Guild Wars 2

Well me and my friend conversed about how hard it is to get into the raids.
people have to prove to others just to get accepted.
what would be the solution?
give an indicator for people who didn’t raid much.
and give a party an incentive in a form of an actual reward for letting a player with the indicator in.
then people are sure to bring one. the indicator would be account wide.
It would be removed as soon as someone get enough LI and people would have incentive to get that because then it would be easier for them to find a party.

Has been proposed many times already. Unfortunately, it won’t work, for many reasons.
1. if the incentive is not good enough to offset greater risk of failing the boss, it will be ignored.
2. if the incentive is good enough, it will be exploited (usually by using secondary accounts of veteran raiders)
3. you will never get people to agree which level of LI’s is “experienced enough”, so you will still see people asking for LI’s in order to filter off the people that are above the LI limit, but are still (according to those people) too inexperienced to group with.
4. additionally, if, say, the limit was at 50 LI, many people would assume that everyone that has those has been carried by experienced groups just for the incentive, and don’t actually know the encounter at all. Which means, the required LIs for joining a raid group would simply get increased by 50 across the board.

1. Make the reward good enough.
2. Require the player to participate at killing the boss.
3+4. If pepole are required to kill the boss then people would know they kow what to do.

If it’s such a problem, why don’t those players form their own group? Clearly there must be a lot of them if it’s a problem.

Ayrilana.1396:

If it’s such a problem, why don’t those players form their own group? Clearly there must be a lot of them if it’s a problem.

Because effort and leadership skills aren’t core tenants of group content /s

Astral outlined the problems well. In particular problem #2. It sounds like you think Astral was implying one player would afk on account 2, while playing with their main account. That is not the case, one player would actually raid on their alt account.

It is actually very easy to get an alt account raid ready. Lv 80 boost an engi, use a power engi (core spec), run cof a few times for zerker gear. Its not optimal by any means, but for a good group it won’t really be a problem either.

10 people in a static all do it together, means that for the price of 1 account, you get 10 weeks of bonus rewards in your full clears? That’s what? 5$ a week? Less if you get hot when its on sale.

In addition, you get an alt account out of the deal: daily log in rewards, daily fractals rewards, weekly raid rewards (save up 1000 magnetite, sell ghostly infusion, transfer gold to main account, repeat).

Ofc Anet might be fine with this, after all it leads to ppl buying accounts (which you can’t get with gems).

thrag.9740:

Astral outlined the problems well. In particular problem #2. It sounds like you think Astral was implying one player would afk on account 2, while playing with their main account. That is not the case, one player would actually raid on their alt account.

It is actually very easy to get an alt account raid ready. Lv 80 boost an engi, use a power engi (core spec), run cof a few times for zerker gear. Its not optimal by any means, but for a good group it won’t really be a problem either.

10 people in a static all do it together, means that for the price of 1 account, you get 10 weeks of bonus rewards in your full clears? That’s what? 5$ a week? Less if you get hot when its on sale.

In addition, you get an alt account out of the deal: daily log in rewards, daily fractals rewards, weekly raid rewards (save up 1000 magnetite, sell ghostly infusion, transfer gold to main account, repeat).

Ofc Anet might be fine with this, after all it leads to ppl buying accounts (which you can’t get with gems).

Well, that is not a problem, require everyone to not be afk to get the bonus reward. Also make the reward big enough to justify bringing another player but noy enough to justify account purchaae. One more thing should be noted that even if some people would use it to buy another accoun most people woouldnt be doing such a thing.

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

If it’s such a problem, why don’t those players form their own group? Clearly there must be a lot of them if it’s a problem.

Because effort and leadership skills aren’t core tenants of group content /s

It’s not about forming a group or leadership. Its about difficulty gap. I who never beaten a boss allready know how to do so on 3 of the bosses. I form a group and explain people what to do. and at first as a group we suck, takes time to get it. every try we get a bit better. The problem is, people get impatient. Most of the time when the boss gets to 20% and then we lose at least one person breaks and leaves. Since in raids everyone has their own parts u need to explain the new guy what to do and he needs to get better so it takes us backwards and then more and more people leave until even i get frustrated and leave. until the next time where i form a new group and the cycle begins anew.

Thenme.6491:

give an indicator for people who didn’t raid much.
and give a party an incentive in a form of an actual reward for letting a player with the indicator in.
then people are sure to bring one. the indicator would be account wide.
It would be removed as soon as someone get enough LI and people would have incentive to get that because then it would be easier for them to find a party.

There is already something like this in the game, it’s called raid selling. And the extra “incentive” is the gold from the sale. It helps with “exploiting” the reward with secondary accounts since the gold is coming from those buying, and the sellers can’t get an extra reward by bringing a second account. There is also no confusion about LI, and no need for an indicator.

See how it works in actually helping people start raiding (spoiler: it doesn’t)

Thenme.6491:

It’s not about forming a group or leadership. Its about difficulty gap. I who never beaten a boss allready know how to do so on 3 of the bosses. I form a group and explain people what to do. and at first as a group we suck, takes time to get it. every try we get a bit better. The problem is, people get impatient. Most of the time when the boss gets to 20% and then we lose at least one person breaks and leaves. Since in raids everyone has their own parts u need to explain the new guy what to do and he needs to get better so it takes us backwards and then more and more people leave until even i get frustrated and leave. until the next time where i form a new group and the cycle begins anew.

Stop pugging raids, look for a raiding guild/community. There are enough out there in EU and NA and you’ll at least find one that will recruit you instantly even as beginner.

maddoctor.2738:

Thenme.6491:

give an indicator for people who didn’t raid much.
and give a party an incentive in a form of an actual reward for letting a player with the indicator in.
then people are sure to bring one. the indicator would be account wide.
It would be removed as soon as someone get enough LI and people would have incentive to get that because then it would be easier for them to find a party.

There is already something like this in the game, it’s called raid selling. And the extra “incentive” is the gold from the sale. It helps with “exploiting” the reward with secondary accounts since the gold is coming from those buying, and the sellers can’t get an extra reward by bringing a second account. There is also no confusion about LI, and no need for an indicator.

See how it works in actually helping people start raiding (spoiler: it doesn’t)

there is a diffrence from selling raids to players who will watch from the side and do nothing to requireing participation of all 10 players of the raid.
because he will play he will learn the mechanics better, instead of just getting the loot.

Vinceman.4572:

Stop pugging raids, look for a raiding guild/community. There are enough out there in EU and NA and you’ll at least find one that will recruit you instantly even as beginner.

i want to play this part of the game, i don’t want to make this game my life, and i did search for guilds, none of which accepted recuitment without Li

Thenme.6491:

there is a diffrence from selling raids to players who will watch from the side and do nothing to requireing participation of all 10 players of the raid.
because he will play he will learn the mechanics better, instead of just getting the loot.

How are you going to “require” participation? Suppose you are doing Escort and after the second tower the newbie touches a mine and dies. What happens then?

Furthermore, a dead newbie player is in lots of boss encounters preferable to an alive one.

Thenme.6491:

there is a diffrence from selling raids to players who will watch from the side and do nothing to requireing participation of all 10 players of the raid.

So, they will play. And usually die, really fast. Participation requirement fulfilled.

And you really can’t require anything more, or it would go against the very purpose you wanted. Let’s face it, any newbie is almost certainly going to fail hard the first times they’re trying the raid. If they were able to play throughout the encounter without problems, they wouldn’t really be newbies. They wouldn’t need to learn anymore. And there’s no real way to distinguish this from people buying the encounter.

So all it would cause is that (apart from people ignoring the incentive completely), you’d get groups cheesing it using alternate accounts/bringing in close friends, and groups selling that one spot for a discount for newbies. The discount depending on how big the incentive would be.

I really doubt that it would cause LFG requirements to drop in any visible way outside of those cases.

Thenme.6491:

i want to play this part of the game, i don’t want to make this game my life, and i did search for guilds, none of which accepted recuitment without Li

Um, where are you? Na or EU? We never ask for LI to join guild, that’s just silly.

Thenme.6491:

…..i did search for guilds, none of which accepted recuitment without Li

Then you were looking at the wrong guilds. There are plenty out there that do not require LI and take beginners.

Furthermore:

Thenme.6491:

Well, that is not a problem, require everyone to not be afk to get the bonus reward. Also make the reward big enough to justify bringing another player but noy enough to justify account purchaae. One more thing should be noted that even if some people would use it to buy another accoun most people woouldnt be doing such a thing.

There is no such thing as making the reward “big enough to justify bringing another player but noy enough to justify account purchaae.” Any reward that is worth bringing a new account, is worth buying another account. Simply because buying a new account is cheap, and keeps on giving. The new player I’ll only see once, and most likely never again, esp if it is a pug.

While you are right that most people wouldn’t be purchasing new accounts to do this, most of the people that are experienced or you would want to take you, will be doing this, so you will still be in the same position.

Thenme.6491:

i want to play this part of the game, i don’t want to make this game my life, and i did search for guilds, none of which accepted recuitment without Li

And? You still can. Raids weren’t designed to be pugged in the first place and advertised as organized group content. Deal with it.
And referring to the guild part: I don’t believe you. Ask in a raiding initiative or a starter guild. Don’t ask the experienced ones because it is obvious that these do not want to carry dead weight over weeks till you have learned.

The solution is not to pug raids if you are new to them.

It requires a little effort but there are several guilds recruiting for people forvraifing that will teach you the mechanics and rotations.

You can also form up a static raid group and learn them that way. It requires some dedication and time from each member but is incredibly rewarding when you succeed.

Raids are demanding but reasonable. You may think that the community is toxic to bre players but it’s really not. It’s just hard to pug with new players as many people don’t want to reinvent the wheel every time.

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

If it’s such a problem, why don’t those players form their own group? Clearly there must be a lot of them if it’s a problem.

Because effort and leadership skills aren’t core tenants of group content /s

wipe out the elitism and the I am so pro thinking like this and take away all dps meters from the game add ons . and make the players use the dps meters in the game the game came with .

and give better rewards and let players of all types of play do the raid . they fail or they will make it . but as it stands now raids with all its problems is not even worth bothering with at all .

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

wipe out the elitism and the I am so pro thinking like this and take away all dps meters from the game add ons . and make the players use the dps meters in the game the game came with .

and give better rewards and let players of all types of play do the raid . they fail or they will make it . but as it stands now raids with all its problems is not even worth bothering with at all .

Bad players will still remain bad players if they do not want to take effort. The removal of DPS meters wouldn’t change anything. On the contrary people will kick more randomly again like before the introduction of meters instead of knowing the one(s) slacking.

Thenme.6491:

thrag.9740:

It sounds like you think Astral was implying one player would afk on account 2, while playing with their main account. That is not the case, one player would actually raid on their alt account.

Well, that is not a problem, require everyone to not be afk to get the bonus reward

LOL

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

If it’s such a problem, why don’t those players form their own group? Clearly there must be a lot of them if it’s a problem.

Because effort and leadership skills aren’t core tenants of group content /s

wipe out the elitism and the I am so pro thinking like this and take away all dps meters from the game add ons . and make the players use the dps meters in the game the game came with .

and give better rewards and let players of all types of play do the raid . they fail or they will make it . but as it stands now raids with all its problems is not even worth bothering with at all .

Create your own group that play, think, and are as experienced as you. This is what I’ve been telling people to do for years who were upset about skipping and speed runs in dungeons.

Ayrilana.1396:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

If it’s such a problem, why don’t those players form their own group? Clearly there must be a lot of them if it’s a problem.

Because effort and leadership skills aren’t core tenants of group content /s

wipe out the elitism and the I am so pro thinking like this and take away all dps meters from the game add ons . and make the players use the dps meters in the game the game came with .

and give better rewards and let players of all types of play do the raid . they fail or they will make it . but as it stands now raids with all its problems is not even worth bothering with at all .

Create your own group that play, think, and are as experienced as you. This is what I’ve been telling people to do for years who were upset about skipping and speed runs in dungeons.

Literally the solution to the problem. However people will still find some excuse to blame as to why they can’t.

I want to emphasis how good the advice these two are giving. Finding teammates who are like minded is an extremely effective way to enjoy this game.

The difficulty is always to find 9 other like-minded ppl.

It takes time but once you get enough raid buddies, everything becomes easy.

Or they could just dummy down the raids that they become snorefests and could be pugged by randoms. That would also fix the problem..

But you know what.. Anet is not going to do anything to change what is.

So… deal.

Vinceman.4572:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

wipe out the elitism and the I am so pro thinking like this and take away all dps meters from the game add ons . and make the players use the dps meters in the game the game came with .

and give better rewards and let players of all types of play do the raid . they fail or they will make it . but as it stands now raids with all its problems is not even worth bothering with at all .

Bad players will still remain bad players if they do not want to take effort. The removal of DPS meters wouldn’t change anything. On the contrary people will kick more randomly again like before the introduction of meters instead of knowing the one(s) slacking.

right their !!! that is it !! what I mean to say in regards to your post here is this with DPS meters

that is this while I get yes it makes it more faster to get stuff done. and move on

BUT yet makes me wonder where is the fun in all of that together as a whole how does it improve the graphics problem maters ? and make that even any fun at all for any one ? now for what its worth for me that is the one of the few things I just could never get when it comes to the DPS meter use . its reminds me of this .

yes bad players will still be in the game no question . how ever this and kicking other plays does go back to the same problems . thus still making raids not worth doing . and not even fun . when you can go to pve for a half hour and get a lot more fun

if they some how was able to cut that all out and make it fun and work maybe it be worth a try once or twice . just to get the achieve for it . other wise not so much

oh also too thos that yell get gud or get better are noting more than just being super kitten and I put them on the blocked list .

Ayrilana.1396:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

If it’s such a problem, why don’t those players form their own group? Clearly there must be a lot of them if it’s a problem.

Because effort and leadership skills aren’t core tenants of group content /s

wipe out the elitism and the I am so pro thinking like this and take away all dps meters from the game add ons . and make the players use the dps meters in the game the game came with .

and give better rewards and let players of all types of play do the raid . they fail or they will make it . but as it stands now raids with all its problems is not even worth bothering with at all .

Create your own group that play, think, and are as experienced as you. This is what I’ve been telling people to do for years who were upset about skipping and speed runs in dungeons.

yes I can do that easy but. something I find as much pain filled as the currently game problems and salt problems that are in the game .

even tho I know many will not agree . but yet in some small way I can see if they put hero’s in the game like they did for guild wars. it could fix a lot of problems and salt making it more easy for all to do raids how they please . and every one happy and not only that but if you wanted to do it with real people instead of the heros you could do that still too .

otherwise it just goes back to the current salt pain filled problem currently on going

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

thus still making raids not worth doing . and not even fun . when you can go to pve for a half hour and get a lot more fun

I don’t know man. I have a lot of fun in raiding and raids are worth for me in terms of gold, social interaction with other team members and progress towards ingame items. That’s why I was looking for a static group – the best decision you can do if you want to raid on a regular basis.

Vinceman.4572:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

thus still making raids not worth doing . and not even fun . when you can go to pve for a half hour and get a lot more fun

I don’t know man. I have a lot of fun in raiding and raids are worth for me in terms of gold, social interaction with other team members and progress towards ingame items. That’s why I was looking for a static group – the best decision you can do if you want to raid on a regular basis.

that is good news to hear and all glad your enjoying it . and that is just it tho part of my point as well .

the only reason I even have to raid at all is anet tied mastery’s to this . forcing you to get them to do them . had they not even done that their would be no need at all for me to even think about raiding no matter the rearwards or social interaction

as when I play the game I keep all chats whispers off and do not use chat apps at all. and take the game for what it is . while enjoying the music but that is just me .

the fact mastery’s points are even tried to this that I will never understand . even more so given all it,s problems and the need for add on,s and use of DPS meters . just never got that stuff never will.

can do all the other stuff in the game with no problem what so ever at all. and like I said why anet ever got it in it,s mind to put mastery points with raids . I never will get that is just as bad as the salt in the game it,s self .

Locking HoT spirit shard gain behind the raid mastery is certainly not brilliant, but afaik it was originally designed in a way that experience gain after maxing out masteries generally yielded nothing. Only after changing that, raid masteries became a (minimal) issue. If someone is so desperate to max out all masteries, just buy some random kill or do escort once. It’s not as if that was particularly difficult.