Guild Wars 2

Here is a summary of the buffs and utility that all classes in this game can provide.

GOD KING OVERLORD CLASSES!
Ranger Brings:
Up to 10% flat damage from Gotl
2 extra sources of 10% group damage modifiers with reasonable potential uptime
150 precision
Sun spirit which translates to roughly 4 stacks of burning permanently on the target just for one utility slot.

Warrior Brings:
320 power, 170 condition damage, 170 precision, 170 ferocity

Mesmer Brings:
Perma group quickness
Perma group alacrity
(Technically quickness and alacrity aren’t mesmer specific but alternative sources are far to insignificant to be taken seriously)

On top of these things, these three classes can easily provide perma 25 might, perma fury, perma swiftness, perma protection, perma regeneration, group aegis, plenty of group healing, projectile defense, group invulnerability, high break-bar damage, aoe stunbreaks, group vigor, group stealth, group condi cleanse, portal, and even some group resistance. Basically all of the non profession specific buffs and utility that other classes can provide can be also found in these 3 classes and incorporated into a meta build without needing to make massive sacrifices.

THE PEASANT CLASSES!
Guardian, Revenant, Engineer, Thief, Elementalist, Necromancer all combined bring:
150 ferocity, 150 condition damage
Small amount of life steal when hitting a foe.
They also bring some other boons and utility, but the GOD KING OVERLORD classes already have them covered so it really doesn’t matter.

In conclusion, the fact that 3 classes each have stronger unique damage enhancing buffs than the other 6 classes combined while still covering all other relevant utility is an abomination of an example of balance. It is why mirror comp is here to stay unless anet either boosts buff cap limit to 10 and just accepts that these 3 classes will be automatic best in slot for literally every boss of every raid that they can possibly release from now until forever (admittedly Mesmer could be beat out if quickness/alac were made more common elsewhere) , or they actually try to balance out the distribution of group enhancing buffs.

Don’t forget the extra precision and ferocity warrior brings from Discipline banner.

Yea, its kind of annoying that a few classes have so much more group DPS buffs they can bring than other classes. Ideally it would get toned down somehow, and spread more evenly among classes.

Lahmia.2193:

Don’t forget the extra precision and ferocity warrior brings from Discipline banner.

Added it, I knew I was forgetting something obvious with them, also added group stealth and portal to things the god classes bring.

OriOri.8724:

Yea, its kind of annoying that a few classes have so much more group DPS buffs they can bring than other classes. Ideally it would get toned down somehow, and spread more evenly among classes.

it will with new elite specs

I like how you have a list of things that these classes bring but to bring those they lose on other stuff. And now only warr can stack 25 might. And yes their personal dps is abyssmal (with the exception of burnzerker which atm is broken) All 3 classes can be replaced if new elite specs can do the same stuff ( a symbol quickness guard a might stackig thief) For druid its either give to other gotl or flat out remove it. Oh and make spirits on ranger 10 man buff.

zealex.9410:

I like how you have a list of things that these classes bring but to bring those they lose on other stuff. And now only warr can stack 25 might. And yes their personal dps is abyssmal (with the exception of burnzerker which atm is broken) All 3 classes can be replaced if new elite specs can do the same stuff ( a symbol quickness guard a might stackig thief) For druid its either give to other gotl or flat out remove it. Oh and make spirits on ranger 10 man buff.

Shotgun the might stacking for power necro.

The only problem with class balance is that players have some unreasonable expectations based on their own subjective biases. balance isn’t only a function of what a class brings to a team environment; It’s more complicated than most people imagine. That’s why it’s so hard for a game to achieve it.

Sorry but everytime i see a thread like this it feels like someone is just salty about necro state and wants to vent.

zoomborg.9462:

Sorry but everytime i see a thread like this it feels like someone is just salty about necro state and wants to vent.

Well, probably not /just/ necro, but … nothing wrong with that, is there? Folks have their opinions, and it’s legitimate that they express them.

zoomborg.9462:

Sorry but everytime i see a thread like this it feels like someone is just salty about necro state and wants to vent.

Revenant in this case, but some one who is just generally bored of an extremely stale meta where the same 3 classes have been dominant auto picks for every boss since spirit vale was first released. It would be nice to see at least some cycling of which classes get to be the top dogs, but it has always been these 3 classes. Closest any other classes have gotten to them were ele which was basically just the best filler class since it was the highest dps and rev since mes+rev was marginally better than double mes or single mes+extra dps. Every other class is actually in competition for the limit spots. While for these 3 classes, anet might as well code in a restriction requiring at least 1 of each in every group and no one would probably notice.

The problem is monopoly these classes have on buffs.

take away druid’s party wide dps buffs, quickness from chrono and you already get a situation where:

a) healer can be rev, ele guard or druid
b) tanks can be: condi reaper (just slab some trailblazer next to viper), jalis/glint rev, guardian, ele or mesmer
c) might stackers – that’s really not an issue even at this moment. One warr for banners is the real must. Condi engi can stack quite a lot of might (blasting fire fields), i imagine ele could too, as well as boon duration guard.

If chronopoly on quickness and alacrity gets broken the bag of potential tanks gets open.
For extra healers nerf druid’s damage buffs.
For extra might stackers…well work a bit around how easy it is to do it on warr with no real price to pay for it.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

The problem is monopoly these classes have on buffs.

take away druid’s party wide dps buffs, quickness from chrono and you already get a situation where:

a) healer can be rev, ele guard or druid
b) tanks can be: condi reaper (just slab some trailblazer next to viper), jalis/glint rev, guardian, ele or mesmer
c) might stackers – that’s really not an issue even at this moment. One warr for banners is the real must. Condi engi can stack quite a lot of might (blasting fire fields), i imagine ele could too, as well as boon duration guard.

If chronopoly on quickness and alacrity gets broken the bag of potential tanks gets open.
For extra healers nerf druid’s damage buffs.
For extra might stackers…well work a bit around how easy it is to do it on warr with no real price to pay for it.

they can fix the chono issue buy simply introducing a diff elite spec that stacks quickness. Since no class like warr have acess to quickness by default i see it simply as give the ability to generate quickness to more classes as elite specs. For druid as long as gotl is there the other healers are suboptimal

ArthurDent.9538:

zoomborg.9462:

Sorry but everytime i see a thread like this it feels like someone is just salty about necro state and wants to vent.

Revenant in this case, but some one who is just generally bored of an extremely stale meta where the same 3 classes have been dominant auto picks for every boss since spirit vale was first released. It would be nice to see at least some cycling of which classes get to be the top dogs, but it has always been these 3 classes. Closest any other classes have gotten to them were ele which was basically just the best filler class since it was the highest dps and rev since mes+rev was marginally better than double mes or single mes+extra dps. Every other class is actually in competition for the limit spots. While for these 3 classes, anet might as well code in a restriction requiring at least 1 of each in every group and no one would probably notice.

What do you mean was? Ele still is the highest dps bar none.

I’m sorry but as a revenant you got little room to complain. It’s still THE class for wvw groups, was dominant and overpowered in a couple of spvp seasons and just after multiple nerfs got to the state it’s in now. I was maining revenant after HoTs launch and the class was grossly overpowered and took multiple nerfs first to get to the sad state it is now. I had no problem raiding Spirit Vale on my revenant back then. So no, it has not always been these 3 classes.

Ranger was in a very sad state pre HoT. Not sure I’d be barking up that tree complaint wise.

Warrior has been arenanets number 1 class next to elementalist since launch. Nothing new to see here.

You conveniently bring up mesmer as primary boon/alacrity bot. They are finally desired for something in group. Let’s see how things work out once other classes get access to alacrity and quickness uptime and mesmer dps which is by far the lowest of ALL classes becomes an issue. I’d be perfectly fine with other classes getting access to alacrity and quickness if mesmer in turn can compete for a dps spot.

ArthurDent.9538:

Mesmer Brings:
Perma group quickness
Perma group alacrity
(Technically quickness and alacrity aren’t mesmer specific but alternative sources are far to insignificant to be taken seriously)

Which conveniently were changes made to revenant. Let me guess, if revenants were outperforming mesmers currently in boon and alacrity uptime, you would not be complaining right?

Current raids bring:
- 2 chrono (1 of which can run tank since the dps loss on the lowest dps class is negligable and the boon/alacrity uptime works in tank builds)
- 2 warriors (yes banners are nice)
- 1-2 druids (usually 1 because healers are needed
- 5 dps

Now if you want to complain that Elementalist and cranger are outperforming other classes based on damage and ease of rotation be my guest. But let’s not put all the blame on warrior and mesmers here.

why complain about cranger and ele when stuff like condi thief exist

ZeftheWicked.3076:

The problem is monopoly these classes have on buffs.

take away druid’s party wide dps buffs, quickness from chrono and you already get a situation where:

a) healer can be rev, ele guard or druid
b) tanks can be: condi reaper (just slab some trailblazer next to viper), jalis/glint rev, guardian, ele or mesmer
c) might stackers – that’s really not an issue even at this moment. One warr for banners is the real must. Condi engi can stack quite a lot of might (blasting fire fields), i imagine ele could too, as well as boon duration guard.

If chronopoly on quickness and alacrity gets broken the bag of potential tanks gets open.
For extra healers nerf druid’s damage buffs.
For extra might stackers…well work a bit around how easy it is to do it on warr with no real price to pay for it.

chrono being able to generate quickness is not the reason its always the tank. Quickness chrono is always the tank because their personal DPS is already so low that the group doesn’t lose anything by the chrono not taking full offensive gear so they can pull and keep aggro, and because chrono can still tank while generating their quickness.

But there is nothing stopping them from just not tanking and still providing quickness and alacrity to everyone, nothing. So taking quickness away from chrono would do nothing but kick it out of raids completely.

which would be fair, given how 6 professions have NOTHING to make them mandatory. As it should be with warr, druid and chrono.

OriOri.8724:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

The problem is monopoly these classes have on buffs.

take away druid’s party wide dps buffs, quickness from chrono and you already get a situation where:

a) healer can be rev, ele guard or druid
b) tanks can be: condi reaper (just slab some trailblazer next to viper), jalis/glint rev, guardian, ele or mesmer
c) might stackers – that’s really not an issue even at this moment. One warr for banners is the real must. Condi engi can stack quite a lot of might (blasting fire fields), i imagine ele could too, as well as boon duration guard.

If chronopoly on quickness and alacrity gets broken the bag of potential tanks gets open.
For extra healers nerf druid’s damage buffs.
For extra might stackers…well work a bit around how easy it is to do it on warr with no real price to pay for it.

chrono being able to generate quickness is not the reason its always the tank. Quickness chrono is always the tank because their personal DPS is already so low that the group doesn’t lose anything by the chrono not taking full offensive gear so they can pull and keep aggro, and because chrono can still tank while generating their quickness.

But there is nothing stopping them from just not tanking and still providing quickness and alacrity to everyone, nothing. So taking quickness away from chrono would do nothing but kick it out of raids completely.

Also tanking on chrono is really safe thanks to the broken ass dstortions and the blocks

ZeftheWicked.3076:

which would be fair, given how 6 professions have NOTHING to make them mandatory. As it should be with warr, druid and chrono.

They bring support which is always great as their support translates to dmg for the group the other classes have low to none group support and to balance that out their dmg is way higher making all of the good for dps so you go options which is fantastic. At this moment there is no bette might stacker gotl or quickness stacker and through elite specs they will fill more classes with those roles

You really hate distortion and I don’t understand why. Again though, the mesmer doesn’t even have to be the tank to provide distortion to the group, and likewise the mesmer could give distortion to the tank if the tank was not a chrono. Its not like these force the mesmer to be the tank. Its forced into that role because

A – It can still provide its party support while tanking

B – Its personal DPS is so miserable that putting the mesmer in toughness gear won’t change the overall group DPS at all.

If you guys honestly want to diversify the tank role you should be asking for mesmer to be given more damage, so that there’s actually a tradeoff to making chrono be the tank. That would do so much more than removing quickness from chrono.

no
mesmer will get more dmg through an elite spec like he got the quickness generating through an elite spec. Its not a matter of providing distortion to the group is about how easy it is for the mesmer to provide quickness and effectively take little to no dmg from the boss through invul evades blocks etc. If you want diversity do what gw1 did the best provide diff encounter that favour classes more than others in specific roles etc.

Distortion is hated upon because it’s another chronopoly.
It’s a free “get out of jail card” for party when a raid mechanic is botched and any other party comp would face a deserved wipe.
But once again chrono gets special treatment and can use distortion.

Even ele’s rebound can’t compare, as it affectes only those taking lethal damage (heavily wounded but not dead are left to their fate) and is a one time use elite, while chrono can distort multiple times before ele gets his rebound back on.

How much druid & chrono kits are overloaded is not funny. Warrior is a different offender as he has less unique things going for him, but he gets awesome damage for the amount of support he still provides.

Bottom line this balance is terrible. 3 are mandatory, 6 are an option. I don’t care about chrono “having to be tank cause it’s dps is horrid”.
I care much more about other 4-5 professions not being able to be tanks, despite having tools for it, because chrono.

Likewise for druid.

I’m not arguing that chrono is in a good spot with its unique utility. But you have zero clue how to go about diversifying the tanks. Taking away quickness from chrono will only open up the tank role in that chrono would be kicked out of groups. How does that improve diversity? It doesn’t.

You don’t even seem to understand why the chrono is always the tank.

Meanwhile, any one of the OP’s “PEASANT” classes can bring a build which packs the equivalent DPS of all three “GOD KING OVERLORD” classes combined (or at least most can). Funny how that works.

Revenant wants a word with you.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Distortion is hated upon because it’s another chronopoly.
It’s a free “get out of jail card” for party when a raid mechanic is botched and any other party comp would face a deserved wipe.
But once again chrono gets special treatment and can use distortion.

Even ele’s rebound can’t compare, as it affectes only those taking lethal damage (heavily wounded but not dead are left to their fate) and is a one time use elite, while chrono can distort multiple times before ele gets his rebound back on.

How much druid & chrono kits are overloaded is not funny. Warrior is a different offender as he has less unique things going for him, but he gets awesome damage for the amount of support he still provides.

Bottom line this balance is terrible. 3 are mandatory, 6 are an option. I don’t care about chrono “having to be tank cause it’s dps is horrid”.
I care much more about other 4-5 professions not being able to be tanks, despite having tools for it, because chrono.

Likewise for druid.

warr has less things lol its the best might stacker has empower allies and banners and condi warr can stack great might and has insane dmg for its support plus banners

Rising Dusk.2408:

Meanwhile, any one of the OP’s “PEASANT” classes can bring a build which packs the equivalent DPS of all three “GOD KING OVERLORD” classes combined (or at least most can). Funny how that works.

Except both Warrior and Ranger have builds that pull the same DPS as a “peasant” class.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Meanwhile, any one of the OP’s “PEASANT” classes can bring a build which packs the equivalent DPS of all three “GOD KING OVERLORD” classes combined (or at least most can). Funny how that works.

Come on here, that is hyperbole that isn’t remotely close to true.

ArthurDent.9538:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Meanwhile, any one of the OP’s “PEASANT” classes can bring a build which packs the equivalent DPS of all three “GOD KING OVERLORD” classes combined (or at least most can). Funny how that works.

Come on here, that is hyperbole that isn’t remotely close to true.

its true tho the peasant classes tent to have like 2 or even 3 times the dmg a chrono or a healer druid can pull off. I havent see about warr so idk.

Azoqu.8917:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Meanwhile, any one of the OP’s “PEASANT” classes can bring a build which packs the equivalent DPS of all three “GOD KING OVERLORD” classes combined (or at least most can). Funny how that works.

Except both Warrior and Ranger have builds that pull the same DPS as a “peasant” class.

ranger provides zero buffing and support to the group if he so chooses to go down that root condi warr on the other hand is op

A fine solution is to give mesmer 30k benchmark so we can stop tanking kitten . Enough with tanking, i HAD IT. No more tanks. You know what? Just remove tanking from game.
I also want a sandwhich. A big sandwhich cause im kitten jungry.

zoomborg.9462:

A fine solution is to give mesmer 30k benchmark so we can stop tanking kitten . Enough with tanking, i HAD IT. No more tanks. You know what? Just remove tanking from game.
I also want a sandwhich. A big sandwhich cause im kitten jungry.

good think only like 4 bosses have tanking also giving mesmer 30k outside of an elite spec and as main spec buff will make mesmer broken.

zealex.9410:

ArthurDent.9538:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Meanwhile, any one of the OP’s “PEASANT” classes can bring a build which packs the equivalent DPS of all three “GOD KING OVERLORD” classes combined (or at least most can). Funny how that works.

Come on here, that is hyperbole that isn’t remotely close to true.

its true tho the peasant classes tent to have like 2 or even 3 times the dmg a chrono or a healer druid can pull off. I havent see about warr so idk.

Warrior is the key here, on its own the “support” build pulls nearly as much dps as a peasant classes “dps” build (more than any rev build), and frequently will surpass them in a real raid. For what it is worth condi ranger is also a top tier dps build, but at least has to give up its support to reach that level, but condi druid keeps all the support except a bit of healing over magis and still hits respectable dps numbers.

ArthurDent.9538:

zealex.9410:

ArthurDent.9538:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Meanwhile, any one of the OP’s “PEASANT” classes can bring a build which packs the equivalent DPS of all three “GOD KING OVERLORD” classes combined (or at least most can). Funny how that works.

Come on here, that is hyperbole that isn’t remotely close to true.

its true tho the peasant classes tent to have like 2 or even 3 times the dmg a chrono or a healer druid can pull off. I havent see about warr so idk.

Warrior is the key here, on its own the “support” build pulls nearly as much dps as a peasant classes “dps” build (more than any rev build), and frequently will surpass them in a real raid. For what it is worth condi ranger is also a top tier dps build, but at least has to give up its support to reach that level, but condi druid keeps all the support except a bit of healing over magis and still hits respectable dps numbers.

Condi druid is respectable as lower than most other classes? Yeah but it also loses almost all its healing potential. Yes it will still provide spirits and gotl but little to no healing. Power warr dealls less dmg than rev but it provides high dps buffs to the group. Condi warr has also a dps build which does respectable dps but little to no support and the condi ps is atm overperforming. Other than the condi ps neither the power builds not the condi druid will ever surpass the peasant classes. Also a little something for you. Its not the fact that the 2 "MUST " classes do similar but lower dmg than rev that makes them op or something. It the fact that rev is complete and utter dogshit and the devs should buff all the core traitline buff the weapon dmg and do many more changes coz its sad the flagship for hot to be this pathetic 2 years in the expac.

FYI i believe it should say “worst engi na” on your signature no?

I hope they do plan to address this. Not sure what I’d prefer though.

1. Completely remove all of these ‘class buffs’ that just boost a base stat
2. Make the buffs exclusive and proliferate them (Banner of Strength gives +Power +CondiDamage; this doesn’t stack with Empower Allies or Pinpoint Distribution though)

GotL though I don’t understand why they added it as it is. Isn’t this exactly what Might is supposed to do?

Well GotL can be countered by proper design of other healers, for example:

Guardian healer – let it have high personal dps along healing. Guard is power class by default, so for example trait that grants ferocity scaling off healing with high coefficient.

Ele healer – water fields are ele’s specialty and i hear heals off these are decided by the field caster, not the blast finisher user. So if we were to give ele a trait that ups on his water field power we could have him spend less times in water and more in other attunements.

Rev healer – rev healer is begging to have legends interact with eachother more rather then complete on/off button under F1. The class is supposed to adjust to situation by swapping legends (along weapon swaps), but healer rev is the complete opposite of that – you don’t just leave Ventari for 10s, it spells big trouble for your raid party.

Meanwhile we have at least 3 legendary stances that could greatly synergize with ventari (jalis for tanks, glint for boon share, mallyx for anti-condi), had we allowed ventari’s effects (and their own) last some time after leaving the legend for some legendary combos instead of total system shutdown for a given guy the moment you F1…

I wouldn’t mind F3 where you can control a player-chosen skill of the inactive legend.
For example being in ventari i would be able to call on jalis’s vengeful hammers for more tanking, or while being in jalis to be able to keep my tablet and move it around (ventari’s will hooked up to f3).

zealex.9410:

they can fix the chono issue buy simply introducing a diff elite spec that stacks quickness. Since no class like warr have acess to quickness by default i see it simply as give the ability to generate quickness to more classes as elite specs. For druid as long as gotl is there the other healers are suboptimal

The argument with elite specs is quite a lazy one, because we’ll probably have to go without new elites for a rather long time. In the meantime, they definitely should raise the general buff cap in raids to 10. That would result in warrior, mesmer and druid having one guaranteed spot each and seven spots for competition by dps classes, in contrast to just four right now.

Some issues indeed can only be fixed with a massive update that will probably be reserved for the next expansion. Mesmers need a proper dps build (not just for raids) and that’s not realistically possible without a new elite. But apart from this issue, there’s no excuse not to fix the stuff that can be fixed easily.

CptAurellian.9537:

zealex.9410:

they can fix the chono issue buy simply introducing a diff elite spec that stacks quickness. Since no class like warr have acess to quickness by default i see it simply as give the ability to generate quickness to more classes as elite specs. For druid as long as gotl is there the other healers are suboptimal

The argument with elite specs is quite a lazy one, because we’ll probably have to go without new elites for a rather long time. In the meantime, they definitely should raise the general buff cap in raids to 10. That would result in warrior, mesmer and druid having one guaranteed spot each and seven spots for competition by dps classes, in contrast to just four right now.

Some issues indeed can only be fixed with a massive update that will probably be reserved for the next expansion. Mesmers need a proper dps build (not just for raids) and that’s not realistically possible without a new elite. But apart from this issue, there’s no excuse not to fix the stuff that can be fixed easily.

This would work and I’m sure it’s on arenanets radar, but this would also require a massive rework of all the other classes involving nerfs. Current raids are balanced around current damage done. Freeing up 2 spots to potentially full dps classes (replacing a mesmer by a dps is a gain of easy 10k dps, PS replacement probaly brings 5k). Thus current dps classes would have to be retuned to compensate if such a change were made if not wanting to risk trivialising content.

When looking at balance changes overall you can notice that there is sweet spot arenanet is trying to achieve. Nerfs to eles and buffs to other classes were all part of this process. I doubt adding 15k potential dps (essentially 1 extra class) to a 10 mann group would go unchecked.

When all encounters are essentially balanced for group dps, there’s also another route to compensate for such a change. Just increase encounter health proportionally.

If they up guardian’s elite shout (quickness + fury) to affect 10 ppl instead of 5 (much like mesmer elite) then you could replace druid + chrono with rev + guard combo.

Rev healer or healer+tank with guard tank or dps (if rev does both). I believe the party – wide dps wouldn’t stray far from current meta as while guard would defo bring more dps then a chrono, the rev wouldn’t be giving any party wide damage buffs like the druid (save alacrity), and probs have not so hot damage himself..

Look at this: Everyone thinks nothing is balanced and everyone has their own opinion about what sucks … and you think Anet can fix that? How does a dev reasonably address that?

Obtena.7952:

Look at this: Everyone thinks nothing is balanced and everyone has their own opinion about what sucks … and you think Anet can fix that? How does a dev reasonably address that?

I think pretty much everyone is in agreement that the three GOD KING OVERLORD classes are the most valuable to a group which is why pretty much every group both pug and organized runs with 2 of each (at the very least 1 of each), and these are the only 3 classes about which you can make this claim. New player comes to the forums asking what is a good raiding composition, the general response is always 2 druids, 2 chronos, 2 warriors, 4 whatever it doesn’t matter.

Being most valuable to a group doesn’t indicate inbalance though … it’s expected in a game where certain combinations compliment each other. If that didn’t exist, then there would be a serious and flawed concept for grouping. Also, group content is a small part of 1 of 3 game elements. If you definition of class balance doesn’t include those other parts, you aren’t being objective. If your argument is that classes are not balanced because of some fraction of game content that favours specific ones, then you have a faulty argument.

Obtena.7952:

Look at this: Everyone thinks nothing is balanced and everyone has their own opinion about what sucks … and you think Anet can fix that? How does a dev reasonably address that?

Actually most people think its not balanced that you need to bring 2 each of wars, druids and chronos to share their buffs with the entire party. So that’s one area that Anet could tackle that would make everyone happy.

CptAurellian.9537:

zealex.9410:

they can fix the chono issue buy simply introducing a diff elite spec that stacks quickness. Since no class like warr have acess to quickness by default i see it simply as give the ability to generate quickness to more classes as elite specs. For druid as long as gotl is there the other healers are suboptimal

The argument with elite specs is quite a lazy one, because we’ll probably have to go without new elites for a rather long time. In the meantime, they definitely should raise the general buff cap in raids to 10. That would result in warrior, mesmer and druid having one guaranteed spot each and seven spots for competition by dps classes, in contrast to just four right now.

Some issues indeed can only be fixed with a massive update that will probably be reserved for the next expansion. Mesmers need a proper dps build (not just for raids) and that’s not realistically possible without a new elite. But apart from this issue, there’s no excuse not to fix the stuff that can be fixed easily.

Why is it lazy since the expac is not that far? Its not as easy as you present it to fix the 10 man cap because that would just powercreep stuff to a whole other lvl. For warr you need 1 spot for banners and if someone can stack might as well as warr then you can use that instead of a second warr. Empower allies is what tho on a power based group requires 2 warrs. For druid its still bother me to this day why back when they made timewarp and banners 10 man they left spirits out? Druid can already play as 1 but with spirtis effecting 10 that would make it the default number of druids in groups instead of 2. That still tho doesnt solve the problem that no other healing class bing 10% to all your group. Imo druids should have weaker healing because of that or have gotl stack might idk. other than elites ans utilies like banners and spirits i believe nothing else has to be 10 man that would just make this super strong.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

If they up guardian’s elite shout (quickness + fury) to affect 10 ppl instead of 5 (much like mesmer elite) then you could replace druid + chrono with rev + guard combo.

Rev healer or healer+tank with guard tank or dps (if rev does both). I believe the party – wide dps wouldn’t stray far from current meta as while guard would defo bring more dps then a chrono, the rev wouldn’t be giving any party wide damage buffs like the druid (save alacrity), and probs have not so hot damage himself..

It might possible for guard if he builds boon durr and with the 30% of the rev to be enough to compliment mesmer with timewarp to ukeep quickness to 10 ppl but nly if you buffed the quickness that elite gives. And that by alot. It will also not replace druid.

OriOri.8724:

Obtena.7952:

Look at this: Everyone thinks nothing is balanced and everyone has their own opinion about what sucks … and you think Anet can fix that? How does a dev reasonably address that?

Actually most people think its not balanced that you need to bring 2 each of wars, druids and chronos to share their buffs with the entire party. So that’s one area that Anet could tackle that would make everyone happy.

I didn’t say it was balanced … My point is that if people can’t agree, then how do you think Anet can possibly make everyone happy? Unless Anet starts making things on professions different in name only, the differences will continue to result in what we see here. The problem has nothing to do with classes not being good. it has everything to do with people thinking they can ONLY do with the best compositions and builds.

Tackling this problem wouldn’t actually make everyone happy or even be reasonably possible to do in the first place. Player perceptions do not change with Anet.

So I could have been more clear. A lot of people do agree that the single biggest thing Anet could do for class diversity in raid groups is to make all class specific effects (and to a lesser degree powerful boons like quickness and might) affect 10 players in raid maps. This would mean that you would no longer need 2 warriors or 2 druids to provide their buffs to the entire group, which would open up more slots for other classes to fill.

OK maybe that’s true … but that still doesn’t seem like a good reason for Anet to make exceptional attempts to achieve that when raids don’t require a specific composition to win. It’s fun when people attempt to justify their great ideas with majority rules and meta arguments, but I just don’t see how that’s ever relevant when the game isn’t designed around meta and majority rules concepts.

I think if you distribute buffs so that every class is a buffer, instead of having 4 flexible dps slots, we will have 0 flexible spots and a completely static meta comp. Which doesn’t sound better to me.

Of course, OP is asking for balance. Experience in this game indicates that will never happen. However, making it so all buffs go to 10 players in raids only, is a much easier way to ensure that meta comps bring more of the other classes.