Guild Wars 2

I’ve recently gotten in to the habit of running dungeons. And when I first started to do them, I got lucky and ran with a few people by chance that hadn’t done the dungeon either. We learned everything together, and fought our way through.
I’m now farming Twilight Arbor so I can get the Twilight set. Which means I would like to get it done relatively fast, however; I still find that skipping enemies ruins the experience whether I want to get it done fast or not. I seriously wish that people would take the 1 – 2 extra minutes to clear an area instead of rushing through and about 75% of the time losing a minimum of one person on the way and having to wait until they can respawn and catch up.
I haven’t been running dungeons for a very long time, so I can understand how ones attitude towards fighting enemies might change. Still, it would seem to me that fighting them instead of just fleeing, takes a lot less time and slightly more effort. If myself and a group of pugs can do it I’m certain that veterans can.

Just trying to promote doing dungeons as they were intended. Pulling and stacking may not have been exactly what ANet had in mind but it works and I don’t mind doing it if it needs to be done. But running by enemies completely sucks the fun out of it. And I’d rather spend an extra few minutes having fun than a few less feeling like autoattacking has a lot to be desired.

Generally if everyone is experienced then running should not be an issue. The only two running sequences people would have issues with is the one on the spider path to the boss in the egg sac room (Vevina of Feyona; I just can’t remember). The other is the long run after the 6 NPC’s in the force field room where you essentially run to outside the final boss chamber.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

it would seem to me that fighting them instead of just fleeing, takes a lot less time and slightly more effort

It takes more time to fight the mobs than to run past them.

Try it vs any mob.
a. Time yourself killing it
b. Time yourself running past it

Now Compare the two times, and it should be easy to see which takes less time.

Personally I like to complete dungeons as fast as possible because the rewards don’t scale based on time spent in the dungeon. Hope this helps

Play how you want. -Anet

How about:
a) Looking in the forum if a thread like yours already exists? It’s not like there arent already 20+posts regarding this stuff
b) Read these posts and look what people advise you to do there? For example search a group that likes to clear parts of the trash aswell.
c) If you still have something left to tell the public post it there instead of opening thread No. 30102 regarding skipping or any other bull

Ayrilana.1396:

Generally if everyone is experienced then running should not be an issue. The only two running sequences people would have issues with is the one on the spider path to the boss in the egg sac room (Vevina of Feyona; I just can’t remember). The other is the long run after the 6 NPC’s in the force field room where you essentially run to outside the final boss chamber.

It’s true that I haven’t been doing dungeons for long, but in the last few days I have, I’ve found that even experienced players are dying when skipping enemies. Although achievement points aren’t necessarily a great way to determine ones skill, I always hover my mouse over peoples character windows to see how many achiev points they have. And whether new or old people die a lot when skipping.

Agony.3542:

How about:
a) Looking in the forum if a thread like yours already exists? It’s not like there arent already 20+posts regarding this stuff
b) Read these posts and look what people advise you to do there? For example search a group that likes to clear parts of the trash aswell.
c) If you still have something left to tell the public post it there instead of opening thread No. 30102 regarding skipping or any other bull

And you have just posted angry comment No. 43104. Why take the time to respond if it bothers you so much? Or even read it? If it bothers you so much, create a post about how you dislike the volume of threads that appear regarding dungeon mechanics. See how much love you get.

High achievement points doesn’t mean anything. They only had to do each path on e to get Dungeon Master and could have farmed CoF path 1 for the other 200 AP. There’s a large percentage of players that do not know how to use basic skills such as dodging or to read enemies’ telegraphed attacks. There are players who do not swap out weapons, traits, and/or utilities based on the situation.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Just trying to promote doing dungeons as they were intended.

The way you see something does not mean it is the way it was intended.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I seriously wish that people would take the 1 – 2 extra minutes to clear an area instead of rushing through and about 75% of the time losing a minimum of one person on the way and having to wait until they can respawn and catch up.

Its more like 10mins min, with a decent group you’ll also be looking at multiple wipes if you actually decide to fight the mobs. In the case of the run after the Malrona boss, you’ll be looking at multiple spider mobs all with paralysis, in which stability/stun-break doesn’t help at all. In the case of the huge run in fwd path, all mobs have a Knight with devestating KD attks. You will see an example of this in the compulsory mob all groups r expected to clear before engaging Leurent, if u ever fight the Knight dude on open ground without stacking at all can expect at least 1 person downed. So no, you will actually waste more time if u decide to fight all the trash mobs that anet probably intended u to skip anyway. I would rather take 1-2 dead and probly a rage-quit than clearing the mobs and having the entire group wipe countless times as well as the run taking 2x as long. btw, a friendly tip you dont have to wait for every single member before a boss encounter. If the majority of your group makes it and the others cant run it on their own, your not obligated to wait for them..you can go ahead with it and clear a new WP for them to spawn at. I’ve beat Fyonna easily with 2-3 others. You dont need full group for everything, just makes it a little faster (and easier).

So what is this thread really for..? other than promoting those idiot pugs that ask me to stack so they can clear the hounds at the start of TA. Not a fan, by the way.

i ask when i join if people skip or kill. If they skip, i leave.

Maybe we should form a coalition of dungeon/Fractal players who prefer to kill rather than skip?

I generally prefer to kill enemies rather than skip them, for the following two reasons:

1. More chances for loot! Why let your MF% go to waste? I once got the Hunter off some random mob in AC Story; who knows what loot that spiderling or bandit or dredge you’re running past is carrying?

2. Skipping IS faster, but only if everybody knows what to do AND doesn’t screw up. And there’s usually always one guy who falls at the final Jade Maw jump, falls behind the stealth train in CM etc. and now they have problems catching up to the rest of the group, who has to wait for him. This often ends up taking MORE time than it would to just clear the enemies out, and then everybody can move to the next section in safety.

Now, there ARE places where it makes more sense to skip than fight. Sureshot Seamus in CM P1 is a good example; he doesn’t give any loot or XP when you beat him, so why waste time fighting him? (Unless someone is doing the path for the first time and wants to see the cutscene, then I’ll fight.) Anywhere where enemies do not give loot/XP is a candidate for skipping, but again, if clearing out the path makes it easier for the party as a whole to get through, why not kill them?

Whats up with these threads today

• Not sure why everyone seems to think Anet intends for you to kill all mobs. If Anet didn’t want you to skip, they would prevent you from passing to the next part without having killed everyone. But they don’t, so you have to assume they are giving you a choice. Those who like to skip can skip, those who don’t, don’t — isn’t it better to have a choice?

• If everyone in your group knows what they’re doing, skipping should be smooth with no downs. In fact, it’s pretty fun learning how to skip most efficiently on your own without watching guides.

Do what I do when I feel like fighting Kholer, include it in the lfg description. Something along the lines of “no skipping enemies” and “not a speed run”. It may take longer to find like minded people, but once you do, you may enjoy it better.

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe we should form a coalition of dungeon/Fractal players who prefer to kill rather than skip?

Funny enough, someone did try to make a guild that did that (I think they called it Kill All Things [KAT] or something), and invited all the people who wanted to run dungeons without skips. When last I heard, they said that it was a complete failure.

However, despite this, I would say that if you really want to do dungeons without skips, finding a guild/group of like minded individuals is probably the best way. The second best way is to make sure your lfg description states your intention to kill everything very specifically.

Skipping is intended…
Stacking….well sorta but for sure less intended than skipping.

If you dislike skipping play fractals

I doubt skipping and stacking is intended.
I wish there was a button where all stuff was handed out for free so players like me could enjoy doing dungeons.

Skipping is intended. There are areas that obviously are intended as gauntlet areas. You aren’t supposed to really fight back in a gauntlet. There are also “bonus events” that are also meant to give players a skip or fight option. Stacking might not specifically be intended, but it a result of the code they made making too many reason to. Boons, con removal, revives, combos, cleaves, enemy AI…. list goes on an on for reasons to stack up.

Pleurodesed.7625:

I doubt skipping and stacking is intended.
I wish there was a button where all stuff was handed out for free so players like me could enjoy doing dungeons.

Devs stated it so many times .-.

Some skip are extremely fun also…ex Sorrow embrace 3
Others are almost forced by design ex COF2/arah
Others are an option exactly designed to make players decide if fighting or not like kohler in AC…

Some are exploit and not intended …..but that is another thing.

Stacking is instead the result of totally lack of balance effort in PvE…..and we have no alternative until they will balance PvE properly or just stop the necessity to farm gold.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe we should form a coalition of dungeon/Fractal players who prefer to kill rather than skip?

Funny enough, someone did try to make a guild that did that (I think they called it Kill All Things [KAT] or something), and invited all the people who wanted to run dungeons without skips. When last I heard, they said that it was a complete failure.

However, despite this, I would say that if you really want to do dungeons without skips, finding a guild/group of like minded individuals is probably the best way. The second best way is to make sure your lfg description states your intention to kill everything very specifically.

That’s a shame, although there’s a large number of reasons why it might have failed. Different timezones, different players wanting to do different dungeons/Fractals, or players just wanting to do other stuff like WvW/mapping/RP what-have-you. Not to mention that with guilds that are formed for a specific purpose, you won’t get 100% representation as people generally prefer to hang out with their friends. (I only rep TTS during Tequatl events, for instance.)

I do put up ads for killing runs sometimes though. “LFM Fractals Level 9 Slayerthon! Put down your skipping tools, pick up your killing tools!”

You can t skip much in fotm anyway…

DigitalKirin.9714:

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe we should form a coalition of dungeon/Fractal players who prefer to kill rather than skip?

Funny enough, someone did try to make a guild that did that (I think they called it Kill All Things [KAT] or something), and invited all the people who wanted to run dungeons without skips. When last I heard, they said that it was a complete failure.

However, despite this, I would say that if you really want to do dungeons without skips, finding a guild/group of like minded individuals is probably the best way. The second best way is to make sure your lfg description states your intention to kill everything very specifically.

I created that guild and after several months, only few souls joined and couple of them are my friends who didn’t want me to feel lonely.
Nikaido told me it is the failure at the start because incompetent players couldn’t skip so they said killing the mobs is easier.
For me, I don’t give a freaking care one way or another, I could do both easily w/ any dungeon, but I have to say, those who couldn’t skip don’t know their class very well..

i run 40+ fractals every day
almost every day i get dredge
knowing that i gonna sit at mandatory clown car killing same mob over and over again for least 15+ min i might as well try to skip all other trash

SkyChef.5432:

I created that guild
[…]
those who couldn’t skip don’t know their class very well..

Your thread made that clear when you said the guild was just meant to not skip anything but that exploiting/glitching bosses was acceptable.

I know it’s a very old thread, so not judging you based on it, just thought it expressed well that not being able to skip usually shows lack of class or dungeon knowledge.

Upham.6137:

SkyChef.5432:

I created that guild
[…]
those who couldn’t skip don’t know their class very well..

Your thread made that clear when you said the guild was just meant to not skip anything but that exploiting/glitching bosses was acceptable.

I know it’s a very old thread, so not judging you based on it, just thought it expressed well that not being able to skip usually shows lack of class or dungeon knowledge.

I think you read more than what it was there. There is no definitive wordings of mine saying it’s acceptable or not acceptable.

This is a Kill-All-Things Guild, not Kill-All-Things-Exploited or Kill-All-Things-Non Exploited. Whatever they want to do in any circumstances is their choice. I have no saying whatsoever.
You have all the right to play the game you want to play. So do others. When the 2 strong opinions collide head on, either you will leave the party in the mid of the run in disgust or they will kick you. And that’s what something I don’t like to see.

You’re saying it’s acceptable with that entire post.

It’s not acceptable if the party decided it’s not acceptable. And If I’m in that party, it’s not acceptable. Or I leave.
And vice versa.

And this is regarding the guild, not individual parties.

Ah, I see your point.
I didn’t really consider that as a guild as much as a place holder for players to find each others. So that’s more in line of my thinking of parties than a guild.
As a matter of fact, I have no faith in what’s considered exploiting whether it came from Anet or anyone else. Subjective interpretation or release for public consumption.
The only thing I would object is if the player using the exploits to evade the contents when they lack the skills to do it otherwise. Like using the boat in P2 when they couldn’t skip the normal way alone. Or you show me you can solo Lupi, you can skip.
Having skill, do whatever. No skill, don’t exploit.

Well what you said is that the guild had nothing against exploiting, just against skipping.

And I understand it really, I remember being in CoE runs where parties would kill everything but then stack behind boxes and range to avoid activating Alpha which took way longer than killing him in melee range, but they couldn’t do that (at least not without ress rushing) just like they couldn’t skip a lot of mobs.

People always give an explanation why they are against this or against that. That explanation is for the public consumption and it makes them feel good, but the true fact is they are not good at it, in term of skills. If you can skip/kill all by yourself, a testament of your skill, there isn’t any thing left to debate whether you do it one way or another.

BTW, it’s actually a test to see how many vocalized people against skipping would join the guild, because it was originated from a complain thread against skipping like this one. I specifically said I would not join a run (why would anyone created a guild but decline to run w/ them?) and it was just a service for the community. Didn’t expect many to join and it’s exactly so. The people who joined are lurkers and 2 friends. And at that time, our Arah guild was running full speed, and no one in the right mind would try to kill everything in Arah then & now, except when boring and want to see how long it takes. And once you could do Arah all paths relatively easy, CoE difficulty is way many levels lower.

I’m personal not a regular in alot of dungeons so it always kitten es me off when suddenly everyone makes a bolt for it without a word and then gets mad at me because I didn’t know and kicks me. I say make all mobs unpassible and if people have an issue with it all I got for you is "go join the champion trains if your only there for the money.

You can make KAT2 or start yourself an instance like this “Path 2, no skipping. Kill everything inside”.
Is that hard to do?

If skipping mobs wasn’t intended, mobs would never lose aggro and follow you until they’re dead.

Arenanet has the capacity to change the behaviour of mob aggro, and they have done so.

Remember when stealth used to completely break all aggro? Now it doesn’t.

So skipping is intended, for skilled players.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

I’m personal not a regular in alot of dungeons so it always kitten es me off when suddenly everyone makes a bolt for it without a word and then gets mad at me because I didn’t know and kicks me. I say make all mobs unpassible and if people have an issue with it all I got for you is "go join the champion trains if your only there for the money.

Hello! As a non regular, perhaps it would be a good idea to state that you don’t know exactly where the skips are before the run starts. So long as you didn’t join a run that specifically stated Speedrun, chances are good that you’ll have someone willing to let you know when/where the skips are.

Best of luck!

PowerCat.5738:

If skipping mobs wasn’t intended, mobs would never lose aggro and follow you until they’re dead.

Arenanet has the capacity to change the behaviour of mob aggro, and they have done so.

Remember when stealth used to completely break all aggro? Now it doesn’t.

So skipping is intended, for skilled players.

Funny, it certainly feels like the Bandits in CM never lose aggro no matter how far I run. XD

nagr.1593:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I seriously wish that people would take the 1 – 2 extra minutes to clear an area instead of rushing through and about 75% of the time losing a minimum of one person on the way and having to wait until they can respawn and catch up.

Its more like 10mins min, with a decent group you’ll also be looking at multiple wipes if you actually decide to fight the mobs. In the case of the run after the Malrona boss, you’ll be looking at multiple spider mobs all with paralysis, in which stability/stun-break doesn’t help at all. In the case of the huge run in fwd path, all mobs have a Knight with devestating KD attks. You will see an example of this in the compulsory mob all groups r expected to clear before engaging Leurent, if u ever fight the Knight dude on open ground without stacking at all can expect at least 1 person downed. So no, you will actually waste more time if u decide to fight all the trash mobs that anet probably intended u to skip anyway. I would rather take 1-2 dead and probly a rage-quit than clearing the mobs and having the entire group wipe countless times as well as the run taking 2x as long. btw, a friendly tip you dont have to wait for every single member before a boss encounter. If the majority of your group makes it and the others cant run it on their own, your not obligated to wait for them..you can go ahead with it and clear a new WP for them to spawn at. I’ve beat Fyonna easily with 2-3 others. You dont need full group for everything, just makes it a little faster (and easier).

So what is this thread really for..? other than promoting those idiot pugs that ask me to stack so they can clear the hounds at the start of TA. Not a fan, by the way.

I can’t agree better. I’ve been with a casual pug group and an experienced group back to back. The casual group could neither skip or clear mobs either. The duration was upward 2 hours, so horrible! With the experienced group, they even know how to carry the whole party to skip and that was a pleasant 20 minute dungeon run (no zerker).

PowerCat.5738:

If skipping mobs wasn’t intended, mobs would never lose aggro and follow you until they’re dead.

Arenanet has the capacity to change the behaviour of mob aggro, and they have done so.

Remember when stealth used to completely break all aggro? Now it doesn’t.

So skipping is intended, for skilled players.

Or it’s because Anet doesn’t want to deal with the mountain of backlash, whining, complaining, and god knows what ever else this community would throw at them if they removed all leashes from Mobs in the dungeons.

I’m pretty sure skipping mobs in the style that’s done in dungeons today was never intended. But it’s become so ingrained into people’s heads that they can’t actually remove it without an epic amount of backlash.

Why do you think the dungeons that have been added in Living Story events are done in a way that doesn’t allow you to skip trash? Anet knows that there’s no salvaging what’s happened to the dungeons in the game now, and are focusing their efforts instead on future dungeons, where skipping isn’t possible.

Of course, I still wouldn’t hold it past Anet to go back and remove the leashing from mobs in the dungeons at some point in 2014 if they ever get around to overhauling all the dungeons, but we’ll see.

Either way, Skipping as we do today was never intended by Anet, they just know that there’s no fixing the problem at this point in the game’s life, which really is a shame.

While I’m not a fan of skipping either, I just want to point out that leashing enemies is also important, because otherwise you could create situations where players just drag enemies, even bosses, to locations where the enemy gets stuck or is unable to use their special mechanics, thus rendering them extremely easy to beat. Simplest example: Boss uses only melee attacks. Party lures boss to a room with pillars. Everybody jumps on a pillar and ranges the boss in complete safety.

Having enemies remain in a more or less fixed location also prevents bugs where players can’t progress because a boss didn’t die where it was supposed to.

From the player’s perspective, having enemies leash back also allows players to retreat from bad situations. If enemies never leashed, then basically every fight is a Victory or Death situation; if you make any mistakes, or underestimated the enemy group, or even just got surprised by a patrol, then everybody’s wiping since enemies will chase you to the ends of Tyria. I think that would just create more player frustration.

I’d rather encourage players to fight via a combination of rewards (“The more enemies you kill, the better the end chest rewards will be!”) and gating (“The door to the next zone will remain closed until all enemies in the previous room are dead.” or “You need a key to open the door. One random enemy in the room has it. Go forth and slaughter!”)

There was one upside to tanking in other MMOs. The group would follow the tank, no matter what, because he/she is usually sets the pace of the dungeon. I never skipped bosses as a tank, and so i would always set the pace of the dungeon run, but i can’t do this in GW2.

Yeah tanking is fun. Mobs in Rift never leash, they follow you until death.