Guild Wars 2

Any chance we could get more fights requiring groups to spread out and…play? I know many are perfectly content with the whole “equip full berserker, stack, buff, reflect, and chain rez or rally from downed state until mobs die” thing, but that gets old. Unfortunately most people and groups expect this type of play now.

It would be great to see some mechanics that amplify mob outgoing damage based on closer proximity, even with trash mob fights. This would require some people to actually fight at range. Some of the most fun I’ve had in game were during difficult fights that required dodging and awareness. Now, nearly everything is trivialized by stacking.

I believe it’s nursing a complacent, less-skilled player base. Stacking and LoSing aren’t what dungeons should be about. Many of the LFG ads reflect the stack-to-win mentality that dominates dungeons. This was copied from a screenshot this morning:

“P1&3 / Ping ZERK or kick / EXP only / No necro, engie, ranger.”

Obviously ads like this have been around for awhile, but I still get disgusted by them. Unfortunately the current standard of dungeon combat does nothing except to promote ads like this.

Another one of these… Fun!

1) You can advertise your own party. If this is how you want to fight, then DO IT!
2) If you are asking the dungeon community, I must say you will not like your responses.
3) If you’re asking the devs, you’re wasting your time
4) You’re mainly just wasting your time either way.

Tbh I advertise for no rangers, necros, or thieves. I like engis.

That’s really all I have to say on this haha

I support OP’s thinking, since there is really no diversity anymore.

However, players are now just playing it in for rewards. If a group could just bravado all the way to the boss just to avoid fights, or if they could buy a massive drill to drill walls up to the boss, or if they could parkour all the way to the boss, they’ll do it and scream “gimme stuff” to the boss.

Fun in GW2 = having BiS/tons of gold/flashy things. The thrill is out. :p

LittleLepton.8915:

Tbh I advertise for no rangers, necros, or thieves. I like engis.

That’s really all I have to say on this haha

Haha, says a woman asking for best necro dungeon build ;-)

What’s your issue with thieves? I just make sure they aren’t camping sbow.

LittleLepton.8915:

Tbh I advertise for no rangers, necros, or thieves. I like engis.

That’s really all I have to say on this haha

This is exactly the attention this thread needs. Post your current favorite elitest LFG messages!

Hey now, a necro for my hubby and a necro for some body else is completely different. I just don’t like thieves,

Hearte.6852:

LittleLepton.8915:

Tbh I advertise for no rangers, necros, or thieves. I like engis.

That’s really all I have to say on this haha

This is exactly the attention this thread needs. Post your current favorite elitest LFG messages!

Yes, lets tell people they have no right to tell people how to play as we tell them they have to let us play with them.

Why would you want to spread out?

You need to be near other people to get them up if they go down
combo fields encourage close proximity play
you can dodge while you are stacked, in fact you are SUPPOSED to
If stacking is bad, then so is ranging and kiting

there is no real punishment for clumping up, and don’t expect any dungeon over hauls the deves are too busy planning what Scarlet will do next.

Also see Ethic’s first post

/thread over

Hearte.6852:

I know many are perfectly content with the whole “equip full berserker, stack, buff, reflect, and chain rez or rally from downed state until mobs die” thing, but that gets old. Unfortunately most people and groups expect this type of play now.

This is called learning and I am proud that this is now being expected. I think this is the evolution of players getting better and demanding better of others around them so that everyone improves.

Hearte.6852:

It would be great to see some mechanics that amplify mob outgoing damage based on closer proximity, even with trash mob fights. This would require some people to actually fight at range.

Wait what!? you want people to fight at range? You know you deal less damage at ranged. I am starting to think you just want content to take longer.

Hearte.6852:

Some of the most fun I’ve had in game were during difficult fights that required dodging and awareness. Now, nearly everything is trivialized by stacking.

That’s because it’s faster and safer. Another comment that seems like you want content to take longer.

Hearte.6852:

I believe it’s nursing a complacent, less-skilled player base. Stacking and LoSing aren’t what dungeons should be about.

I think the exact opposite is happening. Players are getting so skilled to the point of having dungeons simplified to their basics and treat them as simple content that is completed quickly. Possibly they are becoming idiot savants but still they excel in at least some aspect of the game and they can take joy in that.

Hearte.6852:

…Obviously ads like this have been around for awhile, but I still get disgusted by them. Unfortunately the current standard of dungeon combat does nothing except to promote ads like this.

This sounds like a group of players who have expectations on their allies and if you don’t want to measure up to another player you are always welcome to form your own group and place stipulations or not.

Also I know you were probably in a heated emotional state when posting this, but please when posting on the forums try using the search for other topics that may have been recently posted. I have seen this same feeling towards dungeons as you have stated many many times before. You will find more than enough opinions of those who agree and don’t agree. Previous there have been Red posts where they suggested forming a guild of like minded players to run dungeons in a specific way. I would suggest for specifying how you want to run the dungeon in a lfg post and go with others who want to do it the same way. Best of luck!

MastaNeenja.1537:

Why would you want to spread out?

You need to be near other people to get them up if they go down
combo fields encourage close proximity play
you can dodge while you are stacked, in fact you are SUPPOSED to
If stacking is bad, then so is ranging and kiting

there is no real punishment for clumping up, and don’t expect any dungeon over hauls the deves are too busy planning what Scarlet will do next.

Also see Ethic’s post

/thread over

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

Hearte.6852:

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

Skill-less? There are many cases where if you don’t have competent players using blinds/aegis/reflects then the group is torn apart. In some cases, stacking does trivialize a fight, but to say the entire play style is skill-less is not true.

Hearte.6852:

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

Nobody cares about projectile finishers. Actually more blast finishers can be done in melee (stacking) than ranged (spreading out). What’s the point of an AOE blast finisher when you’re the only one in the field? I haven’t heard of pet/illusion finishers, so that is moot.

The current system does need to be changed. However, not in this way. Many instances stacking makes it harder, but shorter if done correctly.

If you would have taken the time to look into other threads before spewing out the same comments, you can see most people complain that their PUGs stack and then wipe, like on AC spider boss.

Another good example is CoE p1. I was teaching new players in the guild how to do the alpha. Once they all died and I was soloing him, I had them watch the boss mechanics and explained his attacks, telling them to dodge on this one or side step on this one. Next fight was flawless and they said knowing the boss mechanics helped immensely.

Ethics.4519:

….. they said knowing the boss mechanics helped immensely.

Imagine that… Knowledge is power.

Ethics.4519:

Hearte.6852:

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

Nobody cares about projectile finishers. Actually more blast finishers can be done in melee (stacking) than ranged (spreading out). What’s the point of an AOE blast finisher when you’re the only one in the field? I haven’t heard of pet/illusion finishers, so that is moot.

The current system does need to be changed. However, not in this way. Many instances stacking makes it harder, but shorter if done correctly.

If you would have taken the time to look into other threads before spewing out the same comments, you can see most people complain that their PUGs stack and then wipe, like on AC spider boss.

Another good example is CoE p1. I was teaching new players in the guild how to do the alpha. Once they all died and I was soloing him, I had them watch the boss mechanics and explained his attacks, telling them to dodge on this one or side step on this one. Next fight was flawless and they said knowing the boss mechanics helped immensely.

Illusion whirl/leap/projectile finishers…ranger pet finishers…but since you haven’t heard of them, they obviously don’t exist.

Yes, there are rare exceptions to stacking, but they are not the rule.

I give up. I’ll leave this forum to the elitists one-upping each other. Enjoy!

Tree.3916:

Ethics.4519:

….. they said knowing the boss mechanics helped immensely.

Imagine that… Knowledge is power.

Right, people think that stacking is the only strategy (like OP) who don’t realize that it matters what you do in the stack. If you have a ranger that puts down his healing skill before the eles fire field, the fight will be much, much worse.

Play fractals. Still some stacking for trash, but much more spread out play in general.

Hearte.6852:

Illusion whirl/leap/projectile finishers…ranger pet finishers…but since you haven’t heard of them, they obviously don’t exist.

Yes, there are rare exceptions to stacking, but they are not the rule.

I give up. I’ll leave this forum to the elitists one-upping each other. Enjoy!

Please call me an elitist i’ve yet to be referred to as one, i feel like i’m missing out on that badge.

MastaNeenja.1537:

Light, cure condition with projectile, or retaliation with blast. the projectile finisher would actually be more useful in PVE. so points for that one

…

So we agree that blast finishers are primary a melee mechanic which is most effective while stacking. Blast finishers as i have shown are generally more helpful than projectile finishers.

I would like to point out that a guardian running GS could simply whirl to do the same. So even though the projectile would be better than blast, whirl (stacking melee) would be best.

Ethics.4519:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Light, cure condition with projectile, or retaliation with blast. the projectile finisher would actually be more useful in PVE. so points for that one

…

So we agree that blast finishers are primary a melee mechanic which is most effective while stacking. Blast finishers as i have shown are generally more helpful than projectile finishers.

I would like to point out that a guardian running GS could simply whirl to do the same. So even though the projectile would be better than blast, whirl (stacking melee) would be best.

You Sir are correct! I didn’t want to overwhelm OP as I just did a huge info dump I was trying not to get into other finishers or specific class examples.

Maybe a bit off topic, but I haven’t really see that many zerker only/ping gear since CoF farm nerf, and no [insert classes]/heavy only pop up rarely once a while(and mostly just against ranger). I do see experience only quite often, but frankly that’s not too much to ask for, nor does that reflect “stack-to-win” mentality.

I honestly think OP just exaggerating, most of ads on LFG tool just show which path people are going to take.

As for stacking, if you don’t like the easy way, there will always be a hard way, you just need your team buy into that.(or die trying and let your team carry you, since most dungeon, aside certain part, can be done by 2-4 men)

LastShot.4762:

As for stacking, if you don’t like the easy way, there will always be a hard way, you just need your team buy into that.(or die trying and let your team carry you, since most dungeon, aside certain part, can be done by 2-4 men)

That’s true, most dungeons can be completed with less than 5 people, that’s why it’s so easy for someone to slip on buy and not realize they were carried.

There’s days were i have such bad pug luck I try to convince my group to just 4-man it.

I think the game just needs mobs with a smarter AI. In GW1 if a mob was taking too much AoE damage they’d stay out of the AoE, I think this game needs some kind of mechanic where if a mob is standing in a dangerous area, it’ll just move back and use ranged attacks.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I think the game just needs mobs with a smarter AI. In GW1 if a mob was taking too much AoE damage they’d stay out of the AoE, I think this game needs some kind of mechanic where if a mob is standing in a dangerous area, it’ll just move back and use ranged attacks.

I could get behind this if that mob didn’t have defiant/unshakable. We could put our CC skills to use like chill/immobilize.

They’d also have to work around certain LOS limitations.

Hearte.6852:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Why would you want to spread out?

You need to be near other people to get them up if they go down
combo fields encourage close proximity play
you can dodge while you are stacked, in fact you are SUPPOSED to
If stacking is bad, then so is ranging and kiting

there is no real punishment for clumping up, and don’t expect any dungeon over hauls the deves are too busy planning what Scarlet will do next.

Also see Ethic’s post

/thread over

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

If you think this system rewards skill-less play, then I’d like you to compare your average pug melee zerker experience to a dungeon guild speed clear experience, go ahead and watch any DnT, LOD, Kr or rT video, then compare to pugs.

See the difference? Yeah, that’s called “skill”.

colesy.8490:

Hearte.6852:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Why would you want to spread out?

You need to be near other people to get them up if they go down
combo fields encourage close proximity play
you can dodge while you are stacked, in fact you are SUPPOSED to
If stacking is bad, then so is ranging and kiting

there is no real punishment for clumping up, and don’t expect any dungeon over hauls the deves are too busy planning what Scarlet will do next.

Also see Ethic’s post

/thread over

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

If you think this system rewards skill-less play, then I’d like you to compare your average pug melee zerker experience to a dungeon guild speed clear experience, go ahead and watch any DnT, LOD, Kr or rT video, then compare to pugs.

See the difference? Yeah, that’s called “skill”.

How could standing in one spot mashing some buttons be skill? :P

Tree.3916:

How could standing in one spot mashing some buttons be skill? :P

Doesn’t every computer game boil down to mashing buttons?

Ethics.4519:

Tree.3916:

How could standing in one spot mashing some buttons be skill? :P

Doesn’t every computer game boil down to mashing buttons?

Don’t be daft! It takes years to get skills like these
in hushed tone quiet fool or they’ll be on to us!

Everybody knows running around a boss in circles like headless chickens shows true skills.

I totally agree with you, but there’s a tiny problem: warriors can’t do their full burst damage if the target is moving (and that’s why GS is probably the worst weapon for a warrior 90% of times), and PvE is all about damage

If you don’t let one of the only useful PvE classes do what they were made to do, well, guess you know the answer. Things get ridiculous when people just think about making money and speed runs – and all that “only zerker lvl 80 full exotic” stuff is the consequence

And actually, stacking can make ressing even harder. Go fight the Spider Queen, and try to stop and res an ally while the boss is constantly attacking the whole group. There’s hardly any reason to stack imo

How could standing in one spot mashing some buttons be skill? :P

Well some people do it better than others :p

All those memories of cof warriors using axe 5 on slave driver, eurghhhh.

I totally agree with you, but there’s a tiny problem: warriors can’t do their full burst damage if the target is moving (and that’s why GS is probably the worst weapon for a warrior 90% of times), and PvE is all about damage

Clearly, that’s why the warrior meta build involves a greatsword.

If you don’t let one of the only useful PvE classes do what they were made to do, well, guess you know the answer. Things get ridiculous when people just think about making money and speed runs – and all that “only zerker lvl 80 full exotic” stuff is the consequence

How are speed runs ridiculous? Some people actually enjoy not spending an eternity killing bosses.

And actually, stacking can make ressing even harder. Go fight the Spider Queen, and try to stop and res an ally while the boss is constantly attacking the whole group. There’s hardly any reason to stack imo

How about you stop doing carebear dungeons and give us a real example of stacking being dangerous? You know, like hunter/crusher and being immobilised, about to be one-shotted. Oh wait, most people who talk about stacking haven’t left AC and COF.

Is he srsly saying.. that ppl should not stack for spider queen… -_-

all is vain.

OP, I assume you don’t play your class melee then? There’s nothing worse in a dungeon than having to chase the boss trying to make attacks hit, because the one that has aggro is running away all the time. Even for normal mobs it takes a lot longer. For attacks where it’s very much necessary to hit all times like HB it’s even more frustrating.

Also, running around doesn’t make the fight harder. All the one shot mechanics are extremely easy to see on most bosses at range. Sure, you could describe the spider queen stack as an exploit, but have you ever done it the normal way? yawn

My only problem with stacking is that in a few cases it is legitimately a exploit.

Other than that, I don’t blame entirely the players, but also the AI of this game:

“Oh look, all these delicious people stacked in the same spot, time to melt them in seconds with my poiso…LOL NO” * spits web attack *

colesy.8490:

Hearte.6852:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Why would you want to spread out?

You need to be near other people to get them up if they go down
combo fields encourage close proximity play
you can dodge while you are stacked, in fact you are SUPPOSED to
If stacking is bad, then so is ranging and kiting

there is no real punishment for clumping up, and don’t expect any dungeon over hauls the deves are too busy planning what Scarlet will do next.

Also see Ethic’s post

/thread over

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

If you think this system rewards skill-less play, then I’d like you to compare your average pug melee zerker experience to a dungeon guild speed clear experience, go ahead and watch any DnT, LOD, Kr or rT video, then compare to pugs.

See the difference? Yeah, that’s called “skill”.

I’d hardly call taking advantage of a poorly designed AI system ‘skill’. There are a small handful of fights that involve skill, but let’s be honest: the bulk of the game is far too simplistic to call a simple understanding of game mechanics ‘skill’.

The prevalence of this attitude (speed and efficiency > everything else) says more about the game’s overall design and direction than the players. I suspect very few people do dungeons for their own sake, this activity just happens to be one of the few decent non-TP related sources of gold.

Rainweaver.7302:

My only problem with stacking is that in a few cases it is legitimately a exploit.

Other than that, I don’t blame entirely the players, but also the AI of this game:

“Oh look, all these delicious people stacked in the same spot, time to melt them in seconds with my poiso…LOL NO” * spits web attack *

Some bosses have different mechanics depending if their target is in melee range or far away. Spider Queen don’t uses the AOE poison if you are in melee range even if you are not stacked, Giganticus Lupicus don’t uses his kick if you are on range. So you can’t do GL in range because you are exploiting one of his abilities.

It seems like every single post about stacking = exploit is just because of the Spider Queen. They really want the first champion of a lvl 35 dungeon to be the most super epic fight in the game.

Nosoyelarty.7268:

Some bosses have different mechanics depending if their target is in melee range or far away. Spider Queen don’t uses the AOE poison if you are in melee range even if you are not stacked, Giganticus Lupicus don’t uses his kick if you are on range. So you can’t do GL in range because you are exploiting one of his abilities.

It seems like every single post about stacking = exploit is just because of the Spider Queen. They really want the first champion of a lvl 35 dungeon to be the most super epic fight in the game.

Except that I never said Spider Queen stacking was an exploit (way to read the post). I mentioned her as an example of what in my opinion is a poor AI design. I’m fine with bosses doing certain attacks in melee and others in range, but the discrepancy between the efficiency of the two is really something to question. I’d rather the spider use both the web and the poison attacks on both melee and ranged players.

And besides, why can’t people ask for a super epic fight, even if it’s in the first dungeon? An epic fight does not need to be hardcore hard, but challenging and/or exciting, and I’m not sure about you guys, but I definitely don’t find the current Spider Queen’s fight, with the stacking method, enjoyable at all. Plus, being the “first dungeon” is not a parameter for anything. The Cave Troll in AC is harder than a lot of bosses from higher level dungeons.

Back to my original post, I said I consider a few of the current stacking in this game as exploits, not all of them. Exploit because by just doing the mere act of stacking you are nulling one or more of the fight mechanisms/boss abilities that were intended to affect your group. Some examples: (there are probably more)

Colossus Rumble: Stacking nulls his seismic attack

SE P1 golem trio (the “new” stacking spot): Stacking nulls most of their AoEs and attacks

Volkov: Stacking nulls everything he does (that spot has been there since forever and still not fixed)

SE P3 dredge champion duo: Stacking nulls everything they do

Subject Alpha in CoE P1 and P3: Stacking nulls his Teeth of Mordremoth (earth spike thing)

Aetherblade Fractals: Stacking nulls the cannons AoE during the “clear the waves of aetherblades” encounter.

Old Tom: Not sure if the stacking trick still works, but yeah

That being said: when you stack at Spider Queen, you are not nulling an intended attack directed at your group because in theory there wasn’t even such attack, since you didn’t meet the requirements to trigger the poison AoE, so I suppose it’s not an exploit (although I strongly disagree with such design, as I’ve already stated).

Black Box.9312:

colesy.8490:

Hearte.6852:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Why would you want to spread out?

You need to be near other people to get them up if they go down
combo fields encourage close proximity play
you can dodge while you are stacked, in fact you are SUPPOSED to
If stacking is bad, then so is ranging and kiting

there is no real punishment for clumping up, and don’t expect any dungeon over hauls the deves are too busy planning what Scarlet will do next.

Also see Ethic’s post

/thread over

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

If you think this system rewards skill-less play, then I’d like you to compare your average pug melee zerker experience to a dungeon guild speed clear experience, go ahead and watch any DnT, LOD, Kr or rT video, then compare to pugs.

See the difference? Yeah, that’s called “skill”.

I’d hardly call taking advantage of a poorly designed AI system ‘skill’. There are a small handful of fights that involve skill, but let’s be honest: the bulk of the game is far too simplistic to call a simple understanding of game mechanics ‘skill’.

Then get a group of mates together and replicate it yourselves and stop ****ing on people’s efforts unless you can back it up. The difference between organised groups and ‘experienced’ pugs is light and day, and it annoys me when people try to claim the game is skill-less despite the clear skill gap between random pug and obal gandalf solo.

To be honest Idk even what the spider queen looks like. Back before the spot was being used I ranged it just dodging pools because its not hard (yeah, terrible scrub, but even I learned eventually), never got a good look at it because i just targeted and paid attention to red circles while spamming ranged attacks, and then when we fought it legit (whatever that means) in melee all i saw were sparkles of effects, now that the sparkles can be toned down everybody fights in the spot that is hard to see anything will due to how the camera and clipping works.

As for stacking not being intended. Even the Anet employees run the dungeons where stacking is most common, they have to know about the specific spots. When they were highlighting the wallet one of the vids about it showed a large number of tokens from dungeons where its the norm to stack, some even where its expected to get on “can’t hurt me” positions. They put in OBVIOUS spots to LoS or jump onto, some of which wouldn’t take long to delete (they spent time removing the get out of the map stuff in CM, if they thought stacking was bad they would get rid of frost’s rock or the safe box too).

Rainweaver.7302:

That being said: when you stack at Spider Queen, you are not nulling an intended attack directed at your group because in theory there wasn’t even such attack, since you didn’t meet the requirements to trigger the poison AoE, so I suppose it’s not an exploit (although I strongly disagree with such design, as I’ve already stated).

But that wouldn’t make sense, should every boss melee attack hit you when you are ranging? I mean it’s totally fine that boss have range and melee skill sets.

Stacking does not make the game easier (maybe some stacking corner exploit which I haven’t seen yet) it’s only using party to its full potential. If everyone is scattered and I use my aegis, I’m the only one getting, but what happen when the boss hit my ally on the other side? he gets hit. I put a wall down but the boss decide to shot someone else.

In fact stacking is high risk high reward since everyone is getting hit at the same time, which is why it’s important that everyone do their jobs correctly, why do you think so many pugs get wipe at spider? It’s because the guardian is not using aegis before she bite, guardian did not wipe the immobilize/poison/weakness.

Also there is nothing easier in this game than ranging most boss’es, it’s just long and doesn’t use your party potential since buff won’t reach everyone, combo field are rendered useless.

I know that DnT often fight some boss in the middle of the room instead of using a corner and it’s not harder than stacking in a corner, we simply put our self at max melee range in pentagonal shape and melee. I recently tried that in AC at spider queen with some friend and it worked well, feedback first to help get rid of the spider, guardian GS pull, and aegis at the right time. The only moment where corner comes handy is when using FGS rush against a wall.

Guys, tell me more about stacking on alphard being faceroll, I enjoy it.

Btw, they are not exploits. And when referring to exploits, the new terminology is funploits.

Thankyou.

colesy.8490:

Black Box.9312:

colesy.8490:

Hearte.6852:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Why would you want to spread out?

You need to be near other people to get them up if they go down
combo fields encourage close proximity play
you can dodge while you are stacked, in fact you are SUPPOSED to
If stacking is bad, then so is ranging and kiting

there is no real punishment for clumping up, and don’t expect any dungeon over hauls the deves are too busy planning what Scarlet will do next.

Also see Ethic’s post

/thread over

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

If you think this system rewards skill-less play, then I’d like you to compare your average pug melee zerker experience to a dungeon guild speed clear experience, go ahead and watch any DnT, LOD, Kr or rT video, then compare to pugs.

See the difference? Yeah, that’s called “skill”.

I’d hardly call taking advantage of a poorly designed AI system ‘skill’. There are a small handful of fights that involve skill, but let’s be honest: the bulk of the game is far too simplistic to call a simple understanding of game mechanics ‘skill’.

Then get a group of mates together and replicate it yourselves and stop ****ing on people’s efforts unless you can back it up. The difference between organised groups and ‘experienced’ pugs is light and day, and it annoys me when people try to claim the game is skill-less despite the clear skill gap between random pug and obal gandalf solo.

I already did that just today, actually. Ran some stuff with buddies of mine from a major ‘elite’ PvE guild; their tactics primarily revolved around stacking around a corner, using FGS rush into the wall and hoping that the boss didn’t use its one hit kill attack in time.

I wouldn’t consider myself a hardcore gamer by any means, but I’ve been gaming long enough to know the difference between tactics that actually require skill and strategy as opposed to silly gimmicks. Like I said, there are places where such display of skill shines through here, but let’s be honest: the vast majority of the methods used to clear through this game’s PvE content fall within the latter category.

Well i too had the same argument once. Then i took an (legendary farming by dungeon spam) to the knee.

I fought all dungeons legitimately. I dont care to spend hours on a path over again. Damage from foes are too high to non-stack….which leads to double time spent….people downed….i get downed from rezing….everyone dead.

Go FRACTALS. Stacks dont exist there until certain maps where 15 foes rush you.

Black Box.9312:

colesy.8490:

Black Box.9312:

colesy.8490:

Hearte.6852:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Why would you want to spread out?

You need to be near other people to get them up if they go down
combo fields encourage close proximity play
you can dodge while you are stacked, in fact you are SUPPOSED to
If stacking is bad, then so is ranging and kiting

there is no real punishment for clumping up, and don’t expect any dungeon over hauls the deves are too busy planning what Scarlet will do next.

Also see Ethic’s post

/thread over

This post fits perfectly with the mentality that the current system has bred.

Exactly, there is no need to spread out now.

Also, combo fields encourage ranged play as well with projectile/blast finishers, pet/illusion finishers, etc, so that is moot.

Also, if it wasn’t clear, I’m not arguing for strict ranged combat…just to change the current system that rewards skilless play.

If you think this system rewards skill-less play, then I’d like you to compare your average pug melee zerker experience to a dungeon guild speed clear experience, go ahead and watch any DnT, LOD, Kr or rT video, then compare to pugs.

See the difference? Yeah, that’s called “skill”.

I’d hardly call taking advantage of a poorly designed AI system ‘skill’. There are a small handful of fights that involve skill, but let’s be honest: the bulk of the game is far too simplistic to call a simple understanding of game mechanics ‘skill’.

Then get a group of mates together and replicate it yourselves and stop ****ing on people’s efforts unless you can back it up. The difference between organised groups and ‘experienced’ pugs is light and day, and it annoys me when people try to claim the game is skill-less despite the clear skill gap between random pug and obal gandalf solo.

I already did that just today, actually. Ran some stuff with buddies of mine from a major ‘elite’ PvE guild; their tactics primarily revolved around stacking around a corner, using FGS rush into the wall and hoping that the boss didn’t use its one hit kill attack in time.

I wouldn’t consider myself a hardcore gamer by any means, but I’ve been gaming long enough to know the difference between tactics that actually require skill and strategy as opposed to silly gimmicks. Like I said, there are places where such display of skill shines through here, but let’s be honest: the vast majority of the methods used to clear through this game’s PvE content fall within the latter category.

If they’re such a major guild, then name and shame. No speed clearers I know ‘hope’ to fgs rush before dying, they rush, knowing the boss will die before dealing lethal damage to the player wielding it, or they prepare in advance by say, slotting in arcane shield versus lupicus so they can eat a kick should it happen. I can’t even think of many bosses you wall an hope they don’t one shot, it’s almost like you’re keeping your anecdote so cryptic it didn’t actually happen. Here’s my tip, watch alphard and lupicus kills. They don’t require skill? The fact that I can reliably duo (haven’t attempted solo much) alphard is completely skill less? Oh yeah I forgot, hurrrr pve is faceroll, which explains all of the arah buyers and the tryhards running around this forum who try to put down newbies but can’t zerk in a dungeon to save their life.

notabot.3497:

To be honest Idk even what the spider queen looks like. Back before the spot was being used I ranged it just dodging pools because its not hard (yeah, terrible scrub, but even I learned eventually), never got a good look at it because i just targeted and paid attention to red circles while spamming ranged attacks, and then when we fought it legit (whatever that means) in melee all i saw were sparkles of effects, now that the sparkles can be toned down everybody fights in the spot that is hard to see anything will due to how the camera and clipping works.

As for stacking not being intended. Even the Anet employees run the dungeons where stacking is most common, they have to know about the specific spots. When they were highlighting the wallet one of the vids about it showed a large number of tokens from dungeons where its the norm to stack, some even where its expected to get on “can’t hurt me” positions. They put in OBVIOUS spots to LoS or jump onto, some of which wouldn’t take long to delete (they spent time removing the get out of the map stuff in CM, if they thought stacking was bad they would get rid of frost’s rock or the safe box too).

She looks like a spider just to let you know.

Tree.3916:

She looks like a spider just to let you know.

But…. very regal as well.

Ethics.4519:

Tree.3916:

She looks like a spider just to let you know.

But…. very regal as well.

I hope they add her garb to the gem store.

Would make a cool back piece.

I’d take one of her paws (?) as sword or dagger!