Guild Wars 2

Avarice.2791:

Well, debates and discussions usually require one to back up their points. You do make a lot of points though….lots of points….

Nothing stopping you from Googling them (or use Bing if that’s your thing) , the Information is at your fingertips.

STIHL.2489:

Avarice.2791:

Well, debates and discussions usually require one to back up their points. You do make a lot of points though….lots of points….

Nothing stopping you from Googling them (or use Bing if that’s your thing) , the Information is at your fingertips.

So, this is your validation on points you make. Lol, there’s no discussion with you mate. Well. I say hard-core players make up the majority of the community. Go google that. Oh wait, only Anet has these statistics. If you’re going to make blanket-statement claims be ready to back them up. Don’t tell me to do the work when it’s not even there. Fallacies! Fallacies everywhere!!!!! Make these forums great again!!!! The entire community exists within these complaint forums!!!!

Avarice.2791:

Make these forums great again!!!!

we should build a wall in front of the raid and make the casuals pay for it

Avarice.2791:

Do you have evidence regarding this?

The evidence is practically every other MMO out there (well, at least since and including WoW). This is so common knowledge i didn’t even think someone might want to dispute it. But if you want to claim that the majority of the players are hardcores, do so, i will be able to safely ignore you from that point on.

Avarice.2791:

Well, debates and discussions usually require one to back up their points.

Maybe you could start backing up yours then, before you start asking others to do so?

Sarrs.4831:

Avarice.2791:

Make these forums great again!!!!

we should build a wall in front of the raid and make the casuals pay for it

Casuals helped build that wall, so all they want is a gateway. Until then, you’ll see the gold and ecto smugglers paying for passage through.

Sarrs.4831:

It’s literally
Get ascended gear of your stats: I did this a year ago idk about you
Get some scheduling done: Needing friends for this content is exactly the appeal

That’s it. You can now make attempts and I look forward to your first VG kill.

Yeah, except when no one will allow the “ascended gear of your stats” that you spent several months making into raids, because it doesn’t figure into a meta build…

CherryChiicake.1378:

Sarrs.4831:

It’s literally
Get ascended gear of your stats: I did this a year ago idk about you
Get some scheduling done: Needing friends for this content is exactly the appeal

That’s it. You can now make attempts and I look forward to your first VG kill.

Yeah, except when no one will allow the “ascended gear of your stats” that you spent several months making into raids, because it doesn’t figure into a meta build…

You can stat change ascended gear in the mystic forge. And almost all meta builds use berserker or viper.

And then I lose 100g in runes.

CherryChiicake.1378:

And then I lose 100g in runes.

True – I would caution anyone putting expensive runes in an off-meta ascended set. You’ll probably only need to eat this cost once though.

Well see, it’s a sinister set. Viper didn’t exist at the time, so it was the best for my condi damage build when I made it. Which sorta points out the problem with the “only having to do it once”, too, since what’s meta can and will change based on any new stat sets that get introduced, any balance patches that happen to buff or nerf whatever skill is doing the most or least damage at any given time, new elite specs, etc.

Somewhat OT but it would be a lot easier to gear appropriately for raids if we had a non cash shop option for getting our runes out of ascended stuff. I don’t have the gold to eat that cost every couple months and still work toward my other game goals.

CherryChiicake.1378:

Well see, it’s a sinister set. Viper didn’t exist at the time, so it was the best for my condi damage build when I made it. Which sorta points out the problem with the “only having to do it once”, too, since what’s meta can and will change based on any new stat sets that get introduced, any balance patches that happen to buff or nerf whatever skill is doing the most or least damage at any given time, new elite specs, etc.

Somewhat OT but it would be a lot easier to gear appropriately for raids if we had a non cash shop option for getting our runes out of ascended stuff. I don’t have the gold to eat that cost every couple months and still work toward my other game goals.

Personally, I would take someone with sinister’s into raids while encouraging them to switch to vipers when they are able. I feel you, I switched everything to vipers with HOT, but it’s been 4 months now.

CherryChiicake.1378:

Yeah, except when no one will allow the “ascended gear of your stats” that you spent several months making into raids, because it doesn’t figure into a meta build…

Maybe research and plan ahead a little.

Y’know if you can’t manage going to metabattle and checking what a strong build for your class is, you probably aren’t up to snuff to raid.

CherryChiicake.1378:

Well see, it’s a sinister set.

Sinister is, imo, perfectly viable. Depending on class and the runes you take it’s better than Viper’s.

Y’know if you can’t manage going to metabattle and checking what a strong build for your class is, you probably aren’t up to snuff to raid.

This is why we’re discussing an easier gameplay mode, so that going to “metabattle” is less of a requirement. Come as you are, it’ll be ok.

Ohoni.6057:

This is why we’re discussing an easier gameplay mode, so that going to “metabattle” is less of a requirement. Come as you are, it’ll be ok.

Consider the context of what you’ve quoted.

Ohoni.6057:

Y’know if you can’t manage going to metabattle and checking what a strong build for your class is, you probably aren’t up to snuff to raid.

This is why we’re discussing an easier gameplay mode, so that going to “metabattle” is less of a requirement. Come as you are, it’ll be ok.

Go do a dungeon or a fractal. They contain the easy mode you desire.

Requiring certain gear in group content is ok. Otherwise, you are being carried or wasting everyone’s time.

Consider the context of what you’ve quoted.

Yes, you should do that.

Go do a dungeon or a fractal. They contain the easy mode you desire.

Huh. Where is the Salvation Pass dungeon or Fractal? I wasn’t aware of that one.

Requiring certain gear in group content is ok. Otherwise, you are being carried or wasting everyone’s time.

Not if the content is designed to not require specific builds.

Ohoni.6057:

Y’know if you can’t manage going to metabattle and checking what a strong build for your class is, you probably aren’t up to snuff to raid.

This is why we’re discussing an easier gameplay mode, so that going to “metabattle” is less of a requirement. Come as you are, it’ll be ok.

That defeats the entire purpose of the designed content. It’s not supposed to be come as you are. It’s supposed to be “Oh hey that didn’t work, lets adapt.” Eventually, you as a group overcome the encounter by learning and adapting and bringing the tools needed for the encounter, and yes this includes your gear.

Ohoni.6057:

Not if the content is designed to not require specific builds.

but groupcontent is especially made for: use your brainz, make a teambuild.

and you still don’t have to run a complete meta comp. you want certain positions be filled with somebody who can do the job and thats it.
like tanking @ vale guard. i saw eles, guardians, mesmer, warrior, thief and whatnot.

i bet it would be even possible that you take two engineers wich play with elexier stuff + traits to get 25 might for the whole party and it would just work, since the timer is not that harsh.

you don’t need specific builds or one class can only play x. thats just for the meta, means what is most effective OR with wich build can you pug easily or pugs expect you to run so it works without making any big fuss about it.

what you need, are specific roles, like 1 tank, 3 condi, 1 healer, x dmg dealer, x supporter…it doesn’t matter who it does in the end. sure, some are better at this stuff then others or can simply can give more stuff to the group…but in the end it doesn’t make a difference when a silly teamcomp also can beat the encounter…thats for sure.

Raids need to be harder.

Davey.7029:

Raids need to be harder.

I dunno, I do think raids need a range. It’d be great if there were a few bosses that were tougher. I think they make a decent floor atm.

That defeats the entire purpose of the designed content. It’s not supposed to be come as you are. It’s supposed to be “Oh hey that didn’t work, lets adapt.” Eventually, you as a group overcome the encounter by learning and adapting and bringing the tools needed for the encounter, and yes this includes your gear.

And that’s why I am not suggesting they make ANY changes to the existing raids. That clearly is part of the point of the existing raids and should remain intact. But for those players who do not want to meet the requirements of the existing raids, an easier mode would allow them to enjoy the content as well.

you don’t need specific builds or one class can only play x. thats just for the meta, means what is most effective OR with wich build can you pug easily or pugs expect you to run so it works without making any big fuss about it.

And yet if low-skill “just for fun” teams also have non-optimal builds, chances are it will not work out for them. The very people who can best pull off a “non-meta” party are those least likely to need one. I’m saying that there should be a mode in which the average player who doesn’t know any better can come in what he’s got and still succeed.

Ok, having read everything back and forth now. I am more convinced then ever, that Anet needs to put in a “Story Mode” for their Raid.

Not varying scales, not make a easier raid. But make a Dungeon Difficulty style Story Mode, for the casual player.

From everything I have read, and see, honestly, there is nothing gained by trying to conscript or coheres casuals players into doing what is hardcore content. Just as there was nothing gained from trying to enforce PvE players into doing WvW Content, and that was why they removed the WvW requirement from Map Completion, that same reason is why they should make a Story Mode for the Raid.

It’s not the raid that was a bad idea, it was trying to force everyone into the same skill bracket that was the bad idea.

And a side note, I would like to see some rewards given for WvW Map Completion, maybe put a Legendary Armor Series into WvW as well.

Ohoni.6057:

Go do a dungeon or a fractal. They contain the easy mode you desire.

Huh. Where is the Salvation Pass dungeon or Fractal? I wasn’t aware of that one.

Requiring certain gear in group content is ok. Otherwise, you are being carried or wasting everyone’s time.

Not if the content is designed to not require specific builds.

Saying there is no salvation pass dungeon or fractal is not really a response to this argument. It’s really “No, I want easy mode raids.” Despite that other content — like arah, like liadri, like jumping puzzles — has no easy mode.

Arah was arguably the hardest instanced content prior to raids. It has important lore elements and unique drops. Its tokens are required for bifrost. Seems like the current raid situation to me.

I’m not opposed to eventually adding an alternative method to acquiring legendary armor (like pvp tracks were added for dungeons). But that doesn’t mean that anet needs to waste developer resources to produce easy mode raids, when there is already so much content that fills that criteria.

As for requiring certain builds, that is only half true. Raids really require certain roles. Like dps, condition damage, tank, reflect, boon strip, or cc. Many different classes can fill these roles.

That doesn’t mean that you can bring whatever you want. Not all builds are good. Just like not all stat combinations are good for certain content. What’s good in pve is not necessarily good for pvp or wvw. Adapt your build and gear based on the content you play.

It’s funny how people feel like they’re entitled to something. I’d be okay if they made a story mode that gave little to no reward. Raids are supposed to be challenging content, I already personally feel raids are too easy.

CherryChiicake.1378:

Well see, it’s a sinister set. Viper didn’t exist at the time, so it was the best for my condi damage build when I made it. Which sorta points out the problem with the “only having to do it once”, too, since what’s meta can and will change based on any new stat sets that get introduced, any balance patches that happen to buff or nerf whatever skill is doing the most or least damage at any given time, new elite specs, etc.

Somewhat OT but it would be a lot easier to gear appropriately for raids if we had a non cash shop option for getting our runes out of ascended stuff. I don’t have the gold to eat that cost every couple months and still work toward my other game goals.

Pugs really kick you for having Sinister gear instead of Viper?? WoW that’s a new level of stupid. But what profession are you using exactly, but it might be more about that then your gear. Just trying to help you out.

For example, if you say you are playing Reaper. It’s a popular profession in Wing 2, but not so much for wing 1. Engineer is popular in VG and a little at Slothazor and Gorsveval, but not really for Sabetha.

Each bosses vary by a lot, which is a good thing, but also mean that certain profession are better at some boss and less at other.

Thaddeus.4891:

CherryChiicake.1378:

Well see, it’s a sinister set. Viper didn’t exist at the time, so it was the best for my condi damage build when I made it. Which sorta points out the problem with the “only having to do it once”, too, since what’s meta can and will change based on any new stat sets that get introduced, any balance patches that happen to buff or nerf whatever skill is doing the most or least damage at any given time, new elite specs, etc.

Somewhat OT but it would be a lot easier to gear appropriately for raids if we had a non cash shop option for getting our runes out of ascended stuff. I don’t have the gold to eat that cost every couple months and still work toward my other game goals.

Pugs really kick you for having Sinister gear instead of Viper?? WoW that’s a new level of stupid. But what profession are you using exactly, but it might be more about that then your gear. Just trying to help you out.

For example, if you say you are playing Reaper. It’s a popular profession in Wing 2, but not so much for wing 1. Engineer is popular in VG and a little at Slothazor and Gorsveval, but not really for Sabetha.

Each bosses vary by a lot, which is a good thing, but also mean that certain profession are better at some boss and less at other.

The way the post was phrased made it seem like a hypothetical problem, rather than a real one. I would also take someone in sinister. That said, it’s been 4 months since vipers came out, and the only barrier is gold.

Absurdo.8309:

The way the post was phrased made it seem like a hypothetical problem, rather than a real one. I would also take someone in sinister. That said, it’s been 4 months since vipers came out, and the only barrier is gold.

The problem seem to be more about his runes than the gear swaping. But I don’t see which pre-hot runes would cost so much in a PvE condition build. Worst case scenario it’s 6 gold per runes for a total of 36 gold. That’s nothing if you are serious about raiding.

But again, we don’t have much info about his situation, but I don’t see much group kicking him out of raid because he have Sinister.

David.4821:

It’s funny how people feel like they’re entitled to something. I’d be okay if they made a story mode that gave little to no reward. Raids are supposed to be challenging content, I already personally feel raids are too easy.

You’re right! We need to make things Harder!

We need to Require Diamond Rank Ranked PvP!

We need to require WvW Diamond Rank and WvW Map Completion as well!

Lets make this a real challenge! Why wimp out at just PvE scrub content!

Ohoni.6057:

And that’s why I am not suggesting they make ANY changes to the existing raids. That clearly is part of the point of the existing raids and should remain intact. But for those players who do not want to meet the requirements of the existing raids, an easier mode would allow them to enjoy the content as well.

But you are. By your very own admission, you want them to assign a new raid team to create a new version of the same raid, that is changing the existing content. That is something that goes against the very spirit that raids were designed around. Not only that, people who have no interest in raids in there current state should not be specially catered to because they lack the drive to improve. That’s a very poor reason to change what is a very solid addition to the game which filled a lacking spot in challenging group content. Changing this in any way devalues the entire experience and undermines the integrity of their design.

David.4821:

It’s funny how people feel like they’re entitled to something.

Agreed. Just look at them Raiders.

Astralporing.1957:

David.4821:

It’s funny how people feel like they’re entitled to something.

Agreed. Just look at them Raiders.

Zzzz this argument has no merit when the first one to bring up raids was Anet themselves in this CDI https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/first

STIHL.2489:

David.4821:

It’s funny how people feel like they’re entitled to something. I’d be okay if they made a story mode that gave little to no reward. Raids are supposed to be challenging content, I already personally feel raids are too easy.

You’re right! We need to make things Harder!

We need to Require Diamond Rank Ranked PvP!

We need to require WvW Diamond Rank and WvW Map Completion as well!

Lets make this a real challenge! Why wimp out at just PvE scrub content!

Did I ever say that? All I said was the current raids are too easy. Learn the mechanics and that’s it (assuming you’re running optimal builds and doing the optimal rotation.

Thaddeus.4891:

Absurdo.8309:

The way the post was phrased made it seem like a hypothetical problem, rather than a real one. I would also take someone in sinister. That said, it’s been 4 months since vipers came out, and the only barrier is gold.

The problem seem to be more about his runes than the gear swaping. But I don’t see which pre-hot runes would cost so much in a PvE condition build. Worst case scenario it’s 6 gold per runes for a total of 36 gold. That’s nothing if you are serious about raiding.

But again, we don’t have much info about his situation, but I don’t see much group kicking him out of raid because he have Sinister.

A ) She, and B ) Not entirely hypothetical, but I wasn’t specifically kicked out. I didn’t provide details since my particular situation isn’t the focus of this thread. My guild, which I was an officer of until recently, has two raiding groups, and during our weekly guild missions it was stated that it was absolutely required for participation that participants have meta builds and ascended armor.

The runes, since it was asked, are perplexity, and I had bought 9 total (three were in alternate pieces for this same armor set in the event that I needed more survivability).

Saying there is no salvation pass dungeon or fractal is not really a response to this argument. It’s really “No, I want easy mode raids.” Despite that other content — like arah, like liadri, like jumping puzzles — has no easy mode.

But you were suggesting that other content as an alternative to easy mode raids, and my point is, they are not alternatives, because they are different. If it’s not set in the forsaken thicket, with the same boss encounters, and a path towards the same rewards (at a slower pace), then it is not the thing that I’m asking for at all.

As for requiring certain builds, that is only half true. Raids really require certain roles. Like dps, condition damage, tank, reflect, boon strip, or cc. Many different classes can fill these roles.

That doesn’t mean that you can bring whatever you want. Not all builds are good. Just like not all stat combinations are good for certain content. What’s good in pve is not necessarily good for pvp or wvw. Adapt your build and gear based on the content you play.

But if the tolerances were not so tight, if you didn’t need to beat a certain DPS threshold by a certain time, then wearing a sub-optimal gearing might slow the fight down by a few minutes, but wouldn’t lead to a complete failure, and most casual groups would be fine with that. It’s only the tight tuning of the encounter that requires tight tuning of the characters as well. I’m not saying that any build should be “just as good” as any other, I’m just saying that for a more casual raid, any build (within reason) should be “good _enough”_ to get the job done.

The problem seem to be more about his runes than the gear swaping. But I don’t see which pre-hot runes would cost so much in a PvE condition build. Worst case scenario it’s 6 gold per runes for a total of 36 gold. That’s nothing if you are serious about raiding.

So many of these seem to boil down to “yeah, it’s a problem, but not one that should bother you too much, _if you’re serious about raiding.”_ That’s the problem, the people who are asking for an easy more raid don’t want to be “serious” about raiding. They want to raid, but they don’t want to be serious about it, they want to have fun, because it’s a game, and games are about having fun.

But you are. By your very own admission, you want them to assign a new raid team to create a new version of the same raid, that is changing the existing content.

Again though, my insistence is that the version I’m requesting would require minimal effort on their part, since it is not creating new content, it’s just copy-pasting the existing content and then tuning a few numbers down, maybe swapping out a few ability affixes. It should not take a “whole new team,” it should not even take more than a couple of devs spending a few hours on each encounter, testing aside. And again, it is not changing the existing content because the existing content would be left unchanged. I don’t know how to be more clear on that.

Not only that, people who have no interest in raids in there current state should not be specially catered to because they lack the drive to improve.

Why not? If there are enough of them that their business matters (and my working assumption is that there are many times more of them than currently raid regularly), then why not cater to them? What is the virtue in a drive to improve through constant failure? If people enjoy that sort of thing, that’s fine, but if they don’t, it’s not like there’s anything wrong with that.

Zzzz this argument has no merit when the first one to bring up raids was Anet themselves in this CDI https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/first

ANet were hardly the first to bring up raids. WoW players have been whining about how GW2 is “too casual” and “needs raid-like content” since before launch. Then they went to Wildstar, and that turned out great.They are a VERY noisy minority, and always have been.

Tired of quoting those massive walls and fixing it.

Why should anet waste any time or resources on people who like yourself have no interest in raids ?

What you want is not raids, nor is it the raiding experience. You want dungeons, and fractals. Thankfully for you those still exist, so please go play them.

Why should anet waste any time or resources on people who like yourself have no interest in raids ?

Because we’re the ones that pay to keep the game running so you have a place to raid in? I’m not sure what the question is here.

What you want is not raids, nor is it the raiding experience. You want dungeons, and fractals.

I’ve said that what I want is not the current raiding experience, but what I DO want is an easier experience that is set in the Forsaken Thicket, has all the same locations, encounters, and mechanics as the existing raids do, just toned down to involve less intense challenge, similar to how Fractal 25 and Fractal 100 are roughly the same encounter, yet 25 is far lower risk than 100.

I thought we’ve been over what I want and do not want several times already, are you just not paying attention?

The question becomes where the resources to build an easy mode will come from. I’m not going to argue about how much effort something takes since Gail Grey specifically said not to. (Link) The only designer who has done anything like that was Josh Foreman. (Kind of curious as to how many people used Infantile Mode and how much effort it took to build)

I still am sad recalling how all of of Josh Foreman’s effort’s didn’t stop the toxic backlash from the community when they weren’t satisfied with World 2 though, despite him making three different difficulty modes.

Ohoni.6057:

Because we’re the ones that pay to keep the game running so you have a place to raid in? I’m not sure what the question is here.

….And you think people playing raids aren’t equally if not more invested in the game than yourself. This is a very enlightening development.

It’s clear you don’t get it.

Why should any developer go out of there way, to make a new mode of raids when the people complaining the loudest have already stated they don’t care about raids. What you all seem to have in common instead is wanting “Legendary Armor” without actually wanting to partake in the content it’s designed around.

So please enlighten us as why they should waste time and resources on a new mode of raids ?

TexZero.7910:

Tired of quoting those massive walls and fixing it.

Ohoni wants something very specific; he wants multi-modal raids with new modes tuned down. He’s spent the entirety of two threads, one 400+ post, one 500+ post, poking at this nest, and he’s received a lot of counterarguments without really honoring them. There are other people who’re actually willing to honor counterarguments in these threads so if you want an argument on the merits of rewards/modes/etc, it’s better to talk to them rather than keep going after the guy who thinks “Nope.” is a fair response to counterarguments.

The question becomes where the resources to build an easy mode will come from. I’m not going to argue about how much effort something takes since Gail Grey specifically said not to. (Link) The only designer who has done anything like that was Josh Foreman. (Kind of curious as to how many people used Infantile Mode and how much effort it took to build)

I have to say, I didn’t need it on SAB World 1, but I did use it on World 2. It wouldn’t have been needed on World 2 either though if they’d done a better job of spacing that content out so that you didn’t have to do so much of it in one sitting. I’m not talking about anything on the complexity of Infantile Mode though, that required planting those rainbow clouds all over the place. All this would be is some minor numbers tweaks, it would take no art, no environments, all it would take is looking at their databases of facts and figures that control the mobs’ stats and abilities, and tweaking a few of those options. Nothing completely new would need to be created.

I still am sad recalling how all of of Josh Foreman’s effort’s didn’t stop the toxic backlash from the community when they weren’t satisfied with World 2 though, despite him making three different difficulty modes.

I don’t recall the response being that bad, but World 2 really was a bit rough. It had way too long stretches between jumping off points, unlike world 1 which was pretty well balanced. With that one, you could jump in, do one stage, and jump off in a reasonable amount of time. World 2 stages were enormous with fewer checkpoints and if you didn’t complete the entire stage in one sitting then you had to start the whole thing over again. Ultimately though, they at least had the Infantile mode to get almost anyone through it, I just wish there had been a way to tackle normal mode in a way that had more jumping off points, where I could tackle just half or even a third of each stage in a sitting and then log off for the night.

….And you think people playing raids aren’t equally if not more invested in the game than yourself. This is a very enlightening development.

Individually they are probably more committed than I am, but there are far fewer of them. The raiders alone cannot fund the game, as Wildstar learned well.

Why should any developer go out of there way, to make a new mode of raids when the people complaining the loudest have already stated they don’t care about raids.

Because the people complaining the loudest have said that they don’t care about raids as they are now, but that they DO care about raids as they could be if they made these changes.

I have no idea what’s so difficult to parse about that.

Nokaru.7831:

The question becomes where the resources to build an easy mode will come from. I’m not going to argue about how much effort something takes since Gail Grey specifically said not to. (Link) The only designer who has done anything like that was Josh Foreman. (Kind of curious as to how many people used Infantile Mode and how much effort it took to build)

I still am sad recalling how all of of Josh Foreman’s effort’s didn’t stop the toxic backlash from the community when they weren’t satisfied with World 2 though, despite him making three different difficulty modes.

Well, it’s starting to happen that most of the Raid groups are solidifying into Static groups, which means less and less Pugs, or LFG openings only for specific roles and builds. That’s the nature of Raids.

Which is why I firmly believe that the Solution lies in a Story Mode Dungeon, and I am aware I said Dungeon not raid. A simple mode by which the casual player can do, that requires around 5 people.

The rewards would be nominal, like a paltry champion bag, maybe a single gold, and the ability to access the Collection and Collection Nodes.

As for where they would get the funds, well, as soon as they realize again that games serve the single purpose to be fun above all, and while this is just speculation from what I have seen on other sources like reddit, GW2 seems to have a much higher population of older more relaxed casual players.

If that is true, Anet will at some point have to downplay the difficultly of the game if they don’t want to risk alienating a substantial portion of their player base. Given, a large part of their motivation will most likely be to ensure better sales for their next expansion. This is Especially true, if the metrics show that this current expansion left their Casual player base feeling like all the only “fun” thing they got was gliding, because everything was simply not.. fun.

If that happens, I would rather see a “Story Dungeon” then the often Knee-Jerk route of Nerf the Raid till Everybody Wins.

Now, If I am wrong, about the Population and it’s divisions and how much Fun everyone was having, which I might be, then Anet won’t ever have the motive (and thus never have the funds) to revise the difficulty of the raid or anything else for that matter, and things will be as they are forever and ever.

Which is why I firmly believe that the Solution lies in a Story Mode Dungeon, and I am aware I said Dungeon not raid. A simple mode by which the casual player can do, that requires around 5 people.

I think this would be more work for no real benefit. I mean, certain bosses can already be done with six people, so in that sense I’m sure an easier version could be done with 3-4 really good players, but I think the full ten players would need to be an option as well.

The rewards would be nominal, like a paltry champion bag, maybe a single gold, and the ability to access the Collection and Collection Nodes.

I’m not sure on this. Do you mean that it would offer full access to Legendary Armor crafting, or only a part that would be useless without “graduating” to hard mode? If if does provide a path to the finish line, then that might work well enough, but it can’t just be a “trainer” mode that you’re meant to eventually advance out of.

I don’t mind the idea of a story mode if its rewards are suitably reduced (I think what you’ve said, champ bags and next to no gold, is pretty much spot on).

I think it would be strictly better if story modes were all single-player content, though. Group content ‘story modes’ end one of two ways: they either have bad rewards and they become impossible to group for once the content has expired, or they have good rewards and the LFG tools are clogged with speedrunners and people who want to skip cinematics and gogogo for rewards. In particular we’ve seen this in GW2 with story mode dungeons- there are next to no rewards so they can be tricky to find a group for, enough so that they changed Arah to solo.

For legendary completions from such a story mode, I am skeptical. I don’t have a problem at all with the legendary gear being behind that ‘exclusivity’ wall of raiding. I would much prefer it if different legendary armors were added in other modes of the game so that those skins maintain that prestige of “imma raider”.

Did you know?
That restaurant critics, will visit a place on average around 6 to 8 times before they write a review. Those tense days and weeks between when we first sight them and when it finally hits print are agonizing. We pay attention to those reviews. Those are the reviews that will make or break us.

Places like Google or Yelp or (insert random critique site), garner very small amounts of our attention. We will check them and get a feel for what the general consensus is. Occasionally there will be a scathing post in which we will panic over and analyse for what happened and what we did wrong. We spend approximately 10 minutes on it, Most of the time, its just people that are not going to be happy with anything. So we shoulder it and move on. There are a lot of other people out there that we need to keep making happy.

Every single night, Me and my crew put our hearts and passion on the line. for the whims of our guests. We aren’t in this for money. we are in this because we love what we do.

And there are many a times we will run into people that no matter what we do or how we do it, they are not going to be happy. Well we tried and we will continue to try because its what we do.

There are many people that have been posting on this thread and the forums in general. Concerning Raids or difficulty or how its to hard to get mastery points etc.

These are the people that come into my Fine dining Japanese/ Asian Restaurant. Order Chicken tenders with fries, Complain to me about how I don’t have hamburgers, (yes this does happen), Don’t tip the server and go on to write some review on yelp about how the sushi was improperly prepared.

You have reached a point where your opinions mean nothing. Most of us don’t even read them any more. As they contain no information worth noting. And they will remain as such for a very long time.

The raid team and Arena net in general have, like me, put everything they have on the line for us. the life, their love and passion to create something that they believe in. In hopes that people will enjoy it. Every hour of every day their work is up for scrutiny. Every plate I send out has a little bit of my soul in it. And all we can both do is the best we can and hope people like it.

You want to understand it all? Be able to raid and be able to have those nice things? Sit down at my sushi bar. And ask how to get into it. Rather than telling me how to do my job, Let us do our job and what we love, and help show you what it is that we find so cool.

and /endrambleItalktokitten much

These are the people that come into my Fine dining Japanese/ Asian Restaurant. Order Chicken tenders with fries, Complain to me about how I don’t have hamburgers, (yes this does happen), Don’t tip the server and go on to write some review on yelp about how the sushi was improperly prepared.

And yet, if you opened your restaurant in a town with little interest in Japanese food, and stubbornly refused to adapt your menu to the tastes of the environment, then chances are your business would fail. Ignoring the customers is not a sound strategy. An insistence on serving only nigiri and none of those California rolls the plebes like would only turn potential customers away.

I too work in an artistic field, and have to navigate criticisms both warranted and nonsense. These are not nonsense criticisms, they are genuine and heartfelt criticisms raised by people who are long term players of this game, who intend to continue being long term customers of this game. To continue your analogy, imagine that some of you customers insisted that you serve whale meat sushi (I believe this may be illegal in the US, but assume that it’s not), and let’s imagine that this seems fine to you, a solid extension of your cooking skills, so you start serving it. But then a number of your long time customers, ones that have been showing up every night for years, seem disgusted by the idea of serving whale meat, and actively ask you to stop carrying it. Wouldn’t you take their critiques to heart?

TexZero.7910:

….And you think people playing raids aren’t equally if not more invested in the game than yourself. This is a very enlightening development.

No, he is simply pointing out, that the raiders are too small a subset of the community to sustain that game.
Also, yeah, hardcores are far more likely to use gold to gems exchange than buy gems for cash

Ropechef.6192:

These are the people that come into my Fine dining Japanese/ Asian Restaurant. Order Chicken tenders with fries, Complain to me about how I don’t have hamburgers, (yes this does happen), Don’t tip the server and go on to write some review on yelp about how the sushi was improperly prepared.

You have reached a point where your opinions mean nothing. Most of us don’t even read them any more. As they contain no information worth noting. And they will remain as such for a very long time.

The raid team and Arena net in general have, like me, put everything they have on the line for us. the life, their love and passion to create something that they believe in. In hopes that people will enjoy it. Every hour of every day their work is up for scrutiny. Every plate I send out has a little bit of my soul in it. And all we can both do is the best we can and hope people like it.

You want to understand it all? Be able to raid and be able to have those nice things? Sit down at my sushi bar. And ask how to get into it. Rather than telling me how to do my job, Let us do our job and what we love, and help show you what it is that we find so cool.

and /endrambleItalktokitten much

You are missing a point. GW2 is not a sushi bar. It’s a hamburger joint. Those people that started to ask for out of place food, and complain that what they get is poor quality? We call them Raiders here.

But somehow they managed to persuade some of the servers that sushi is the way, and now people asking for hamburgers get ignored or ridiculed. Even if the bar is full of them, and the sushi clientele can barely fit one table in the corner.

Most of that main clientele will not care about the love and dedication you are showing to the sushi people. They will care however about the fact that you are no longer showing it to them. And that you tell them their opinions do not matter.

Astralporing.1957:

You are missing a point. GW2 is not a sushi bar. It’s a hamburger joint. Those people that started to ask for out of place food, and complain that what they get is poor quality? We call them Raiders here.

I think I missed something- who’s complaining about quality?

Sarrs.4831:

Astralporing.1957:

You are missing a point. GW2 is not a sushi bar. It’s a hamburger joint. Those people that started to ask for out of place food, and complain that what they get is poor quality? We call them Raiders here.

I think I missed something- who’s complaining about quality?

Raiders (well, would-be raiders then) did, when they said the game is too easy and needs to be more challenging.

Astralporing.1957:

Raiders (well, would-be raiders then) did, when they said the game is too easy and needs to be more challenging.

No, people who thought the game was too easy were not necessarily asking for raids.

I thought the PvE game was pretty shallow, outside of deep Fractals, before HoT and I’d hardly call myself a raider in GW2.

Astralporing.1957:

Sarrs.4831:

Astralporing.1957:

You are missing a point. GW2 is not a sushi bar. It’s a hamburger joint. Those people that started to ask for out of place food, and complain that what they get is poor quality? We call them Raiders here.

I think I missed something- who’s complaining about quality?

Raiders (well, would-be raiders then) did, when they said the game is too easy and needs to be more challenging.

Actually those “Raiders”, if you call that instance content runners, were asking for new dungeons and fractals for nearly 2 years. That Anet decided to release Raids, instead of what was actually requested is their fault, not the fault of “Raiders”. If we had 4 new dungeons, one for each HoT zone, and 4-5 new Fractals, I don’t think those “Raiders” would ask for Raids.