Guild Wars 2

Bright.9160:

Lol, LordByron strikes again…

We already know how you try to provoke people its quite common in your post history……no need to repeat….thank you.

For the few times I used PUGs …… to fill a FotM party…….they usually followed directions pretty well……., and stacked/LoS’ed when we told them to,

[/quote]
read what you wrote…..

You consider pug taking one or two slots with a random player and telling them what to do…

No need to answer further posts since intent is not discussing the game……

Vargamonth.2047:

It’s designers work to try to make the AIs as solid as possible.
They will always perform on a scripted way and be “exploitable” up to some degree. They probably will suck at kiting and won’t easily avoid AoEs just by moving (it would be “fun” to see this while a ranger pet burns to death inside a big red circle), that’s why they probably should have higher HP pools than human players.
Design flaws that could have been miss (like wasting interrupts against a shelter or using stunbreakers against 1 sec dazes) can also be solved by patches.
You can even randomize spawns, picking enemies from a pool of 10 or more templates, so a given cheesing tactic can’t be used every single time.

If groups find a way to easily beat those encounters, that’s OK (it probably takes more teamplay that the current fights; just that sounds like a step forward to me). It’s still PvE and there’s no reason to try to exactly replicate PvP (that’s what PvP is for :P), just to make some fight PvP-like in order to improve teamplay and encourage the use of many tools that are currently neglected (because they’re mainly balanced around PvP).

As I said, I would love to experience it at least for once, and I encourage ANet to try to design some fight like this for any upcoming LS patch and see how it works (probably won’t happen because it feels like an insane pugbuster :P).

Once again you described gw1 model. Mobs do move out of AoEs and they do have randomized groups. Gw1 model was initially assuming pve to be a training ground for pvp – three missions in crystal desert were the best example of that.

LordByron.8369:

read what you wrote…..

You consider pug taking one or two slots with a random player and telling them what to do…

No need to answer further posts since intent is not discussing the game……

Mute pugs, I see.

@LordByron
Ive full pugged fotm in the past and taken charge. Most of them listened and followed directions fine. Some didnt even need to be told to stack and los mobs.

Difference is most people can complete fotm fine without stacking. Since more often than not people doing fotm are more experienced player.

I can’t say the same about AC.

LordByron.8369:

haviz.1340:

Who doesn’t stack in fotm?

try to pug once…….99% won t stack.
Or just use youtube….

We know that really few stacks in fotms….that is why fotms are fun..
You don t Always repeat the same actions in the same exact moment.

Ascalon – Stack everything
Hammer- Stack everything exept boss
Grawls- Stack whole begining. After that is stackin hardly possible.
Swamp- One of 2 possible encouters. Stacking hardly possible.
Watter- well it is watter…
Harpies- Not many corners to stack, exept last boss where some stack in corner and use reflections. And stacking when jumping naturaly.
Dredge- Stack stack stack, exept last boss where it is not possible.
Jade maw- If you run you have nothing to stack.

So basicaly everywhere where stacking is possible and makes run easier and faster people stack.

haviz.1340:

Once again you described gw1 model. Mobs do move out of AoEs and they do have randomized groups. Gw1 model was initially assuming pve to be a training ground for pvp – three missions in crystal desert were the best example of that.

I know, I know I’ve several hours invested in GW1.
It still had its AI flaws, like monsters not stop casting spells or attacking while affected by certain curses, so you could wreck/disable large groups just with a well placed skill, and LoS was still there making AoE skills absolutely dominant. Even with that, I still find the model much more engaging and fun than the current one.
It would also be slightly different here since “counter” type skills are not so devastating and we have active defenses instead of healers (a key skill could be avoided and force the group to a plan B ). I honestly think it could work wonders.

daros.3407:

Watter- well it is watter…

You stack behind the statues for the krait pulls too.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

daros.3407:

Watter- well it is watter…

You stack behind the statues for the krait pulls too.

Since I feel like this thread is completely dead and we are aruging the same thing over and over again, I’ll go ahead and derail slightly.

Ive tried to do this 3/4 times and it never works. I have time warped and tried to feedback the posion, but poison almost always lands on us and wipes our group.

How do you get this strat to work?

Feedback seems to work for the poison kraits(i forgot the name) if you do it right. That 2nd underwater pull my lv48 group took no damage at all from then when i used feedback. I don’t know the exact timing, but i use the spear 5 to pull some together, use feedback and timewarp. Haven’t had any problems with that group when my group wasnt full of (low DPS)re/tards.

Emanuel.9781:

Feedback seems to work for the poison kraits(i forgot the name) if you do it right. That 2nd underwater pull my lv48 group took no damage at all from then when i used feedback. I don’t know the exact timing, but i use the spear 5 to pull some together, use feedback and timewarp. Haven’t had any problems with that group when my group wasnt full of (low DPS)re/tards.

Haha, thanks! It seemed like it wasn’ working, but maybe I was just misplacing feedback. I’ll try pulling them in so that feedback is covering the whole group.

I also very much enjoy the term (low DPS)re/tards.

Maybe sometimes you just get unlucky and they decide to poison outside the feedback. Or maybe it doesn’t actually work at all. I can’t confirm anything.

LordByron.8369:

You consider pug taking one or two slots with a random player and telling them what to do…

No need to answer further posts since intent is not discussing the game……

Okay, let’s discuss the game then, since you won’t listen to what I wrote before.

You consider LoS’ing a dumb and broken tactic, and it should be removed from the game?

I’ll give you a little example as to why it is needed. In GW1, there was a part of an elite area called Ravenheart Gloom (one of the 4 areas in the Domain of Anguish). You had a couple of quests that you needed to perform there. The first quest you had to do involved saving a squad of the order of whispers, who were trapped somewhere when they went on a scouting mission. Now, the cave they were hiding in was surrounded by a pretty big mob of enemies. Not only that, but when you approached the NPCs you were trying to save, it triggered 3 waves of 4 groups of each 3 enemies (except that last one, which had 4) that would run towards the cave in quick succession. Of all those enemies I just described, only 7 were melee I seem to recall. Eventually, a tactic was developed that would let you aggro ALL of those enemies (60 or 70+ of hard-hitting MOFO’s) and ball them up, because you would use smart positioning. You know why it worked? Because there was no LoS’ing in GW1. All those enemies would just stand in the little ball you made, and keep hitting the wall. (Here’s a video showing what I mean)

Now imagine LoS’ing not working in GW2 and imagine a projectile-heavy dungeon like Arah. I’m pretty sure that it would only be a matter of time until we figure out how to pull an entire room of enemies, use some pulling techniques, ball them all up nicely, and use AoE/cleave damage to nuke them down instantly.

That’s why LoS is needed.

I like turtles!

tl;dr
BHB

LOS has never been used in an mmo ever

coronaas.4362:

LOS has never been used in an mmo ever

Obviously it has, but only as an exploit used by elitist.

Chessrook.8643:

I really have to ask here, am I the only one who HATES this? Frack am I the only one who is actually trying to have a good time?

..And the rest of the OP content.

Tried running Sorrow’s Embrace earlier. Couldn’t go with any party because I wasn’t stacking or skipping everything but the bosses. When I went to make my own party, people were joining it to kick me out of it, because I didn’t want to skip or stack.

The community has become really toxic about “stacking” and I wish ANet would put an end to it. The skill requirement for the majority of the game is out the window from it, and it doesn’t allow for a good experience for players who have no idea what’s going on. (i.e. getting kicked out without warning.)

Toxic maneuver, filled with toxic players. That’s about all I can say about it.

Necro new meta. That’s the real exploit here.

Lingie.6417:

Chessrook.8643:

I really have to ask here, am I the only one who HATES this? Frack am I the only one who is actually trying to have a good time?

..And the rest of the OP content.

Tried running Sorrow’s Embrace earlier. Couldn’t go with any party because I wasn’t stacking or skipping everything but the bosses. When I went to make my own party, people were joining it to kick me out of it, because I didn’t want to skip or stack.

The community has become really toxic about “stacking” and I wish ANet would put an end to it. The skill requirement for the majority of the game is out the window from it, and it doesn’t allow for a good experience for players who have no idea what’s going on. (i.e. getting kicked out without warning.)

Toxic maneuver, filled with toxic players. That’s about all I can say about it.

Sigh.

You would literally have to redesign every single encounter in every single instance to remove stacking, not even kidding you.

Necromancers should be nerfed – Being able to resurrect something that has been dead for this long is clearly unintended game mechanics.

Lingie.6417:

Tried running Sorrow’s Embrace earlier. Couldn’t go with any party because I wasn’t stacking or skipping everything but the bosses. When I went to make my own party, people were joining it to kick me out of it, because I didn’t want to skip or stack.

The community has become really toxic about “stacking” and I wish ANet would put an end to it. The skill requirement for the majority of the game is out the window from it, and it doesn’t allow for a good experience for players who have no idea what’s going on. (i.e. getting kicked out without warning.)

Toxic maneuver, filled with toxic players. That’s about all I can say about it.

Sorry to hear this, but I think you just got unlucky. There are lots of successful no-skip/stack groups. I’d suggest trying this with like minded guildmates and friends if you can. If you absolutely have to PUG be sure to communicate these requirements via chat. Oh, and open the dungeon yourself first.

And don’t blame the community on this. If you choose to adopt a play style that requires more effort, then forming your parties will also take a bit more time as well.

Lingie.6417:

Chessrook.8643:

I really have to ask here, am I the only one who HATES this? Frack am I the only one who is actually trying to have a good time?

..And the rest of the OP content.

Tried running Sorrow’s Embrace earlier. Couldn’t go with any party because I wasn’t stacking or skipping everything but the bosses. When I went to make my own party, people were joining it to kick me out of it, because I didn’t want to skip or stack.

The community has become really toxic about “stacking” and I wish ANet would put an end to it. The skill requirement for the majority of the game is out the window from it, and it doesn’t allow for a good experience for players who have no idea what’s going on. (i.e. getting kicked out without warning.)

Toxic maneuver, filled with toxic players. That’s about all I can say about it.

I invite you to join me on my next exciting adventure of fully clearing Arah path 4, Sorrows Embrace path 2, and Citadel of Flame path 3.

Oh hey, I guess I can say you failed to bring this dead horse back, eh?

This mentality is a real disease. Stacking is just an excuse for being lazy. Guild Wars 2 was designed with the dodge mechanic in mind; to ignore it is contrary to the whole point of the game.

Holy necro batman.
Please go stack on Lupi/Alpha/Spider queen/Any dungeon boss, and not use dodge once and not die.

Why why why bump this?

If you don’t want to stack don’t party up with people who do it’s that simple. Who the kitten cares how other people play the game it doesn’t effect you.

If stacking in a game gets you all worked up this is a true mental issue and you need to seek professional help.

Gambit.7836:

This mentality is a real disease. Stacking is just an excuse for being lazy. Guild Wars 2 was designed with the dodge mechanic in mind; to ignore it is contrary to the whole point of the game.

Blessed be your soul, uninformed and ignorant as you are. I am merciful, and thus I shall grant you my wisdom:

You can dodge while stacking.

Lindbur.2537:

You can dodge while stacking.

Confirmed exploit.

-GMB

maha.7902:

Lindbur.2537:

You can dodge while stacking.

Confirmed exploit.

-GMB

You can even deal damage while dodging, now that’s taking the exploiting to another level!

P.S.: Necro master race.

Gambit.7836:

This mentality is a real disease. Stacking is just an excuse for being lazy. Guild Wars 2 was designed with the dodge mechanic in mind; to ignore it is contrary to the whole point of the game.

Not stacking, still not dodging, your argument is invalid.
Wethospu is an exploit confirmed

I wonder if you have ever even done a dungeon, or if you even play this game.
If you think you can stack w/o making use of dodges, blocks, stability and blinds you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

When a cleric(sorry, TVH) AH Healing Symbol Hammer Guardian AFK’s and spams 1 it’s a skilled “tank” and “healer”, when a Zerker player makes use of the above mentioned GAME MECHANICS he is exploiting.

But why do I even bother to explain, people like you will never get it otherwise this thread would still be in its grave.

I dont join No skipping/No stacking groups and I don’t care that people play this way.
So why can’t you people do to same? We ignore you, you ignore us…make it clear it your LFG, make a guild, do whatever you want.

one of those again…
ok i feelt motivated to photoshop and this picture hopefully explain that stacking is a normal common tactic in War ….

http://youtu.be/TTYz439cA5w

Stacking such op exploit.

Ha ha I just saw that episode last night, I was going to mention it before I clicked the link. And really who doesn’t want to emulate viking warriors?

spoj.9672:

http://youtu.be/TTYz439cA5w

Stacking such op exploit.

Hahaha, ty, that made my day

spoj.9672:

http://youtu.be/TTYz439cA5w

Stacking such op exploit.

Now THAT was cheesy.

All Vikings proves is that a. Norn with shield are OP, b. Bow ranger’s are useless and c. All Skarsgard brothers (Floki, Eric Northman, and the guy from Hemlock Grove) are fabulous awesome actors.

Mac.3872:

spoj.9672:

http://youtu.be/TTYz439cA5w

Stacking such op exploit.

Now THAT was cheesy.

Thank you, I thought I was the only one thinking that.

Jerus.4350:

Mac.3872:

spoj.9672:

http://youtu.be/TTYz439cA5w

Stacking such op exploit.

Now THAT was cheesy.

Thank you, I thought I was the only one thinking that.

Its quite low budget and some of the actors are a bit meh. But its a pretty good show.

Acotje.5689:

When a cleric(sorry, TVH) AH Healing Symbol Hammer Guardian AFK’s and spams 1 it’s a skilled “tank” and “healer”

Is this a real thing?

Personally I’d just like to see the AI be a little less stupid about all running to the same spot and standing there waiting to eat steel. Locking them down wouldn’t be hard at all for organized groups. I have always been confused why centaur archers in open world will try and keep distance between you and them while no dungeon mob shows that degree of complexity. Except for maybe the scouts in CM seraph path who like to go get friends when they are almost dead.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

Acotje.5689:

When a cleric(sorry, TVH) AH Healing Symbol Hammer Guardian AFK’s and spams 1 it’s a skilled “tank” and “healer”

Is this a real thing?

Personally I’d just like to see the AI be a little less stupid about all running to the same spot and standing there waiting to eat steel. Locking them down wouldn’t be hard at all for organized groups. I have always been confused why centaur archers in open world will try and keep distance between you and them while no dungeon mob shows that degree of complexity. Except for maybe the scouts in CM seraph path who like to go get friends when they are almost dead.

Fyonna does, but hey, there’s a wall behind her.

spoj.9672:

Jerus.4350:

Mac.3872:

spoj.9672:

http://youtu.be/TTYz439cA5w

Stacking such op exploit.

Now THAT was cheesy.

Thank you, I thought I was the only one thinking that.

Its quite low budget and some of the actors are a bit meh. But its a pretty good show.

Aye, it’s a “sci fi show” basically, good story, decent writing, acting/special effects /meh. When I first saw it I actually thought it was on sci fi (i will not spell it the new way) and was a bit surprised when it was on History channel, I thought that was reduced to just 24/7 pawn stars and american pickers.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

Acotje.5689:

When a cleric(sorry, TVH) AH Healing Symbol Hammer Guardian AFK’s and spams 1 it’s a skilled “tank” and “healer”

Is this a real thing?

Personally I’d just like to see the AI be a little less stupid about all running to the same spot and standing there waiting to eat steel. Locking them down wouldn’t be hard at all for organized groups. I have always been confused why centaur archers in open world will try and keep distance between you and them while no dungeon mob shows that degree of complexity. Except for maybe the scouts in CM seraph path who like to go get friends when they are almost dead.

It’d be pretty awesome if a group of mobs “got smart” and when you tried to LoS them they would say “silly people thinking we’d fall for that old trick”

Completely agree with u I hate stacking as well. I do dungeons to have fun and thats the only reason I do them. If I want to make money I go to Silverwaste which gets me a lot more money than a dungeon ever could. People that stack are usually people that cant stay alive without stacking or cant kite or dodge.

Necro kind of strong here.

completely agree with the 2014 stacking meta being so bad

Stupid and pointless necro, but hey, I’ll play with you.

Completely agree with u I hate stacking as well. I do dungeons to have fun and thats the only reason I do them. If I want to make money I go to Silverwaste which gets me a lot more money than a dungeon ever could. People that stack are usually people that cant stay alive without stacking or cant kite or dodge.

1) People who stack don’t have fun? Not everyone has the same preferences as you. If you wish to play in a certain way, you should make it clear in the party description.
2) You make more money in SW because you don’t play well. Even though dungeons are considered by many very easy, they are still more engaging than following a tag and spamming “F”. While it’s true SW is pretty profitable, it is so braindead and boring that a lot of people still prefer to do dungeons to make money.
3) How is running in circles around a boss (or pewpewing it from far away) any more challenging than max meleeing it and dodging most damaging attacks? You do most of your damage in melee, but it acutally requires you to know the encounters unlike range, where you avoid 99% of the damage at the cost of 99% of your DPS.

If you want to play bad, just join (or make) all welcome groups. Don’t complain about how competent groups play, because some people simply want efficiency. Also you should distinguish stacking and LoSing. People stack to share boons, melee enemies and do most damage, be most efficient. LoSing is pretty rare at this point, there are very few places in the game where it makes sense. Mostly it’s just unnecessary waiting for the enemies to come to you, which is done by brainless pugs who simply follow what other players used to do years ago, when there was a point in that.

So I haven’t been playing for a year and started playing again awhile ago, today is the first time I open the dungeon forums after a year or so and I honestly thought someone was using my account while I wasn’t playing.
God kitten that was some high level necro. I’m sort of impressed.

Chessrook.8643:

I really have to ask here, am I the only one who HATES this? Frack am I the only one who is actually trying to have a good time?

Joined three AC dungeons via the LFG tool… each one decided to stack in a tiny corner next to the stairs at the first boss. Didn’t even stay beyond that (Except the first one, who booted me when I wouldn’t join them stacking on the rubble just after the spider) After I realized they weren’t even bothering to split from that, I decided to go to a CM run.

The run started ok. Did the Asura path and were killing things… somewhat well. Aside from three guys deciding to run into a room in range of six mobs instead of sniping down three guys before taking out archers. And skipping Seamus and using the cutscene trick on the guy in the warehouse, fine.

Things started to look bad though when one of the guys started asking for stacking. For every mob. When he said to stack for what’s-her-name (the one who warps around) I stood back and grumbled. Yeah I admit it but kitten, I was bored. I do these dungeons to have fun, not… this.

The final boss though…. again, they decided to do the “stack on a rock” exploit.

Two of them.

The other three of us tried to do it legit. The remaining two simply stood and watched and contributed absolutely nothing until we died, at which point they proceeded to exploit to hell and back, lambasting us the whole way. I didn’t even stay for the reward and just left (Though in hindsight I wish I could have convinced the other two to join me in booting them.).

So I ask you. After all this, am I the ONLY ONE who is actually still trying to have FUN in these dungeons instead of just rushing through everything as fast as fracking possible in the most dull, boring, repetitive, least-effort-requiring way imaginable?

The reason everyone skips Seamus in path 1 is simple. He becomes an ally at 25% and rewards no loot. He’s also a massive pain to fight in that tiny room.

As for the rest of your rant: some people will always seek the most efficient way to do things, even if it’s less “fun.” Dungeons are fun once (OPINION). When you need to run a dungeon 172 times to complete your collection achievement, you seek to do so as quickly and efficiently as possible.

It’s possible to kill Gunpowder Morgan without killing the riflemen on the ledge, but your group needs high reflect uptime to avoid getting noscoped. The cutscene trick just ensures your group can get up on the ledge before the riflemen spawn. (ever been shot by an elite rifleman while moving? It’s an almost guaranteed down in berserker gear)

The next boss doesn’t teleport, but she does stealth. It’s not necessary to stack, but stacking ensures she doesn’t move around while stealthed, allowing your group to continue laying on the DPS.

Regarding Frost: people exploit him because heavy attrition damage (Frost’s main attack) is more difficult to mitigate than burst damage. Berserkers tend to have an especially difficult time with bosses like this.

Tldr: Make your own groups from now on, I guess. I’ll continue stacking and stealth skipping, because I would rather get all three paths done in 30 minutes as opposed to spending 30 minutes per path.

Edit: I didn’t realize just how old this thread was. Joke’s on me I guess.

I’ll just leave this here anyway.