Tank class/build for raids

Tank class/build for raids

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Bohantopa.5729

Bohantopa.5729

So I’m about to have more time to play and will finally be able to tackle the raid instance a little more intensively.

So far I only joined some pug raids as dps, but I actually enjoy tanking (at least in other games) and now want to build up a char for that. For that I need more information, but let’s start with my external parameter: for the moment I still intend to pug the raids, so a broader spectrum of player skill will have to be considered. I do not expect really bad players, just that the average skill is a lower than in raid focused guild groups. This means more downs, non perfect rotations and some bad positioning every now and then.

This leads me to consider that I will need at least 1401 toughness (1 point more than a rezzing ps war) in my “normal” tanking gear and maybe some addtional equipment to raise it even further for the odd cleric equipped healer. Any other toughness boosting trait that I should also consider?

Currently I’m thinking about going chronotank, mainly because I currently enjoy playing my chronomancer a lot, a little bit because it seems a bit more active than other tank classes, but I’m not fixed on it. As quickness is currently one of the best dps boosters, if I decide on going for the chronotank, how much should I invest in +boon duration/concentration? Or should I just go Inspiration line with Illusionary Inspiration?

So basically I would like some comments and other thoughts on tank builds and the reasoning behind them. Which class/build do you prefer to tank with and why (pros and cons). Which class/build do you prefer to tank for you?

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: DresdenAllblack.1249

DresdenAllblack.1249

You will need more than 1 more toughness. We have found that if its even close, some skills will pull the aggro off you. (Case in point when our necro went in shroud).

Angelina is free game again.
Crystal Desert

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: Jade Nekotenshi.8702

Jade Nekotenshi.8702

Here’s the setup I rather like – Reaper, with Decimate Defenses, using Blood Magic, Death Magic and Reaper, greatsword switching dagger/warhorn, in Cavalier’s gear. For food, use Omnomberry Pie, and for utility, the good old Superior Sharpening Stone, Runes should be Vampirism or Scrapper, Sigils should be Blood and Strength (though you could use Nullification or Frailty if you need it).

Why? You get tons of toughness, enough to tank even if you’ve got a healer in Cleric’s or Apothecary’s, as much Ferocity as zerk, almost as much Power as zerk (thanks to the Toughness to Power trait and the stones), and 70% crit with no Precision under raid conditions. You’ll need 25 stacks of vuln on the enemy and fury on yourself to hit that, but in a raid, you’ll usually have both of those things.

Survivability comes from lifesteals, high Toughness, a fast-cycling heal skill (“Your Soul Is Mine” stands out as the right choice here), Shroud and Spectral Armor. True, you won’t do quite as much damage as a pure zerk or valk Reaper might, but you’ll be within striking distance, while able to hold aggro just fine.

Kati Kainulainen – Norn warrior | Irina Kuznetsova – Human elementalist
Baghaar Ironfang – Charr guardian | Maja Sigurdsdottir – Norn ranger
Tarnished Coast

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

So, if you decide to go Chrono tank, there’s a pretty good guide that should help if you decide to go that direction:

Build – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJAsencfC9ph1fC+fCUrhloj6MACsBrePL0DF9w2gFD-TBCBQBRSJI+0D0FleIU9HAcCAwoyg+t/QAeAAkCwrZWA-e
Video Guide – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2CxDFLLLV0

Of course, commander stats is one of the new stats to the game and I’m guessing it’s not cheap, so there’s that to consider.

As for deciding on a class, here’s my 2 copper on which classes can do this well and why:

Chrono Tank – Chronomancers tend to have low personal dps anyways, so having the chrono in your group go tank is generally the lowest hit to dps for your group overall. Also, this makes it a bit easier for the chrono to know where to drop wells.

Rabid Scrapper Tank – Since condi builds don’t rely on power, it’s not a huge dps hit to have a condi scrapper use rabid gear over viper/sinister. The scrapper can also easily land slick shoes for breakbars as a tank when needed. Another advantage is that the scrapper line gives some strong damage mitigation and rez utility. See below for build and video guide:
Build – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalUUhSsYfWwWLQ7FLsFFdwP8JP4HWiBwXFmhHAA-TxhHABFp87l9HIU9HAOBAnpHo2HAAUKBJFAMLrA-e
Video Guide – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNTPZ_Rfhk0

Dragonhunter Tank – The biggest benefit of a dragonhunter tank is the 100% prot for melee that comes from the hammer autoattack. This makes it a lot easier for the melee group to stay alive and makes the role of healing all around a lot easier. “Feel My Wrath” is also a helpful source of quickness if you don’t have a mesmer or are on a highly mobile fight, such as VG.
Build – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAS5ensABddilCBGCBEEhl4BrKA8AqXY9g/zWQe/1/WgA-ThRBABlp8rRlgjq+zW7P8wFBAgnAApAGVqF-e
Video Guide – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQN9RvCjeoI

Druid Tank – The biggest advantage to a druid tank is combining your tank and healer to one person so that you can maximize dps. However, this can be pretty rough and is probably the most difficult to pull off.

Other professions can tank too, but these are probably what I would consider as the top options.

edit I didn’t mention reaper, but they can be solid too for many of the same reasons as rabid engi.

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: SlyDevil.3952

SlyDevil.3952

You can take a rev, put on some knight gear and run the protection in glint for pretty good damage and plenty of sustain.

Hammer guard also has perma prot, with knights gear you get enough toughness and you have access to a bunch of blocks on top of your heals.

Chrono tank has lovely evades on sword 2 and double block on shield(which you want anyways to get out shield phants), the boon duration on chrono is up in the air a bit. Sigil of concentration is great, but costs a lot. You’ll get at least 50% off a rev, and another 20% + 10% off consumables, so you can take conc sigil to get the last 20%, or go for commander’s gear(armour/wep) + 2 knight rings and be just under the boon duration cap and have the toughness you’re looking for.

Scrapper tank(rabid or trailblazer whenever it’s fixed) has great damage and pretty good sustain, but it’s usually only taken over another class on gors because of its cc potential.

Tempest is a more self-sustained tank, it also provides heals onto the group similar to a druid tank. Haven’t really used these so I’m unsure of its damage or support potential outside of heals. I assume the sustain is strong since ele has access to extra strength protection.

Druid provides both the group heals and the role of tank while supporting with spirits, GotL and spotter. You can take clerics gear and get all the toughness you need plus plenty of healing power to get into celestial form off cd. Bristleback, lynx both provide good damage that is independent of your stats, likewise you can bring the panther for a physical source of damage on bosses with lower toughness.

Necro tank can get out a bunch of minions that won’t die to boost its survival with the option of shroud to provide an extra source of damage soaking. Unsure of a necro tanks damage, though it should be pretty comparable to its normal damage if you run condi with toughness.

Thief tank can bring lots of self sustain with malice signet and invigorating precision as well as pistol whip for plenty of evades. I’m not sure how well thief damage does since you usually want to hold the boss still, but also want the multiplier and coefficient from dodging with daredevil on.

Warrior tank I have no knowledge of besides whirlwind attack is not a good skill to use while tanking. They still have access to plenty of group support and lots of healing through signet.

Edit: Also take into account boss mechanics. Sabetha doesn’t have a toughness aggro like others do, so usually a druid will tank because it can do most of its healing at range. VG needs a tank who may sometimes need to run away from every1 else into a lit floor to get the green circles in safe zones.

(edited by SlyDevil.3952)

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: savacli.8172

savacli.8172

Personally, I would go with Chrono tank. Mechanically, it’s a very versatile class that adapt to the team composition. Personally, I find the class very fun to play as well.

As far as builds you’ll want to shoot for something like this.

The weapons, skills, and traits are the concrete part of the build, but you can play around with the gear selection based on what you have and/or how much you’re willing to spend. In other words, if you have full Assassin’s you could decide to go out and grab different gear, or you can just slot in a Knight’s trinket or two and still be okay.

Aside from the typical tank responsibilities you bring the following resources to the team:

  • High Boon and Alacrity uptime (Mesmer offers Quickness but extend other boon duration through Signet of Inspirations)
  • Personal sustain through multiple blocks and evade
  • Healing for both personal and Group
  • Group invul (save someone from a teleport or a failed Green spot)
  • Group damage mitigation through Phantasmal Defenders
  • CC burst for Breakbars
  • Boon Strip

Note: For tanking purposes you just need to focus on your Toughness stat. Heavy classes may still have more total armor, but for the raid bosses that follow the aggro rules they grudge based on the Toughness stat alone.

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: Unratedx.2794

Unratedx.2794

Rabid Scrapper Tank – Since condi builds don’t rely on power, it’s not a huge dps hit to have a condi scrapper use rabid gear over viper/sinister. The scrapper can also easily land slick shoes for breakbars as a tank when needed. Another advantage is that the scrapper line gives some strong damage mitigation and rez utility. See below for build and video guide:
Build – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalUUhSsYfWwWLQ7FLsFFdwP8JP4HWiBwXFmhHAA-TxhHABFp87l9HIU9HAOBAnpHo2HAAUKBJFAMLrA-e
Video Guide – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNTPZ_Rfhk0

I have recently updated this tank.

Written guide (Video Guide in it as well): http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/25393352-dnt-scrapper-tank/post/last#last

I myself have been playing around with Chrono Tank here lately and have been having a blast from it, Everyone who has coined in on it has made really good points as to what they bring to the table. Currently I’m working on a build of my own without Commanders gear and so far the results are pretty good so I should have a guide for it here soon. But there are other guides that are also very viable in terms of running it as tank

Narc:: [DnT] Death and Taxes

(edited by Unratedx.2794)

Tank class/build for raids

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Bohantopa.5729

Bohantopa.5729

First of all, thank you all for the answers. You have given me a lot to think about. For some of you I got questions/answers:

@DresdenAllblack.1249
That is why I choose 1401. If everyone runs pure damage stats they have 1000 toughness, but a warrior with the tactics line gains 400 while rezzing. A necro with the death magic line only gains 180 in shroud, so unless the necro has 12 pets (each giving him another 20) the boss should still prefer me.

@Jade Nekotenshi.8702
I did not consider necro so far, might finally give me a use for mine. Could you create the build in an editor and link it please.

@Dahkeus.8243
I actually did go over the commander stats and was thinking about crafting an armor with it, probably gotta do some farming for mats but I also got some gold if I want to get done faster.
The video you linked is not so much a guide but simply a VG kill video from a chronotank perspective, one I had not seen before so it did give me some new ideas. As you wrote guide I just wanted to ask if you posted the wrong link? If a good guide exists I’m always interested in it even if I prefer a written one (with short video samples) over a full video one (because in most videos the explanations are not that good). I’ll go through the other classes some time later.

@SlyDevil.3952
Thanks for the list, it gives a nice overview of the strengths of each class tank spec. Do you know of any specific weaknesses for certain classes?
Regarding chronotank: So I should go for 50% bonus boon duration, expected as much.

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Doh, you’re right. That was just a vid of the kill. However, I’m pretty sure it’s used very similarly to a normal chronomancer in a raid. DnT has a pretty good written guide: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/25108491-dnt-dps-mesmer-build-for-raids

@UnratedX: Thanks. I’ll update my links.

Edit I forgot to mention, but last I checked, Berserker runes were bugged so that they didn’t give their 6 set bonus, which makes 5x Nightmare + Black Diamond.

(edited by Dahkeus.8243)

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: Jade Nekotenshi.8702

Jade Nekotenshi.8702

Here’s the Reaper build – There’s a few things you could tune if you really wanted to. Bone Minions could be replaced with Well of Suffering – whirl in that for a ton of lifesteal. (Well of Suffering -> Shroud -> Soul Spiral) Transfusion is a bit dubious – try replacing that with Vampiric Rituals if you want to use wells (but of course, VR isn’t helpful if you don’t). Runes of the Scrapper might be better than Runes of Vampirism, but I haven’t tested that rigorously. If you’re having trouble staying alive, try Crusader’s gear instead of Cavalier; if you’re having no issues try replacing some of it with Sinister, or possibly zerk.

Tactically, try to keep both your life force and HP as full as possible – shroud up every chance you get and vampire your health back to full, then drop out and fill up your life force.

Kati Kainulainen – Norn warrior | Irina Kuznetsova – Human elementalist
Baghaar Ironfang – Charr guardian | Maja Sigurdsdottir – Norn ranger
Tarnished Coast

Tank class/build for raids

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Posted by: SlyDevil.3952

SlyDevil.3952

Berserker runes haven’t been bugged for over a month. But the difference between sinister with nightmare + diamond and viper with berserker is only a couple percent which is well within errors during play.

Scrapper tank needs an outside source of heals, they don’t really have any blocks or weapon evades worth using and minimal access to protection. On the upside they sacrifice something like 10% of their damage to tank up and have basically the same rotation. One thing to note is that condi tanks in general sacrifice the least amount of dps to draw aggro as their damage relies mainly on condi dmg and to a lesser extent on expertise/condi duration.

Chrono is a good choice, in that it can already sacrifice up to half its damage in providing quickness/alacrity uptime, so sacrificing a little bit more to go tanky isn’t as noticed.

Tempest I’m unsure about, if you bring it for both healing and tanking, any ranged members for green circles/orb clearing will have to sustain themselves.

Likewise a druid tank moving ahead to keep the boss moving will starve some members of potentially needed heals.

Necro I’m unsure if heals applied to you will work if you’re in death shroud, I know it was an issue before and the problem mentioned was that many necros would go into shroud when their hp was low, but you couldn’t heal the hp up until you had left shroud and were vulnerable again.

Guardian dps isn’t very strong as a tank, but it has really easy access to prot and some minor heals to melee players.

Rev dps is better than guards, but likewise you sacrifice a chunk of ferocity to take aggro. A rev ends up having to tank more hits than a guard due to lack of blocks and an inability to use UA reliably without getting other players hit.

I would guess thief’s biggest drawback would be damage, since you miss out on the dodging damage and the multiplier in order to keep the boss still.

Warrior, no idea, it can still provide might stacks with knight’s gear on, its condi build, like others, doesn’t lose a lot to bulk up.