Guild Wars 2

Excisidium.1723:

Obvious troll is obvious.

(Going to double post here)

So what you’re saying is that ANet should hotfix absolutely everything that can bring in money. I was grinding 4g per hour with the Arah farm playing the game. But people playing the Trading Post can make 100g+ sitting in LA. Yup, that’s fair.

Also, name those 4-5 spots where you farm. If you don’t, people will call bull on you. Like I am right now.

How is repeatedly farming the first boss of a dungeon intended? Especially when you can reach that first boss without pulling any trash at all. Compounded by the fact that this path was heavily abused before for farming shards. Lastly, on top of all this, they actually made dungeon bosses worthwhile to defeat and immediately they’re being abused.

None of this seems like ArenaNet’s fault. That solely falls on abusive players.

To your comments, I just said that I know of several 3-5g/hr spots, which I’m sure Robert and crew are aware of. My favorite probably being one they use themselves with how obscure it is.

If you read all of my post, there’s a difference being making money and making money. Arah is introducing NEW money into the economy. Playing the trading post/selling precursors is using OLD money, that is already in the economy. NEW money hurts the economy when introduced at an alarming rate, which is what was happening with Arah P3.

Let me put it into a simple analogy since you overlooked it last time:

Arah P3 – the government printing new money at an alarming rate causing inflation. BAD.

Trading Post and lucky Precursor drops – OLD money trading hands. It was not freshly printed without backing, not causing inflation.

Yes, fix the bugs and unintended issues created, but not the ones that affect my ability to get loots.

The sword of game fixing swings both ways people…. if you can’t understand how this fix was trying to repair something that wasn’t intentionally designed, then you’re an obtuse player or just being obstinate.

Why everybody here is ranting JUST about gold. Really, how can we believe that you are not farming to sell your account or gold? Make the game IRL profittable.

Rare cases here someone has a REAL concern that don´t involve getting LOTS OF GOLD as fast as you can.

And that´s the problem. You don´t care about the game. For you game is just go to most profittable area, get lots of gold and buy your shinies. They put LOTS of effort for you to PLAY the game, to everybody note that there are much more events on Cursed Shore than only Plinx (someone knows that in the other side of the river there are more chain of events?). Even there are DRAGONS in this game and YOU can battle them.

But gold is more powerful. Stay hours getting all the gold to buy your ectos, your T6 and everything, just to make them more and more expensive. And when all the gold you farm cant buy a single ecto you start an post ranting about the high prices in this game and you can´t buy your shinies because ANET not intervene on the economy or not selling T6 craft items on store…

STOP FARM/GRIND GOLD. STOP WITH THE ONE SPOT PROFIT THEORY. Go play the game, enjoy the view, get your own T6 crafting itens (you will spend less money doing this). IF it´s not what you want there are several grind/farm games that will love you for stay playing like crazy 24/7.

If you want ANET to level lucky players, with dedicated players, with farm/grinder players well, you will never get this in any MMO. Lucky players will always get better than other types. Farm/grinders will always have lots of money and nothing to spend because the prices are high. Dedicated players will have always everything they need to get the best shinies, except those lucky part that they lucky players have.

And for someone here telling about buy in a chinese website, please just do that, and get banned and your credit card number and password stolen. And when you get kitten just come here and start a post whining about your experience, i need a real laugh.

vvp.8512:

A lot of people are angry that their exploit got fixed.

No. A lot of people are mad that ANet hotfixes and “jumps on” various exploits like these (well some of them) but ignores dungeon bugs that prevent players from completing them cough Explorables/Fractals cough.

If the bug fixing crew had the same strength as the exploit smashing crew these dungeons wouldn’t have these problems.

Sarne.4528:

Excisidium.1723:

Obvious troll is obvious.

(Going to double post here)

So what you’re saying is that ANet should hotfix absolutely everything that can bring in money. I was grinding 4g per hour with the Arah farm playing the game. But people playing the Trading Post can make 100g+ sitting in LA. Yup, that’s fair.

Also, name those 4-5 spots where you farm. If you don’t, people will call bull on you. Like I am right now.

How is repeatedly farming the first boss of a dungeon intended? Especially when you can reach that first boss without pulling any trash at all. Compounded by the fact that this path was heavily abused before for farming shards. Lastly, on top of all this, they actually made dungeon bosses worthwhile to defeat and immediately they’re being abused.

None of this seems like ArenaNet’s fault. That solely falls on abusive players.

To your comments, I just said that I know of several 3-5g/hr spots, which I’m sure Robert and crew are aware of. My favorite probably being one they use themselves with how obscure it is.

If you read all of my post, there’s a difference being making money and making money. Arah is introducing NEW money into the economy. Playing the trading post/selling precursors is using OLD money, that is already in the economy. NEW money hurts the economy when introduced at an alarming rate, which is what was happening with Arah P3.

Let me put it into a simple analogy since you overlooked it last time:

Arah P3 – the government printing new money at an alarming rate causing inflation. BAD.

Trading Post and lucky Precursor drops – OLD money trading hands. It was not freshly printed without backing, not causing inflation.

Okay, so lets say you’re right about this. In 3 days, when I come back on Monday, if the price of Ectos and T6 mats havent dropped yet, which is what you’re attributing all this “new money” to, then you’re wrong. Simple as that.

Also, I couldn’t give two jacks about Arah tokens. This is ANets fault. They have not made dungeons worth doing. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t yield 40s in the Arah dungeon. It should be a hell of a lot more. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t yield 3 blues, 2 greens in the Arah dungeon. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t give 1.8k karma in the Arah dungeon. See what I’m getting at yet? It’s their fault that they haven’t made the rewards significant enough to make people want to play the dungeon. I can get just as much Karma and even more NEW GOLD from doing my AC paths. Explain why a level 35 dungeon is introducing more NEW GOLD than a level 80 dungeon that takes 3-4x just as long.

As for your holy grail farming spots. It’s just like if you were to tell me you were a girl playing a video game. It is still bull until you provide proof.

EDIT: Also, no one ever said that farming the first two bosses of the dungeon was intended. I’m pretty sure they didn’t intend for people to sell gold in the game. I’m pretty sure they didn’t intend for bots to get into the game. I’m pretty sure they haven’t intended to bug the path to Arah/Balthazar/ect. Either way, it happens. And GW2 is slowly pushing their player base to go and buy gold from a Chinese website.

Dead.7385:

vvp.8512:

A lot of people are angry that their exploit got fixed.

No. A lot of people are mad that ANet hotfixes and “jumps on” various exploits like these (well some of them) but ignores dungeon bugs that prevent players from completing them cough Explorables/Fractals cough.

If the bug fixing crew had the same strength as the exploit smashing crew these dungeons wouldn’t have these problems.

maybe some people are but most are just upset that their way of making the most money per hour has been trashed. which is understandable, but wrapping yourself up in some fake kitten about how dungeons have never been improved and are always being nerfed is an absurd lie.

Asbrandr.6324:

wall of text

It’s a strawman argument because you can’t excuse horrible design decisions that are hurting the economy beyond repair by saying “they just want people to take longer to get expensive stuff”.

And since you kept going on about how long it takes to get expensive things I have to conclude that you still don’t understand the real issue here.

The issue is bade game design when it comes to long term goals in the game.

2 weeks ago they decided to randomly give a pretty big chuck of the player population 100-400G with absolutely no effort. And they probably thought this was a really smart idea too.

2 days ago, they see people getting the same amount of money except it takes 50-100 hours of hard work actually playing the game. But this time, it’s a huge problem and the people who were doing it need to be punished and everyone else needs to be prevented from doing this.

The issue here is horrible game design. ANet puts in place systems that punish people who make small amounts of money for doing difficult content, then turns around and puts in system that gives random players many factors greater money for not even playing the game.

If you don’t understand why these kind of decisions damage the economy then I don’t even know why we’re discussing this at all.

This is coming from someone who wants the game to be high quality and fun. And it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that what ANet is doing with these kinds of horrible design choices is ruining both the quality and fun of the game and is causing a mass exodus of people quitting the game. My guild had 300 members on launch, most of which were planning on playing the game for at least a year based on what the game was like on launch. But with all the recent horrible changes in direction the game has taken, the number of active members fell down around 40, and this is after recruiting another 200 or so people over the past 3 months. Why did this happen? It’s because ANet made stupid decisions that lowered the quality of the game and made it less fun than it was before.

This has nothing to do with people wanting to get stuff faster, it has to do with the quality of the game being damaged. Why else would I even care? I myself already got a legendary weapon 2 months ago and am sitting on over 600 gold in the bank.

Excisidium.1723:

Okay, so lets say you’re right about this. In 3 days, when I come back on Monday, if the price of Ectos and T6 mats havent dropped yet, which is what you’re attributing all this “new money” to, then you’re wrong. Simple as that.

Also, I couldn’t give two jacks about Arah tokens. This is ANets fault. They have not made dungeons worth doing. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t yield 40s in the Arah dungeon. It should be a hell of a lot more. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t yield 3 blues, 2 greens in the Arah dungeon. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t give 1.8k karma in the Arah dungeon. See what I’m getting at yet? It’s their fault that they haven’t made the rewards significant enough to make people want to play the dungeon. I can get just as much Karma and even more NEW GOLD from doing my AC paths. Explain why a level 35 dungeon is introducing more NEW GOLD than a level 80 dungeon that takes 3-4x just as long.

As for your holy grail farming spots. It’s just like if you were to tell me you were a girl playing a video game. It is still bull until you provide proof.

Sigh, so first, Ecto/T6 mats are inflating because of the new recipes for ascended gear. Have you seen those? Books/Quivers requiring Ecto and 250 T6 mat of stats of your choice. Thanks to Anet’s brilliant idea to add vertical progression, they have caused a market surge in the only piece of guaranteed infusion. On top of that, the next tier of infusion is 250e, that certainly doesn’t help Ecto prices if you have horrible RNG luck. Understand the market at little bit – first step to making profit with profit.

I don’t know what kind of group you’re running dungeons with, but I suggest you find a more reliable one if you want to make profits running Arah and I wouldn’t necessarily run it for profit. However when we do Arah, it’s about ~1.5g per path in around 40 mins to an hour, depending upon what path, not taking karma/tokens into account. You run Arah for the skin, not the cash. As numerous people have stated in this thread, it’s a game, play it. No where does it say that the goal is for money, thus dungeons should scale linearly in the same. Would it make sense? Sure. Does the fact that Arah skins are rather obscure, thus making the time an effort to run if for them worth it? Yes.

Oh and your last sentence made me laugh, considering I somehow ended up with more women than men in my gaming circle.

Edit for your edit (kitten). If they didn’t intend for it, why are you complaining that they fixed it?

@Cerise
You are wrong, YOU have one of those rares insights and a real concern. BUT this post is about they closing the source of fast income to get shinies faster.

It´s not about that kitten decision of ANET to give 100-500gold to SOME people (most of my guild was in the event, only 1 get a pre, 1 in 50…). And even then the price of the pre drop down and the price of other itens skyrocket.

They have a bad decidision, they learned a lesson but people don´t leave it behind.

But here is not about these decision, it´s about they stopped a fast and easy source of lots of money and people are using this to make more fuss and try to frame ANET from their shortcomings.

I understand your reason, but YOU are alone in a sea of gold farmers (not necessary gold sellers).

@Sarne
Yes, a lot people here is just ranting about gold and not get enough of this. Don´t play blind.

And they already said that was not their intention to make vertical progression and these are to be available in the first moment of the game.

With Borderlands2, diablo3, Tera (Ra*p*ist/Pedophile World Online) and other games just about to launch they must rushed things. And it backfired. I believe they learned a lesson and all these vertical progression kitten is just in players head.

Cerise.9045:

2 weeks ago they decided to randomly give a pretty big chuck of the player population 100-400G with absolutely no effort. And they probably thought this was a really smart idea too.

2 days ago, they see people getting the same amount of money except it takes 50-100 hours of hard work actually playing the game. But this time, it’s a huge problem and the people who were doing it need to be punished and everyone else needs to be prevented from doing this.

The issue here is horrible game design. ANet puts in place systems that punish people who make small amounts of money for doing difficult content, then turns around and puts in system that gives random players many factors greater money for not even playing the game.

Holy cow was I ever confused when I saw this (not the post, the actions taken)

Worst of all is I got lag d/c’d during the final event so who knows if I could have won the lottery

I would like to make a comment regarding the “lottery” of the Karka event.

I played it 7 times (I had 7 80s at the time). I got a Charzooka, which I equipped. Everything else was of negligible value. It wasn’t game breaking at all, with my previous comments of old and new money taken into consideration.

Sarne.4528:

Excisidium.1723:

Okay, so lets say you’re right about this. In 3 days, when I come back on Monday, if the price of Ectos and T6 mats havent dropped yet, which is what you’re attributing all this “new money” to, then you’re wrong. Simple as that.

Also, I couldn’t give two jacks about Arah tokens. This is ANets fault. They have not made dungeons worth doing. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t yield 40s in the Arah dungeon. It should be a hell of a lot more. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t yield 3 blues, 2 greens in the Arah dungeon. Spending an hour and a half shouldn’t give 1.8k karma in the Arah dungeon. See what I’m getting at yet? It’s their fault that they haven’t made the rewards significant enough to make people want to play the dungeon. I can get just as much Karma and even more NEW GOLD from doing my AC paths. Explain why a level 35 dungeon is introducing more NEW GOLD than a level 80 dungeon that takes 3-4x just as long.

As for your holy grail farming spots. It’s just like if you were to tell me you were a girl playing a video game. It is still bull until you provide proof.

Sigh, so first, Ecto/T6 mats are inflating because of the new recipes for ascended gear. Have you seen those? Books/Quivers requiring Ecto and 250 T6 mat of stats of your choice. Thanks to Anet’s brilliant idea to add vertical progression, they have caused a market surge in the only piece of guaranteed infusion. On top of that, the next tier of infusion is 250e, that certainly doesn’t help Ecto prices if you have horrible RNG luck. Understand the market at little bit – first step to making profit with profit.

I don’t know what kind of group you’re running dungeons with, but I suggest you find a more reliable one if you want to make profits running Arah and I wouldn’t necessarily run it for profit. However when we do Arah, it’s about ~1.5g per path in around 40 mins to an hour, depending upon what path, not taking karma/tokens into account. You run Arah for the skin, not the cash. As numerous people have stated in this thread, it’s a game, play it. No where does it say that the goal is for money, thus dungeons should scale linearly in the same. Would it make sense? Sure. Does the fact that Arah skins are rather obscure, thus making the time an effort to run if for them worth it? Yes.

Oh and your last sentence made me laugh, considering I somehow ended up with more women than men in my gaming circle.

Edit for your edit (kitten). If they didn’t intend for it, why are you complaining that they fixed it?

Thanks to Anet’s brilliant idea to add vertical progression,
- Blaming Anet. Thought it wasn’t their fault?

However when we do Arah, it’s about ~1.5g per path in around 40 mins to an hour, depending upon what path, not taking karma/tokens into account.
- Would love to know where this Arah is. All I see is bugged event chains. Also, bull. You don’t make that much per run unless you’re wearing MF gear.

You run Arah for the skin, not the cash.
- This shouldn’t be the case. You should get a fair amount of money/karma for spending your time in the dungeon.

No where does it say that the goal is for money
- You’re right. It doesn’t but um, what is it I need for legendaries again?

Your arguments are not really on point. So I’m done here. Good day.

@Excisidium
They already told that was not their intention and the ascended items was to be there from the start, they rushed things, they put a new item ingame and it backfired. they told they learned a lesson and for now I believe that. If ascended itens was some gem/store item necessity I will just call that they are trying to make profit on this.

Yeah, Arah is bugged, but there are more dungeons to be explored and I need help to explore some and get explorer titles.

And how you will get your legendary? How about play the game and don´t care? And then one day you put four rares in the forge and bum, get your pre, and for playing the game you have gold and t6 craft itens and even gifts.

Edit: I edit a lot my posts, sometimes to put more ideas, sometimes to correct my spelling, my english is very rusty…

Excisidium.1723:

Thanks to Anet’s brilliant idea to add vertical progression,
- Blaming Anet. Thought it wasn’t their fault?

I said jackwagons abusing Arah, not their fault. Context, context…

Excisidium.1723:

However when we do Arah, it’s about ~1.5g per path in around 40 mins to an hour, depending upon what path, not taking karma/tokens into account.
- Would love to know where this Arah is. All I see is bugged event chains. Also, bull. You don’t make that much per run unless you’re wearing MF gear.

I’d invite you to tag along, but it seems you’d skew those numbers pretty badly. Also, I thought exploiting Arah was the topic of this conversation… If it’s never up, kitten?

Excisidium.1723:

You run Arah for the skin, not the cash.
- This shouldn’t be the case. You should get a fair amount of money/karma for spending your time in the dungeon.

You obviously read above. You don’t get zero money, not even little money. You get 1.5g/hr, which is definitely FAIR money.

Excisidium.1723:

No where does it say that the goal is for money
- You’re right. It doesn’t but um, what is it I need for legendaries again?

Are you forced to get a Legendary to progress in game? No, optional, thus it is your goal, not THE goal.

Excisidium.1723:

Your arguments are not really on point. So I’m done here. Good day.

I’ll be here all day, since we got off point.

Excisidium.1723:

SiNoS.2147:

Esplen.3940:

SiNoS.2147:

Lucillia.8297:

Sleepy.2647:

Lucillia.8297:

What do you do in this game? I am genuinely curious.

Certainly not “farm” the same place for hours everyday…are you selling gold or something? Otherwise i don’t know why people is so mad…

There is something called…enjoying the game and playing it normally, not everything has to be about “what gives more profit?…let’s do that!”.

I am certainly not mad, I am just curious as to what they do. They can’t be going for a legendary or progressing into fractals. Upgrading ascended items and obtaining a legendary is rather expensive for some people. Everyone enjoys playing the game differently but the fact that he stated they’re keeping their promise to no grind is flat out wrong.

Edit: If you also read my other comments, I personally don’t mind some grind. What I DO mind is that Anet are quick on their feet to fix farming/grind spots people like to use but there are still bugs known from launch that are still around.

Ill touch on this. The whole no grind was in reference to getting max stat gear. It was not aimed at the entire game.

Getting BiS/Max Stat Gear is ridiculously easy. If you put your resources into crafting, you can easily craft it, or you can do dungeons and then convert the tokens. If none of those sound appealing, you can use your (hopefully) saved up karma to buy it from vendors in Orr.

There are so many methods that it’s disgusting and they’re all cheap. I’ve crafted those 3-6g items for about 40s spent, and that’s just because I wanted to upgrade my last few items.

Yup which is why every time i see someone on a rant about the “grind” and how they said there would not be a grind i just facepalm. They actually delivered on the no grind promise.

Okay, post your in game name here. I will send you 10g if you can go around the GW2 world and do every single event 5 times and get all of your clovers and obsidian shards. I think 5 is a fair enough number to say anything afterwards in grinding. Maybe you just like certain events a lot and feel like you want to do that one over a few times. You have a month.

You completely missed the point… The point was there statement on grind was aimed at getting max gear. Of which honestly its not a grind. Sure you can grind to get skins but the skins are not needed. So there for its optional. Something that is optional is done because you choose to do it not because you are forced to do it. Grind tends to be a term slapped on anything you are forced to do repeatedly in order to stay relevant.

@SiNoS
But people here are make the thing obrigatory and not just optional and some long term goals to get (Like my obsidans, tormenteds…).

They want it fast and will go to extreme to make gold to buy everything. they don´t care if it will only make the prices skyrocket (ops, already happened) or if it will make others stop play (like people getting kicked from parties because they don´t want to do only the first boss).

They just want money fast and easy and will make a hell to everyone if they don´t give them what they want.

And that’s the point. There are lot of games that grind and farm is obrigatory because there will always be a lot of new powerful gear. and they are trying to make the same thing here even if like ANET said that will not be more powerful gears and they will have all time to get they gears.

Here is not obrigatory to grind, no one will put a kitten gear with +99999999 in all atributes in your face. If you get your exotics and some ascended you are in the game. And it´s even different from GW1 if you are on a not necessary profission and/or don´t have an specific skill you never do a dungeon. I have hard times in the past for people to believe in my guild that my mesmer was a good choice for PVE and not a PVP only profession (before some DOA I never have to beg again).

Yeah, I know that there are a lot of those elitist people and it will ever be in every MMO, they are kittens and whe can´t do nothing about that. Just look for better pugs and curse ANET for not putting a better LFG system in the game.

I’d add my POV to this already insane thread.
To me, the saying that killing just 2 bosses in a dungeon is not how it should be (meaning you should just finish it) is just bull.You play the game however the hell you like.
Some time ago, there was a dude who made a party for farming CoE chests for charged lodestones.For that purpose, to save time he and his fellows didn’t finish the dungeon, just farmed the easier to get to chests.Was it nerfed?I don’t recall it being done.
I do agree of course that this method devalues gold and is bad.Yet, Arenanet failed.Big time.

I’ll tell you guys how you failed.You knew for a fairly long time that the problem was there.You suspected that it might evolve into what it is now.Yet you did nothing till it happened.Now, there are 2 angry groups – those that lost on their favorite farm spot, and those angry that they missed on such a good chance, while others used it(early game godskull exploit says hi again).

And your next big fail, is that you didn’t provide upfront info on it.You answered only after the question was asked, you didn’t openly say that it was a problem creating multiple other problems slowly destroying the game.Most of the hotfixes like this are not something you people say, you simply do it behind the scenes.And even if they are an accurate(somehow) decision, it is still aggravating to do it behind our backs.

An advice – be more upfront about such matters.Say what you mean and don’t be so covert.It feels like you’re afraid of your own actions.And that does not bode well.

Excisidium.1723:

But people playing the Trading Post can make 100g+ sitting in LA. Yup, that’s fair.

This is being ignorant, those people are making money by taking it away from others, not by adding more money to the server. So if they can control the market good for them, that’s called being “smart” and opportunist.

@Ivanov Farming a chance drop is not the same as farming money directly on top of the extra loot you may get, so it’s not comparable to farm “lodestones” that you can get 1 in 10 hours or 5 in an hour to gaining 5g minimum on average plus some more if you are lucky with drops.

IF you want to kill only two bosses in a dungeon NOTHING is stoping you from that, except your OWN GREED. They don´t put a barrier in front a boss and said that you need to explore all dungeon then kill the boss. They just take the easy loot from them.

The CoE chest is a random loot, so running to only one chest just to have a chance to get lodestones is not a big problem to be nerfed. BUT the first boss on the dungeon almost ALL THE time give the loot.

Stop trying to change the thing to other problems. Stop shouting random similar situations to justify your greed.

Cerise.9045:

It’s a strawman argument because you can’t excuse horrible design decisions that are hurting the economy beyond repair by saying “they just want people to take longer to get expensive stuff”.

You’re misusing the strawman fallacy because you’re saying yourself that the economy is a consequence of poor design decisions. You can’t talk about the reasoning behind the design decisions that affect the economy without theorizing about the current state of the game economy. Therefore, I am not misrepresenting your position on the topic; I’m addressing the reasons why I don’t think this particular decision is a poor one. Now then, I don’t typically like breaking apart quotes because it seems more impolite, but this time I will. So with all due respect here are my thoughts on this issue:

Cerise.9045:

2 weeks ago they decided to randomly give a pretty big chuck of the player population 100-400G with absolutely no effort. And they probably thought this was a really smart idea too.

A) A lot of people got really lucky with the boosted RNG for that event. They stated that they wanted to bring pre-cursors down in price; this helped do that. That 100-400G is not magically appearing, it’s changing hands. It has always been in the economy. Giving out pre-cursors as a point in your argument is moot because otherwise, the war you’re waging is whether or not RNG is a poor design decision; despite that every MMO ever runs on it. By this logic, using a real-life example, you’re saying that it isn’t fair for only a few people to win the lottery, even though many people participate in it.

Cerise.9045:

2 days ago, they see people getting the same amount of money except it takes 50-100 hours of hard work actually playing the game. But this time, it’s a huge problem and the people who were doing it need to be punished and everyone else needs to be prevented from doing this.

B) I’ll give you what I think their viewpoint on this is: They saw people playing the game in a way that was unintended and fixed it appropriately. Speed clearing, the way I understand it is occurring in this instance, is only hard work in the sense that you’re spending copious amounts of time to perform a repetitive task to earn guaranteed, generated gold, other than that there is no difficulty in it. In a nutshell, you’re skipping bosses to rush a dungeon, which obviously is not intended given their response to the matter. The easiest way for them to fix this permanently is to remove the generated gold reward and buff the item rewards accordingly. This removes the gold-factor on the economy but may have a detrimental result on certain rare items losing value because the supply is higher.

Cerise.9045:

The issue here is horrible game design. ANet puts in place systems that punish people who make small amounts of money for doing difficult content, then turns around and puts in system that gives random players many factors greater money for not even playing the game.

See point A). RNG isn’t new; it has been around for a very long time. By playing an MMO you’re willingly entering a gamble every time you kill something or open a chest. The only way for this not to be so is to offer guaranteed awards like tokens or gold. Unfortunately, the latter gave us this mess to begin with.

Cerise.9045:

If you don’t understand why these kind of decisions damage the economy then I don’t even know why we’re discussing this at all.

These decisions only help the economy because it removes a source of what is essentially mass-printed currency, which in turn increases the buying power of each individual piece of gold. As for the point on free pre-cursors, if you consider devaluing pre-cursors damaging to the economy, you should consider that people have be demanding that they be more accessible for quite a while now and this was ANet’s attempt to lower their pricing and make them more accessible. Regardless, of whether you think devaluing pre-cursors is a bad thing, the free pre-cursors had little effect beyond giving a few lucky people money from someone else through trade and introducing more supply into that one market to attempt to combat the prices that were already in place.

This is the second of two posts including the one above this one.

Cerise.9045:

This is coming from someone who wants the game to be high quality and fun. And it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that what ANet is doing with these kinds of horrible design choices is ruining both the quality and fun of the game and is causing a mass exodus of people quitting the game. My guild had 300 members on launch, most of which were planning on playing the game for at least a year based on what the game was like on launch. But with all the recent horrible changes in direction the game has taken, the number of active members fell down around 40, and this is after recruiting another 200 or so people over the past 3 months. Why did this happen? It’s because ANet made stupid decisions that lowered the quality of the game and made it less fun than it was before.

So because you have one specific viewpoint of the game and use one specific example it means that the game is suddenly less fun than before for everyone? Right? This is a hasty generalization that only applies to people with your specific mindset. Perhaps ANet’s vision for the game merely does not line up with your own. They clearly don’t want people to mindlessly rush dungeons and generate magic gold, which is essentially what you’re arguing to support.

Cerise.9045:

This has nothing to do with people wanting to get stuff faster, it has to do with the quality of the game being damaged. Why else would I even care? I myself already got a legendary weapon 2 months ago and am sitting on over 600 gold in the bank.

So my question to you is this: If you already have money and don’t want anything, why subject yourself to mindlessly rush a dungeon over and over again to generate more money that you apparently don’t need? Did you find it fun? Because I sure don’t.

I think the only thing we agree on is that ANet needs to provide better rewards for playing the game. We just disagree on the ways they should go about it and I don’t see you suggesting anything that fixes that problem other than to revoke the design decisions, particularly this change and a few you haven’t mentioned specifically, they’ve already made.

I’ve said capping listing prices would certainly help, because it would allow goods to move through the market quicker and reduce prices on highly priced items where demand is lower than the supply. Another suggestion I have in this very post is to remove or significantly reduce the generated gold part of the dungeon reward and instead boost the RNG drop chances on rarer items to be a reasonable level. Actual players, not bots, will still be able to get the larger sums of generated gold from exploration (once per character per zone) and the quality of drops overall will be higher, which should increase the rate at which money changes hands. However, I concede that a potential side-effect of this is that demand would not increase with the new supply fast enough and could dramatically lower prices on certain items like ectos.

The core of it is that, for anything, rarity determines value. Nothing easy to get is ever worth very much. So you either have a market with very few rare items not in supply and cheap prices on average, a market that’s in between the two extremes (which is what we have now), or a market that has many rare items with high demand and low supply where prices are high on average. Inflation caused by this way of getting generated gold would only make prices rise across the board for any of the three scenarios I mentioned above.

On a less serious note: This is probably more than I’ve ever written to address something through a forum medium, lol.

Arekai.5698:

If you create a game where you have to grind immeasurable amounts of gold for simple things like a shiny weapon or seasonal goodies like halloween skins or materials for leveling a profession to 400, why the hell do you kill every single way to get gold for little time?

Has it occured to you that maybe the developers didn’t want you to get your legendary weapon in 3 months?

Also, I don’t get it why you are so angry about the nerf. The loot from those bosses was obviously high compared to what you got out of the full dungeon. What they should do, is lower the rewards of the first 2 bosses, and heavily increase lupicus and afterwards, so people feel compelled to finish the dungeon. Farming gold and tokens with you brain switched off might be relaxing, but it’s no fun at all. i almost fell asleep playing a couple of days ago, and it’s the first time it happens to me while playing a game.

They can’t give good rewards for challenging content because there is no challenging content in the game.

If only they would introduce a hard mode, where if you wipe you are done. No way- or checkpoints, no bullkitten. Put small rewards from killing trash but focus heavily on the end chest. Oh wait that sounds like UW from GW1. Too bad they couldn’t realize that what they had in GW1 in terms of dungeons worked perfectly.

All farms like this do is inflate the economy, so I’m glad it got wrecked.

Ahlen.7591:

All farms like this do is inflate the economy, so I’m glad it got wrecked.

Right but now all the people that did have lots of money and those that didn’t are even further behind. So it really didn’t solve that problem did it?

evolverzilla.2359:

IF you want to kill only two bosses in a dungeon NOTHING is stoping you from that, except your OWN GREED. They don´t put a barrier in front a boss and said that you need to explore all dungeon then kill the boss. They just take the easy loot from them.

The CoE chest is a random loot, so running to only one chest just to have a chance to get lodestones is not a big problem to be nerfed. BUT the first boss on the dungeon almost ALL THE time give the loot.

Stop trying to change the thing to other problems. Stop shouting random similar situations to justify your greed.

The context of that statement was meant to be towards the phrase “killing just the 2 bosses is not the intended way to do this thing”. The intended way is what you alone choose it to be.Simple as that.

And greed?Whose greed?Please either re-read my post or just learn to read altogether.
And if by any chance you meant my greed, then I would kindly ask you to give some proof that I’m one of this bug’s offenders.If you can’t provide it, then shut the kitten up.

Edit: Just to clarify before someone nitpicks about me using the word “bug”, I used it because this situation was clearly not intended by the devs, was a mistake that was corrected and thus I cannot give it a better name.

To all the people saying this is a game play it, that its not about the money ok….

Greta idea remove all currency from the game and give every player any gear they want for free. If money in a game is not important than you should be able to give everyone BiS gear for free so we can stop worrying about someone having an unfair advantage gear wise at least and proceed to simply enjoying the game.

Thank you for the great suggestion guys! Lets all be giving BiS and be done with it then we can be on to the fun!

So if you could already farm 3-5g an hour in other spots, what reason did they have to nerf this? Was this easier then 5 people in MF gear running in a circle 1-shotting world mobs? Certainly not.

I reported this Arah Farm week ago. I dont think it should not be possible you to farm first boss and just reset the dungeon all the time.

I am glad Arenanet Fixed this issue. They didnt kill your farm, they killed your exploit of easy money and easy tokens.

HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK that just entering dungeon, skipping first bunch of mobs, bugs the boss the way he cant one shot you with hammer, killing him in one minute and then reseting the dungeon another 50 times is normal way of farming money?

First … YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED to have any tokens unless you complete the dungeons. This way every noob, bad player could farm Arah gear in few days and be on pair with players that are normally completing this dungeon for months now.

Second .. They didnt kill your farm, they killed your easy farm. Dungeons are not there to be reseted after one boss down, they are there to be fully completed.

You all act like a childrens and I am glad they took away your grind here.

Myself having nearly 1200 hours played with my Gift of The Juggernaut and Fortune in bank I know what it takes to gain this, AND I DIDNT NEED TO FARM FIRST BOSS OF ANYTHING. I just played the game, farmed cursed shore, did full dungeons runs, did wvw.

Dont even try to argue about high TP prices, we can see them. The prices are where they should be. Bans made them lower and now they are back to normal. They are high vs bots cheap prices.
Ectos was the most expensive material in GW 1. In guild wars 2 it was 15-25 silver joke. Now the prices are where they should be.

Are you also the ones that complained when they fixed CoF exploits too? I guess you are! Am I right?

I have done arah about 40 times now. I completed it normal way and I dont want to see any bad player who didnt even see the last bosses to wear same armor as me.

Good job arenanet. You have my full support at this one.

Suggestion: Put 12-24 hours lock outs from completed dungeons please.

havoc.8569:

So if you could already farm 3-5g an hour in other spots, what reason did they have to nerf this? Was this easier then 5 people in MF gear running in a circle 1-shotting world mobs? Certainly not.

They nerfed it because killing one boss then reset the dungeon is not what the dungeons are for. They are supposed to be completed. Not reseted every 5 minute.

For god sake. You guys really joking right … Complaining about this?
Its like if the bots complained about getting banned …

Its normal to see this: LFM ARAH farming first boss – 5 gold/hour, easy money .. ?
NO its not. You had to see this comming ..

If I were developer I would ban every single each of you for doing this and wounldnt care about you complaining afterwards.

You mad? Whisper me ingame I dont mind.

Dogblaster.6713:

HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK that just entering dungeon, skipping first bunch of mobs, bugs the boss the way he cant one shot you with hammer, killing him in one minute and then reseting the dungeon another 50 times is normal way of farming money?

First … YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED to have any tokens unless you complete the dungeons. This way every noob, bad player could farm Arah gear in few days and be on pair with players that are normally completing this dungeon for months now.

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Second .. They didnt kill your farm, they killed your exploit. Dungeons are not there to be reseted after one boss down, they are there to be Completed.

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Suggestion: Put 12-24 hours lock outs from completed dungeons please.

First, what ‘bugs the boss’ are you talking about? you mean using the terrain to your advantage is buggin the boss? So, if the terrain contains rocks that difficult your vision, and limit your movement options that’s ok, but if you use those rocks to your advantage then it’s not ok? bug? the hammer guy could easily follow you to the upper rock and kill all the party, so I see no bug.

Besides, the only difficulty that hammer guy has, is that with 5 people hitting on him, sometimes you cannot see where he is aiming his hammer at.

About not being supposed to have tokens unless I complete a full run, that was before the changes to the loot. Now, every boss has a chance of dropping tokens. Deal with it. You are not being robbed of anything. I did the farm and I got 200 tokens, and I don’t think it was less fun than wiping with lupicus again and again because it’s impossible to find a group of people who can actually avoid being killed.

Second, it was not an exploit. An exploit is an abuse of things that don’t work as they are supposed to. The loot from these bosses was what arenanet wanted to (and it was obvious it was goin to be farmed). I really don’t see no difference between killing the same boss again and again, or farming the same event chain again and again. YOU did farm cursed shore, didn’t you?

as per the lockouts, i don’t see the need. Arah takes 1:30-2:00 hours (and if it takes less, then the group is really good, let them have it!)

Other dungeons take less, and you need to do another route or go find something else to do if it’s locked…..

As you said: ‘’The loot from these bosses was what arenanet wanted to’’

Now developers hotfixed this(its clearly what arenanet wants now) because it was clearly abused in big and you complain ? What?

Dont try to tell me how much Arah takes, I ve done him plenty of times, In fact I have almost two full complete sets. I can complete path 2-3 in less than 50 minute each.

Just dont be mad, you can clearly see what developers want because they hotfixed this. Maybe its not exploitable isssue but it surely wasnt intended.

Yes I farmed cursed shore by doing several events, but I completed every single event, didnt reset him, so clearly I did it how it was supposed to be done Not like you reseting the dungeon all the time

So just get over it. Dungeons are there to be completed and you cant deny this.

‘’Deal with it. You are not being robbed of anything.’’ Exactly .. you are not

If you dont see any difference between completing 10 events VS killing the first boss and reseting the dungeon. Then… just let me please laught really hard xD xD

So no one’s with me on the whole let’s just give everyone BiS gear solution to all this I mean you guys kept screaming at us about how were not supposed to be finding the quickest ways to farm gold and how everyone’s so concerned about the gear but you don’t want to just give everyone BiS so we can all be equal and worry about fun and pvp and such?

That and just get rid of currency, what would we need it if you just gave us all best gear and eliminated need for any consumable’s. Yes no maybe?

Just nerf all decent ways to farm gold so you can grind until your eyes bleed to feel like you’ve accomplished something meaningful? Ah ok I’ll take it that’s why you give no response to me.

Good move imo.We were promised a grinding free game.

Come on .. stop complaining already

They did the right thing. Everyone see this comming go find you a new way how to abuse the system … It should keep you ocuppied for a while

@skotie .. lol, really? Just get over it

Dogblaster.6713:

Come on .. stop complaining already

They did the right thing. Everyone see this comming go find you a new way how to abuse the system … It should keep you ocuppied for a while

@skotie .. really? Can you just move along .. No sane person will respond to your posts .. hmm I must be Insane, because I dont undertand why I did ..

Funny enough, from all the comments so far, you sound like a butt-hurt child the most because you probably missed on farming the spot.Or you simply find more value in yourself when others have less and less?All your points so far are a joke that’s not even remotely funny, and you presented them in an even more ridiculous way.

Also, stop putting words in people’s mouths as to who is crying and who is not, and use a quote to show to whom exactly you’re speaking.

Ivanov.8914:

Dogblaster.6713:

Come on .. stop complaining already

They did the right thing. Everyone see this comming go find you a new way how to abuse the system … It should keep you ocuppied for a while

@skotie .. really? Can you just move along .. No sane person will respond to your posts .. hmm I must be Insane, because I dont undertand why I did ..

Funny enough, from all the comments so far, you sound like a butt-hurt child the most because you probably missed on farming the spot.Or you simply find more value in yourself when others have less and less?All your points so far are a joke that’s not even remotely funny, and you presented them in an even more ridiculous way.

Also, stop putting words in people’s mouths as to who is crying and who is not, and use a quote to show to whom exactly you’re speaking.

You ve got a point there .. but nah I am done with my legendary in two days .. Also I bought my cultural tier 3 around 2 months ago I am pretty happy with where I am atm.
I have no needs to be somehow jealous and I dont care if there are 10x richer players than me.

I just dont like when someone Abuse the system .. I dont care if they do it for token or golds

Whatever .. this is my last post in this useless topic.

Good luck there

Well, cheers for the mature response at least

Enjoy your game, that’s what matters.

Dead.7385:

vvp.8512:

A lot of people are angry that their exploit got fixed.

No. A lot of people are mad that ANet hotfixes and “jumps on” various exploits like these (well some of them) but ignores dungeon bugs that prevent players from completing them cough Explorables/Fractals cough.

If the bug fixing crew had the same strength as the exploit smashing crew these dungeons wouldn’t have these problems.

Yes this is what i’m angry about, two times today AC broken we had to reset it, and you can 15 min patch some exploit out ASAP but no actual real fixes ever get implemented.. this is getting tiring..how about hot fixing the prices in the Trading Post please..

Dogblaster.6713:

Now developers hotfixed this(its clearly what arenanet wants now) because it was clearly abused in big and you complain ? What?

Eh, arm, except I never complained about the fix. I was just saying that farming the first boss wasn’t an exploit. I actually think it’s ok that they fixed it, the farm made it impossible for me to find people to do a full run with.

I would really like to know what other farm spots were comparable…

Darklimbo.1476:

Good move imo.We were promised a grinding free game.

And you’re not forced to grind. You can easily get BiS without any grind whatsoever (minus Ascended rings).

As for everyone else complaining about fixing exploits instead of bugs, if you’ve ever coded before, you’d understand that it’s easier to tweak something that works then it is to fix something that doesn’t.

Plus, I’m sure they have multiple teams working on different things. They allocate their teams accordingly, it’s not like they’re going to put everyone on bug fixing, what’s the art guy going to do? Draw a pretty landscape of a bug-free environment?

Svarty.8019:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It was getting pretty abused. We had some solid metrics on it, and decided to kill the loot from one of the bosses in an attempt to slow it down.

It was indeed a hotfix.

Less chat about this, more fixing Simin plx!

In fact, you’ve had ages to hotfix that so she heals slower…

why fix simin she’s good how it is, all these ppl and their nerfing need to learn how to play there class and find better group selections. Arah is the last end game dungeon it should be a challange in fact i’ld prefer it if they made it harder. I think the a net team did a good job hot fixing this situation so ppl werent milking tokens like they use to

@Asbrandr

I care because I want GW2 to be a good game.

And no I don’t farm dungeons, because I don’t need the money. I mostly play WvW and I could rant for hours about ANet needing to spend more time fixing problems that have been in WvW since BWE1 and less time doing stupid things that make more people quit the game.

I see we can choose to grind our eyeballs out but lets not give everyone BiS so they can just get on with the fun.

Then the geeks who wasted more time then everyone else wouldn’t have an advantage over everyone else that’s why legendry’s need to be “hard” to get aka spending more time on ones backside doing useless stuff than the next guy.

Before the “games are time sinks argument hits” of course they are, but they are meant to be fun, very little in this game so far has been actual fun especially since hitting 80. It might actually still be fun if trying to get the equipment to be on par with others didn’t feel like an absurdly long and dull process where every time someone finds a way to get a small amount of headway they “fix” the problem but again making you take yet even more time to acquire the mats/money.

O yes but if it doesn’t take grinding your eyeballs out to get its not Legendary!! Yes I forgot the Legendary equivalence is only equal to….

amount of time sitting on butt/time spent bored out of mind

Ned Stark.9356:

Nice way to change the poster of your quote. Too bad anyone can view my post history and see I didn’t post that though.
PS: I give you 1 point for creativity

Sorry that was accidential, I removed the wrong quote tag.

My favorite people are the ones that come in to complain that since X people got to run an exploit, they should be able to run an exploit. Good logic. After watching TV coverage of Hurricane Katrina a few years back, I went down to my local Best Buy and and smashed open the windows and stole a bunch of plasma TVs. When the cops arrested me and asked me why I did it, I told them because I saw a bunch of other people doing it on TV so I figured I should be able to do it, too. We all agreed and went and had some ice cream.

Winner-winner, chicken dinner. Okay, maybe farming the first boss on that path in Arah isn’t a textbook ‘exploit’, but at the end of the day just because somebody else took advantage of something, doesn’t mean everybody is obligated to it. Don’t work that way.

My favorite people are those people who think because they wasted ten years of their life to dig a hole using a spoon everyone else should have to use a spoon too and get ticked off when someone bring’s a back hoe and dig’s same hole in less then a week. Good logic. After talking to said guy he realized it was just too easy to not waste away countless time because he thought of a better way to do something than I did so he stopped digging with his equipment and used a spoon as well.

Ok maybe doing it the long way just because that’s the fair way isn’t the smartest thing to do but just because lots of people like to do something in a very time consuming manner doesn’t mean the rest of us have to as well. Finding an easier way to do things is pretty natural honestly.

So in your mind, doing things as fast as YOU WANT not the way it´s intended is ok.

Even them showing that NOT THE WAY they want you to do it fast, you don´t stop complain.

Well let´s make a suggestion. Why not every boss drop 100G or a exotic equivalent. and better, why not in a 1 person dungeon, without any trash mobs between you and the boss. And there´s more, why not the boss simply impale himself whith his own sword whitouth a fight and when you loot him there´s a list of all the prizes for you to choose.

And even that all will complain about how difficult is to choose 1 item in a list.

That´s the way ANET is showing that they don´t want you to take EVERY EASY route to be rich, they want you to play. A good player know that and learn how to clear a dungeon as fast as they need to get to their loot. It´s not open a hole with a spoon or with a Caterpillar, it´s about play a game, know how it works and be a better player.

If you want the easy way to do everything there are lots of games where you can exploit or farm spots and get rich. It´s as simply as that. And when these games get inflationed, the economy simply inexistent and everything in the game impossible to buy for a newbie gamer and everything becomes boring, then come here and tell about your diggin a easy hole.

evolverzilla.2359:

So in your mind, doing things as fast as YOU WANT not the way it´s intended is ok.

Unless explicitly forbidden by the game mechanics, yes.