Guild Wars 2

I’ve mentioned this before on a few other threads in the past, but it seemed to never catch on. No one really gave enough input. So I’ve decided to write it up as its own thread.

The suggestions for these two new game modes would promote replayability in pve. The underlining purpose would be to promote challenging gameplay while we wait for more content to be produced. Both suggestions are features Guild Wars 1 currently have. But could obviously be explored and expanded upon in Guild Wars 2.

Hard mode dungeons:

So this is something I’ll admit I’m a little surprised still isn’t in the game. Dungeons used to be very difficult content when the game was still young. But now a days, they have become trivial instances that people can easily solo or complete in a group in a few minutes if sped run. People still put up LFG for dungeons but, no where near as much as it used to be. Many people have gained the assumption that dungeons are forgotten content, and I am also inclined to agree.

In many other MMO’s to make such things still relevant they have a harder mode of their same dungeons players can reply to complete, along with increased rewards. I think Guild Wars 2 could greatly benefit from this.

1) It’ll promote more 5 man content outside of fractals.
2) Since it doesn’t require ascended gear, anyone can group up and do it. However team play will be a requirement.
3) Since the content will be more difficult, it’ll encourage different styles of play. (support, healing, cc, etc)
4) It could be a great way to get more people into raiding. If they can complete dungeons in hard mode, they should no problems translating that skill into raiding.
5) A new title for completing all the dungeons in hard mode. I can’t think of one so I’ll leave that up to someone else to come up with. “Supreme Dungeon Master”?
6) Increased rewards with the addition of ascended material drops.

I wanna see other peoples suggestions to this.

Endless mode:

So this is something I think could be a lot more easier to implement into the game. I’m willing to hear reasons why it may not as well. So a few months back we got the living story content update episode 2 Rising Flames. While playing the living story portion, we meet up with Taimi who introduces the virtual reality pad that has the player character fighting against waves of fake destroyers. I wanna see this turned into its own game mode.

The story could be: The commander (us) wants to train to become a more experienced fighter. So wave after wave of enemies (from all over Tyria) are sent on us to see how long the player can survival in the virtual reality enviroment. The more waves you complete, the harder it becomes, and the better the rewards. Every ten levels introduces a new boss to defeat. Players can group up and try to survive as long as possible. This mode should also have leaderboard support, but for Guilds only. Guild Wars 1 had a very similar feature to this; called “Challenge Missions.”

1) Its a friendly Pve way of promoting Guild competition because of the leaderboards. As well as giving more reasons for Guilds to group up together.
2) Promotes diverse play (Waves will get harder and harder)
3) A great way to test ones skill, as well as team skill
4) If the game continues to introduce more power creep, this game mode would benefit the most from it, because it’ll allow players to survive or push even longer.
5) I think introducing an exclusive armor skin and titles would promote more people to try it out. Achievements as well.
6) Because this is endless with increasing difficulty, it will always be the hardest content in the game. It’ll be great for players or guilds to prove they have or are highly skilled players.

Another option to this would be to allow players to continue off of a wave they might have failed on, depending on the 10th of the number. Meaning, if they wipe on wave 17, they can continue off of wave 10. Still debating if each wave should be random or not.

Let me know what you guys think. Should Anet dedicate some man power into creating this? Or should they just focus on their current game modes?

Dragon.8762:

I’ve mentioned this before on a few other threads in the past, but it seemed to never catch on. No one really gave enough input. So I’ve decided to write it up as its own thread.

Of course, it never catches on. When players tend to write about hard mode, they tend to write it in an abstract way. Many times, there is not description of the mob itself. Basically, no substance to argue against. Guess what. High health mobs, High damage, Enrage Timers, High armor etc are also consider a challenge. Majority of the player base hates it because it limits build choices.

I want interesting mobs. I do not care about of the difficulty of the mob itself when the mob itself is engaging it. I wanted Anet to expose their ai system to allow players to tinker with it. These days, players added content is future of games.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Configurable-weights-in-Tamini-s-Game-areana/first#post6426553

1. Some of the T4 fractals are already set as a “stepping stone” for raids. I don’t think it would bring more people into raiding than nowadays with those fracs we have.

2. There is no dungeon dev team and I also think that the know-how of the old dungeon has been lost (dungeon dev team left years ago) or at least it is not worth to spend any ressources into dungeons if you have a look onto the cost-value ratio.
You need to keep in mind that the dungeons are full of bugs and they weren’t even able to fix a handful of them when the dungeon community asked for it and wrote every bug down properly. All that happened almost 2 years ago. Even if we want to have it, it would be nearly impossible to achieve by them.
Therefore dungeons are a relic of old times and they still have their spot. Let them rest in peace.

3. It would also slow down new content in terms of new fractals and raids because they are lacking people. That is nothing anybody wants. I’d rather have new challenging content than an overhaul of stuff I ran dozens of times.

loseridoit.2756:

Dragon.8762:

I’ve mentioned this before on a few other threads in the past, but it seemed to never catch on. No one really gave enough input. So I’ve decided to write it up as its own thread.

Of course, it never catches on. When players tend to write about hard mode, they tend to write it in an abstract way. Many times, there is not description of the mob itself. Basically, no substance to argue against. Guess what. High health mobs, High damage, Enrage Timers, High armor etc are also consider a challenge. Majority of the player base hates it because it limits build choices.

I want interesting mobs. I do not care about of the difficulty of the mob itself when the mob itself is engaging it. I wanted Anet to expose their ai system to allow players to tinker with it. These days, players added content is future of games.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Configurable-weights-in-Tamini-s-Game-areana/first#post6426553

So you think Anet should first consider making AI more advanced? In my post, yes I didn’t go into how mobs should react or how they should change because of the increased difficulty. My take would be the same take, that was implemented in Guild wars 1.

1. Higher attributes
2. Move and attack more often
3. Responds more quickly to aoe
4. Less likely to ball around a single target if there are more targets
5. More likely to kite
6. Have more skills available to them that were not there before.
7. Possible higher mob count

Vinceman.4572:

1. Some of the T4 fractals are already set as a “stepping stone” for raids. I don’t think it would bring more people into raiding than nowadays with those fracs we have.

2. There is no dungeon dev team and I also think that the know-how of the old dungeon has been lost (dungeon dev team left years ago) or at least it is not worth to spend any ressources into dungeons if you have a look onto the cost-value ratio.
You need to keep in mind that the dungeons are full of bugs and they weren’t even able to fix a handful of them when the dungeon community asked for it and wrote every bug down properly. All that happened almost 2 years ago. Even if we want to have it, it would be nearly impossible to achieve by them.
Therefore dungeons are a relic of old times and they still have their spot. Let them rest in peace.

3. It would also slow down new content in terms of new fractals and raids because they are lacking people. That is nothing anybody wants. I’d rather have new challenging content than an overhaul of stuff I ran dozens of times.

I wouldn’t necessarily say never to a dungeon retouch. But I’m also not disagreeing with you here, on the point that its just not gonna be a priority for the devs anymore, or maybe for now. (New legendary weapons) However, its not impossible, and could be something added at some point in the future.

Dragon.8762:

loseridoit.2756:

Dragon.8762:

I’ve mentioned this before on a few other threads in the past, but it seemed to never catch on. No one really gave enough input. So I’ve decided to write it up as its own thread.

Of course, it never catches on. When players tend to write about hard mode, they tend to write it in an abstract way. Many times, there is not description of the mob itself. Basically, no substance to argue against. Guess what. High health mobs, High damage, Enrage Timers, High armor etc are also consider a challenge. Majority of the player base hates it because it limits build choices.

I want interesting mobs. I do not care about of the difficulty of the mob itself when the mob itself is engaging it. I wanted Anet to expose their ai system to allow players to tinker with it. These days, players added content is future of games.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Configurable-weights-in-Tamini-s-Game-areana/first#post6426553

So you think Anet should first consider making AI more advanced? In my post, yes I didn’t go into how mobs should react or how they should change because of the increased difficulty. My take would be the same take, that was implemented in Guild wars 1.

1. Higher attributes
2. Move and attack more often
3. Responds more quickly to aoe
4. Less likely to ball around a single target if there are more targets
5. More likely to kite
6. Have more skills available to them that were not there before.
7. Possible higher mob count

Most of the stuff you point out is already implemented. I am starting to believe that Anet default just suck.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1021848/Building-a-Better-Centaur-AI

I guess I fail to realize Anet has already implemented the vast majority of what I wanted. I guess Aegis and passive blocks does break the ai.

From the looks of it, all we need to do is tinker with the values.

We’d be waiting a lot longer for new content if ANet had to stop to work on hardmode dungeons. The “endless mob” challenge is, on the surface, a lot easier to set up, but even that would require managing the levels and rewards. I’d far prefer to see newer content, rather than a rehash of older content.

loseridoit.2756:

Dragon.8762:

loseridoit.2756:

Dragon.8762:

I’ve mentioned this before on a few other threads in the past, but it seemed to never catch on. No one really gave enough input. So I’ve decided to write it up as its own thread.

Of course, it never catches on. When players tend to write about hard mode, they tend to write it in an abstract way. Many times, there is not description of the mob itself. Basically, no substance to argue against. Guess what. High health mobs, High damage, Enrage Timers, High armor etc are also consider a challenge. Majority of the player base hates it because it limits build choices.

I want interesting mobs. I do not care about of the difficulty of the mob itself when the mob itself is engaging it. I wanted Anet to expose their ai system to allow players to tinker with it. These days, players added content is future of games.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Configurable-weights-in-Tamini-s-Game-areana/first#post6426553

So you think Anet should first consider making AI more advanced? In my post, yes I didn’t go into how mobs should react or how they should change because of the increased difficulty. My take would be the same take, that was implemented in Guild wars 1.

1. Higher attributes
2. Move and attack more often
3. Responds more quickly to aoe
4. Less likely to ball around a single target if there are more targets
5. More likely to kite
6. Have more skills available to them that were not there before.
7. Possible higher mob count

Most of the stuff you point out is already implemented. I am starting to believe that Anet default just suck.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1021848/Building-a-Better-Centaur-AI

I guess I fail to realize Anet has already implemented the vast majority of what I wanted. I guess Aegis and passive blocks does break the ai.

From the looks of it, all we need to do is tinker with the values.

Yes, Anet is doing this. I’ve noticed slightly better AI in the expansion and in fractals. But the current AI in dungeons remain untouched besides breakbars on bosses.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

We’d be waiting a lot longer for new content if ANet had to stop to work on hardmode dungeons. The “endless mob” challenge is, on the surface, a lot easier to set up, but even that would require managing the levels and rewards. I’d far prefer to see newer content, rather than a rehash of older content.

One could say, endless mode with Guild leaderboard support is already new content. And its content that can exist forever because of the rising difficulty and competition to be the best guild with the highest points. Same can be said if they added a new map; which would take longer to implement, possibly have more bugs, and would have to have continued individual reason to keep going back.

Of course, we all know Anet will continue to add new maps. Where as with the endless mode, you already have a base to build upon (Taimi’s Game) Not much lore needs to be introduced. It would take a lot less work, and still be considered new content.

As for the hard mode dungeons, this isn’t anything new. Many MMO’s have harder modes of their past content while also introducing better rewards. It gives a reason to replay and diversify what you do in-game. And besides, its not a crazy idea to see the Devs re-touch old content. Anet has already done this many times in the past, and so has almost all other MMO’s.

Dragon.8762:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

We’d be waiting a lot longer for new content if ANet had to stop to work on hardmode dungeons. The “endless mob” challenge is, on the surface, a lot easier to set up, but even that would require managing the levels and rewards. I’d far prefer to see newer content, rather than a rehash of older content.

One could say, endless mode with Guild leaderboard support is already new content. And its content that can exist forever because of the rising difficulty and competition to be the best guild with the highest points. Same can be said if they added a new map; which would take longer to implement, possibly have more bugs, and would have to have continued individual reason to keep going back.

Of course, we all know Anet will continue to add new maps. Where as with the endless mode, you already have a base to build upon (Taimi’s Game) Not much lore needs to be introduced. It would take a lot less work, and still be considered new content.

As for the hard mode dungeons, this isn’t anything new. Many MMO’s have harder modes of their past content while also introducing better rewards. It gives a reason to replay and diversify what you do in-game. And besides, its not a crazy idea to see the Devs re-touch old content. Anet has already done this many times in the past, and so has almost all other MMO’s.

Of course Endless Mode would be a new type of content, it’s just not free to add or maintain. And the resources that go into it are no longer available to other types of new content.

No one is saying it’s crazy to consider ways that devs could re-use existing content. I’m saying that I’d prefer other types of new content, especially given what I expect the relative costs/benefits to be.

At this point, we’re chock full of ‘difficult’ kitten to do. If the devs ever have a go at dungeons again they need to be chill. Like ‘grab anyone and go’ type difficulty. Adujsted to the new elite specs, for sure, but way more chill than everything else.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Of course Endless Mode would be a new type of content, it’s just not free to add or maintain. And the resources that go into it are no longer available to other types of new content.

No one is saying it’s crazy to consider ways that devs could re-use existing content. I’m saying that I’d prefer other types of new content, especially given what I expect the relative costs/benefits to be.

Yep, sometimes I always feel MMORPG have the ago old problem of players getting bored of old content.

I believe the first MMORPG can be more sustainable if the company embraces player made content.

Lord Gaben always says that no matter how much devs put out content they can never out produce their own player base.

So far, I believe Eve online is the only game that embraces player because everything in the economy is powered by players. I wonder what Anet can do to build a community pve game.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Dragon.8762:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

We’d be waiting a lot longer for new content if ANet had to stop to work on hardmode dungeons. The “endless mob” challenge is, on the surface, a lot easier to set up, but even that would require managing the levels and rewards. I’d far prefer to see newer content, rather than a rehash of older content.

One could say, endless mode with Guild leaderboard support is already new content. And its content that can exist forever because of the rising difficulty and competition to be the best guild with the highest points. Same can be said if they added a new map; which would take longer to implement, possibly have more bugs, and would have to have continued individual reason to keep going back.

Of course, we all know Anet will continue to add new maps. Where as with the endless mode, you already have a base to build upon (Taimi’s Game) Not much lore needs to be introduced. It would take a lot less work, and still be considered new content.

As for the hard mode dungeons, this isn’t anything new. Many MMO’s have harder modes of their past content while also introducing better rewards. It gives a reason to replay and diversify what you do in-game. And besides, its not a crazy idea to see the Devs re-touch old content. Anet has already done this many times in the past, and so has almost all other MMO’s.

Of course Endless Mode would be a new type of content, it’s just not free to add or maintain. And the resources that go into it are no longer available to other types of new content.

No one is saying it’s crazy to consider ways that devs could re-use existing content. I’m saying that I’d prefer other types of new content, especially given what I expect the relative costs/benefits to be.

That is an unknown, to suggest Anet can not produce new types of content during Guild Wars 2’s life span. It is also an unknown if time spent on creating such content would diminish continued content thats already in the game. One being a re-touch and the other, a new mode.

These suggestions doesn’t need to happen now. Most game devs prioritize for a month before moving on to something else, depending. I just think investing time into long term repeatable content will be better for the game compared to only focusing on content many people will play for a few weeks and then stop. (Living story) Not saying they should stop living story to work on this, but possibly adding something simiular in a expansion.

I refer back to Guild Wars 1’s challenge Missions:
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Challenge_Mission

Even WoW has such modes that are kinda simiular: Proving Grounds (Bronze, silver, gold, and endless trials with leaderboard support) As well as a challenge mode for dungeons with leaderboard support.

loseridoit.2756:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Of course Endless Mode would be a new type of content, it’s just not free to add or maintain. And the resources that go into it are no longer available to other types of new content.

No one is saying it’s crazy to consider ways that devs could re-use existing content. I’m saying that I’d prefer other types of new content, especially given what I expect the relative costs/benefits to be.

Yep, sometimes I always feel MMORPG have the ago old problem of players getting bored of old content.

I believe the first MMORPG can be more sustainable if the company embraces player made content.

Lord Gaben always says that no matter how much devs put out content they can never out produce their own player base.

So far, I believe Eve online is the only game that embraces player because everything in the economy is powered by players. I wonder what Anet can do to build a community pve game.

One way you could go about something like this, is by implementing leaderboards. It’ll push people to keep going back to get better and promote competition. Look at the recent spvp update for example. For the people at the top, not only are they competing for the rewards (some of them don’t even care for it) but they are also competing to be as high as possible on the leaderboards for all to see.

The question is how long will players play a game mode like your “endless” idea or hardmode dungeons.
As for dungeons, they are old, that’s the problem. People will play it once or twice and then realize it’s the same old stuff they ran a gazillion times – most of their time due to gold reward not because of fun – and stop running it afterwards.
I also think you underestimate the difficulty to get back to dungeon development. They are just not able to. Some of the old content (LS1, dungeons and more…) is a mess in terms of programming, they rly f_cked that up back in the days and the effort to go into detail is too high and expensive.
I guess you believe that it’s just: “Hey, let’s go back to dungeons and revamp them like we did with other content.”, and here I repeat that they weren’t even able to fix the simplest bugs years ago. Then, how on earth would they be able to revamp them?
That’s why they moved their 5-men-priority to fractals.

Edit:
Leaderboards are not wanted by a huge majority and how do you prevent people from using exploits in PvE to get to the top placings if you have so many bugs and exploit possibilities in dungeons? Even in fractals and raids you can easily exploit several things.
Have a look into the smartphone app gaming business. Cheaters everywhere and top placings are achieved via exploits and shenanigans.

Dragon.8762:

loseridoit.2756:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Of course Endless Mode would be a new type of content, it’s just not free to add or maintain. And the resources that go into it are no longer available to other types of new content.

No one is saying it’s crazy to consider ways that devs could re-use existing content. I’m saying that I’d prefer other types of new content, especially given what I expect the relative costs/benefits to be.

Yep, sometimes I always feel MMORPG have the ago old problem of players getting bored of old content.

I believe the first MMORPG can be more sustainable if the company embraces player made content.

Lord Gaben always says that no matter how much devs put out content they can never out produce their own player base.

So far, I believe Eve online is the only game that embraces player because everything in the economy is powered by players. I wonder what Anet can do to build a community pve game.

One way you could go about something like this, is by implementing leaderboards. It’ll push people to keep going back to get better and promote competition. Look at the recent spvp update for example. For the people at the top, not only are they competing for the rewards (some of them don’t even care for it) but they are also competing to be as high as possible on the leaderboards for all to see.

actually no.

Leaderboards only attract a small portion of the community.

If anything, it will only encourage elitism. Raids have the same problem.

loseridoit.2756:

Dragon.8762:

loseridoit.2756:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Of course Endless Mode would be a new type of content, it’s just not free to add or maintain. And the resources that go into it are no longer available to other types of new content.

No one is saying it’s crazy to consider ways that devs could re-use existing content. I’m saying that I’d prefer other types of new content, especially given what I expect the relative costs/benefits to be.

Yep, sometimes I always feel MMORPG have the ago old problem of players getting bored of old content.

I believe the first MMORPG can be more sustainable if the company embraces player made content.

Lord Gaben always says that no matter how much devs put out content they can never out produce their own player base.

So far, I believe Eve online is the only game that embraces player because everything in the economy is powered by players. I wonder what Anet can do to build a community pve game.

One way you could go about something like this, is by implementing leaderboards. It’ll push people to keep going back to get better and promote competition. Look at the recent spvp update for example. For the people at the top, not only are they competing for the rewards (some of them don’t even care for it) but they are also competing to be as high as possible on the leaderboards for all to see.

actually no.

Leaderboards only attract a small portion of the community.

If anything, it will only encourage elitism. Raids have the same problem.

Thats why I suggested it only be for Guilds.

Dragon.8762:

loseridoit.2756:

Dragon.8762:

loseridoit.2756:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Of course Endless Mode would be a new type of content, it’s just not free to add or maintain. And the resources that go into it are no longer available to other types of new content.

No one is saying it’s crazy to consider ways that devs could re-use existing content. I’m saying that I’d prefer other types of new content, especially given what I expect the relative costs/benefits to be.

Yep, sometimes I always feel MMORPG have the ago old problem of players getting bored of old content.

I believe the first MMORPG can be more sustainable if the company embraces player made content.

Lord Gaben always says that no matter how much devs put out content they can never out produce their own player base.

So far, I believe Eve online is the only game that embraces player because everything in the economy is powered by players. I wonder what Anet can do to build a community pve game.

One way you could go about something like this, is by implementing leaderboards. It’ll push people to keep going back to get better and promote competition. Look at the recent spvp update for example. For the people at the top, not only are they competing for the rewards (some of them don’t even care for it) but they are also competing to be as high as possible on the leaderboards for all to see.

actually no.

Leaderboards only attract a small portion of the community.

If anything, it will only encourage elitism. Raids have the same problem.

Thats why I suggested it only be for Guilds.

so experience is highly dependent on the type of guild you join.

I do not have enough experience/samples/forum qq/etc to remotely evaluate that statement.

Endless mode is great idea. +1

Vinceman.4572:

The question is how long will players play a game mode like your “endless” idea or hardmode dungeons.
As for dungeons, they are old, that’s the problem. People will play it once or twice and then realize it’s the same old stuff they ran a gazillion times – most of their time due to gold reward not because of fun – and stop running it afterwards.
I also think you underestimate the difficulty to get back to dungeon development. They are just not able to. Some of the old content (LS1, dungeons and more…) is a mess in terms of programming, they rly f_cked that up back in the days and the effort to go into detail is too high and expensive.
I guess you believe that it’s just: “Hey, let’s go back to dungeons and revamp them like we did with other content.”, and here I repeat that they weren’t even able to fix the simplest bugs years ago. Then, how on earth would they be able to revamp them?
That’s why they moved their 5-men-priority to fractals.

Edit:
Leaderboards are not wanted by a huge majority and how do you prevent people from using exploits in PvE to get to the top placings if you have so many bugs and exploit possibilities in dungeons? Even in fractals and raids you can easily exploit several things.
Have a look into the smartphone app gaming business. Cheaters everywhere and top placings are achieved via exploits and shenanigans.

I hear you on the going back and development process. Yes it will take time to implement. But so will anything else they choose to add into the game. It also depends on how they could possibly go about it. Such as adding in an optional challenge mote simiular to what you find already in fractals. Harder difficulty should always equal to better rewards, and better rewards are the reasons why people may decide to head back.

To clarify, I had only mentioned leaderboards be a feature for endless mode and have it only be Guild based. And yes, leaderboards are something I believe many people would appreciate seeing. Theres already a few examples of game types being played with competition in mind that don’t even have leaderboards but if they did it would be better. Such as the EU GVG tournaments, the speed running community, and the recent raid tournament that was hosted by Mighty Teapot on Twitch. I’m not saying Anet should work on that however. Just endless mode. I would like to see more incentive to push further, even if it is all for the prestige.

As for the exploits, thats why things should always be tested before they are implemented. Same logic can be applied to everything, old and new.

loseridoit.2756:

Dragon.8762:

loseridoit.2756:

Dragon.8762:

loseridoit.2756:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Of course Endless Mode would be a new type of content, it’s just not free to add or maintain. And the resources that go into it are no longer available to other types of new content.

No one is saying it’s crazy to consider ways that devs could re-use existing content. I’m saying that I’d prefer other types of new content, especially given what I expect the relative costs/benefits to be.

Yep, sometimes I always feel MMORPG have the ago old problem of players getting bored of old content.

I believe the first MMORPG can be more sustainable if the company embraces player made content.

Lord Gaben always says that no matter how much devs put out content they can never out produce their own player base.

So far, I believe Eve online is the only game that embraces player because everything in the economy is powered by players. I wonder what Anet can do to build a community pve game.

One way you could go about something like this, is by implementing leaderboards. It’ll push people to keep going back to get better and promote competition. Look at the recent spvp update for example. For the people at the top, not only are they competing for the rewards (some of them don’t even care for it) but they are also competing to be as high as possible on the leaderboards for all to see.

actually no.

Leaderboards only attract a small portion of the community.

If anything, it will only encourage elitism. Raids have the same problem.

Thats why I suggested it only be for Guilds.

so experience is highly dependent on the type of guild you join.

I do not have enough experience/samples/forum qq/etc to remotely evaluate that statement.

The reason for this is, I don’t want it so people are kicked from pugs because they suck. That promotes elitism like many others have described. It would be better if guild members would come together to take on the challenges together. Since they are all apart of the same guild, it would be less likely people would be super salty to each other.

That and, people could also come together and form guilds around speed clearing. As of right now there are very few of them. (Snow Crows and QT to name a few) These guilds pretty much decide the pve meta and have taken it upon themselves to say they are the best pve guild in all of guild wars 2. Many others who’ve seen their videos, twitch streams, and website would also agree. I think it would be really cool if new guilds would form to take them off their top spot.

Dragon.8762:

I hear you on the going back and development process. Yes it will take time to implement. But so will anything else they choose to add into the game. It also depends on how they could possibly go about it. Such as adding in an optional challenge mote simiular to what you find already in fractals. Harder difficulty should always equal to better rewards, and better rewards are the reasons why people may decide to head back.

To clarify, I had only mentioned leaderboards be a feature for endless mode and have it only be Guild based. And yes, leaderboards are something I believe many people would appreciate seeing. Theres already a few examples of game types being played with competition in mind that don’t even have leaderboards but if they did it would be better. Such as the EU GVG tournaments, the speed running community, and the recent raid tournament that was hosted by Mighty Teapot on Twitch. I’m not saying Anet should work on that however. Just endless mode. I would like to see more incentive to push further, even if it is all for the prestige.

As for the exploits, thats why things should always be tested before they are implemented. Same logic can be applied to everything, old and new.

But you still didn’t get it. The work to implement new stuff with a challenge mode is way easier than to work on old dungeons. So much has changed and they will never be able to open that box of pandora. Your first post is 4 years ago, if you have followed ongoing discussions about dungeons over the time you would know that’s impossible.

Also, you cannot compare leaderboards to the raid tournament or a GvG tournament and draw conclusions out of it. That simply doesn’t work. These things are completely different stuff.

Vinceman.4572:

Dragon.8762:

I hear you on the going back and development process. Yes it will take time to implement. But so will anything else they choose to add into the game. It also depends on how they could possibly go about it. Such as adding in an optional challenge mote simiular to what you find already in fractals. Harder difficulty should always equal to better rewards, and better rewards are the reasons why people may decide to head back.

To clarify, I had only mentioned leaderboards be a feature for endless mode and have it only be Guild based. And yes, leaderboards are something I believe many people would appreciate seeing. Theres already a few examples of game types being played with competition in mind that don’t even have leaderboards but if they did it would be better. Such as the EU GVG tournaments, the speed running community, and the recent raid tournament that was hosted by Mighty Teapot on Twitch. I’m not saying Anet should work on that however. Just endless mode. I would like to see more incentive to push further, even if it is all for the prestige.

As for the exploits, thats why things should always be tested before they are implemented. Same logic can be applied to everything, old and new.

But you still didn’t get it. The work to implement new stuff with a challenge mode is way easier than to work on old dungeons. So much has changed and they will never be able to open that box of pandora. Your first post is 4 years ago, if you have followed ongoing discussions about dungeons over the time you would know that’s impossible.

Also, you cannot compare leaderboards to the raid tournament or a GvG tournament and draw conclusions out of it. That simply doesn’t work. These things are completely different stuff.

Nah I do get it, however that shouldn’t stop the community or a community member from wanting a dungeon revamp or even warranting that it is impossible to revamp.

However, I would like some clarification from you. When you say “The work to implement new stuff with a challenge mode is way easier,” do you mean it is easier to create a brand new instance with all the related new instance features (map, lore, mobs, traps, etc) compared to just revamping dungeon enemy AI and rewards? If so, I somewhat agree. But then again I’m not a programmer.

As for my leaderboard comment, it was a somewhat off topic comment in relation to generating competition between guilds via leaderboards. The technology for it already exists if you look at current spvp and adventures. My point was, that leaderboards encourage people to keep going, and inspires new comers to try harder if they choose to seek it. A jab towards leaderboards, not towards hard mode dungeons or endless mode, even though I would like endless mode to come with leaderboards via guilds only.

Dragon.8762:

Nah I do get it, however that shouldn’t stop the community or a community member from wanting a dungeon revamp or even warranting that it is impossible to revamp.

We claimed that years ago and they decided to not do this and added that with HoT their 5-men-content are fractals. So, we should stop arguing like children like “But I still want to have it.” Sometimes you need to let it go.

Dragon.8762:

However, I would like some clarification from you. When you say “The work to implement new stuff with a challenge mode is way easier,” do you mean it is easier to create a brand new instance with all the related new instance features (map, lore, mobs, traps, etc) compared to just revamping dungeon enemy AI and rewards? If so, I somewhat agree. But then again I’m not a programmer.

Maybe you don’t know the backgrounds:
- The dungeon developers left Anet relative shortly after release of the core game and according to the main dungeon developer it hasn’t been the best breakup, they still had plans but couldn’t realize them.
- Afterwards a significant group of players has asked for changes, bugfixing and other things again and again and again. They weren’t able to do so. With HoT we finally got something with the first raid and it’s going to continue with the next raid soon + the challenge mode of fractals like we’ve seen with the nightmare fractal
- Additionally, Anet has and had problems to “transfer” events and other old stuff like SAB, crown pavilion to the actual conditions. The old dungeons are more complex like these events and without the available know-how it’s impossible for a programmer to restructure it. As far as I am used to programming, I would say it is easier to design them completely new, which means deleting everything but the maps and start from there. Of course, this would take too long and would be too expensive to maintain especially because it is old content and not really worth the effort if you take a look at the numbers of players playing it.
- Fractals are not that complex so it’s easier to add new stuff there. They also provide just a little bit of lore and not a huge history. Look at the LS3, they have 3 teams and bring out a very tiny bit of story every 2 months. And now try to transfer that to a dungeon. You would have to wait a half a year or more to get one new dungeon path.

That’s why I disagree to let them work on dungeons again. Their content releases already are too slow to keep many players excited. It would lead to a heavy content drought again, only for a revamp that wouldn’t interest enough players.
I’d rather have the next raid wing soon and a continuous release of new fractals with something like the new challenge mode.