Ok is that really the best you can do ANET? Timers really?
That’s really the cheapest trick in the book.
If you give a tight enough time limit then any boss will become “hard”.
But that’s not what real difficulty is about.
More over we can do it atm as we have found a meta that can. BUT! There is one problem – ballance updates. The meta can do it but it can only just so one update and it can fall apart. And then what? Well we need to find a new meta thats what. So that means changing gear stats, upgrades, and perhaps even class. Well if we can just give our ascended gear to a different class then it’s not a big deal but if that will be a different weight class then it won’t work. So then what? Another 1000g for a new ascended armour?
So now every ballance update announcement will make everyone tear their hair out eh?
Also I thought GW2 was so anti-holy-trinity. This was the great pride of the game yet now we returned to it.
You can make boss fights difficult without timers. Since Vale Guardian is the first boss I will use it as example. The green circle lightning attack could be an instant kill attack but only to those that are not inside the circle. So everyone would need to run to it or die. Also the Vale Guardian could attack players on random rather than the one with highest toughness. And the Enraged mode could be random but deactivated through the break bar. But no time limit seriously.
Finally there should be no retries i.e. if whole team dies you start whole thing over – just like it was in the elite missions in GW1.
I fought my fair share of difficult bosses and super bosses in video games and I know from experience that in a difficult fight time works against you anyway so why make it literal?
HoT did indeed fix the problem of “inferior classes” but now it’s brought back in raids.
And everyone should be fair game. In a difficult fight everyone should be able to play the class that they feel best with otherwise one cannot really pull out their real skill level.
Yeah some teams would still be able to do it faster but this should be about doing it at all and not how fast.
EDIT: Ok so the reaction is mixed – as it always is. But just as the timer mechanic is cheap there are also some cheap arguments against me.
1) I can’t beat Vale Guardian so I’m complaining (I can and did )
2) What I’m saying is outdated (yeah because we all know raids were introduced 5 years ago – oh wait I commonly mistake weeks with years sorry)
You know these 2 arguments remind me of the “Grammar Police” trolls.
I DON’T CARE got it? I am allowed to state my opinion regardless of how old it can be and/or whether or not I can beat something.
Errr… most teams are beating the raids with 2-3 minutes left on the timers now… The timer is just there to stop full tank teams from cheesing the encounter, it has literally nothing to do with balance.
well, regarding the timers i believe too that it’s meh, but it’s nothing forbidden and they didn’t put it like: timer ends, you’re dead so most times we die from other factors (vale guard green circle, gorseval you run out of updrafts etc)
Second the meta. Meta is the easiest way to run it, not the only one. When a build falls out of the meta, it does not mean that it becomes obsolete or it doesn’t work at all; Also you can change stats on ascended for 5-10g each, not 1000 let alone that you don’t need ascended armor
Lastly, i do believe the “tank+heals” was a good idea. It’s only needed for vg and a bit for gorseval at the moment, as far as i know, but it still gives people incentive to find that “perfect build” that fits right into the role of tanking or healing and gives meaning to traits that no one cared before
If you wipe due to the timer, your party sucks and you have to improve a lot. That’s not the timer’s fault. Raids are currently clearable in full exotics; just getting asc trinkets isn’t difficult at all though and those aren’t class dependant. By the time the meta would change that drastically, you should have enough asc gear collected from raids.
All classes have working builds for raids, although it’s true thieves and guardians are the least seen.
VG and Gors wouldn’t work like they do without their aggro mechanics.
A mode where you need to go through the whole thing in one go would actually be nice, should include a title and whatnot.
OP, you are late, man!
The threads you want to discuss in are about 4 to 6 weeks old and ppl were explaining why the timer is needed (see also 2nd post in this thread).
Stop complaining, if you are too bad to succeed, you’ll have to improve. Get over it and stop opening thread themes that have been discussed already.
If there was no timer, i would put together Hvt classes + druids and cheese all the mechanics as if they were non existent, the amount of ppl selling raid carries would increase and the entire raid instance would end up like current dungeons .It would be laughable when talked as a “challenge”
Timers are an old and tired trick that shows nothing so much as lack of creativity and innovation on the part of Anet. This is what that OP was complaining about.
If you slapped a timer on a Moa in Metric Province, would it be fun? By your standards, it would….
Timers are an old and tired trick that shows nothing so much as lack of creativity and innovation on the part of Anet. This is what that OP was complaining about.
If you slapped a timer on a Moa in Metric Province, would it be fun? By your standards, it would….
Okay, so what would you do to stop people from going full def stats and facerolling through the encounter? Everything would end up being a timer. It’s necessary and timers are relaxed enough that they should only pose a problem at the beginning, if at all. Most parties wipe to mechanics anyway.
The timers avoids that everybody and their mother run tanky builds and complain the boss takes too long to kill and is a bore fest.
Also allows for soft punishing mechanics: you get teleported, ok, you don’t die, but you are wasting dps. You can recover from that, but do it often and you will not be able to. this wouldnt be possible without a timer, since group heals can compensate for people eating damage where they are not supposed to, and instakill mechanics are something different.
Also pushes everybody to improve their output under strain. It’s easy to do a quick high damage rotation when the boss is not going to touch you because he will be death before he can even target you, but it’s more difficult to excel when you have to avoid getting killed, and it’s also much more stressful and, at least for me, fun, if i not only have to care about not dying, but also kicking the kitten out of the boss.
The timer tells you how long you have to finish the fight. They could simply hide the timer and make VG explode the 3 pillars at 8mins instantly killing everything. Do people not feel immersed or something? The boss could literally just say “kitten it” and disappear into an energized mist making you instantly fail the fight, and quite frankly it would make more sense if the guardian put its safety first if the entrance to the spirit woods is gated behind destroying it. The timer is there to give you a general idea, a timer of some kind is always there, do people feel better if they can’t see it? Do we need an extra UI option for going into raid fights blind? Don’t forget to hide your aoe indicators too, don’t need those.
Where people get idea that you can just faceroll everything if you use tanky gear? I have noticed that it takes much more skill solo something tanky gear on that cheese it down berserker gear on.
Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch
Where people get idea that you can just faceroll everything if you use tanky gear? I have noticed that it takes much more skill solo something tanky gear on that cheese it down berserker gear on.
really? what’s the point of tanky gear? to be able to soak damage.
What do you do if you don’t have tanky gear? learn to position and dodge properly, because you cannot eat damage.
so, glasscannon favors a high risk high reward playstyle, and tanky favors a low risk low reward playstyle.
If that’s not correct, if you are still avoiding damage like a pro, then the tanky stats are wasted on you, and you should be running glasscannon to maximise your output.
Timers require high DPS, high DPS builds and gear require you to take less defensive things, less defensive builds are squishier, squishier things die to mistakes, less mistakes mean you need to play better, playing better is challenging, more challenging things are more difficult.
Where people get idea that you can just faceroll everything if you use tanky gear? I have noticed that it takes much more skill solo something tanky gear on that cheese it down berserker gear on.
really?
Junkpile is a troll. You fell for it. Read his signature and check his post history and you will see.
Timers require high DPS, high DPS builds and gear require you to take less defensive things, less defensive builds are squishier, squishier things die to mistakes, less mistakes mean you need to play better, playing better is challenging, more challenging things are more difficult.
^ close to a proof as you can get.
Usually I would agree but in the case of for example VG it isn’t as easy as it seems. Most players are dying to the mechanics not to the timer. Even with a less offensive gear, most of the “bad pugs” I ran with wipe anyways long before the time is running out. It is not the time pressure, it is the missing skill while we have corpses on the ground at early minutes in the fight.
Where people get idea that you can just faceroll everything if you use tanky gear? I have noticed that it takes much more skill solo something tanky gear on that cheese it down berserker gear on.
really? what’s the point of tanky gear? to be able to soak damage.
What do you do if you don’t have tanky gear? learn to position and dodge properly, because you cannot eat damage.
so, glasscannon favors a high risk high reward playstyle, and tanky favors a low risk low reward playstyle.
If that’s not correct, if you are still avoiding damage like a pro, then the tanky stats are wasted on you, and you should be running glasscannon to maximise your output.
Actually when you use berserkker fight takes much less time and you need to avoid only couple hits. VG is much harder tanky gear on because boss going enrage.
Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch
Where people get idea that you can just faceroll everything if you use tanky gear? I have noticed that it takes much more skill solo something tanky gear on that cheese it down berserker gear on.
really?
Junkpile is a troll. You fell for it. Read his signature and check his post history and you will see.
Oh, thanks for the fill in. I never study the guys prontuary before replying on the forums….
FWIW, I have a fairly casual raid guild now, and we spent ~12hours this week on Sabetha. It’s awful. BUT, we got our Eternal kill, b/c over time people were able to learn the mechanics, know when to be there, what their job was, and we cleared it.
Whats my point? I will make it really clear.
If your group is failing to the timers, it is likely b/c your group cannot handle the mechanics, not because an arbitrary timer is causing you to fail. The real enemy is the mechanics of the boss fight
FWIW, I have a fairly casual raid guild now, and we spent ~12hours this week on Sabetha. It’s awful. BUT, we got our Eternal kill, b/c over time people were able to learn the mechanics, know when to be there, what their job was, and we cleared it.
Whats my point? I will make it really clear.
If your group is failing to the timers, it is likely b/c your group cannot handle the mechanics, not because an arbitrary timer is causing you to fail. The real enemy is the mechanics of the boss fight
/thread
Do bosses without dps and gear and come talk then about timers. Actually if condi users would have to wear rabid it would take some skill to do enough dps. Viper and berserkker gear on you can just smash random buttons and still contribute enough. Well some classes can just autoattack whole time because content is so hard.
Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch
Timers require high DPS, high DPS builds and gear require you to take less defensive things, less defensive builds are squishier, squishier things die to mistakes, less mistakes mean you need to play better, playing better is challenging, more challenging things are more difficult.
^ close to a proof as you can get.
Usually I would agree but in the case of for example VG it isn’t as easy as it seems. Most players are dying to the mechanics not to the timer. Even with a less offensive gear, most of the “bad pugs” I ran with wipe anyways long before the time is running out. It is not the time pressure, it is the missing skill while we have corpses on the ground at early minutes in the fight.
The reason they are all dead is yes because of lack of skill dealing with the mechanics but if you then said there is no timer you could all take nomads, not die to the mechanics as easily and reduce the difficulty (this is why the timer adds difficulty to the mechanics even if its not the thing that kills you – it REQUIRES you play skillfully because you can’t take hits from mistakes).
Not to be an kitten but most people complaining are only talking about VG which is the FIRST BOSS if you can’t get your heads around that you’re not going to manage Gorse (which is an actual DPS race for most groups).
The reason they are all dead is yes because of lack of skill dealing with the mechanics but if you then said there is no timer you could all take nomads, not die to the mechanics as easily and reduce the difficulty (this is why the timer adds difficulty to the mechanics even if its not the thing that kills you – it REQUIRES you play skillfully because you can’t take hits from mistakes).
Well, I only refer to the whining people complaining about the timer. The thing I would tell them is: Take a piece of duct tape and place it on your monitor so there is no timer you are suffering from.
But the real issue of these people is, that they are lacking skill. They even die in soldiers gear or anything else. We don’t need to argue that a full group of nomads isn’t a valid point here. You can say that the timer is adding some difficulty, yes, I agree. But the timer is not the mechanic that is responsible for the main difficulty of bad players.
Not to be an kitten but most people complaining are only talking about VG which is the FIRST BOSS if you can’t get your heads around that you’re not going to manage Gorse (which is an actual DPS race for most groups).
Dude, I don’t want to be rude here but Gorse and Sabe needn’t to be mentioned here. The phiws are crying about VG not the others because they can’t beat this first boss. Maybe we will have this discussion again in some months but I doubt it.
People that can, have already changed their playstyle, gear, build whatever and beat the VG and have had only little problems with the rest afterwards. The rest of the playerbase will still sit at VG filling bowl of tears for the delevopers
How is an instant kill mechanic any better than timers? How does telling players to run to a spot or die reward skill or build diversity? Your suggestion is almost wise than the non issue of timers.
How is an instant kill mechanic any better than timers? How does telling players to run to a spot or die reward skill or build diversity? Your suggestion is almost wise than the non issue of timers.
I dont know, maybe because it forces you to play FLAWLESSLY. Organize to a whole new level of coordination and personal accountability. Makes you perform and prevents players to be carried. A mechanic that can’t be exploited like 99% of this game, you either do perfectly or you die.
Timers promote PERFECT play. Perfect play is a result of skill. I dont know what the malfunction is. A full DPS composition still has to meet a certain level of skillful play to meet some of these timers.
In regards to build diversity, it’s possible to maintain difficult play and remove timers. It would have to be done by more difficult boss mechanics. Who knows we might see these in future wings.
[VLK] – No one ever complains about bad Thieves, they die.
