Stacking

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Hopeless.5403

Hopeless.5403

Just this… seems like stacking is the easy mode for dungeons if “certain” heroes pop there spells properly. I don’t have a problem with it but it takes away from the action “imo” during the encounter. Was this intended when the devs wrote up dungeons forcing players to stack or was it something that evolved? Haven’t been playing long so sorry if it was a bad question.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Agony.3542

Agony.3542

This topic is new and very interesting.

RIP game 2012-2014

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Tree.3916

Tree.3916

Let me help you understand where stacking comes from using a simple real world example.

In math classes throughout your life you are posed with problems that you must solve. In this case we begin with learning how to add and subtract. Once you get the core concept down repeating those same concepts repeatedly becomes tedious and monotonous (or boring). We can speed up the calculation of the problems by using a calculator (or stacking in this case). Since we have not had any new dungeons added since launch, (permanent additions) repeatedly running the same encounters has become tedious or monotonous (or boring). We use stacking as a means to quickly complete content that has been experienced time and time again.

If adding is too simple of an example, then extrapolate the example to a calculus problem or differential problem.

Point in case. If you don’t know the reason why you stack then probably stacking is not going to help you in that case.

DnT Apply today if you think you can hang with the best of the best
http://www.twitch.tv/tree_dnt || https://twitter.com/Tree_DnT
The meta is changing at an alarming rate!

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Hopeless.5403

Hopeless.5403

Let me help you understand where stacking comes from using a simple real world example.

In math classes throughout your life you are posed with problems that you must solve. In this case we begin with learning how to add and subtract. Once you get the core concept down repeating those same concepts repeatedly becomes tedious and monotonous (or boring). We can speed up the calculation of the problems by using a calculator (or stacking in this case). Since we have not had any new dungeons added since launch, (permanent additions) repeatedly running the same encounters has become tedious or monotonous (or boring). We use stacking as a means to quickly complete content that has been experienced time and time again.

If adding is too simple of an example, then extrapolate the example to a calculus problem or differential problem.

Point in case. If you don’t know the reason why you stack then probably stacking is not going to help you in that case.

Hehe thanks for the excellent analogy.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: zerotwo.4731

zerotwo.4731

Pure and simple. Time is money.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: mage.3570

mage.3570

Stacking is good because:
- Quicker res
- Higher DPS due to benefits from traits/banners/combo fields of nearby members
- Faster condition removal due to party members helping out

All of the above saves time, and time is money.

Been there, done that. What’s next?

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Hopeless.5403

Hopeless.5403

I guess what I’m asking is, would you like to see areanet move away from this in future dungeons? Are you guys satisfied with stacking during encounters? Yes I understand if there is an easier method or faster means of getting through a dungeon everyone will tag along, but was this always visioned by the devs? Or am I being hopeless

(edited by Hopeless.5403)

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: mooty.4560

mooty.4560

Most melee has an inherent “cleave” effect where you can tag up to three foes, thus maximizing damage potential if your foes are balled up for this along with standard five-foe AoE skills. Also, since the game has no ally micro for support, you’re more apt to benefit from it if you’re near your allies. For instance the guardian class can remove conditions, heal and provide a bunch of boon support but it’s only in a radius from the character position.. they can’t target you and provide support from across the room.

There is also the unfortunate truth that GW2 PvE instances lack depth and can be conquered quite easily with simple, brainless stacking techniques.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Agony.3542

Agony.3542

Let’s remove stacking, zerkgear, skipping and reflects from dungeons and watch all the QQ from the guys complaining about the above stuff right now.

RIP game 2012-2014

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Barkas.2863

Barkas.2863

This topic is new and very interesting.

Not.

Legendary Weaponcollector Vijay 9/11
Legendary Weaponcollector Vi Jay 0/5
Fractal Lvl: 50 | EU/World First Team done 50.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Tree.3916

Tree.3916

I guess what I’m asking is, would you like to see areanet move away from this in future dungeons? Are you guys satisfied with stacking during encounters? Yes I understand if there is an easier method or faster means of getting through a dungeon everyone will tag along, but was this always visioned by the devs? Or am I being hopeless

I’ve thought about the “intendedness” (is that even a word?) of the dungeons and there are few things they can do to fix stacking but this would just introduce other problems.
The fundamentals of the NPC AI would need to change which would require a significant overhaul to their engine. They have neither the time nor the resources to do such a task.

What we want are smart mobs but due to limitations to processing power, AI implementation, and the human element they are unable to achieve what we want. It’s not their fault. No dev studio has solved this problem and we are asking for the impossible at the moment.

Regardless of what the developers intended, we are still able to stack, exploit, and innovate new ways of playing the content. If you don’t like it, we won’t stop you but don’t expect everyone to play with you as well.

DnT Apply today if you think you can hang with the best of the best
http://www.twitch.tv/tree_dnt || https://twitter.com/Tree_DnT
The meta is changing at an alarming rate!

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

Let’s remove stacking, zerkgear, skipping and reflects from dungeons and watch all the QQ from the guys complaining about the above stuff right now.

Honestly, I think that getting rid of or at least reducing the presence of those would make the game MUCH more interesting. At the very least they really should address stacking and reflects; they’re not technically exploits but they make what would otherwise be challenging encounters way too simple-minded.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

I guess what I’m asking is, would you like to see areanet move away from this in future dungeons? Are you guys satisfied with stacking during encounters? Yes I understand if there is an easier method or faster means of getting through a dungeon everyone will tag along, but was this always visioned by the devs? Or am I being hopeless

That depends. What is the value in stacking against some of the newer bosses?
I mean the ones starting with the release of fractals. Stacking at some of those are outright bad while at others they wouldn’t really offer anything.

If you mean “should they go back and change the existing dungeons?” then that has already been answered already since they’ve done that twice already.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: mooty.4560

mooty.4560

I’ve thought about the “intendedness” (is that even a word?) of the dungeons and there are few things they can do to fix stacking but this would just introduce other problems.

Without fundamentally changing gameplay mechanics and overhauling the instances in place, it likely won’t change. Instead, I can see two scenarios happening.

A. Things stay relatively the same with a few additional options for more challenging cooperative PvE content. ANet’s already convinced me that they can utilize the framework of GW2 as it is and offer more intriguing cooperative PvE with the introduction of the aetherblade path in TA. I’m also a fan of the Lupicus fight, even if people decide to make a joke of it by beating it with two players and posting vids on this forum.

B. Future expansions and new releases offer increasingly difficult content to satisfy demand for such things and raise the overall challenge the game offers PvErs while simultaneously making rewards from older, less challenging content irrelevant.

I think A is much more likely because I think ANet’s new philosophy is to create mass appeal and offer a little something for everyone. I gather that after playing GW1 for so many years and weighing the differences of GW2 with it. GW2 is clearly intended to reach a larger audience.. which means more money and more development dollars.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Agony.3542

Agony.3542

I think they should just remove dungeons completely. They create way too much drama for everyone .

RIP game 2012-2014

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Many of the base mechanics of the game encourage stacking. Two examples:

  • the size of combo fields
  • the preponderance of cleaving weapons.

Come to think of it, perhaps Anet should create more mobs that use combo fields — you have 2 mobs, one who creates a field, the other who blasts .. you have to keep them apart or else their combo makes them super powerful. That can perhaps encourage you to split your group in order to separate the mobs.

(edited by Lord Kuru.3685)

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: mooty.4560

mooty.4560

Come to think of it, perhaps Anet should create more mobs that use combo fields — you have 2 mobs, one who creates a field, the other who blasts .. you have to keep them apart or else their combo makes them super powerful. That can perhaps encourage you to split your group in order to separate the mobs.

I actually think combo fields are under utilized outside of places like WvW. In particular, in PvE, there tends to be a lot of AoE skills that offer combo fields but they’re just carelessly stacked upon each other for the damage effect and not the benefits of blast finishers. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that only the oldest field is triggered when finishers are used.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: zerotwo.4731

zerotwo.4731

The only way Anet could get players to stop stacking would be to have the dungeon path different EVERY time you entered it.Doing battles you never fought before would be the only way. Stacking allows us to get done that tedious dungeon path we do as a daily run. Some of this is achieved in fractals where within the fractal you can go different paths but since its not random enough players choose to stack for the buffs and quick kill.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: MastaNeenja.1537

MastaNeenja.1537

Come to think of it, perhaps Anet should create more mobs that use combo fields — you have 2 mobs, one who creates a field, the other who blasts .. you have to keep them apart or else their combo makes them super powerful. That can perhaps encourage you to split your group in order to separate the mobs.

I actually think combo fields are under utilized outside of places like WvW. In particular, in PvE, there tends to be a lot of AoE skills that offer combo fields but they’re just carelessly stacked upon each other for the damage effect and not the benefits of blast finishers. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that only the oldest field is triggered when finishers are used.

Well if you have a group of players that work together every day you can get the most out of combo fields because players start working out rotations with each other. This is one of the things that separates PUGs from an experienced team of players. Combo fields practically encourage stacking or at least playing within close proximity. I agree that the majority of combo fields are going to go to waste in PVE because of all the PUGs formed. If i wind up PUGing myself I don’t expect much in the way of combo field usage.

As for your question, yes the oldest field is the one that triggers, hammer guardians for example need to be aware of this when playing with Eles and Engies if they are trying to set up might stacking. Although I suspect if your DPS is good enough you could run one fire field have everyone blast finish to stack the mights then charge in and kill everything before your might wears off.

As far as combo field and mobs, sure why not? I’d love to see some mobs do that, variety is good.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: MastaNeenja.1537

MastaNeenja.1537

The only way Anet could get players to stop stacking would be to have the dungeon path different EVERY time you entered it.Doing battles you never fought before would be the only way. Stacking allows us to get done that tedious dungeon path we do as a daily run. Some of this is achieved in fractals where within the fractal you can go different paths but since its not random enough players choose to stack for the buffs and quick kill.

I dunno the few times when we get a new dungeon i start looking for good places to stack up on my first couple of play through. I think the only way to stop stacking would be to remove walls and obstructions. Half of stacking is the old tried and true pulling tactic anyway, pulling isn’t bad, right guys?

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: zerotwo.4731

zerotwo.4731

Pulling to make a group smaller and stack for buffs.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Vox Hollow.2736

Vox Hollow.2736

Eh, don’t be so defeatist

Stacking is a rare practice, plenty of games manage to avoid the behavior without something as radical as making fights different everytime you try it. There’s some AI or balance fundamentals you could pluck from other games that might work well enough in this one to help combat stacking.

For instance, I’ve played a game where Bosses simply didn’t have a following behavior, they governed their own movement and a standard part of teamwork was somebody holding them still so that you could adequately damage them. Something like that could work out pretty nicely here given how many problems we have with the meaning of control skills.

They’re just, you know, expensive in pretty much every meaning of the word. Production-wise, programming wise, risk wise. With something like a Chinese rollout already on their plate at the moment, I can see why they’re not exactly jumping at the opportunity to pull out their AI by the roots.

(edited by Vox Hollow.2736)

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: mooty.4560

mooty.4560

The only way Anet could get players to stop stacking would be to have the dungeon path different EVERY time you entered it.

There are several ways to do this.

Add in ally targeting for support skills and tone down the AoE effects.
Make enemies perform deadly AoE when players are grouped or just cause more AoE in general that forces players to spread out.
Give players a debuff that causes a damage pulse to allies that come near.

I’m sure the devs have thought this over with a fine toothed comb and have many more ideas.. but there’s certainly more ways than just adding diablo-esque random dungeon encounters.

Stacking

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

Stacking is not really a bad thing. Some people view that as a short cut so you can got strait for the money, money. And these people usually point out that if you skip/stack everything you also skip the fun and just do some boring but fast run to get the reward and get the hell out of there. And these people are not totally wrong.

But of the other side, i love to skip/stack on some occasion. For me and some of my friend we pushing ourselves to beat the dungeon better and better. If some stacking are easy, other are a bit harder and others are really hard and need you to bring your game to another level.

For exemple the Alpha in CoE. For me as a Guardian it was always a easy stack. With my zerker gear and my Vigor on crits i always have a dodge for his AoE. But my Warrior friend, switch weapon so he can have a Warhorn to give vigor to others and use the stamina signet, my thief friend figure out that Sword Pistol allow him to block all his AoE if he use the good timing, and the same things for most of my guildmates. We exchange information and trick that we learn to make each run faster and easier. Its a never ending process that bring a new level of fun to each dungeon.

And other stacking like Lupicus are just strait hard and come more as a challenge that just to go faster with the dungeon.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD