone to notice much. You only notice anything when you fail a skip, not when you actually fight and melt them down in a few seconds.

Skipping in mobs dungeons is the same as skipping mobs in the open world. Next time you’re with the chest train in the Silverwastes, please kill every mob in the way before you open the next chest or else you’re an elitist skipper.

MHCerberus.1385:

robertul, it is players like you that make me cringe. To those that suggested making my own group do you really believe I would be posting here had I not gotten fed up of making group after group only to have them fall apart because some dink decided that skipping is the only way they can play? I can maybe MAYBE get one or two group a month that wont skip, and it usually involves noobs.

Hey MHCerberus! We meet again!
Same thread, 11 months later!
Same problems.
Mo’ skippin’ mo’ problems.

Edit: Here is the revised version of my answer which got deleted. The bolded parts are adjusted to be less infraction-prone!
“Hello there OP. Since you made the same topic 1year ago and you’re obviously busy enough to not care this subject has been beaten to death I’d happily suggest you to don’t worry and keep trying. Go play this amazing game without a worry.”

Even if you like fighting there is no point to fighting elite mobs. There are no interesting mechanics to them and they just have a lot of hp and take time. I rather just speed through it.

There are no direct relationships between skipping mobs and getting a precursor. It is simply RNG.

MHCerberus.1385:

I guess a big point to my question is: Why take this game so seriously? You are playing a video game, it should be relaxing. People seem to treat this like a job, not as a fun activity.

You said it yourself. Why take it so seriously? Some people find skipping relaxing and fun. (btw you are posting on the forums to complain… so who is taking it so seriously, you).

Make your own LFG, people even make guides for the people like you:
How To Make An Anti-Meta Group: Comprehensive Guide To Playing How You Want
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jra3jV_ckYg
Instead of making a lfg ‘’anyone welcome – no stacking’‘, write ’’anyone welcome – no skipping’’. You said you make your lfg and that some ’’dink’’ decides to ruin it? well kick that guy then, not hard. Fed up=taking it too seriously.

Agree with robertul.

And btw. What is the point of this thread? Other than to complain about how others do things? -,-

Same reason to skip in open world, you don’t go out killing everything you see

This is like the 3rd thread OP opens about the same topic.
One thread per year for the past 3 years.
It’s funny cuz he wants people to not skip any mob but also wants good players. And good players do skip.

Really? Are people still using the skipping-is-not-fun argument? Fun is a subjective experience, I don’t see how people fail to understand that. It’s like how I find books boring but someone else enjoys reading them, and that same person considers video games boring but I enjoy them.

Is it that difficult a concept to grasp?

To me skipping feels like going to a movie theater and asking to just see the last ten minutes and chugging your drink. The reason for all the threads is to poll the forum community and watch for changing feelings towards the matter. Avoiding fights and content is now viewed as skillful. Play how you want but at least read LFG postings. I get frustrated when I’m in a party and they all die because they wanted to skip over a mob. We then try over and over to skip instead of simply killing them. I love when Anet makes small changes to dungeons that reward not skipping, example is the bridge area of CoF. Now when you complete that bonus event you clear a safer area to stand while the targets respawn. Question: What makes a more skilled craftsman, completing tasks including small ones or only doing ones required and skipping over little things?
P.S. This put a funny image in my head of Bruce Lee saying don’t skip leg day. lol

Which is actually exactly what I do with movies I’ve seen a bunch of times. I absolutely love V for Vendetta but I rarely feel like watching the whole movie again. I like bits and pieces to watch if I’m eating or doing something else. Same with any movie I like but have watched many times!

Actually a great analogy haha.

Stealth skipping coe Laser is fun. It is a time pressure event. Some one has to do Spire’s job the right way. I RP how I want as thief. Swift as a deer. Quiet as a shadow. Fear cuts deeper than swords. Quick as a snake. Calm as still water.

Saint.5647:

Which is actually exactly what I do with movies I’ve seen a bunch of times. I absolutely love V for Vendetta but I rarely feel like watching the whole movie again. I like bits and pieces to watch if I’m eating or doing something else. Same with any movie I like but have watched many times!

Actually a great analogy haha.

We just differ there, which is fine. I LOVE that movie, but I will watch every second and even recite it. I guess it comes down to patience and preference.

MHCerberus.1385:

Saint.5647:

Which is actually exactly what I do with movies I’ve seen a bunch of times. I absolutely love V for Vendetta but I rarely feel like watching the whole movie again. I like bits and pieces to watch if I’m eating or doing something else. Same with any movie I like but have watched many times!

Actually a great analogy haha.

We just differ there, which is fine. I LOVE that movie, but I will watch every second and even recite it. I guess it comes down to patience and preference.

I should specify that I have watched V for Vendetta more times than I will ever be able to count. Grandma’s Boy is another.

MHCerberus.1385:

To me skipping feels like going to a movie theater and asking to just see the last ten minutes and chugging your drink. The reason for all the threads is to poll the forum community and watch for changing feelings towards the matter. Avoiding fights and content is now viewed as skillful. Play how you want but at least read LFG postings. I get frustrated when I’m in a party and they all die because they wanted to skip over a mob. We then try over and over to skip instead of simply killing them. I love when Anet makes small changes to dungeons that reward not skipping, example is the bridge area of CoF. Now when you complete that bonus event you clear a safer area to stand while the targets respawn. Question: What makes a more skilled craftsman, completing tasks including small ones or only doing ones required and skipping over little things?
P.S. This put a funny image in my head of Bruce Lee saying don’t skip leg day. lol

The bolded part is the operative part of your main argument. To you it might be more fun not to skip. But that is entirely subjective. What constitutes fun is different for many people.

As for your craftsman argument: Every good craftsman will, once they have mastered a certain piece of work, try and speed up the crafting process time. Skipping does the same thing.
And despite how it may feel for you, skipping does not constitute a flaw in completing a dungeon. Just a faster alternative, if done right.
Which adresses the “viewed as skillful”. Because a skip done well is a piece of art in itself as much as any fight. Iris put it right. It can be like a race or a game of tag. Or if you use stealth and can’t gloss over the entire section with a single SR, it’s an infiltrator’s game.
But again here applies the “what is fun” problem. If you prefer to take out the opposition instead of leaving them behind in a cloud of dust or avoid them entirely, then skipping, as you state, is not for you. For others it is fun and a refreshing alternative to bash somethings face in.
Both approaches are equally fine, as long as you have fun doing them.

If anything, complain about people not reading your lfg tags if you advertised “no skipping” and they try it anyway. And guess what? The players who want to do the skips have the very same problem.
Oddly enough they are the ones who receive for hostile reactions for their preferences. Guess you now know in part – because most answers to your perceived problem are fairly civilised – how they probably feel.

Edit(h) says: Bad Typos!

They are called trash mobs, not treasure mobs. In every MMO ever the dungeons and raids have been primarily about the boss fights and trash mobs were either minor challenges or time gates. Sometimes I wonder if this is the first MMO people have ever played.

MHCerberus.1385:

To me skipping feels like going to a movie theater and asking to just see the last ten minutes and chugging your drink. The reason for all the threads is to poll the forum community and watch for changing feelings towards the matter. Avoiding fights and content is now viewed as skillful. Play how you want but at least read LFG postings. I get frustrated when I’m in a party and they all die because they wanted to skip over a mob. We then try over and over to skip instead of simply killing them. I love when Anet makes small changes to dungeons that reward not skipping, example is the bridge area of CoF. Now when you complete that bonus event you clear a safer area to stand while the targets respawn. Question: What makes a more skilled craftsman, completing tasks including small ones or only doing ones required and skipping over little things?
P.S. This put a funny image in my head of Bruce Lee saying don’t skip leg day. lol

You realize you counter your point within your own post right? Skipping isn’t some simple task that always goes perfectly, but you know this.

Skipping is a merging of jumping puzzles and combat. You have to utilize your skills to avoid combat and keep your speed, while deftly running and jumping to the right places. Failure in any little detail could put you in combat, slow you down, and get you dead. It’s as much a precision focused point of play as general combat. Fail a dodge, miss a block, screw up a stealth, don’t blind a deadshot, whatever it is you miss your pattern and you’re dead.

Some skipping of course is easier than others, just like combat. AC is extremely easy combat and skipping, while Arah has a higher skill level requirement on both, and say Harpy Fractal well there you get the real feel of a jumping puzzle (which last time I skipped there I failed HARD… on a livestream… and got called out >.< ).

I will agree that if a group fails at skipping a couple times just killing is usually easier. Stealthing of course makes most skips much much easier but you still have to do that right, and you can do it faster if you do it certain ways.

In the end don’t say that skipping requires no skill just because you don’t like it. If you don’t like it try and form groups that won’t do it, if you can’t, sorry that honestly sucks and I wish you the best in finding people that play how you like to, I know how that goes when you’re playing with people that just do things way differently than how you like and it’s a bit disheartening and takes the fun out of things.

MHCerberus.1385:

I am ashamed to see how many people see skill in this type of gameplay.

Maybe because it takes some skill to execute certain trash runs clean and effectively? That is, having specific knowledge of where to stand, where to go, when to skip with/without stealth, when to blast stealth, how to blast stealth, what utility skills/weapons to swap in for the run etc. and be able to put that knowledge to good use.

MHCerberus.1385:

Ask any good fighter/martial artist how they get better at combat, which is indeed a massive part of GW2. They will tell you train hard and practice often, not “only practice on required days”.

Lel, what if I told you that skipping actually takes practice? I´ve been predominantly running dungeons and fractals with PUGs for more then 2 years now. So the quality of players I play with on a daily basis varies a lot and to me it is very apparent, that the less experienced i.e. less skilled players are typically the ones screwing up more difficult trash runs. Why do you think this is huh?

hybrid.5027:

They are called trash mobs, not treasure mobs. In every MMO ever the dungeons and raids have been primarily about the boss fights and trash mobs were either minor challenges or time gates. Sometimes I wonder if this is the first MMO people have ever played.

Whether it is or not people often put on those nice rose colored glasses when they look back at past games. Personally if we could do half the things I did in my first MMO we’d be looking at like 1min Arah clears.

CM p1 bomb event is also another good example of stealthing as a skillful activity.

Jerus.4350:

hybrid.5027:

They are called trash mobs, not treasure mobs. In every MMO ever the dungeons and raids have been primarily about the boss fights and trash mobs were either minor challenges or time gates. Sometimes I wonder if this is the first MMO people have ever played.

Whether it is or not people often put on those nice rose colored glasses when they look back at past games. Personally if we could do half the things I did in my first MMO we’d be looking at like 1min Arah clears.

Pull together one really big blob of mobs and nuke them to kingdom come?

MHCerberus.1385:

MHCerberus.1385:

Saint.5647:

Which is actually exactly what I do with movies I’ve seen a bunch of times. I absolutely love V for Vendetta but I rarely feel like watching the whole movie again. I like bits and pieces to watch if I’m eating or doing something else. Same with any movie I like but have watched many times!

Actually a great analogy haha.

We just differ there, which is fine. I LOVE that movie, but I will watch every second and even recite it. I guess it comes down to patience and preference.

I should specify that I have watched V for Vendetta more times than I will ever be able to count. Grandma’s Boy is another.

Yep. That’s fine. Just worth looking at different perspectives here. Sometimes it is nice to re-watch a movie in its entirety. Sometimes I like re-watching certain scenes or checking out a certain shot again without the whole movie. I agree that it comes down to preference and how someone choses to appreciate art/media/etc…

I differ on it being a threshold for patience however. That sort of implies that one must 100% watch something the same way every time. I don’t agree with that. I don’t agree that dungeons must be run the same way each time as well.

It’s available as a way for people to find their own enjoyment in what they do.

Silberfisch.3046:

Jerus.4350:

hybrid.5027:

They are called trash mobs, not treasure mobs. In every MMO ever the dungeons and raids have been primarily about the boss fights and trash mobs were either minor challenges or time gates. Sometimes I wonder if this is the first MMO people have ever played.

Whether it is or not people often put on those nice rose colored glasses when they look back at past games. Personally if we could do half the things I did in my first MMO we’d be looking at like 1min Arah clears.

Pull together one really big blob of mobs and nuke them to kingdom come?

Everyone dies except the Rogue/bard (thiefish classes), pulls them to the end (can drag corpses), and you can walk through doors with a simple illusion trick (small size tonic while running into the door, take the buff off and you grow pushing you through), get to the end with the corpses and res them up, and kill.

1 min may be an exaggeration but really it’d be silly fast. Combine that with some other interesting teleporting tricks, like being able to log out and back in and drop through floors sometimes dropping you into boss rooms… yeah.

Ok this would all be unrestricted of course, but still, even without that dragging corpses for skips was part of the game. Teleport tricks just like we have here were normal (we even had a Call of Heroes spell on one class that was an unlimited range portal). Being able to pull mobile bosses to the entrance of zones that didn’t have doors wouldn’t have been using any exploits. Yeah… we broke that game good

EcoRI.9273:

CM p1 bomb event is also another good example of stealthing as a skillful activity.

Thief here, that’s easy.

Skilful stealth is Arah p2 and TA forward. with the condition that you never stop to wait for cooldowns.

OP has done a good job of invalidating every opinion that does not agree with him, so I would not waste my time being invalidated in turn.

When players are reasonable about having a different opinion, I am ok. I was in a party last night and something amazing happened. An ele in my party wanted to just skip everything and stack. To my amazement when his plan failed over and over and many pugs had come and gone, we got to try my way. I really, really tried to make his way work. We stomped through that place like donkey kong on roids. Here’s where it got crazy and he did something I have never had skippers do when they fall flat on their face…he said thank you! I am being very serious when I say in all the time I’ve been playing, that has never happened. I get that you guys don’t agree with me, in fact some of you get downright kitten. But to only have one skipper try your way and actually say thank you when it works would make you a bit kitten like me. The feeling of being above 10kAP and having some pug with >2kAP, meta build, skip, stack, #yolopuglife, say I don’t know how to play while he lays on the dirt dead and I solo the bosses of CoE only to quietly go and rez him afterwards. I have accepted that some players enjoy skipping (cringe), but when will the skipping crowd accept that being able to destroy every enemy in the path quickly requires skill and that enjoying combat in a combat based game is not kittened in the head?

So a meta ele, the glassiest of the glass failed because your team wiped so much that people kept ragequiting over and over? That’s surprising.
Are you sure he thanked you in a genuine way and not just the complimentary “ty” people say at the end of the run?

robertul.3679:

So a meta ele, the glassiest of the glass failed because your team wiped so much that people kept ragequiting over and over? That’s surprising.
Are you sure he thanked you in a genuine way and not just the complimentary “ty” people say at the end of the run?

The best part of it was that he said thank you in a private message. He told me that he didn’t know dungeons could be done that way. I felt all warm n fuzzy. Kitten.

MHCerberus.1385:

but when will the skipping crowd accept that being able to destroy every enemy in the path quickly requires skill and that enjoying combat in a combat based game is not kittened in the head?

We enjoy combat in the game. Boss combat. Bosses have tells and mechanics and don’t die to one auto attack. Fighting trash mobs doesn’t require reacting to tells or dodging. That isn’t a good example of the GW2 combat system. When they fix Lupicus, I suggest you learn to solo him. Once you’ve done an off the wall lupicus solo you can lecture us on what is more fun.

MHCerberus.1385:

Both sides have their reasons

This is invalid. There is no objective reason to waste time on killing mobs, which give no reward.

Reward is also subjective just saying.

EcoRI.9273:

Reward is also subjective just saying.

Are you saying that someone prefers mob loot above the dungeon reward or champion bags? By the time you kill all mobs, you can farm a lot of champ bags at SW. The reward is much much better.

FlawlezZ.3178:

EcoRI.9273:

Reward is also subjective just saying.

Are you saying that someone prefers mob loot above the dungeon reward or champion bags? By the time you kill all mobs, you can farm a lot of champ bags at SW. The reward is much much better.

What if I tell you that some players enjoy the feeling of accomplishment of completely clearing a dungeon? Isn’t that a reward too? No one said that the term reward automatically means stuff that fills your inventory.

That’s why Eco said ‘subjective’.

Reward in the sense of full clear. Reward in the sense of doing things different. Reward in mowing mobs down and feeling like a baws.

hybrid.5027:

MHCerberus.1385:

but when will the skipping crowd accept that being able to destroy every enemy in the path quickly requires skill and that enjoying combat in a combat based game is not kittened in the head?

We enjoy combat in the game. Boss combat. Bosses have tells and mechanics and don’t die to one auto attack. Fighting trash mobs doesn’t require reacting to tells or dodging. That isn’t a good example of the GW2 combat system. When they fix Lupicus, I suggest you learn to solo him. Once you’ve done an off the wall lupicus solo you can lecture us on what is more fun.

So can I lecture you now? I love boss fights, and I love solo’ing bosses. But I get as much enjoyment from clearing a room full of mobs as I do from killing one boss. Honestly, my favorite boss fight to solo is Mai Trin.

FlawlezZ.3178:

EcoRI.9273:

Reward is also subjective just saying.

Are you saying that someone prefers mob loot above the dungeon reward or champion bags? By the time you kill all mobs, you can farm a lot of champ bags at SW. The reward is much much better.

It’s not all about the loot mang. Although I did get a nice exotic shield skin from a mob in fractals last night, only good drop.

You know what’s fun? Making all the mobs in Arah port to the start of the dungeon. Let’s see you try to skip now, filthy elitists!