Guild Wars 2

Izithel.6853:

STIHL.2489:

Argon.1563:

I’d rather a raid that is scaled for single player.

I could get behind this, like some quasi-living story add-on, just a single player walk though.

Kind of like infantile mode for SAB?

I have heard that Arah used to be a 5 Person Dungeon, but because it was the last part of the Personal Story they made it a Solo Dungeon, so, I would imagine something like that being done, but as opposed to removing the 10 Man Raid, like they did with Arah, they could just put in some side entrance, to this other “Story Mode” kind of deal, just so people could get.. whatever it is they think they want.

STIHL.2489:

Izithel.6853:

STIHL.2489:

Argon.1563:

I’d rather a raid that is scaled for single player.

I could get behind this, like some quasi-living story add-on, just a single player walk though.

Kind of like infantile mode for SAB?

I have heard that Arah used to be a 5 Person Dungeon, but because it was the last part of the Personal Story they made it a Solo Dungeon, so, I would imagine something like that being done, but as opposed to removing the 10 Man Raid, like they did with Arah, they could just put in some side entrance, to this other “Story Mode” kind of deal, just so people could get.. whatever it is they think they want.

They also made it a solo instance because it was boring, broken and a buggy mess, nobody in their right mind wanted to run that more then once.

So far the raids are neither of those things.

Izithel.6853:

STIHL.2489:

Izithel.6853:

STIHL.2489:

Argon.1563:

I’d rather a raid that is scaled for single player.

I could get behind this, like some quasi-living story add-on, just a single player walk though.

Kind of like infantile mode for SAB?

I have heard that Arah used to be a 5 Person Dungeon, but because it was the last part of the Personal Story they made it a Solo Dungeon, so, I would imagine something like that being done, but as opposed to removing the 10 Man Raid, like they did with Arah, they could just put in some side entrance, to this other “Story Mode” kind of deal, just so people could get.. whatever it is they think they want.

They also made it a solo instance because it was boring, broken and a buggy mess, nobody in their right mind wanted to run that more then once.

Either way, same idea.

I’ll add my +1.
I’m all about casual.

Banzairush.4962:

Absolutely no. Raids are supposed to be hard not watered down. There are fractals and dungeons for you. It would be a shame to see half the players wearing raid only skins.

He clearly said he was fine with lesser rewards. I would even be fine with no rewards at all. Honestly, what could possibly be wrong with a story mode version as long as the rewards are still exclusive to the people who beat the raid normally?

I’m not asking for the same rewards for less effort, nor am I asking to make it a soloable, I just want to keep up with the story.

Sotha.1283:

Why do I (and I think many others) need easy mode?

I would call myself an experienced player. I know my profession, I know the combos, skill rotations and I can use them. I was speedruning dungeons and fractals. I have ascended gear and 161 mastery points. I made a lot of things, others call hard, solo.

So where is the problem?
I don’t have a guild or friends to play with. I became casual player, due to real life, but still I would love to go there and experience new content.

So why do I need an easy mode?
It would allow me to go there with pugs, with any professions composition like in low level fractals. It would allow me to learn the mechanics. It would allow me to experience new content.

It would be a great TRAINING for newbies like me!

I don’t care about rewards. All I want is to start a game and enjoy it.
Do not send me to other content, couse I did it. Do not send me to YouTube to watch how others play to learn the raids. Do not force me to join the raiding guilds. Give me a chance to try the raids without requirement of siting there for hours looking for group and then dying inside the instance till I become disappointed and tired.

Please.

//Pardon me any language mistakes. English is not my native laguage.

Why do you need an easy mode to learn?

Yesterday, I beat the first boss of wing 3 with an all pug group. None of us really knew the encounter.

The only thing stopping you is you. This is literally the best time to learn since everyone has zero experience. Jump in and try it.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Banzairush.4962:

Absolutely no. Raids are supposed to be hard not watered down. There are fractals and dungeons for you. It would be a shame to see half the players wearing raid only skins.

He clearly said he was fine with lesser rewards. I would even be fine with no rewards at all. Honestly, what could possibly be wrong with a story mode version as long as the rewards are still exclusive to the people who beat the raid normally?

I’m not asking for the same rewards for less effort, nor am I asking to make it a soloable, I just want to keep up with the story.

Almost all the story is available through a competed raid instance. Also seems like a huge waste of resources, because players generally don’t repeat story modes.

I am fine with no rewards at all if it meant I’m able to experience the content at my own pace.

From what I’ve seen, Wing 1 is rarely attempted now, and it’s going to be worse now that W3 has been released. So, the ones that want to attempt it somehow, can’t. We won’t find groups interested in doing them.

So you may argue “well, then, put a group together from those who haven’t experienced it before”, and while a sound argument, RL often doesn’t allow for me (and many others, I’m sure) to be on for long periods of time; thus, the need that many here seem to have, so we can either solo, or experience it at a slower pacing (even with no loot returns).

I ‘m +1’ing this so hard.

Astralporing.1957:

Miellyn.6847:

Casual is a term for people who play a short and irregular amount of time each week without a steady schedule. It has nothing to do with personal skill. Raids are already casual-friendly.

Casual has nothing to do with length of playing time. It’s just a description of commitment to change your playing style to fit the game’s needs. Casuals would rather the game changed to fit them, not the other way around. Regardless whether they’re skiled or not, or if they play 1 hour per week or 10 hours per day. Hardcores on the other hand are perfectly fine with rescheduling their timetable, and changing their friends just to fulfill some game needs – and they think others should be fine with it as well, for some reason or another.

Izithel.6853:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

I thought most people were asking for an easier version, so that you elitists can continue to use your special bathrooms and water fountains, we’ll settle for some thing stripped down and low class as far as the rewards.

We’re talking video games here, not racial segregation.

Are we? Seeing some statements about how some people don’t deserve to have fun unless they convert to the Only Playstyle That Matters, i’m not so sure.

Casuals don’t even have a schedule that they could change…
You don’t need to change your friends to complete the raids. They are perfectly casual-friendly. You just can’t complete them in the first run.

Either way, same idea.

No. Arah story mode was made a solo instance because it is part of the personal story and you could complete every part alone except Arah. There is no personal story inside the raids. No need for a solo mode.

I have completed 1 and 2 wing, to me the hardest part is not play the raid, is prepare the raid and find enough people to make good tries.

More than a easy mode the raid need a 5 players to little groups , all mechanic bosses can be translated to a 5 member party right now without made a easy mode. With a 5 players casual the access will be less restritcted to small groups or guild that cant find enough people and they will able to play and practice the a real raid enviroment instead waiting for find a group and never get a real experience of bosses mechanic.

To me the fist issue with raid is not the dificulty, i love the difficutly but i would love a 5 players mode to faster tries and when you and your group of players have a job and only can coincide with 4-5 friends, right now is too time consuming, and this is bringing the same issues from GW1 and when arena.net needed launch the Heroes in GW1.

I remember when Arena.net announce that GW2 will not have healer and the classic holy trinity and post this webcomic in his articles:

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/global/includes/images/en/healing-death-comic01.jpg

Well now that exact my exp when try to do raids xd, not the difficulty trying to kill Mathias or Sabetha.

GonzoNeo.4965:

I have completed 1 and 2 wing, to me the hardest part is not play the raid, is prepare the raid and find enough people to make good tries.

More than a easy mode the raid need a 5 players to little groups , all mechanic bosses can be translated to a 5 member party right now without made a easy mode. With a 5 players casual the access will be less restritcted to small groups or guild that cant find enough people and they will able to play and practice the a real raid enviroment instead waiting for find a group and never get a real experience of bosses mechanic.

To me the fist issue with raid is not the dificulty, i love the difficutly but i would love a 5 players mode to faster tries and when you and your group of players have a job and only can coincide with 4-5 friends.

I remember when Arena.net announce that GW2 will not have healer and the classic holy trinity and post this webcomic in his articles:

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/global/includes/images/en/healing-death-comic01.jpg

Well now that exact my exp when try to do raids xd

5 man would make VG, Matthias and Keep Contruct a joke.
Gorseval, Sabetha and Sloth need changes for a 5 man version. Siege event in wing 3 wouldn’t work. You can’t translate a single boss fight to a 5 man version without significant changes or massive decrease in difficulty.
If you don’t make it significantly easier 5 man version would exclude a lot of classes and your desired target group as they can’t play all classes.
There are more than enough healer around. Condition damage for wing 1 needs much more time to get in a PUG.

Would do ?

VG exp will be only 2 people in green circles, but if some of this 2 people file = wipe, and escalate HP of Red, Blue and Green guardian to a 1 , 2 , 2 split. Yeah you can think that will be more easy if only need 2 people instead 4, But if someone from this 2 members fail you only will have 2 backup players ( i dont count the tank )to go the green circle instead 5.

Mathias to me will be more easier to make it a 5 encounter member, the Poison, red aoe, hadoken , and CC sacrifices, reflects will be the same . The only especific attack that will be more “easier” will be the targeted AOE bombs because the floor will be less covered for the split, make them bigger in 5 group mode and you have your answer.

Gorseval, the only change where will be in the ghost split, make 3 ghost instead 4 to 2 members made soft CC, 2 member DPS rotationa and the last member to destroy the darkness orbs. The rest will be same, gorseval is basically a DPS check, the glide, CC and eggs attack will be the same.

Sabetha will need change the spawn cannons to rotate the cannons with less people, the champ spawn, the flamethrower etc….dont depend if the party have 5 or 10 members, is only dodge AOE and dps check againts the champ.

Sloth still will have 1 random tank, 1 grub the only change will be less player making DPS and CC to him, reduce HP and CC to escalate to less players with less grubs because you will have less reflects in a 5 players member.

I dont know, i dont see a really big change to the boss mechanics in a 5 players group.

I’m fine with raids being hard and exclusionary. What I’m not fine with is lore being locked behind raids. Yeah, I know there are workarounds, but that’s beside the point.

danielrjones.8759:

I don’t really care either way if they give an easy mode or not. If they did, I doubt I would ever play it. No reason to. What I don’t understand is those against it, I mean if you have no intention of running easy mode then what difference does it make to you if someone else does? Listening to people complaining about something they have no intention of doing sounds childish. imo the bottom line is there are those who don’t want easy mode for a reason, they want to be viewed separately from the casuals.
If the value a person places on themselves is how others perceive them in a make believe world, you’ve got bigger problems than not wanting easy mode.

Here’s a couple of reasons to oppose an easy mode, even if you never play it:

Easy and medium instanced group content already exists in dungeons and raids. This content is more amenable to easy modes than raids.

If you are the type of player that plays content at varying difficulties, it’s much better to have different content at an easier level than easy mode raids. I’d rather play fractals + dungeons + raids. I would never do raid + easy mode raid.

Easy mode raids split the player base. As someone who raids, it’s preferable to have a larger player pool. I know some argue that they could learn in easy mode, but most/all are capable of learning in normal mode.

It would be a waste of developer resources. It would either take away from raid development, or take away from dungeon/fractal/living world development. The latter content aligns more closely with the values of people who like easy mode.

GonzoNeo.4965:

Would do ?

VG exp will be only 2 people in green circles, but if some of this 2 people file = wipe, and escalate HP of Red, Blue and Green guardian to a 1 , 2 , 2 split. Yeah you can think that will be more easy if only need 2 people instead 4, But if someone from this 2 members fail you only will have 2 backup players ( i dont count the tank )to go the green circle instead 5.

Less people in the green circle -> less sources for failure -> easier

Mathias to me will be more easier to make it a 5 encounter member, the Poison, red aoe, hadoken , and CC sacrifices, reflects will be the same . The only especific attack that will be more “easier” will be the targeted AOE bombs because the floor will be less covered for the split, make them bigger in 5 group mode and you have your answer.

Gorseval, the only change where will be in the ghost split, make 3 ghost instead 4 to 2 members made soft CC, 2 member DPS rotationa and the last member to destroy the darkness orbs. The rest will be same, gorseval is basically a DPS check, the glide, CC and eggs attack will be the same.

The spirits are an instant wipe, less spirits less danger, more DPS.

Sabetha will need change the spawn cannons to rotate the cannons with less people, the champ spawn, the flamethrower etc….dont depend if the party have 5 or 10 members, is only dodge AOE and dps check againts the champ.

You need to change the debuff timer.

Sloth still will have 1 random tank, 1 grub the only change will be less player making DPS and CC to him, reduce HP and CC to escalate to less players with less grubs because you will have less reflects in a 5 players member.

Changes to the timer.

I dont know, i dont see a really big change to the boss mechanics in a 5 players group.

They will be also more rigid in the group setup unless you make it braindead easy. At that point it has no training effect anymore and are just a loot pinata.

Endless Soul.5178:

I’m fine with raids being hard and exclusionary. What I’m not fine with is lore being locked behind raids. Yeah, I know there are workarounds, but that’s beside the point.

What lore is locked behind raids? Almost all lore is available in a competed instance. As for bosses, there’s nothing stopping you from fighting them right now.

A lore-only instance would be a huge waste of developer resources, as lorehounds would only go in it once.

Other hard content also has much more relevant lore tie ins, like arah and aether path.

Yes , you need less people in Green circle yeah, but you have less people to go green circles too. When you need 4 people and some one fail to go you have 5 people for backup. If 1 people fail there you only have 2 people to backup, the rest of the party need be more alert that in the 10 players mode.

Gorseval is the same, yeah less spirits only 1 less, but if someone have issues doing soft CC and stoping his spirit you have less backup to, but well you can have 4 spirit too, 3 soft CC and 2 people doing begging the DPS rotation and killing orbs same time is not a big change, the spirit part in gorseval is really easy with 10 people too.

The rest of the boss are timer and HP changes to escalate the DPS from a 5 member party how you said, no change in the “real mechancs and dificulty” that is what is supposed to make funnier the raids, no timers.

The boss with 10 people = super fun but if you have the same boss with the same mechanic but for 5 people = pinata ?

Sorry but to me this is only a lazy excuse, the dificculty of the bosses shouldnt depend quantity of players fightning againts him.

The rigid setup issue exit in 10 people group too, you still have to wait for a chrono tank, or a druid healer, or a revenant, or a PS or a Tempest etc… The issue with the setup is not for 5 or 10 or 20 players mode, people will always try to go with the most optimized setup, and this is for the lack of balance in PVE with GW2, the last patch updates are balancing for PVP league instead split PVP/PVE/WVW like did in GW1 because they think that we are too stupid to read the skills, but well, that another story.

danielrjones.8759:

I don’t really care either way if they give an easy mode or not. If they did, I doubt I would ever play it. No reason to. What I don’t understand is those against it, I mean if you have no intention of running easy mode then what difference does it make to you if someone else does? Listening to people complaining about something they have no intention of doing sounds childish. imo the bottom line is there are those who don’t want easy mode for a reason, they want to be viewed separately from the casuals.
If the value a person places on themselves is how others perceive them in a make believe world, you’ve got bigger problems than not wanting easy mode.

I don’t care whether an easy mode exists or not, but I don’t want one to be added in for two reasons:

1.) Easy mode inherently has no replay value. It exists to be beaten and then ignored, like SAB infantile mode of dungeon story modes. Which wouldn’t be a problem except…
2.) Designing an programming an easy mode raid would take a significant amount of time away from the raid team designing more substantial content. It isn’t as simple as just changing a few numbers and slapping a new sticker on it. Easy mode raids would take a lot of time up front to create (especially if you want them to be balanced and not just press-1-to-win), and would significantly increase the time needed to be spent on maintenance for the encounters.

Besides, easy raid content already exists in the game. Play the first “boss” of stronghold of the faithful. Play the bandit trio. On an individual level they’re easier than several dungeon paths (though overall they are probably harder due to requiring coordination among 10 players). Even people with no raid experience can have those done in a few hours tops if they read up on the fights.

Gorseval is more challenging for a first timer but if everyone practices their DPS rotation and reads up on his mechanics/watches videos then it’s actually a very easy fight compared to the other raid bosses.

I understand not wanting to spend weeks learning to kill a boss, but if you aren’t willing to spend even a few hours learning the fight then raids just aren’t for you. Preparation, practice, and failure are implicit properties of raids, and honestly even with an “easy mode” or whatever those things won’t go away unless it is press-1-to-win status (which is also awful for obvious reasons). A well designed “easy mode” on slothasor or VG would probably still be harder than bandit trio or the first encounter of stronghold of the faithful.

Easier raids for casuals?

Easy: Dungeons/Fractals.

Boom, problem solved.

Absurdo.8309:

danielrjones.8759:

I don’t really care either way if they give an easy mode or not. If they did, I doubt I would ever play it. No reason to. What I don’t understand is those against it, I mean if you have no intention of running easy mode then what difference does it make to you if someone else does? Listening to people complaining about something they have no intention of doing sounds childish. imo the bottom line is there are those who don’t want easy mode for a reason, they want to be viewed separately from the casuals.
If the value a person places on themselves is how others perceive them in a make believe world, you’ve got bigger problems than not wanting easy mode.

Here’s a couple of reasons to oppose an easy mode, even if you never play it:

Easy and medium instanced group content already exists in dungeons and raids. This content is more amenable to easy modes than raids.

If you are the type of player that plays content at varying difficulties, it’s much better to have different content at an easier level than easy mode raids. I’d rather play fractals + dungeons + raids. I would never do raid + easy mode raid.

Easy mode raids split the player base. As someone who raids, it’s preferable to have a larger player pool. I know some argue that they could learn in easy mode, but most/all are capable of learning in normal mode.

It would be a waste of developer resources. It would either take away from raid development, or take away from dungeon/fractal/living world development. The latter content aligns more closely with the values of people who like easy mode.

You have some good points. I don’t agree entirely. Yes easy mode is dungeon and imo anything fractal 75 and below 76-100 middle of the road difficulty I suppose. Even less difficult since last changes to fractals.
I was thinking more about those who want to experience raids but either have less skill or time and as such doing an easy mode raid would reward accordingly.

As far as splitting the player base thus causing a smaller pool. I hadn’t considered that. I don’t pug raids so that’s pretty much a non issue with me as I’ve had a team from the beginning. I can see it being an issue for those who do pug.

Being a waste of developer resources is an opinion. To some it would not be a waste at all in fact they would greatly appreciate it. To others obviously so.

I still believe a portion of the raiders don’t want easy mode for selfish reasons. Not all but some. I don’t see anything wrong with throwing a bone to those who don’t have the skill or time to play as much as other. That’s just me though, I love everyone lol well cept my neighbor who starts his diesel truck at 4 in the morning.

Absurdo.8309:

Here’s a couple of reasons to oppose an easy mode, even if you never play it:

Easy and medium instanced group content already exists in dungeons and raids. This content is more amenable to easy modes than raids.

If you are the type of player that plays content at varying difficulties, it’s much better to have different content at an easier level than easy mode raids. I’d rather play fractals + dungeons + raids. I would never do raid + easy mode raid.

Pfffft. Old, stale and worn out content. Trust me, there’d be far less casual interest in raids if there were a couple of new dungeons and fractals as well.

I don’t think ‘I would not do this, therefore it is a bad idea’ is a good enough reason to oppose an easy mode.

Absurdo.8309:

Easy mode raids split the player base. As someone who raids, it’s preferable to have a larger player pool. I know some argue that they could learn in easy mode, but most/all are capable of learning in normal mode.

Not sure about this one. As long as there are better incentives for raiding at the current difficulty I doubt it’d draw any of the regulars away. As it is the player base is already hugely fragmented between those who raid and those you couldn’t pay to even try. I’d also counter this by saying that an option to run through on a more forgiving scale would allow more players to familiarise themselves with the mechanics, and develop enough confidence to have a go at the real thing. It’s worked pretty well for fractals. I imagine the player base for those would be far smaller if you had to jump in at T4 or not at all.

Absurdo.8309:

It would be a waste of developer resources. It would either take away from raid development, or take away from dungeon/fractal/living world development. The latter content aligns more closely with the values of people who like easy mode.

It could slow down raid development. Certainly wouldn’t detract from anything else since the raid team is like 5 or 6 guys who Anet repeatedly assures us, work on raids only so that content doesn’t affect anything else.

I don’t agree with compartmentalising content like ‘LS is supposed to be easy etc’ is helpful. There is room for scaling across all types of content, imo.

Dinosaurs.8674:

danielrjones.8759:

I don’t really care either way if they give an easy mode or not. If they did, I doubt I would ever play it. No reason to. What I don’t understand is those against it, I mean if you have no intention of running easy mode then what difference does it make to you if someone else does? Listening to people complaining about something they have no intention of doing sounds childish. imo the bottom line is there are those who don’t want easy mode for a reason, they want to be viewed separately from the casuals.
If the value a person places on themselves is how others perceive them in a make believe world, you’ve got bigger problems than not wanting easy mode.

I don’t care whether an easy mode exists or not, but I don’t want one to be added in for two reasons:

1.) Easy mode inherently has no replay value. It exists to be beaten and then ignored, like SAB infantile mode of dungeon story modes. Which wouldn’t be a problem except…
2.) Designing an programming an easy mode raid would take a significant amount of time away from the raid team designing more substantial content. It isn’t as simple as just changing a few numbers and slapping a new sticker on it. Easy mode raids would take a lot of time up front to create (especially if you want them to be balanced and not just press-1-to-win), and would significantly increase the time needed to be spent on maintenance for the encounters.

Same as I said before but I certainly agree on your point 1. Easy mode has no replay value. That in itself would make me reconsider my opinion. Well part of it anyway.

Edit, cause this comment got me to thinking about no replay value. I suppose that would be dependent on what the rewards would be. I’m thinking about gw1 and doa runs. I recall many who couldn’t or wouldn’t run hard mode for whatever reasons I can’t say but I do recall some running easy mode daily.

Absurdo.8309:

Why do you need an easy mode to learn?

Yesterday, I beat the first boss of wing 3 with an all pug group. None of us really knew the encounter.

The only thing stopping you is you. This is literally the best time to learn since everyone has zero experience. Jump in and try it.

And how long did it take to you to find a group? Then how long did it take to you to beat the boss? I was standing in LA with LFG open for an hour or a bit more. Nothing (EU server).
The point is that with easy mode implemented, more people probably will start pugin raids. And there will be no need for meta team composition = chance for eveyone.

Replay value has nothing to do with challenge at all, it’s about rewards.

Jahroots.6791:

Replay value has nothing to do with challenge at all, it’s about rewards.

I mean yeah for an easy mode it would of course be all about the reward. But I don’t see a scenario in which an easy mode raid is replayable for rewards. If the rewards are good, then you’ve just created an incentive for “regular mode” raiders to play easy mode, which is obviously stupid. If the rewards are bad, then no one will replay the content.

Also as an aside, I don’t think you can say the challenge has nothing to do with it. Lots of players raid multiple times a week after their first clear because they like the content, even though the reward is bad (possibly even at a loss of gold). Defining replay value solely in terms of gold reward leads to a situation where SW chest farms and fotm 40 have great “replay value” and raids/pvp/wvw have none, which seems intuitively wrong.

And really, if easy mode is crap but people played it nonstop because it gave SW chest farm level rewards, that wouldn’t make it good content. I don’t think that is what anyone wants.

I was being too simplistic there. I don’t mean loot only – rewards can be intrinsic or extrinsic (sometimes both). The reward I was referring to is basically what a player gets out of beating the same scripted content multiple times.

Raids are in the unique position of being a bit of a novelty still, making the challenge fun and rewarding. I don’t expect many people would be willing to clear each wing more than once weekly when they’re finally burned out.

As long as there’s a significant difference in the rewards earned in regular vs easier raids, there will always be people playing the harder option. Off the top of my head, I would expect something like 1/3 of the shards per encounter and maybe 20 – 30% of the current drop rates for minis, skins in any ‘easy mode’ implemented.

Absurdo.8309:

I believe easy mode raids are called dungeons and fractals.

Interesting, when did the raid become available in Fractal form, or 5 man form; I didn’t see any patch notes about this, do you have an article to reference?

Something tells me you just typed that out with out thinking.

domness.6719:

Why do we need easier raids? Making an easy mode just completely defeats the point of them.

Most of the people that I have spoken to that complain about raids, have a pretty bad attitude towards wanting to even try something new.

Remember when Raids first were released? Remember when 99.999999% of the GW2 population hadn’t set foot in a GW2 Raid before?

Well.. everyone has to start somewhere, it’s just that the people who are doing weekly raids now actually got off their behinds and went straight in for beating the raids.

If you want easier raids, I’d suggest just do dungeons or fractals with a small group of friends. You’d be missing out on 90% of the fun if they were made easier. The whole point of raids is that they are challenging, without that challenge, what’s the point.

How so, it wouldn’t share the same loot table; it would share the same loot table as the 4 open world expansion maps? Explain how this would ruin your precious experience other than opening content for 100% of the player base. You sound like one of those ‘people’ I was talking about that want this content to be exclusive and clique-ish.

Izithel.6853:

Tekoneiric.6817:

Ronnie Hu.1694:

lesser reward is fine for me..

just want to have fun and not wasting time..

I’d prefer explorable mission modes on the maps for single players in addition to the full team raid mode. Many are like me and prefer playing maps alone.

It’s an MMO, you can expect content to require groups.
Dungeons and fractals don’t have solo modes either.

Not what MMO means. :rolleyes:

Razor.9872:

Easier raids for casuals?

Easy: Dungeons/Fractals.

Boom, problem solved.

The raids have 5 man versions available in Dungeons/Fractals, that’s interesting because I never read those patch notes, never saw that mentioned in an article.

Dinosaurs.8674:

danielrjones.8759:

I don’t really care either way if they give an easy mode or not. If they did, I doubt I would ever play it. No reason to. What I don’t understand is those against it, I mean if you have no intention of running easy mode then what difference does it make to you if someone else does? Listening to people complaining about something they have no intention of doing sounds childish. imo the bottom line is there are those who don’t want easy mode for a reason, they want to be viewed separately from the casuals.
If the value a person places on themselves is how others perceive them in a make believe world, you’ve got bigger problems than not wanting easy mode.

I don’t care whether an easy mode exists or not, but I don’t want one to be added in for two reasons:

1.) Easy mode inherently has no replay value. It exists to be beaten and then ignored, like SAB infantile mode of dungeon story modes. Which wouldn’t be a problem

If easy mode had no replay value why do people keep doing the mapmeta events them hmmm?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I would like a story mode in raids. Being a lot easier, but doesn’t give the same rewards, just so people who aren’t into hardcore content can still keep up with the story.

I support this idea. It is good for players who just want to keep themselves updated to the lore, the reward can be severally nerfed to the point of maybe just a rare or two which doesn’t matter since is for the sake of the lore.

Absurdo.8309:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Banzairush.4962:

Absolutely no. Raids are supposed to be hard not watered down. There are fractals and dungeons for you. It would be a shame to see half the players wearing raid only skins.

He clearly said he was fine with lesser rewards. I would even be fine with no rewards at all. Honestly, what could possibly be wrong with a story mode version as long as the rewards are still exclusive to the people who beat the raid normally?

I’m not asking for the same rewards for less effort, nor am I asking to make it a soloable, I just want to keep up with the story.

Almost all the story is available through a competed raid instance. Also seems like a huge waste of resources, because players generally don’t repeat story modes.

That same argument can be applied for the raid itself. Only a small percentage of the population regularly does raid.

raid story mode is a good idea imo. For me 10 man instances at hard fractal level would be nice. Hard enough that it requires skill and experience, easy enough that people dont get anal about builds.

Gear (aesthetics at least) should be tied to the level of the raid. If they implement casual raid, they should give casual raid gear. Normal mode = normal mode gear styles. Shouldn’t be dropped to solo, or make an explorable raid solo-able and give them there own explorable gear aesthetics.

Raid(r?d) : a sudden attack on an enemy by troops, aircraft, or other armed forces in warfare.

Jahroots.6791:

I was being too simplistic there. I don’t mean loot only – rewards can be intrinsic or extrinsic (sometimes both). The reward I was referring to is basically what a player gets out of beating the same scripted content multiple times.

Raids are in the unique position of being a bit of a novelty still, making the challenge fun and rewarding. I don’t expect many people would be willing to clear each wing more than once weekly when they’re finally burned out.

As long as there’s a significant difference in the rewards earned in regular vs easier raids, there will always be people playing the harder option. Off the top of my head, I would expect something like 1/3 of the shards per encounter and maybe 20 – 30% of the current drop rates for minis, skins in any ‘easy mode’ implemented.

You’re definitely correct that you could implement an easy mode with well balanced rewards for its difficulty. However, I still stand by what I wrote a couple posts ago, that such a feature would take too many development resources to create and maintain. I also have strong doubts that it would bring any significant number of players into raiding unless the rewards were extremely good.

Furthermore, I don’t have anything against easier raids in general, but why put significant development resources into a separate version of already existing content? Why not just make a new raid that is easier, or that has two difficulty levels? Then at least you have novel content and you can still see if an easy mode for future raids is even worth it. There seems to be a fixation on having an easy mode for the forsaken thicket, but it wasn’t created with easy mode in mind and if it were I would imagine that many things would have been designed differently (for example, maybe for easy mode they want to slow down sabetha’s flame wall, but the way it is programmed makes it very difficult to slow it down, and if they had planned for easy mode from the start this wouldn’t be an issue). Backtracking to change it into something it was never intended to be seems like a waste of time.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Dinosaurs.8674:

danielrjones.8759:

I don’t really care either way if they give an easy mode or not. If they did, I doubt I would ever play it. No reason to. What I don’t understand is those against it, I mean if you have no intention of running easy mode then what difference does it make to you if someone else does? Listening to people complaining about something they have no intention of doing sounds childish. imo the bottom line is there are those who don’t want easy mode for a reason, they want to be viewed separately from the casuals.
If the value a person places on themselves is how others perceive them in a make believe world, you’ve got bigger problems than not wanting easy mode.

I don’t care whether an easy mode exists or not, but I don’t want one to be added in for two reasons:

1.) Easy mode inherently has no replay value. It exists to be beaten and then ignored, like SAB infantile mode of dungeon story modes. Which wouldn’t be a problem

If easy mode had no replay value why do people keep doing the mapmeta events them hmmm?

In what way are map meta events more similar to a raid easy mode than dungeon story mode and SAB infantile mode? Are you saying you would like there to be an open world version of the raid where 100 people can walk in and half of them die to random crap and don’t respawn, and the other half kill it by pressing 1 and everyone gets raid rewards?

It’s more realistic to assume an easy mode raid would still be 10 man content with the boss scaled down, and would give little to no reward, as the OP mentioned. In such a case it would have almost no replay value. Even if someone decided they wanted to practice and master it, they would then just play normal mode instead lol.

Also you can quote multiple people at once, you don’t have to make 4 posts in a row.

Make 4 difficulty tiers with different rewards, with current difficulty being tier 3, and rewards system is same as fractal daily one – if you kill T4 boss you getting T1+T2+T3+T4 rewards at once. This way people can learn and progress to harder encounters and better rewards.
Dunno why I’m writing this tho, “professional raiders” (lol) will vigorously dismiss any proposal anyway.

Rednik.3809:

Make 4 difficulty tiers with different rewards, with current difficulty being tier 3, and rewards system is same as fractal daily one – if you kill T4 boss you getting T1+T2+T3+T4 rewards at once. This way people can learn and progress to harder encounters and better rewards.
Dunno why I’m writing this tho, “professional raiders” (lol) will vigorously dismiss any proposal anyway.

Well maybe because using your brain is allowed here?!
We already made it very clear that taking resources to produce content twice for raids is already a waste (one of the main complaint you casuals have btw if you’ve forgotten),
and now you wanna have 4 difficulty tiers instead of 2?
So that would double the workload even more, how is that good in any means?
With this size Arena Net would most certainly be forced to move more people into the raid team and postpone other things like LW3 and similar stuff.
I guess thinking is very rare these days…

Dominik.5162:

Well maybe because using your brain is allowed here?!
We already made it very clear that taking resources to produce content twice for raids is already a waste (one of the main complaint you casuals have btw if you’ve forgotten),
and now you wanna have 4 difficulty tiers instead of 2?
So that would double the workload even more, how is that good in any means?
With this size Arena Net would most certainly be forced to move more people into the raid team and postpone other things like LW3 and similar stuff.
I guess thinking is very rare these days…

Making content accessible for x3 amount of people is better use of development time than even making +1 whole raid, regardless of your opinion about that.

Rednik.3809:

Dominik.5162:

Well maybe because using your brain is allowed here?!
We already made it very clear that taking resources to produce content twice for raids is already a waste (one of the main complaint you casuals have btw if you’ve forgotten),
and now you wanna have 4 difficulty tiers instead of 2?
So that would double the workload even more, how is that good in any means?
With this size Arena Net would most certainly be forced to move more people into the raid team and postpone other things like LW3 and similar stuff.
I guess thinking is very rare these days…

Making content accessible for x3 amount of people is better use of development time than even making +1 whole raid, regardless of your opinion about that.

Regardless of your opinion you can’t be more wrong, please use your brain a bit it won’t hurt you.

Dominik.5162:

Regardless of your opinion you can’t be more wrong, please use your brain a bit it won’t hurt you.

60% of players playing 1 raid > 20% of players playing raid 1 and 2. Now present me your arguments, if you are able to.

I have no idea if there is more casuals in the game than hardcore players. Seen the comment, why uses resources? Or, it would be a waste of resources…. Now would that be the same resources Anet used in making content for a specific group of players? Is that group of players entitled to have more resources used on them than the casuals? imho it’s whatever the real life bottom line is. Which group makes Anet more money?

I’m actually torn on this subject after reading both sides. A part of me genuinely feels bad for players who actually want to learn raids and play but are unable to for whatever reasons they may have. And a part of me says man up and learn to play if you want to raid. I’m sure Anet has the numbers of what their best move is financially, so really what I think just doesn’t matter.

But to say Anet shouldn’t waste or use resources on a group who doesn’t play like me would be very selfish on my part.

Artifically increasing the participation numbers isn’t not a good thing and you can argue against it all you want, still won’t ever be true.
Content doesn’t need to cater to every single players needs (most of it should, i give you that).
Raids cater to organizes groups/guilds who are willing to put effort and time in it to learn and improve themselves further, this is content GW2 was desperately lacking in terms of PvE.
Just because some people are straight out too bad to beat bosses, don’t have time to put in effort, or have physical issues so they can’t beat the bosses still gives no reason for an “easy mode”.

Also how long will it take that those made up 60% are only 40%, or 35%, or even 25%?? easy content is trivial and doesnt have much replay vallue → development needlessly gona to waste.

Next point is that it would not only require alot more ressources, which in return means EVEN LATER LW updates (content that is actually designed for casuals), but it would also stall development of further raid content.

…….

You have raids that are beat the same day they come out, and you want them even easier?

have a look at a class guide i made for raids wich will cover up a lot about this https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4o8gv9/cats_ultimate_ranger_guide/

Dominik.5162:

Artifically increasing the participation numbers isn’t not a good thing and you can argue against it all you want, still won’t ever be true.
Content doesn’t need to cater to every single players needs (most of it should, i give you that).

Blizzard would not agree with you and Blizzard have infinitely more experience than you. Why I should trust your opinion instead?

Raids cater to organizes groups/guilds who are willing to put effort and time in it to learn and improve themselves further, this is content GW2 was desperately lacking in terms of PvE.

Any group content that require more than 111111 is doing exactly that. This is not an argument.

Dominik.5162:

Also how long will it take that those made up 60% are only 40%, or 35%, or even 25%?? easy content is trivial and doesnt have much replay vallue -> development needlessly gona to waste.

Copypasting and rewriting few encounter scripts and loot tables? Definitely a lot less than making another raid from scratch. New raids requires everything, scenario, map, textures, models, sounds, voice actors, new scripts, new spells, new items, new NPCs and creatures, even new masteries. Making new difficulty requires few rewritten scripts and few new lines in loot tables.

Dominik.5162:

Next point is that it would not only require alot more ressources, which in return means EVEN LATER LW updates (content that is actually designed for casuals), but it would also stall development of further raid content.

A lot of which resources? Imaginary ones? Because all others are already mentioned.

Zenith.7301:

…….

You have raids that are beat the same day they come out, and you want them even easier?

Well, not exactly. They want “versions”, or rather “the option to” do easier instances of said raids. Sorta like story-mode vs exploitable mode in dungeons, if both options covered more or less the same content (like lower vs higher levels in fractals).

However, the issue with this is largely a matter of priority. After spending who knows how many hours coding in a dual-difficulty system into raids and re-balancing all the bosses/mechanics, when a “casual” (I’m using the term loosely to define the people who are currently avoiding raids due to their difficulty/requirements) were to beat this content, that would be it — they would be done with that content, and likely never come back because the rewards would have to be much lower that current raids (which are already low).

It would be like story mode in dungeons as they are now — except it would require 10 people. It would be popular among “casuals” for maybe a week or two, and then it would likely die down to a point where people are struggling to fill groups.

A-net only has so many resources; with so many things on the table™ or coming soon™, creating an alternate difficulty setting for people who just want the story would too great a detour.

Even now, those who just want to do raids to explore the zones and experience story can already do so by asking in LFG for cleared instances — as nearly all of the story is placed in texts or character dialogue.

But still this thread will continue…

Rednik.3809:

Dominik.5162:

Artifically increasing the participation numbers isn’t not a good thing and you can argue against it all you want, still won’t ever be true.
Content doesn’t need to cater to every single players needs (most of it should, i give you that).

Blizzard would not agree with you and Blizzard have infinitely more experience than you. Why I should trust your opinion instead?

Raids cater to organizes groups/guilds who are willing to put effort and time in it to learn and improve themselves further, this is content GW2 was desperately lacking in terms of PvE.

Any group content that require more than 111111 is doing exactly that. This is not an argument.

Dominik.5162:

Also how long will it take that those made up 60% are only 40%, or 35%, or even 25%?? easy content is trivial and doesnt have much replay vallue -> development needlessly gona to waste.

Copypasting and rewriting few encounter scripts and loot tables? Definitely a lot less than making another raid from scratch. New raids requires everything, scenario, map, textures, models, sounds, voice actors, new scripts, new spells, new items, new NPCs and creatures, even new masteries. Making new difficulty requires few rewritten scripts and few new lines in loot tables.

Dominik.5162:

Next point is that it would not only require alot more ressources, which in return means EVEN LATER LW updates (content that is actually designed for casuals), but it would also stall development of further raid content.

A lot of which resources? Imaginary ones? Because all others are already mentioned.

I find you are oversimplifying his statements and assuming development potential to better support your position.

Less rewards is fine, but there are achievements for beating the various bosses, which would be trivialised if they were achievable in an easier mode. And I say this as an achievement hunter who doesn’t raid and would benefit from this. I’m not against the concept of an easier mode per se, but I think this needs to be considered carefully to find a way not let down part of the community just to please another part, which has unfortunately happened before and quite recently.

Dinosaurs.8674:

danielrjones.8759:

I don’t really care either way if they give an easy mode or not. If they did, I doubt I would ever play it. No reason to. What I don’t understand is those against it, I mean if you have no intention of running easy mode then what difference does it make to you if someone else does? Listening to people complaining about something they have no intention of doing sounds childish. imo the bottom line is there are those who don’t want easy mode for a reason, they want to be viewed separately from the casuals.
If the value a person places on themselves is how others perceive them in a make believe world, you’ve got bigger problems than not wanting easy mode.

I don’t care whether an easy mode exists or not, but I don’t want one to be added in for two reasons:

1.) Easy mode inherently has no replay value. It exists to be beaten and then ignored, like SAB infantile mode of dungeon story modes. Which wouldn’t be a problem except…
2.) Designing an programming an easy mode raid would take a significant amount of time away from the raid team designing more substantial content. It isn’t as simple as just changing a few numbers and slapping a new sticker on it. Easy mode raids would take a lot of time up front to create (especially if you want them to be balanced and not just press-1-to-win), and would significantly increase the time needed to be spent on maintenance for the encounters.

Besides, easy raid content already exists in the game. Play the first “boss” of stronghold of the faithful. Play the bandit trio. On an individual level they’re easier than several dungeon paths (though overall they are probably harder due to requiring coordination among 10 players). Even people with no raid experience can have those done in a few hours tops if they read up on the fights.

Gorseval is more challenging for a first timer but if everyone practices their DPS rotation and reads up on his mechanics/watches videos then it’s actually a very easy fight compared to the other raid bosses.

I understand not wanting to spend weeks learning to kill a boss, but if you aren’t willing to spend even a few hours learning the fight then raids just aren’t for you. Preparation, practice, and failure are implicit properties of raids, and honestly even with an “easy mode” or whatever those things won’t go away unless it is press-1-to-win status (which is also awful for obvious reasons). A well designed “easy mode” on slothasor or VG would probably still be harder than bandit trio or the first encounter of stronghold of the faithful.

If you don’t care about the easy mode and don’t intend to play it then why the kitten does it matter whether you think whether it has replay value or not? the rest of 99% of payer base will find plenty of replay value there including me.
And if you wanna talk about wasting resources how about wasting numerous resources and devs on content only 1% of the playerbase plays. If you ask me that IS an actual waste of resources besides it wouldn’t take “significant amount of time” away from the dev team the core mechanics and content has already been developed they just need to rebalance it around smaller squad size. And even if it does takes time i would say that’s an worthwhile endeavour considering that 99% playerbase benefit from it.
In essence all i hear form you elitists is “you can’t have this piece of cake cuz i’m on a diet”. Dont worry you we aren’t asking you special little snowflakes to come down to our lowly level you can stay in your special little corner. All we ask is for an easy mode where the other 99% of players can get in and enjoy without waiting for hours staring at the lfg.