Guild Wars 2

Ok so some people like it some people don’t, why? cuz thtas how they rolle dthe game in the beggining, and we dont like change… for hadcore gamers will be a lot more accomplishing and for casual gamers will be detrimental to their experience. as stated in these forums… my solution…

Expand the party capacity! I dont mind the no Wp-rush, but for certain dungeons, or for certain kinds of players it is tough…. really tough…. specially if they have little dungeon experience….

If party capacity is increased to a maximum of 8, minimum 5, that way if u wanna be the ill do it all with my 4 buddies then its fine props for u, u sir are a pro… but for the casual gamer in parties of 8 would be more doable, and more fun, cuz then one could account for all the non wp-rezzing, since 2 or 3 players can kite, and the others rez… and im thinking in terms of the casual gamer who is not obssesed over every stat, and armor upgrade…

hell i wouldnt mind if loot was accomodated so that if 5 go in theres more, if 8 go in theres less… im just concerned with the casual dungeon playability, and how it has been affected.

remember peeps this is a game that should appeal to everyone, not just the hard core gamer…

Err, or just learn how not to die. Start by using dodge once in a while. They really should add a more challenging mode. Killing subject alpha within 1 minute isn’t really fun =/

my point exactly, u seem like an elite player… keep the dungeons hard, effin hard, hell double the mobs, and add agony to the bosses for all i care… but expand capability of dungeon parties, so unexperienced people have a shot too… im all for a democratic game, wheres theres fun for all

Everything would need to be rebalanced.

If I use one example. I run a support elementalist. My job is condition cleansing, combo field might and fury stacking, whilst providing AoE Weakness and Blinds to enemies. I can only do this so much by myself, and if someone else wanted to role another support elementalist in my party, that’d be cool. But that would leave only 3 people to DPS…

If we start expanding party sizes, we could get our second support elementalist and not loose any DPS. Things like healing rain with condition cleansing traits could be up 100% of the time (in theory) with an expanded party, with no loss to the current DPS a standard 5 man (balanced) party would have. Although your idea is nice in theory, every single ability, trait, cooldown period would have to be reworked with the 8 man balance in mind.

I think they should make more dungeons with mechanics like the mini dungeons for casual players and leave current dungeons for players looking for heavily coordinated groups. The mini dungeons don’t have a player limit and involve more non-combat interactions (i.e. a special torch that lets you see in a very dark dungeon and scares away mobs). However, their rewards are pretty much the chests you get at the end of a jumping puzzle.

Elite players use dodge to exploit bosses, that’s what I get from your previous statements.

how come then we slay dragons in 50+ mobs? buff the bosses and mobs to account for more players… its easier to modify the boss stats than to rework the balance system

Erebus.3897:

how come then we slay dragons in 50+ mobs? buff the bosses and mobs to account for more players… its easier to modify the boss stats than to rework the balance system

Did you seriously bring open world example into dungeon discussion?

To me, fun and a sense of pride over defeating a boss comes from good team play, not from the ability of every single person to stay alive on their own and dish out maximum damage.

Take an MMO like WoW. Bosses are fun because they required a combination of players/classes with different utilities they bring to the party to make it past every phase of encounters. Only with a sense of “care for others” were you able to be successful.

In GW2 its all about being on your own, even though you are grouped in a team. Long cooldowns on utilities, 1 hit mechanics of bosses, pretty much no dedicated phases or mechanics of encounter other than “run around and hit hard” with negligible variations of that team (oh no the shaman bubbled up, so instead of spaking him really hard and evading his fire arrow now we have to spank him really hard and evade the elementals! woohoo).

The whole design of skills of almost every class seems focussed on self-survival and self-utility, instead of providing group-play focussed benefits. I’d like to see designers go back to the drawing table.

4 players can handle the last boss, so 6 players is gonna be overkill unless they are unskilled.

Why did wp-zerging happen in the first place:

1. people do not help rez when ppl are downed, they just let them die and run back. when someone is downed it is EVERYONES responsibility to get them back up ASAP. now you have agro, this may mean moving the boss away from the dead ppl to make it easier, everyone else should be on them rez very fast = no dead = no problem

2. people need to actually learn the fights(what the bosses do, and what they visual q is for it), learn how to stay alive (dodge, utility skills, weapon sets, build adjustments), and be willing to make these changes (weapons and utilities sometimes change for each boss in the dung)

They are really not that hard if you pay attention and care enough to learn how to run the dung. Most of the time you have 2-3 seconds (a decent amount of time) to see the skill and dodge (in many cases the window of when you can dodge to avoid skils is very wide also, but sometimes it does require timing which will depend on your computer and connection to figure out the exact wait before dodge)

haviz.1340:

Erebus.3897:

how come then we slay dragons in 50+ mobs? buff the bosses and mobs to account for more players… its easier to modify the boss stats than to rework the balance system

Did you seriously bring open world example into dungeon discussion?

to make a point of more players over a single boss, not that the mechanics resemble at all… but expanding parties IS a possibility… that remains my point

Erebus.3897:

how come then we slay dragons in 50+ mobs? buff the bosses and mobs to account for more players… its easier to modify the boss stats than to rework the balance system

Open world design isn’t intended to teach you focused team play the way a dungeon does. In the open world, you’re mostly winning through overwhelming numbers and stuff like dodging or checking for cues are meaningless. In dungeons, you’re limited to five players, so you have to manage skill use, utilize team synergy, keep your allies up, etc.

Erebus.3897:

How come then we slay dragons in 50+ mobs? buff the bosses and mobs to account for more players… its easier to modify the boss stats than to rework the balance system

to make a point of more players over a single boss, not that the mechanics resemble at all… but expanding parties IS a possibility… that remains my point

Have you ever seen a large scale dynamic event fail? I haven’t. I would argue there are extreme balance issues with the open world dynamic events. If they’re going to add large scale dungeon groups that are going to be as easy and imbalanced as open world dragon events then I don’t see why they don’t just hand the gear out for free and skip the middle man.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the large scale dynamic events, but they’re for fun. If they want to add more, great. But keep it open world and imbalanced rather than in a dungeon.

Lightrayne.7829:

Open world design isn’t intended to teach you focused team play the way a dungeon does. In the open world, you’re mostly winning through overwhelming numbers and stuff like dodging or checking for cues are meaningless. In dungeons, you’re limited to five players, so you have to manage skill use, utilize team synergy, keep your allies up, etc.

Exactly.

man i know how to play dungs… my point remains from what ive seen both in the forums and in my guild (which is comprised of people of all levels), and how the update was detrimental to their experience.

If you’ve taken the time to get a toon to 80, chances are you know what stats you want in your armor, how to dodge attacks from bosses, and all the quirks and whatnot from at least 3-4 dungs… dont let Magg die, troll vs Kohler if available, take an ele with portals to CM, etc…

Im not talking about us who have grinded and farmed in hopes of crafting a legen… or do 4 CoF runs a day to get a kewl skin for a pair of better statted pauldrons; im reffering to the 9-5er who has a job and a family and logs in twice or thrice a week to have fun with buddies…. you know the bread and butter of what will keep this game alive.

yup wpzerging was awful, glad they fixed it… now make it so that everyone can enjoy it… and no that “n00bs will be n00bs” attitude wont help anyone… its about coming up with solutions to a general discontent… mine is just an idea

Towren.1745:

Erebus.3897:

How come then we slay dragons in 50+ mobs? buff the bosses and mobs to account for more players… its easier to modify the boss stats than to rework the balance system

to make a point of more players over a single boss, not that the mechanics resemble at all… but expanding parties IS a possibility… that remains my point

Have you ever seen a large scale dynamic event fail? I haven’t. I would argue there are extreme balance issues with the open world dynamic events. If they’re going to add large scale dungeon groups that are going to be as easy and imbalanced as open world dragon events then I don’t see why they don’t just hand the gear out for free and skip the middle man.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the large scale dynamic events, but they’re for fun. If they want to add more, great. But keep it open world and imbalanced rather than in a dungeon.

Lightrayne.7829:

Open world design isn’t intended to teach you focused team play the way a dungeon does. In the open world, you’re mostly winning through overwhelming numbers and stuff like dodging or checking for cues are meaningless. In dungeons, you’re limited to five players, so you have to manage skill use, utilize team synergy, keep your allies up, etc.

Exactly.

expanding party by 2 or 3 the people hardly classifies as LARGE scale dungeon raid…

Erebus.3897:

expanding party by 2 or 3 the people hardly classifies as LARGE scale dungeon raid…

But it does completely imbalance abilities such as condition cleansing, might stacking, AoE Weakness stacking, Blinds, reviving etc, I made this clear in an example in the first response I made.

From the official website’s description of dungeons:

“Dungeons in Guild Wars 2 reward players who enjoy organized parties, epic challenges, and delving deeper into the secrets of Tyria.”

From this, their philosophy seems that dungeons aren’t meant to cater the casuals at all. That’s why I think that the current mini dungeons (forsaken halls/vexa’s lab) are the best design for players that don’t want more depth in 5-man PvE team play like the current dungeon content. If you play those mini dungeons yourself, you’ll probably agree to some extent.

+1 Erebus.3897.

Talking to the “L2P you kitten noob” crowd sometimes feels like talking to a wall. While its being painted. Black. With Acrylic. ;-)

Cater to the 9-5 crowd by implementing fun challenges doable in masterwork/rare gear, without spending hours upon hours in poorly designed dungeons without a chance of a real reward at the end. (Yes, the 9-5 crowd will only do one dungeon run per night, so collecting 1800 tokens for a full set of armor will required them to do the same thing for a year).

Then cater to the elite crowd by implementing really hard challenges (Hard mode dungeons?) and give them something to use for bragging (maybe a special player title?).

nicbet.1820:

+1 Erebus.3897.

Talking to the “L2P you kitten noob” crowd sometimes feels like talking to a wall. While its being painted. Black. With Acrylic. ;-)

Cater to the 9-5 crowd by implementing fun challenges doable in masterwork/rare gear, without spending hours upon hours in poorly designed dungeons without a chance of a real reward at the end. (Yes, the 9-5 crowd will only do one dungeon run per night, so collecting 1800 tokens for a full set of armor will required them to do the same thing for a year).

Then cater to the elite crowd by implementing really hard challenges (Hard mode dungeons?) and give them something to use for bragging (maybe a special player title?).

Full armour is 1380 tokens and you’ll get it after 20 runs.