Guild Wars 2

sigh… forum bug

Seera.5916:

I recall posts on the forum requesting raids prior to HoT’s announcement.

Prior to, when pretty much everything was dropped by Anet already. When game was released and dungeons was alive, all raid posts were usually met with “go back to WoW”.

Seera.5916:

And correlation doesn’t mean causation. Just because revenue is down post HoT lwunh, doesn’t mean it’s because HoT added raids.

It does mean that raids in their current implementation does not help to retain revenues.

Rednik.3809:

It does mean that raids in their current implementation does not help to retain revenues.

No…it means that the entire game of gw2 has made less revenue than it did previously.

There is absolutely no evidence that any one particular aspect of the game was directly related to this revenue loss. It is equally as likely (and could even be more?) that the revenue loss is from poor WvW support, HoT maps too hard at launch, 4 seasons of bad PvP structure, poor class balance at HoT launch, etc.

Only in the raiding subforum to people explicity blame raids for this…even though there is no evidence to support it.

Please stop with this. The game made less money. The…Entire…Game. Not one specific part of it.

ButterPeanut.9746:

No…it means that the entire game of gw2 has made less revenue than it did previously.

There is absolutely no evidence that any one particular aspect of the game was directly related to this revenue loss. It is equally as likely (and could even be more?) that the revenue loss is from poor WvW support, HoT maps too hard at launch, 4 seasons of bad PvP structure, poor class balance at HoT launch, etc.

Only in the raiding subforum to people explicity blame raids for this…even though there is no evidence to support it.

Please stop with this. The game made less money. The…Entire…Game. Not one specific part of it.

The entire game without that specific part was making more money before. The entire game with with specific part being pushed as only valuable endgame (recent nerfs to fractal ascended drops says hello, lack of updates in comparison with raids says konichiwa) for a wast majority (because PvE players are wast majority) is making less money than previous game version during its worst days. So… something is clearly wrong, right?

You don’t seem to get causality vs correlation. There were tons of chnages to the game with HOT. There is no reason for you to know which change was responsible for what. How can you be so sure it wasn’t mastery grind that turned players off? Or difficulty in getting new elite specs? You can’t so you default to your old grinding axe
It’s getting old you dont like raids you hate the game. We all get it.

Rednik.3809:

The entire game without that specific part was making more money before.

Maybe you should look at the root of the problem then. Hint: it’s not Raids

This is rather old:

“To talk about the Guild Wars 2 performance, it is weaker than what we have expected." According to Ncsoft the reason lies in the conversion from play for free to the paid expansion. This conversion rate is not as high as expected/hoped by NCsoft. The amount of gem sales and item sales versus active players is ok. “ but it is more the issue of the conversion to the paid expansion pack that we have not seen the level (of sales) we have hoped”
To address the issue there are two strategies, that Ncsoft is currently trying to look at:
First strategy is to induce more conversions. They try to tdentify what is hindering the people from converting over. They try to address this with events or maybe ingame systems.
The second strategy is a look at the expansion. What was there at launch and what were the expectations of the users? They identified a gap there. They will review the content updtes and their frequency.

Back from Q4 2015

Something that many who post about the quarter reports fail to understand is that with Heart of Thorns the game became free to play which means it lost the game sales. If we believe the NCSoft report which is rather clear, the gem sales are stable, the difference between the revenue now and what it was before is the loss of box SALES.

It has nothing to do with Raids, or how difficult Heart of Thorns is, or how slow the release of new content is. It’s all about failing to convert free players and old players into paying customers, which means the problem is at the EARLY game.

Rednik.3809:

ButterPeanut.9746:

No…it means that the entire game of gw2 has made less revenue than it did previously.

There is absolutely no evidence that any one particular aspect of the game was directly related to this revenue loss. It is equally as likely (and could even be more?) that the revenue loss is from poor WvW support, HoT maps too hard at launch, 4 seasons of bad PvP structure, poor class balance at HoT launch, etc.

Only in the raiding subforum to people explicity blame raids for this…even though there is no evidence to support it.

Please stop with this. The game made less money. The…Entire…Game. Not one specific part of it.

The entire game without that specific part was making more money before. The entire game with with specific part being pushed as only valuable endgame (recent nerfs to fractal ascended drops says hello, lack of updates in comparison with raids says konichiwa) for a wast majority (because PvE players are wast majority) is making less money than previous game version during its worst days. So… something is clearly wrong, right?

Yea, you. There were no nerfs to fractal ascended drops. In fact the changes have made them more common than ever, because you get more chest than before with the same loot table. And raids has an update maybe every 2-5 months outside of bug fixes.

Rednik.3809:

ButterPeanut.9746:

No…it means that the entire game of gw2 has made less revenue than it did previously.

There is absolutely no evidence that any one particular aspect of the game was directly related to this revenue loss. It is equally as likely (and could even be more?) that the revenue loss is from poor WvW support, HoT maps too hard at launch, 4 seasons of bad PvP structure, poor class balance at HoT launch, etc.

Only in the raiding subforum to people explicity blame raids for this…even though there is no evidence to support it.

Please stop with this. The game made less money. The…Entire…Game. Not one specific part of it.

The entire game without that specific part was making more money before. The entire game with with specific part being pushed as only valuable endgame (recent nerfs to fractal ascended drops says hello, lack of updates in comparison with raids says konichiwa) for a wast majority (because PvE players are wast majority) is making less money than previous game version during its worst days. So… something is clearly wrong, right?

Like other said. What about masteries? What about the new WvW map? What about elite specializations? What about changes to fractal scaling to 100? What about the new legendary weapons (or lack there of)? What about a short HoT story? These are all new things that came with HoT.

I dislike story, WvW, and legendary weapon grinds but don’t spew false accusations that a single one of them is the sole reason for the revenue loss in the game. Your dislike for raiding is a personal vendetta and nothing more. There is no fact behind any of it.

Nobody will ever know for sure, but I’m VERY confident in saying that the exact same HoT game except no raids would result in far worse earning reports than we currently have.

maddoctor.2738:

Back from Q4 2015

Something that many who post about the quarter reports fail to understand is that with Heart of Thorns the game became free to play which means it lost the game sales. If we believe the NCSoft report which is rather clear, the gem sales are stable, the difference between the revenue now and what it was before is the loss of box SALES.

It has nothing to do with Raids, or how difficult Heart of Thorns is, or how slow the release of new content is. It’s all about failing to convert free players and old players into paying customers, which means the problem is at the EARLY game.

Thing is – right now their revenue is lower than one before HoT, so that means that old gem sales was larger than current ones, because now they have gems+paid expansion, and still showing lower results. That means that their customers who were used to buy gems are leaving, and new ones are not compensating it. They are losing their old playerbase, and that means that they did something very wrong and people are disappointed.

ButterPeanut.9746:

Like other said. What about masteries? What about the new WvW map? What about elite specializations? What about changes to fractal scaling to 100? What about the new legendary weapons (or lack there of)? What about a short HoT story? These are all new things that came with HoT.

I dislike story, WvW, and legendary weapon grinds but don’t spew false accusations that a single one of them is the sole reason for the revenue loss in the game. Your dislike for raiding is a personal vendetta and nothing more. There is no fact behind any of it.

Nobody will ever know for sure, but I’m VERY confident in saying that the exact same HoT game except no raids would result in far worse earning reports than we currently have.

Sure, and you are probably right. But what about “exact same HoT” with better implemented and more popular raids? Or “exact same HoT” with a lots of new dungeons instead of them? Or fractals? Or both?
It’s not about finding a scapegoat, it’s about finding what can be done to compensate it. That constant uproar on these forums and on reddit, it’s not came from nowhere. People are disappointed and people are asking for improvements, so they could find something to enjoy. But for now, there literally “haha too bad for you, git gud” from the raid team, and “we are working hard on fractals, they are our priority” from other Anet representatives, and then… raids are getting more content while fractals are getting crafting tokens.
And they are probably thinking that this will somehow improve situation. Some miracle maybe, I don’t know.

Rednik.3809:

ButterPeanut.9746:

No…it means that the entire game of gw2 has made less revenue than it did previously.

There is absolutely no evidence that any one particular aspect of the game was directly related to this revenue loss. It is equally as likely (and could even be more?) that the revenue loss is from poor WvW support, HoT maps too hard at launch, 4 seasons of bad PvP structure, poor class balance at HoT launch, etc.

Only in the raiding subforum to people explicity blame raids for this…even though there is no evidence to support it.

Please stop with this. The game made less money. The…Entire…Game. Not one specific part of it.

The entire game without that specific part was making more money before. The entire game with with specific part being pushed as only valuable endgame (recent nerfs to fractal ascended drops says hello, lack of updates in comparison with raids says konichiwa) for a wast majority (because PvE players are wast majority) is making less money than previous game version during its worst days. So… something is clearly wrong, right?

Holidays came right after HoT launched so maybe the drop in sales is due to people having to repay debt due to Christmas purchases and not having as much as money to spend on entertainment.

Also, with medical insurance, high deductible plans are more common this year than last year. Maybe more people have a lower entertainment budget, because their medical bills are higher at the beginning of the year due to deductibles having been met.

The reason for the drop in sales may not be caused by the game primarily. Real life factors into this as well. It’s not like GW2 is food, shelter, or any other necessity for life.

None of us have any proof of causation. We just have enough for correlation.

I’m just curious how many people here have a business degree, or have taken any sort of classes in business. Because everyone here wants to talk about things like sales figures but I bet the majority of you would have no idea how to read a balance sheet. And I’m sure if you opened up any major companies annual reports you would be completely lost reading it.

Coconut.7082:

Having full exotics does make quite a difference, Ascended weapons + Trinkets are easy to get (LS3 maps, Achievements, Fractals, Drops), give you a bigger stat bonus than Armor, and are a minimum to start raiding IMO.
It’s not that you can’t do it in exotics, just having the above shows a basic level of commitment.

It’s not as hard as you put it, those who feel “naturally excluded” are the ones to set the entry bar higher than it really is.
You can always even start your own group.

Having multiple classes is a bonus, but not a must, as long as you have one properly geared/built class that fits the group’s requirement.

Raids are suppose to be challenging end game content, so they are not targeted towards players who just joined the game (if you are that new, I would suggest starting in Dungeons or Fractals before advancing to Raids).

Also, there are plenty of training runs & dedicated guild for beginner raiding, just look them up on the forum/reddit.

Most of the power is in the ascended weapons. The armor is a marginal gain for a massive gold sink.

So the OP can start with getting ascended weapons.

For reference, even high level guilds like LOD take in trials with exotic armor. I’m sure there are other guilds who do the same.

The content can easily be beat in full exotics.

Rednik.3809:

.
Thing is – right now their revenue is lower than one before HoT, so that means that old gem sales was larger than current ones, because now they have gems+paid expansion, and still showing lower results. That means that their customers who were used to buy gems are leaving, and new ones are not compensating it. They are losing their old playerbase, and that means that they did something very wrong and people are disappointed.

You missed the most important part:

The amount of gem sales and item sales versus active players is ok. “ but it is more the issue of the conversion to the paid expansion pack that we have not seen the level (of sales) we have hoped”

There is no problem with gem sales. The problem is with box sales, either old players aren’t converting or free 2 play players aren’t converting. And the majority of players doesn’t visit forums, nor gaming websites, to get their news, in other words they don’t know about the difficulty of the expansion, or the difficulty of Raids. Something that they don’t know about cannot possibly be a reason for the decline in revenue, this means the problem is elsewhere.

Zenith.7301:

Coconut.7082:

Having full exotics does make quite a difference, Ascended weapons + Trinkets are easy to get (LS3 maps, Achievements, Fractals, Drops), give you a bigger stat bonus than Armor, and are a minimum to start raiding IMO.
It’s not that you can’t do it in exotics, just having the above shows a basic level of commitment.

It’s not as hard as you put it, those who feel “naturally excluded” are the ones to set the entry bar higher than it really is.
You can always even start your own group.

Having multiple classes is a bonus, but not a must, as long as you have one properly geared/built class that fits the group’s requirement.

Raids are suppose to be challenging end game content, so they are not targeted towards players who just joined the game (if you are that new, I would suggest starting in Dungeons or Fractals before advancing to Raids).

Also, there are plenty of training runs & dedicated guild for beginner raiding, just look them up on the forum/reddit.

Most of the power is in the ascended weapons. The armor is a marginal gain for a massive gold sink.

So the OP can start with getting ascended weapons.

For reference, even high level guilds like LOD take in trials with exotic armor. I’m sure there are other guilds who do the same.

The content can easily be beat in full exotics.

That’s what I meant, armor can be exotic, but there’s no reason to not get Ascended weapons & trinkets.

I highly doubt that LOD takes trialees with exotic armor, you might be mistaken with players they take for practice runs?

Rednik.3809:

Seera.5916:

I recall posts on the forum requesting raids prior to HoT’s announcement.

Prior to, when pretty much everything was dropped by Anet already. When game was released and dungeons was alive, all raid posts were usually met with “go back to WoW”.

Seera.5916:

And correlation doesn’t mean causation. Just because revenue is down post HoT lwunh, doesn’t mean it’s because HoT added raids.

It does mean that raids in their current implementation does not help to retain revenues.

I agree, the number of recorded threats of or conspiracy to murder has only gone up since the 1960s in England and Wales, therefore the social revolution of the 60s has not helped prevent this at all! Some may even say it made things worse as numbers start showing a marked increase from then on!

See, 79% of people can make up BS statistical claims too.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/historical-crime-data