Some clarification on dungeon class balance
Imo, because those people refuse to accept their class “isnt as good” as the other 3 you mentioned, simply because they can complete a run like the rest of us, even if it takes longer. If you goto one of the “lesser wanted” class forums, there will be fanbois defending it left and right as if their class is the trinity
I’ll summarize what I’ve already said in similar threads here. The so called OP team of zerker war / guard / mesmer is only OP at speed running content in a highly organized group dedicated to this kind of gameplay.
The 4 zerkers war + 1 mesmer is only viable at speed farming easy content such as the popular CoF1 farming spot.
Don’t worry about playing an ele, you’ll be welcome in most Pugs anyway, and if a group insist on kicking you out, don’t worry either, take the next one, you won’t be missing anything for avoiding these parties.
Amelia Ivardottir — Falconeer (Greatsword & Bows Ranger) — Volcanus
Emmeline Ivardottir — Duelist (Sword & Focus Mesmer) — Sunrise / The Anomaly
Emmeline Ivardottir — Duelist (Sword & Focus Mesmer) — Sunrise / The Anomaly
i can tell you the following.
In dungeon you often need to have high dps, survivability and support.
There are classes that can easily achieve 2 or even all 3 of them (mostly warriors and guardians)
Classes that can achieve easily 2 at a time (mesmers for example)
Classes that cannot achieve any :/
Ele is quite strange….he has access to at least 2 of them (not dps due to unreliablility of his Attacks) but not at the same time.
Those are mostly tied to weaponsets so you have to know what is about to happen before you face any battle.
-Focus/scepter has long antiprojectile uptime, paired with decent dps only if opponent is stationary.
-D/D has decent dps on moving targets but you have to stand really near your targets and that is not Always possible…expecially since most things will 1shot you.
-Staff has a huge range…..dps is quite low due mostly to unreliabale skills and long cooldowns.
learn when and where to use each and you are almost as good as a guardian…
You’ll still lack dps of some other classes that lets you clear threats fast.
After all dugeon are all about knowing what to do before the battle starts ….that is why first time they are nighly impossible and after lot of times they become somehow easy….
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Why do people seem more angry about class discrimination rather than the profession-balance issue that causes it.
My take? Because it doesn’t matter if you’re a full warrior/mesmer/guardian group, if you don’t understand the content and can play around it, you’ll still get stomped. The people insisting you be one of those classes and implying you’d be better and more efficient as one instead of some other chosen profession has no ground since it doesn’t matter. You picked necromancer (or whatever) so how much more effective you’d be as w/m/g doesn’t matter.
Also, the developers are working on improving the professions’ various build options so it’s not like people aren’t concerned with balance as much as discrimination. It’s just that part falls on the community’s hands to change, not particularly the developers.
You can clear any dungeon using any setup, but when you want efficiency, certain professions are better, depending on the dungeon (I’m including fractals). The post above me explains an example.
It’s really all about intent and optimizing for that intent. Does the group want to clear as fast as possible? Does the group simply just want people and skip mobs for a casual speed clear? This is where players will filter for professions.
Just play your profession as best as you can, helping your team as much as possible. I play every profession in CoF (because it’s popular among PuGs), working with as many different combinations of groups as possible (professions, skill level, etc.). It helps me learn the profession’s role in the dungeon and how to adapt to any kind of team. When I want to do dungeons more seriously and efficiently, I have my own dungeon crew I can do stuff with.
If the limit of what you want to do is a casual speed clear, you have nothing to worry about, but if you’re trying to get into something like a CoF money farm, you’re likely dealing with optimal preferences. Casual speed clear groups just want to farm the daily tokens and get a decent amount of coin, so they’re happy as long as they have cooperative people and get the run done. Dungeon farmers are pretty much heavily in it for the rewards, so they want nothing but the best — no room for mistakes, screwing around, subpar professions, etc.
The elementalist, in my experience, is one of the best professions that work very well with dungeon teams. You can stack might (and other relevant boons) quickly, have access to many AoEs (damage, snares, heals, disables), and can easily cleanse conditions from teammates.
I’m an elementalist myself and from my experience i can tell you that team you mentioned is almost only efficient in CoF p1 speedruns. In every other dungeon (except HotW or other dps test bosses) that require at least some amount of skill the class setup is not needed.
It’s way more important to watch for traitlines like a 5 man condition spamming team is completely useless. I’d also advise you not to run CM if you don’t have projectile block support abilities. It really comes down to what you need for that dungeon. CoF isn’t hard at all and the 4 zerker + mes team is the one with the highest possible dps currently. The very same team will have a very hard time in CoE, CM, Arah, ….
for arah3 the cof1 team is almost optimal
Same can be said for fotm 30+…add just a guardian.
The most the content becomes hard the most skilled players learns to avoid damage, but to risk less mistakes (and to pass certain parts) you need dps.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
I haven’t actually started running dungeons yet in Guild Wars 2, but in I’ve always been an avid PvE player in any mmo I’ve played. And it didn’t take long on these forums to know that War, Mes, Guard are the best classes in dungeons.
The thing I’m confused about is that most posts I see talk about class discrimination in PuGs, and the annoyances that come with that. A lot of people seem to respond with things like “ignore those groups” or “play with you’re friends/guildies” and the like. From the posts I’ve seen there hasn’t been many signs that there is a lot of outrage over the fact that there are 3 classes that far outpace every other class in dungeon viability (as opposed outrage over getting passed over in PuGs because of your class).
Am I just missing something? Because it really sounds like there is a pretty horrible issue with the class balance that people aren’t angry enough about. My current highest character is an Ele, and while they aren’t known for being the worst in dungeons, in makes me nervous to think that I’ll be having an unnecessarily hard time in dungeons compared to other professions. And while you might say not to worry about speed runs and such, I actually like being able to perform in some sort of optimum capacity when I’m doing PvE.
TL;DR Haven’t gotten into GW2 dungeons yet. Why do people seem more angry about class discrimination rather than the profession-balance issue that causes it.
Feel free to disregard me if I’m just being an idiot.
Knowing the mechanics and gear/build matters alot more than your profession.
Obviously there are some builds and professions that rise above others but it doesn’t really matter as you can do any dungeon with any combination of professions fairly easily as long as the team is experienced and geared. (Except maybe high fotm, where a guard and/or mes helps alot.)
(edited by DeathPanel.8362)
TL;DR Haven’t gotten into GW2 dungeons yet. Why do people seem more angry about class discrimination rather than the profession-balance issue that causes it.
Because part of the comunity thinks it’s a issue with L2P and not a class balance problem. There’s alot of legitimates complains about how subpar or how broken some traits are on determined classes, but those are quickly dismissed by the elitism saying that you have to learn to play and use the trait x and y instead for “optimum” results. Thus creating the discrimination towards someone that doesn’t run build x or y.
The other part of the comunity are waiting for the balance, promesed by devs since the betas(IE: Ranger) and fixes for the bugs that hinders others(IE:Engs).
marnick.4305: “Just because you went down last
doesn’t mean you’re the best player in the group
it means the enemies considered you a low priority.”
doesn’t mean you’re the best player in the group
it means the enemies considered you a low priority.”
My main is a zerk warrior (fully ascended now besides earrings) since I started this game and let me clarify something.
Multiple times I ran CoF 1 with this combination:
1x mesmer phantasm build, doesn’t portal at the flaming boulders.
1x guardian support somewhat dps build hammer user only (i think he uses 1h sword and shield as alternate)
1x Ranger Condition build, Longbow and GS/1h (he changes the melee combination)
1x Ele d/d zerker
1x myself a zerk warrior. Rotation build
and we have cleared CoF 1 around 7min.
Find better party members is all I can say and don’t get caught up in the zerk warriors 1 mes party bs. Blame yourself if you get depressed about it.
I’m an elementalist myself and from my experience i can tell you that team you mentioned is almost only efficient in CoF p1 speedruns. In every other dungeon (except HotW or other dps test bosses) that require at least some amount of skill the class setup is not needed.
It’s way more important to watch for traitlines like a 5 man condition spamming team is completely useless. I’d also advise you not to run CM if you don’t have projectile block support abilities. It really comes down to what you need for that dungeon. CoF isn’t hard at all and the 4 zerker + mes team is the one with the highest possible dps currently. The very same team will have a very hard time in CoE, CM, Arah, ….
Actually no. The fastest runs I have ever done CoE, Arah and other dungeons such as SE, TA are : 4 Warriors/1 Mesmer or Warrior/Mes/Guard.
You assume wrong. Condition damage is ALWAYS useless in PvE. Not just 5 condition damage teams. This is why necros are bad.
My main core team (4war/1mes or 5 war) brings down alpha in under a minute. Even if we dont even dodge, and just sit and 100b, he will die before we do. How is that having a hard time again vs your team who probaly takes 5 minutes?
Don’t worry, just enjoy the content, like you said yourself – just ignore the elitist, who refuse to take one or another class/build with them, you’re better off in any case as those “elite” groups are often quick to quit/kick/rage or whatever when something goes wrong.
Classes are balanced enough that while you may wanna adjust your solo pve build a little, you’ll still do just fine after a few attempts.
I’ll summarize what I’ve already said in similar threads here. The so called OP team of zerker war / guard / mesmer is only OP at speed running content in a highly organized group dedicated to this kind of gameplay.
The 4 zerkers war + 1 mesmer is only viable at speed farming easy content such as the popular CoF1 farming spot.
Don’t worry about playing an ele, you’ll be welcome in most Pugs anyway, and if a group insist on kicking you out, don’t worry either, take the next one, you won’t be missing anything for avoiding these parties.
You can run high level fractals fine with 4 zerker warriors and 1 mesmer…. stop misleading people. The biggest factor to dying is not dodging at the right times and not coordinating abilities/aoe.
snip
You assume wrong. Condition damage is ALWAYS useless in PvE. Not just 5 condition damage teams. This is why necros are bad.
This.
Anet has Condition damage users screwed over big time when it comes to PvE content. Whether it’s teammates making each others damage obsolete or just outright not providing any damage at all to environmental objects, having more than one condition damage spec’d person in your team is redundant. Even when facing Bosses it’s effectiveness is reduced, sadly. I think fixing condition damage will provide a nice blanket fix for all the classes.
This stuff happens for every game and nearly impossible to avoid. Players will always try to find the most efficient way to do things and in a way create new holy trinity.
I can only pray my favorite class is the flavor of the month on the next patch.