Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

Hypairion.9210:

Again, they could, but soon after it falls off the front page someone else would just start a new one. If you really want this topic to go away permanently, then they need to actually make changes to the game that would resolve the underlying issues. “Do nothing” won’t accomplish that, however much you wish it would.

by someone else, you meen you or astral, that’s it? because so far i only see almost you.

Fun fact – i haven’s started a single Raid-related thread so far. Not sure about Ohoni (can’t check it due to merges), but at the moment at least i don’t see any that was started by him. Some of those threads were started by raiders, actually.

Would be indeed fun if it was raid related. That’s why we complain, most of the post here are made by non raiders not liking raid or that didnt want to raid, but still wanting the raid rewards…

Miellyn.6847:

What obvious flaws? Thats raids are working as intended? Or that you can’t get legendary armor outside of raids?

Raids working as intended but they are already discussing about adding easy mode, uh-huh. Btw, do you have any internal anet design documents to back up your “as intended” claim?

Rednik.3809:

Miellyn.6847:

What obvious flaws? Thats raids are working as intended? Or that you can’t get legendary armor outside of raids?

Raids working as intended but they are already discussing about adding easy mode, uh-huh. Btw, do you have any internal anet design documents to back up your “as intended” claim?

Yes they said in the AMA, raid participation is higher than expected.

Would be indeed fun if it was raid related. That’s why we complain, most of the post here are made by non raiders not liking raid or that didnt want to raid, but still wanting the raid rewards…

And what’s wrong with that? You seem to talk like raids are their own product, that first and last all they have to do is make “raiders” happy, and so long as “raiders” are happy, that’s all that matters. Well they aren’t. Raids are just one component of GW2, that interacts with the entire rest of the game, and anything involving raids has to also consider EVERY player of GW2, and how those decisions impact their play experience in the rest of the game. “non-raiders” have every bit as much right to comment on raiding as “raiders” do, if they believe that they can make the overall experience better for more players of Guild Wars 2 as a whole.

Yes they said in the AMA, raid participation is higher than expected.

why do people consistently mis-quote that? They said that participation was higher than in other MMOs, not that it was higher than expected. Although the latter may be true as well, they never said that.

Astralporing.1957:

Some of those threads were started by raiders, actually.

All those threads asked for a smooth difficulty curve and not a grindy 8 months long timegate for a legendary armor.

Ohoni.6057:

My point is that it’s not a gate in the first place. As Meillyn said, people have beaten the raid bosses in greens. If you wanted Ascended, and got Ascended, then good for you, but ANet does not owe you anything if they introduce a different mode that does not require it.

But you’ve said a several pages back, they’re the exceptions, not the rule. We can think of raids as something that’s balanced around ascended meaning those who completed it has equipped ascended OR we can use your example, since people completed it in masterwork gear and think of completing raids in ascended as easy mode. I’ll leave the choice up to you.

Ohoni.6057:

Everyone tells me that I should give numbers because they know that I can’t, they can’t NOBODY can, and they’d like me to shut up. Numbers are impossible to provide because we have no means of determining numbers. But we can make reasoned estimates, Fermi calculations based on known factors.

I can agree with that, just not with your estimates. You claim to represent the majority of players on the sole reason more people don’t play raid than do, but that doesn’t consider how many people don’t actually care about any kind of instanced content. To give you my estimate, the part of the GW2 playerbase you’re representing are those in between who play raids and those who play dungeons but don’t play raids, which is about as big as the raid community itself.

But you’ve said a several pages back, they’re the exceptions, not the rule. We can think of raids as something that’s balanced around ascended meaning those who completed it has equipped ascended OR we can use your example, since people completed it in masterwork gear and think of completing raids in ascended as easy mode. I’ll leave the choice up to you.

Well look, I think they should be easier, and honestly, a lot of that has more to do with reducing the auto-kill mechanics than the stat tuning, but the stat tuning should probably be reduced as well. But that said, it is still not technically a gear gate because you don’t absolutely need the gear to pass it. It’s more like a “gear hurdle.”

In any case, ANet never made any promises that raids would definitely require Ascended armor, much less that they would never put out a version that didn’t, so at the end of the day, if you invested in Ascended armor solely so that you could beat raids with it, and they add an easier mode and you feel that your Ascended armor is now no longer worth it, well that’s just too bad, thy don’t owe you anything in compensation, and ultimately far more people would benefit than would be harmed in any way by the change. You can’t please everyone.

To give you my estimate, the part of the GW2 playerbase you’re representing are those in between who play raids and those who play dungeons but don’t play raids, which is about as big as the raid community itself.

Yes, I would count those, but there are groups you aren’t factoring in. There are also players who do not currently dungeon much, but who did at one point and got burned out because it was the same content for the past three years. I believe there are a significant number here, and are likely to engage an easy mode raid if it were available because it would be new dungeon type content. New content is new content, so long as it’s reasonably fun. The existing raids fail at this purpose for a lot of players because it’s impossible to get more than ten minutes into it without wiping a bunch of times, and most players don’t enjoy that experience.

The second factor is the armor chase itself. I think there are plenty of people who aren’t necessarily huge dungeon fans, but don’t absolutely hate them either, and feel completely left out by the current risk factor of the raids, but if there were a lower risk option, that would allow them to progress towards Envoy armor, they would be content enough to pursue that path.

Now of course the response is “but Ohoni, those players will just leave once they get their armor,” which is likely true, but the same applies to the existing raids, and people seem to think those were a good idea, and however long it would take a person to clear the easy mode raid requirements for Envoy armor, it would be more time than it would take to earn it from the existing raids, so in no scenario would it result in a player burning out from raids earlier than under the existing raids.