Guild Wars 2

/15charrs15charrs

I almost missed this kind of thread…

Wait, no !

Ah the stacking/skipping thread. Right on time.

zorabro.4893:

its just not fun at all -_-

then stop playing

Joins party without reading lfg, doesnt ask party what strategy they intend to use, doesnt tell party what strategy he prefers, complains when party doesnt read his mind #logic

" ISNT DIFFICULTY TE CHARM OF WHAT MAKES DUNGEONS GREAT TO BLAST THROUGH? GETTING YOUR BUTTS WHOOPED BECAUSE YOU DIDNT PREPARE YOURSELF?"

I think, you should find a different group that fits your strategy. You had enough time to write this, you could have wrote your own LFG by now.

el oh el

Go play skyrim onrine instead, OP

Soo… what seems to be the problem here? I don’t see any.

zorabro.4893:

I don’t care if there is no holy trinity, you have to communicate properly to get passed the next room or boss, not skip and sit in “this” specific corner, and you now have to skip the next set of mobs because “they’re too difficult”

A developer commented quite awhile back about skipping. There simply is no good reward right now to balance the time it takes to kill the trash mobs. People aren’t skipping them because they’re too difficult, they skip because it takes time and you get nigh nothing from it. That time can be spent doing other things. Thus people are also focused on efficiency and speed clearing (stacking + DPS zerker meta).

I am only against skipping and stacking if it’s a teaching situation. I’d want new people to learn how a dungeon was done before super efficient methods became norm, and then show them the more efficient method. That way if something goes wrong, they can fend for themselves and not act like chickens with their heads cut off.

Sera.6539:

I am only against skipping and stacking if it’s a teaching situation. I’d want new people to learn how a dungeon was done before super efficient methods became norm, and then show them the more efficient method. That way if something goes wrong, they can fend for themselves and not act like chickens with their heads cut off.

I wish this view was shared across most dungeon teachers, but alas, the people that taught me the dungeon runs emphasized the parts to skip (i.e. “When we get to this next section, just run past everything and go to safe spot X”)

That’s a shorter way of explaining why skipping is better than killing worthless mobs slowing you down and increasing your chance of failure.

I wonder what happened to good old ‘reading enemie’s tells and controlling their actions’?
Screw that, I guess. Lets all get teachers to tell us what to do!
But what to do if they release new content…?
Oh, nevermind. They’ll never do.

Anet doesn’t care about the dungeon forum.

if this is the future of this game then… theres no reason to go run these dungeons… T_T i went through my 3rd run through the ascolon catacombs (i know i misspelled it) but im doing the same friggin deal in all 3 runs… “Stacking and skipping”. its not the game’s fault its the friggin gamers fault for ruining the fun… laugh as you want… im not having fun i hate to admit that because with everything else, dungeons are not fun because of this exploit. call me a noob for all i care, its just not fun at all -_-

Skipping and stacking are not exploits. If you don’t want to skip and stack, explicitly write in your lfg “no skipping or stacking”. How hard is this? Do you see me writing up threads on how pugs are bad? Of course not, if I want good runs I just find a solution to my problem (inefficient runs) and run with guild instead for nice, smooth runs. Why can’t more people do this? Why do they feel like they should complain rather than actually find a solution for themselves?

I am only against skipping and stacking if it’s a teaching situation. I’d want new people to learn how a dungeon was done before super efficient methods became norm, and then show them the more efficient method. That way if something goes wrong, they can fend for themselves and not act like chickens with their heads cut off.

“Learn how to do it wrong then learn how to do it properly” doesn’t sound like a good way of teaching. It literally serves no purpose. Why would you, for example, teach people how to 1500 range Bloomhunger and then show them the melee way? Wouldn’t it make sense to just show them the melee way?

Whether someone can fend for themselves purely depends on their level of control and initiative, and that’s something you can’t teach. People who can control themselves and keep cool will get through awkward situations, and people who struggle through situations that deviate through their standard rotation will … struggle.

I wish this view was shared across most dungeon teachers, but alas, the people that taught me the dungeon runs emphasized the parts to skip (i.e. “When we get to this next section, just run past everything and go to safe spot X”)

The point of teaching is to help educate people on efficient ways to clear a dungeon. Skipping mobs is efficient. If you have a problem with this, don’t ask for a teacher. I’d rather have someone just flat out kicked from the mentoring guild than teaching “no skipping stacking” methods because that’s not teaching, that’s just imposing your inefficient view on your victims (students) who won’t know any better.

hendo.1940:

if this is the future of this game then… theres no reason to go run these dungeons… T_T i went through my 3rd run through the ascolon catacombs (i know i misspelled it) but im doing the same friggin deal in all 3 runs… “Stacking and skipping”. its not the game’s fault its the friggin gamers fault for ruining the fun… laugh as you want… im not having fun i hate to admit that because with everything else, dungeons are not fun because of this exploit. call me a noob for all i care, its just not fun at all -_-

Skipping and stacking are not exploits. If you don’t want to skip and stack, explicitly write in your lfg “no skipping or stacking”. How hard is this? Do you see me writing up threads on how pugs are bad? Of course not, if I want good runs I just find a solution to my problem (inefficient runs) and run with guild instead for nice, smooth runs. Why can’t more people do this? Why do they feel like they should complain rather than actually find a solution for themselves?

I am only against skipping and stacking if it’s a teaching situation. I’d want new people to learn how a dungeon was done before super efficient methods became norm, and then show them the more efficient method. That way if something goes wrong, they can fend for themselves and not act like chickens with their heads cut off.

“Learn how to do it wrong then learn how to do it properly” doesn’t sound like a good way of teaching. It literally serves no purpose. Why would you, for example, teach people how to 1500 range Bloomhunger and then show them the melee way? Wouldn’t it make sense to just show them the melee way?

Whether someone can fend for themselves purely depends on their level of control and initiative, and that’s something you can’t teach. People who can control themselves and keep cool will get through awkward situations, and people who struggle through situations that deviate through their standard rotation will … struggle.

I wish this view was shared across most dungeon teachers, but alas, the people that taught me the dungeon runs emphasized the parts to skip (i.e. “When we get to this next section, just run past everything and go to safe spot X”)

The point of teaching is to help educate people on efficient ways to clear a dungeon. Skipping mobs is efficient. If you have a problem with this, don’t ask for a teacher. I’d rather have someone just flat out kicked from the mentoring guild than teaching “no skipping stacking” methods because that’s not teaching, that’s just imposing your inefficient view on your victims (students) who won’t know any better.

You show them the inefficient way for two major reasons. 1) It teaches the students the basics of dungeoning, which gives the students a solid pool of basic skills to rely on, making them better at adapting to changing and uncertain situations, (like if they release a new dungeon, or end up having to pug)
2) It gives the students a healthy respect for the meta tactics they employ.

Because of lack of new dungeon content, players have run the same dungeons so many times that everyone knows the optimal strategies by now. If you want to play some other way, make your own LFG:

“Kill all mobs, no stacking, no playing like a coward”

…and stop complaining about how other people want to play the game.

zorabro.4893:

I feel ashamed since A-net has created the most interesting dungeons, without the use of a holy trinity and a variety of situations to be had within a dungeon…

LULZ

You show them the inefficient way for two major reasons. 1) It teaches the students the basics of dungeoning, which gives the students a solid pool of basic skills to rely on,

Telling them to wear PVT and circle kite mobs is not “the basics of dungeoning”. That’s how things were done at release. I will never teach my students how to do things incorrectly, it’s irresponsible of me.

making them better at adapting to changing and uncertain situations, (like if they release a new dungeon, or end up having to pug)

Except … it doesn’t. If you explain the mechanics of a fight, a player will adapt however he wants to in a pug situation. For example if I was explaining Lupicus’ mechanics I might mention bubbles, but that you won’t need stability in a proper group or soloing, but that while pugging (since pugs basically function as extra lupicus adds) you might want to take a stability just in case you get caught in someone else’s bubble. That’s what I did after getting frustrated at pugs getting me bubbled. “Teach people how to do it wrong so that they can adapt better” literally makes zero sense to me.

2) It gives the students a healthy respect for the meta tactics they employ.

I’m pretty sure just telling them how the dungeon used to be done is enough to appreciate meta tactics. “People used to circle kite and range Lupicus for twenty minutes … but if you melee and do this you can kill him on your own in 6 minutes!”. I’m not going to then demonstrate circle kiting tactics for the next twenty minutes just to make a point of it, hell I wouldn’t even know how to.

I think its important to know how to range lupicus if you are not capable to solo him to save a pug group. In phase 1 everyone stacks at range and pick one person to be responsible for killing the grubs that spawn, in phase 2 you run around like a headless chicken as much as you can to make lupicus teleport around more often, the more he teleports the less he will do the aoe atack, on phase 3 everyone runs around at max range to avoid bubble and the floating aoe.

I was lucky to learn how to solo lupicus even before pugging arah because of how easy it was to solo arah p2 last year, you could just range Belka without any trouble and abomination is pretty easy, and after i got bored of trying to solo lupicus i could just do a jumping puzzle to alphard with my warrior.

I think i would have never learned how to fight lupicus in a pug, it would be nice if ANet released an arena where you can choose to fight any boss from the game, it would be fun to practice solos without having to run a dungeon path or pug everytime.

Casmurro.9046:

It would be nice if ANet released an arena where you can choose to fight any boss from the game.

^This one hundred million times square.

The only real thing that I actually seen to work in diminishing the staking was the fract lvl 39 deb (mobs explode after death) combined with dredge fract transforming even the trash mobs into dangerous opponents if not dodged properly and when we stack… can’t really dodge them all; combine that with zerk gear and you will see people die without a bit of toughness and vita.
So basically instead of doing pointless nerfs, the easy and reliable solution would be to remove the one shot kills from mobs so tank geared players can actually feel a difference between zerk and ptv (in terms of survival) and add more effects similar to those encountered in fract.

Although what concerns me is that some classes feel useless inside dungeons, like engi (casual and average players) and ranger. So at least be happy you have a guard or you would have a hard time even to find a group.

A well played ranger is never useless. The stereotypical puggies can’t get it through their heads.

Engineer is good if the party cannot max out vulnerability stacks, which is often the case in a pug group.

I think its important to know how to range lupicus if you are not capable to solo him to save a pug group.

Not even joking, ranging Lupicus is literally hard mode. You remove pretty much all predictability out of his mechanics if you’re ranging and kiting.

In phase 1 everyone stacks at range and pick one person to be responsible for killing the grubs that spawn,

“When his hand reaches near his head, dodge – that way a grub won’t spawn”. I say this every time I teach Arah. It’s not hard to learn.

in phase 2 you run around like a headless chicken as much as you can to make lupicus teleport around more often, the more he teleports the less he will do the aoe atack,

The AOE attack is dealt with by a dodge and a block or simply a double dodge. Why try to stop him from doing such an easy to deal with attack? The teleporting literally cripples group DPS because he keeps moving out of peoples’ range. It’s why you see people who can solo the guy faster than entire groups can range him. The faster you kill him, the less room for error you have.

on phase 3 everyone runs around at max range to avoid bubble and the floating aoe.

Except Lupicus moves pretty darn fast and bubbles people anyway. Phase 3 has a lot more things for me to explain but I always do it. Meleeing also reduces the number of mechanics to deal with.

Every single time I take a student in to Arah, I take the time to explain each of Lupicus’ phases, and as a fan of trial and error I will both allow them to watch me solo phases and allow us to duo phases until they die – at that point I just reset the fight. I’ve done this for over an hour because Lupicus is the kind of fight you can explain perfectly to someone but it’s only direct experience with the mechanics which allows you to fully learn it yourself. Sure, I can tell someone exactly what to do, but the execution of it is a whole different thing to learning. At the same time, learning to melee will do you a whole world of good for both when you’re in bad pugs, and just for pride’s sake really – Lupicus is pretty much the signature GW2 boss, and soloing is basically the point where someone can say “you know what – I AM more skilled than the average player in this game”.

it’s also very important to teach people NOT to stand inside lupi’s circle in phase 3 unless you are in wall. if you have lupi’s aggro it will move and this will trigger domes. one of the reasons why PUG meleeing is so kittening difficult is because some kitten always pushes lupi and gets everyone domed.

I’m just saying this because every PUG doesn’t seem to know this (probably too used to fighting lupi on the wall).

also, I don’t think it’s important for people to learn to fight the skippable trash in most cases. you’re gonna be fighting similar mob packs anyway, and the tactics are generally the same e.g. blinds and stability on graveling cc, reflects on risen hunters and eles, etc…

tactics for dealing with trash also come naturally; you will eventually know that you should LOS burst down packs, make use of pulls and CC and other general tactics. for the most part you already are going to be fighting the hard trash groups (illusionist pack in arah p4 comes to mind)

zorabro.4893:

Ok i have had PLENTY of time to play this game; and right now i have a lvl 44 guardian, played most of pvp, WvWvW and a couple of dungeons in early april 2013 yes… 2013, its been a year later and ive decided to log back on to get my guardian to lvl 80 as soon as possible… but what HAPPEND TO DUNGEONS???

Of what was of what i thought would be the “hardcore” feature of GW2 is now become the worst experience of my time to be kicked out for not sticking to the general strategy of “stacking and skipping” or as it should call be called “sitting in a corner until they’re all dead and be a coward and skip a bunch of mobs completely to finish the dungeon”.

I feel ashamed since A-net has created the most interesting dungeons, without the use of a holy trinity and a variety of situations to be had within a dungeon… to time your dodges, you had to watch out for your party members and attempt to take down a difficult boss… BUT WHAT HAPEND??? now dungeons can be outright exploited by sitting in a corner and win… rinse and repeat… I don’t care if there is no holy trinity, you have to communicate properly to get passed the next room or boss, not skip and sit in “this” specific corner, and you now have to skip the next set of mobs because “they’re too difficult” ISNT DIFFICULTY TE CHARM OF WHAT MAKES DUNGEONS GREAT TO BLAST THROUGH? GETTING YOUR BUTTS WHOOPED BECAUSE YOU DIDNT PREPARE YOURSELF?

if this is the future of this game then… theres no reason to go run these dungeons… T_T i went through my 3rd run through the ascolon catacombs (i know i misspelled it) but im doing the same friggin deal in all 3 runs… “Stacking and skipping”. its not the game’s fault its the friggin gamers fault for ruining the fun… laugh as you want… im not having fun i hate to admit that because with everything else, dungeons are not fun because of this exploit. call me a noob for all i care, its just not fun at all -_-

Hey there Zorabro, a lot of people feel the same way, but many others do want to stack. I am for one that believes the stacking thing is an error on anets part, and players have gotten used to it to the point where it is almost impossible to change this. Most players feel that this is a legit method of winning, when it is clearly a lack of competence of the AI. You will also gain a ton of hate from players who just want to finish the dungeon as quickly as possible, which is understandable, as they are entitled to play the game the way they want.

So to answer your query, yes, dungeons are a hot mess. Yes, Anet kind-of approved stacking, and no, they will not fix it in the immediate future. Sad as it is, just make your own group in the LFG system and ask for no stacking/skipping. You may have to wait a while though, most people are so used to stacking, they cant play the game any other way now.

Aden Celeste.3650:

So to answer your query, yes, dungeons are a hot mess. Yes, Anet kind-of approved stacking, and no, they will not fix it in the immediate future. Sad as it is, just make your own group in the LFG system and ask for no stacking/skipping. You may have to wait a while though, most people are so used to stacking, they cant play the game any other way now.

Though I am a member of the “playing how you want and just look for like minded people”-fraction as well and I certainly support your suggestion into that direction, I would like to argue your last point.

He will have to wait a little longer, yes, but that won’t be due to the fact that people are “so used to stacking, they can’t play the game any other way now”. He will have to wait longer because “no spipping/stacking” means the run will take more time than one that employs skipping and stacking techniques and time is a very valuable commodity these days.

I’ll refrain from the “skipping and stacking actually in a lot of cases requires more skill if done properly” argumentation because that will get us nowhere as previous threads have shown.

@Aden Celeste: 10/10 for the passive-aggressive style of your posts where you constantly imply that people who stack are bads who can’t do it the long way. keep up the good work!

Guys. He’s level 44. He’s only done AC. He thinks this all about spider queen. Why are you guys bothering?

Anyway. As another has said. Consult the FAQ!

Go to LFG Beta
Create your own LFG
On the description, put in “No stacking, kill everything”
Wait
Play the game.

On the other note, what do you accomplish on killing all mobs? Some blues and greens?

Reward does not compensate on the time spent this way.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Guys. He’s level 44. He’s only done AC. He thinks this all about spider queen. Why are you guys bothering?

Anyway. As another has said. Consult the FAQ!

Pretty much every OP profile for these kind of threads right?
“Just started” “got to 80” “first char” “lvl 35 ranger here…”
I wonder… would these gentleman stand on this philosophy and come back after their 100th+ dungeon run?

knives.6345:

Go to LFG Beta
Create your own LFG
On the description, put in “No stacking, kill everything”
Wait
Play the game.

On the other note, what do you accomplish on killing all mobs? Some blues and greens?

Reward does not compensate on the time spent this way.

Globs of gobbly goo too.

maxinion.8396:

knives.6345:

Go to LFG Beta
Create your own LFG
On the description, put in “No stacking, kill everything”
Wait
Play the game.

On the other note, what do you accomplish on killing all mobs? Some blues and greens?

Reward does not compensate on the time spent this way.

Globs of gobbly goo too.

They need to make those junk items refine able into fine crafting materials.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Casmurro.9046:

It would be nice if ANet released an arena where you can choose to fight any boss from the game.

^This one hundred million times square.

Want interesting and fun solo content in this game? Do that!^^

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Guys. He’s level 44. He’s only done AC. He thinks this all about spider queen. Why are you guys bothering?

Anyway. As another has said. Consult the FAQ!

Spider Queen: most PuG cited exploit since 2012.

I agree with OP on several points. However, as it’s been said several times already. Create your own LFG. I personally get tired of stacking and skipping, however due to my play time constraints, I don’t always have to time to properly clear a dungeon. And I’m sure thats the case with many people, and quite possibly why the stack/skip became the standard for any dungeon run.