Guild Wars 2

First off, I’d like to know how many people are keen on having some revamped dungeons coming into Guild Wars 2?
- While the first season of the Living World had its flaws, many agree the dungeons that it presented far exceeded the original bunch at launch, and I know that I, for one, really enjoyed some of the newer paths and dungeons that GW2 has to offer.

Everyone knows that the original dungeons has a bad case of the stacks.
- People “cheat” their way through, and it basically shows what poor dungeon design can lead to. It is faster, and people will always try to be as effective as possible, so who can blame them, really?

So my suggestion is this: Revamp the original dungeons, and at the same time, introduce some ascended armor and weapon designs for these dungeons. Keep the original exotic armor sets as well, but add something extra that gives players incentive to revisit the newer versions.

Before the other regulars chime in about the reasons behind skipping and stacking, as well as the fact stacking is no longer optimal in nearly every instance, tell us exactly what you’d like to see and why it would promote skillful and compelling gameplay?

Sinifair.1026:

While the first season of the Living World had its flaws, many agree the dungeons that it presented far exceeded the original bunch at launch, and I know that I, for one, really enjoyed some of the newer paths and dungeons that GW2 has to offer.

Aetherpath, really?
The fractals that were added during the 1st season were mostly enjoyable though, apart from Molten Facility that is nothing but waiting, waiting and more waiting.

Sinifair.1026:

Everyone knows that the original dungeons has a bad case of the stacks.
- People “cheat” their way through

Bingo, anyone?

Sinifair.1026:

Revamp the original dungeons, and at the same time, introduce some ascended armor and weapon designs for these dungeons. Keep the original exotic armor sets as well, but add something extra that gives players incentive to revisit the newer versions.

If by ‘revamp’ you mean change them into something more like Aetherpath then I can’t support that, even though the odds of that happening are exactly zero. Adding new designs of ascended gear as rare drops however are a fair suggestion imo however.
The devs would be better off devoting their efforts to fixing existing bugs in current dungeons than completely transforming them.

Dungeons isn’t where I spent most of my time, and I spent very little time in GW2 these days.
- However, when I do dungeon it’s the usual “STACK!”, “NOOBS!” and “Thx, bb.” so when I did the Aetherpath for the first time a few months back, it was a nice change of pace.
- I haven’t played all the new dungeons, and I’ve yet to lure my friends back into the game to do some of the multiplayer content with me.

I have read many a place that a revamp would be nice to all the original dungeons, but I’m not a dungeon designer. I’ll put my faith in the devs and the feedback of the hardcore dungeon community to make compelling dungeon content (and by hardcore dungeon community, I don’t mean those who stack… because that is hardly hardcore).

The idea of having revamped dungeons and new ascended gear to go alongside it was just and idea that I’d been thinking would up the original dungeons a bit – and no, I don’t mean something exactly like the Aetherblade path (though I find it more fun than many of the original dungeons) but something better and less like the Zhaitan fight…

Just out of curiosity, Veckna, what are some of the most fun, challenging and/or best dungeon mechanics you’ve encountered?

Sinifair.1026:

Dungeons isn’t where I spent most of my time, and I spent very little time in GW2 these days.
- However, when I do dungeon it’s the usual “STACK!”, “NOOBS!” and “Thx, bb.” so when I did the Aetherpath for the first time a few months back, it was a nice change of pace.
- I haven’t played all the new dungeons, and I’ve yet to lure my friends back into the game to do some of the multiplayer content with me.

I have read many a place that a revamp would be nice to all the original dungeons, but I’m not a dungeon designer. I’ll put my faith in the devs and the feedback of the hardcore dungeon community to make compelling dungeon content (and by hardcore dungeon community, I don’t mean those who stack… because that is hardly hardcore).

The idea of having revamped dungeons and new ascended gear to go alongside it was just and idea that I’d been thinking would up the original dungeons a bit – and no, I don’t mean something exactly like the Aetherblade path (though I find it more fun than many of the original dungeons) but something better and less like the Zhaitan fight…

Just out of curiosity, Veckna, what are some of the most fun, challenging and/or best dungeon mechanics you’ve encountered?

Here we go again with the exact same attitude. Please learn why people stack, and why it isn’t useful anymore, and how proper speedrun is done, participate in those, and then we can talk about revamping dungeons/stacks. Also keep in mind that same dungeons have been run over and over for 2 years, which means most of the people that do dungeons already know the general tactics.

If you really, really want challenge, dive straight in to Arah with new people and enjoy your new encounters. For those of us who do dungeon tours everyday, its the same thing over and over. We sometimes come in to PUG party and help people out, yet people so firmly believe that stacking=win without proper utilities that when they die, they kick necro/ranger or rage at everyone. So please, for the last time, learn your class, the learn the other class, actually play those classes in efficient and timely manner. Then you’ll see why stacking was useful and now not so much

Only bad pugs don’t stack in aetherpath. The fastest way to do aetherpath is to stack for most of the encounters except the boss fights.

Also most people would agree that most of the boss fight in that dungeon isn’t enjoyable, people want to use their skill sets and reading boss tells to make good plays, they don’t want forced “teamwork” like luring ooze around like a kitten or luring hologram in circles, that isn’t enjoyable at all.

A well designed dungeon would probably be arah and its iconic boss, lupicus.

Sinifair.1026:

Just out of curiosity, Veckna, what are some of the most fun, challenging and/or best dungeon mechanics you’ve encountered?

For starters, I dislike Aetherpath because of the annoying puzzles that were implemented into that dungeon. The boss fights themselves are not challenging at all which just makes it anti-climatic that what would make or break a run would be something that could be considered a “sideshow”.

As far as my favorite encounters in this game, I’d have to say that I’m quite fond of Kodan’s Bane, Huntsman of Jormag (last boss of Honor of the Waves story mode), Giganticus Lupicus (the most iconic boss in any of the arah explorable paths), Mai Trin (Aetherblade boss fractal – Not really by the challenge of the encounter but by the interesting change of pace that the fight brings), Imbued Shaman (boss of Volcanic Fractal), Wraithlord’s Hunter and Wraithlord’s Crusher (arah path 3) and Farnaz, High Priestess of Lyssa (arah path 4).

Concerning stacking, there is only 1 reason for groups to stack these days and that’s to “Line-of-sight” groups of mobs. Standing in melee range of a boss achieves the same results on the boon sharing front and as proven time and time again since the 9/9 patch, more often than not pulling a boss to a corner is nothing but a waste of time.
I’m sorry that you’ve had bad experiences in pick-up groups with people that would consider themselves high-end dungeon/fractal players, but you’re barking up the wrong tree in these forums as most regulars here wouldn’t do what you’ve described above.

What are these dungeons people keep talking about we had 1 new path aetherblade and for that we had to sacrifice ta forward up. ( since it was apparnatly to hard to fix the last boss )

I wouldn’t mind revamped dungeons. However, instead of redoing what they already have, make additional paths to the existing dungeons. Maybe even some of those requiring ascended with agony resistance. I for one would like to see a use for those outside of high level fractals.

Of course the issue would be the Dungeon Master title, unless any additional paths weren’t included in the requirements to get it. Just like new zones are not required for map completion. Other then that I don’t see how it would even be an issue.

Oh, you know what, ain’t worth it… Taking it back. Do whatever you want… say whatever you want, we don’t have a dungeon team.

deSade.9437:

Oh not again…. /sigh
Please read the dungeon FAQ stickied at the top, then get the hell out of here and run some dungeons with a decent party. Make some frands that will help you. If anyone is willing to take you along with such an attitude, that is. I surely ain’t teaching someone that calls me a cheater because I skip a couple of mobs and stack.

Maybe it’s just me, but the fact that he used “cheat” with quotations says that he doesn’t necessarily think that skipping and stacking is cheating. However he does say that the dungeons poor designs allow for that. And while most (read: reasonable) people don’t consider skipping and stacking as cheats, they can agree that the current dungeon mechanics do allow for it, and while it may not be the devs vision for how dungeons should be run, it is the most effecient method for doing dungeons (in some cases).

Look, I regret even trying to post in such threads. Nothing good comes out of it, nothing. You can’t explain to those people, hence my (not only mine…) tired frustration that leads to rather smug replies. You either put up a fight, and I hate fighting with the “anti-cheating”, “anti-cheesing” crowd, or you smile and nod while backpedaling slowly.
I’m also not interested in discussing the “design” of dungeons, as if anyone here had even a vague idea on how freaking hard doing such things on such a big game is. I surely don’t. Poor design? I say that most dungeons are pretty good, but they’re old. OLD! Old means that it has been worn and done, done many times. If you do things many times=easier. Sure, some bosses suck, but others don’t. They’d just need a little tweaking.
Honestly, bringing up the poor, beaten horses of stacking and skipping only causes anger and frustration. You should really put these things to rest. Everyone.
Just a couple of considerations and then, if anyone wants a fight, I’m just letting you bark at the wind: nobody takes anyone else seriously if this one comes here after doing a few dungeons in a pug, inquiring revamped dungeons that would require gw2’s devs to throw half of what they’ve done with programming up in the air; lastly, we all know what that “cheating” meant. Don’t like it? Good. You know what to do.
There are means to research this information and much more just by looking at the stickies.
If this is about having harder dungeons, everyone and their mother knows we all want harder zones.
You better brace yourself, because these zones will almost surely have some stacking and skipping included.
Unless you want to make boons with unlimited range…. /fights back laughter
Excuse me.

AC was revamped a long time ago and although it was technically improved in a number of respects the player base soon reduced it to stack and skip again. The NPCs had been given more a bigger role in the event chains and this just meant they bugged more often. The revamp simply wasn’t worth the design effort, it wasn’t appreciated by the player base, and revamps are unlikely to happen again soon.

No point in asking for ascended loot in dungeons, just go do the top tier group content – fractals. I expect that new group content will eventually come and it will be different from the existing dungeons. Any new ascended loot will probably come in higher level fractals when it finally arrive.

Linken.6345:

What are these dungeons people keep talking about we had 1 new path aetherblade and for that we had to sacrifice ta forward up. ( since it was apparnatly to hard to fix the last boss )

Don’t forget the Canach Lair dungeon (remember it was sold as such!).

Lord Kuru.3685:

Linken.6345:

What are these dungeons people keep talking about we had 1 new path aetherblade and for that we had to sacrifice ta forward up. ( since it was apparnatly to hard to fix the last boss )

Don’t forget the Canach Lair dungeon (remember it was sold as such!).

Oh you got me there really thought i had missed a dungeon with 3 paths in a living story update haha

pdavis.8031:

deSade.9437:

Oh not again…. /sigh
Please read the dungeon FAQ stickied at the top, then get the hell out of here and run some dungeons with a decent party. Make some frands that will help you. If anyone is willing to take you along with such an attitude, that is. I surely ain’t teaching someone that calls me a cheater because I skip a couple of mobs and stack.

Maybe it’s just me, but the fact that he used “cheat” with quotations says that he doesn’t necessarily think that skipping and stacking is cheating. However he does say that the dungeons poor designs allow for that. And while most (read: reasonable) people don’t consider skipping and stacking as cheats, they can agree that the current dungeon mechanics do allow for it, and while it may not be the devs vision for how dungeons should be run, it is the most effecient method for doing dungeons (in some cases).

True, I don’t. After doing these dungeons many times, people simply want efficiency, which for many PUG’s I’ve been in have meant to stack the way through the dungeon and skip as much as possible, and I can understand why people would do that, but when skipping content is the way to go, then there IS bad design involved. I’ve tried dungeons in other MMO’s where “skipping” trash mobs was possible due to their patrol route and there being more than just one way forward. Not in GW2; just run, if someone is downed then it’s tough luck for them, they can try again or in some cases just get kicked – ONLY, have I tried that, in GW2.
- It bothers me that there is so little teamwork, when I’m doing dungeons. Especially when GW2 has the combo fields, which could allow for some variations on how to deal with various situations. I know that combo fields are part of what makes stacking possible, but it would be a shame to have the devs simply abandoning the possibilities they present – especially when innovation is what ANet was founded for.

deSade, you are very quick to simply rage and put intentions on me. I urge you not to. Instead I’ll level with you here, as to what my intentions were.
- Mainly I’ve become tired of Gem Store armor sets. You can earn them by grinding for gold, but unlike the Elite Sets of GW1 there is not a status – or in skritt: “shiny” – along with them.
- Ascended armor that is not only obtainable through crafting would be neat. My original thought was to simply implement Ascended gear to each original dungeon and having said gear themed after the dungeon.
- As for having the dungeons revamped, I’ve heard people complain about Zhaitan since he was first defeated, so why not go all the way and add both ascended items and some revamped dungeons? – I’ll be the first to admit, I’m not as invested in dungeons as many other players of GW2, but I know that there is more than enough room for improvement there. And it shouldn’t be an issue to other players if improvement is requested on the forum. It should be an issue that the devs should take into consideration.
- And if revamped dungeons really is too much to ask for at the present time, then at least consider the ascended gear through dungeon tokens, then?

Stooperdale.3560:

AC was revamped a long time ago and although it was technically improved in a number of respects the player base soon reduced it to stack and skip again. The NPCs had been given more a bigger role in the event chains and this just meant they bugged more often. The revamp simply wasn’t worth the design effort, it wasn’t appreciated by the player base, and revamps are unlikely to happen again soon.

No point in asking for ascended loot in dungeons, just go do the top tier group content – fractals. I expect that new group content will eventually come and it will be different from the existing dungeons. Any new ascended loot will probably come in higher level fractals when it finally arrive.

A pity. The idea just popped up the other day, with themed ascended gear for the original dungeons.
I’m wondering whether the big projects ANet has cooking in the background really is an expansion or an expansions worth of content and whether or not it will add to the dungeons (or new dungeons, maybe rather) and Fractals.
- There haven’t been any news about that, have there?
I haven’t had as much time to be a frequenting player recently, so I’m a bit behind on news and all that. Mostly just log in every two weeks for the continued Living Story, that’s all I really got time for, regrettably.

Here we go again. Post those in the general discussion subforum, I don’t want that in the dungeons subforum. Just go there and have a bunch of toxics agreeing with you, we won’t even bother to try and teach you why you’re wrong.

Lifestealer.4910:

they don’t want forced “teamwork”

who is they?

Anyone who doesn’t want teamwork and trying to play an mmo is setting themselves up for disappointment. Especially in a dungeon setting where teamwork is key to success.

oxtred.7658:

Here we go again. Post those in the general discussion subforum, I don’t want that in the dungeons subforum. Just go there and have a bunch of toxics agreeing with you, we won’t even bother to try and teach you why you’re wrong.

And how is he wrong? He says he would like to see dungeons revamped? Is that such a bad thing? Also he suggested ascended dungeon armor. It’s not a terrible suggestion. I’ve seen worse. You don’t have to agree that dungeons should be revamped and changed up, or even with the ascended dungeon armor, but saying he’s wrong for even suggesting those things is just a little on the mean side.

Dungeon revamps would be fine. Even something as simple as updating the aoe circles to match the new orange ones you see everywhere.

Id also be for something simple like increasing all legendary bosses’ HP by 33% and decreasing the cool downs on their special attacks by a bit (25%?). These simple changes would make dungeons a good deal harder for people who don’t understand the mechanics, so increase rewards would be nice.

Agree with Hybrid. The AoE circles might make dungeons more approachable for newer or less experienced players while doing nothing to affect veteran players. Plus, for some reason I think they add a clean look to everything.

Not sure I support an HP increase for all bosses but a cooldown decrease on their powerhouse attacks would be nice. It could put more pressure on groups. It wont be some insane challenge but it could add a little flavor to a (imo) dry experience at this point.

I’ve stopped actively playing for some time however I was, and still am in support of more paths to existing dungeons. The reason being is that there is so much story we can explore. The current paths are “frozen in time”. New paths would allow more story to be told about the dungeon to include current stories that could tie in the the Living World and the Lore in a more complete and up to date way.

I’d love more stories in AC harkening back to GW 1. I’d like more stories in CM regarding plots against the Queen. I’d like to see a “greener” Arah where players fight to cleanse portions of the dungeon. Anyways, these are the things I was really passionate about seeing when I was an active dungeon player.

Hopefully the LS can bring some of this our way but if not, so be it.

To add more paths to an existing dungeon, the developers would need to update or expand their current map (like TA Atherblade). I have a mixed feeling about this issue as it would cost a lot of resources and risk not getting any appreciation.

Hmm not entirely. A lot of the dungeons paths share about 25% of their territory. That’s just an approximation but the amount of ground that needs to be added isn’t that extensive.

Just using Arah P4 as an example, we’re able to get a whole new story and some more background and Lore using a lot of the same areas as paths 1-3. AC uses a lot of the same areas as well. If there is well done story telling and interesting advances, I would still be very excited to see this.

Additionally, it’s been quite a while since we’re visited these dungeons as characters. I think in canon we only really visit them once and then we’re finished. These paths could give a chance to show changes in the dungeons. This wouldn’t make it unacceptable to re-use a lot of the same areas; it would actually make some sense.