Guild Wars 2

Dungeons should be hard, and I’m happy with this change.

You all QQers need to adapt, that’s all.

Thank you Robert, and please ignore those people. Majority of them didn’t even played GW1, but as a GW1 vet I undestand your design approach and I fully agree

Ele.6318:

Dungeons should be hard, and I’m happy with this change.

You all QQers need to adapt, that’s all.

Thank you Robert, and please ignore those people. Majority of them didn’t even played GW1, but as a GW1 vet I undestand your design approach and I fully agree

lol

I beat Slaver’s Exile on hard mode with H/H before you could even have a full hero party

This argument makes so little sense.

" but you should have anywhere between 15k-25k HP"

I’m a level 80 guardian. Full exotic armor, full runes, accesories. At 80 i only have 13k
Sidekicked to 75, i only have 11k.

You’d only have 15-25 if you had ridiculous gear or if you maxed out vitality/health which some people don’t due to their playstyle and what suits their class.

Vanisher.9216:

Mordikay.8476:

In short CoF was fine the way it was and instead of buffing CoF you should have tuned the other dungeons down to match what CoF was.

So an explorable mode that can be made by a group of 5 random people in blues without even talking to themselves was fine?

CoF second path was easy as kitten.

CoF 2nd path could not be made by a grp in blues without talking. Like i’ve states in previous posts i’v e ran CoF with pugs too and many utterly failed at it. Personally i’m in full CoF set but i have put ALOT of time and runs into it and was actually planning to continue to run it with guildies to gear them up too. I have completed every single exp mode dungeon in the game and stuff like arah to give an example was not enjoyable at all.

I’ve made those dungeons fine and without any or many death but they were simply not worth the gold or specially time investment and that was what made CoF so good. it was worth it in all aspects and a very good way for iunno how to say this “unskilled” players to get into the dungeon system. CoF was well made and I think the difficulty was right for the overall population of GW2.

I personally think this update was needed. The exploreable mode is supposed to be a challenge. It might have been done the wrong way but it was still needed. i wouldn’t mind if they lifted the difficulty even more and lifted rewards. i don’t like the idea of having to run the exact same dungeon 90 times. In CoF i found the story mode way harder than exploreable mode which i see as a huge mistake. Once again, update was needed but it might need slight modifications

First off Robert, I wanted to thank you for putting your reasoning and your work out there, it’s gotta be tough to take this kind of criticism.

I was always wondering why we had to kite the mobs around at that door, that just didn’t seem right. The one time I was in a group where we did fight the mobs, we managed to get them down just fine (well, I died, but I’m an elementalist so it’s to be expected, but everyone else survived).

I appreciate you making this dungeon harder! Now maybe I will be able to find some people willing to go run other dungeons once in awhile.

In GW1, when War in Kyrta content was coming out, there was one quest where you need to escort Courier Falken from LA to… Somewhere. The reward was really, really good for how short it was. Was it challenging? A bit, but it’s worth so much (a plat or something + 5 war supplies?) that I ran it for a few days. I am a bit (well, really) ashamed to admit it, but it was really good reward and I wanted war supplies for some reason – probably an Oppressor weapon for HoM.

The point is, there’ll be times when the designers screw up, making content too easy for it’s reward. They’ll either nerf the reward, or make the content harder. I am not entirely sure how this change is done (I have my doubts still), but sometimes all you can do in a hurry is to… well… hurry up and plug a hole in the dam. You can fix it later, but you got to stop the flooding first.

… I’ll cross my fingers and hope that this is emergency plug, not a permanent fix, and they’ll revisit the issue later.

I pugged a group (all above average in both skill and gear) after the patch with no prior knowledge of this ‘fix’ to CoF. We got to the escort part and no matter what we did we couldn’t get the NPC to path correctly through the area’s we cleared. I’d have no issue with this change (was the single person + NPC port never tested before the game went live?) if the game code behind the NPC AI actually WORKED AS INTENDED. Needless to say myself and 4 other randoms on Sea Of Sorrows left the dungeon (which was previously too easy, I fully agree on that point) unfinished and with no desire to run it again. Way to go ANET.

i agree there was a problem with the escort quest trough the lava. You should not be able to let one guy run to the end and complete the escort.
But the combination the AI of the npc that keeps aggroing mobs instead of going with the group and the respawn timer of imps of 20 sec’s just does not work. also the fact that its near impossible to ress the npc once he’s in the fire if you don’t have a extinguisher is more frustrating than challenging.
sollutions:
- dont let the mobs respawn in the room (let the players clear the path and kill mobs in a controlled way)
- make the npc so that he cant attack and just follows one designated player who talked to him so you can control his movement better and doesn’t suicides into fire.
- create a way to reset the event, if it goes wrong there is a clean way to start over.

are you joking dude? you did not fix anything u made it impossible to handel and every kitten dungeon is now extremly hard even in full exotic.. we are atm in CM doing the 3th encounter path and we are stuck in the big spawnroom.. they are spawning so fst its sick and its impossible to handle it.. u must have been on drugs when u thought this would be any fun for anyone….

I have spent about an hour going through this thread and i have to say, ANet dropped the ball on this one.

Ok, Robert, i can see your point, people was doing Magg’s path way to much, i’m also guilty of that but i did it to get the armor, not because i needed it, i could have gone and farmed Orr for crafting materials instead and you or anyone else wouldn’t have raised and eyebrow.

At reason nr 3, i agree, the boss fight was to easy, making the fireballs do more damage is good but maybe you should have made the real boss the ghost and not a stone floating in midair.

On the other 2 points, you dropped it, the magma field was ok before but now that Magg aggro and attack everything in sight, its near impossible to get him over there, we tried with a full group do a bodyguard move but because Magg goes through the magma, we cant fallow and the fact that, even if we clear a path for him, he wont use it. If it was as simple as to kill everything in there i could understand why some of the mobs are stronger then the others but seeing how every enemy respawn after 5 seconds you will have to have god on your side or a pact with the devil to get him across.

We succeed to get him across once but that was because he bugged and jumped to the ore while we where standing there so the best think you can do is ether 1) make it so that the enemies don’t respawn. 2) make it so that Magg don’t attack anything but will still pull aggro.

Now, about that bomb room. What was you thinking?! i hate to be so blunt with it but i can’t come up with a better question. Even before the patch it was to hard, the enemies where to strong and spawned to fast, i’m a warrior with full toughness, got 19k hp and still i have to kite the mobs simply because they do 8k of damage, spawn to fast and are to hard to kill.

Having to run around a round room with 15+ of enemies after you when you are supposed to kill them isn’t a sign of good design, it just means you are doing something wrong. Like many here have already said, why don’t you make feel more like defending rather then forced survival, have a 2-3 enemies spawn and attack Magg and first when they are dead the next group of enemies spawn, not every bloody enemy at the same godkittentime!!!

Its not fun to run around in that room feeling weak as a baby at level 80, at the end of a game you are supposed to feel strong but that room makes you feel weak and you are loosing your will to play the game because of it.

Think i’m wrong? Think that the dungeon is fine as it is? Then prove it.
Upload a video of you and a random group, running through the dungeon WITHOUT any exotic gear, first then will u have my permission to talk back.

And yes, i know some of my grammar is bad, so sue me, i’m dyslectic and english isn’t my native language

Make this simple.

@Robert

You tried to fix a problem, but are now losing the community. Fix the new problem.

(Also, "The main thing I am seeing, is that people are upset that I took away their super profitable low risk, fast, token grind. I did not go into this thinking everyone would be happy with my changes – I knew I would be upsetting people because I was taking away a super easy speed-run money printer. " -Robert

I find this rude, has a harsh sound to it, not any sorts of professional at all.)

Meh just up the token rewards and we’ll maybe consider doing dungeons. maybe.

The lava room is currently buggy. Even if you get your entire group across the fields with Magg, sometimes Magg will just decide to turn around and burn to death in the middle of the field. Even if you go to Magg, revive him he won’t walk back to the magmacyte properly.

The second run where this bug occurred, he ran to the magmacyte but got stuck in the lava at the edge where the stone flooring was next to the magmacyte.

Out of three runs today, one run had to be reset due to this. One run we had to revive Magg three times to get him un-bugged to finally make it, and on the third run it worked perfectly.

Needs to be patched.

On a side note Robert, the room with the bomb is now ridiculously hard. You do this dungeon to get exotic gear, but this room makes it feel like you need exotic gear to survive. As a Guardian with 30 power, and 30 vitality I barely survive a few moments against these mobs.

You remove the holy trinity for this game, but you throw 20 silver mobs into the center of a room and expect us to… fight it?

Since there is a chance you might read this Rob. Why must someone run this 65+ times to get a set of armor? Some people actually call this endgame. I bought this game because it wasn’t supposed to be a grindy snorefest.

CoF, and most dungeons in general, are now -overtuned-

Stop it, Robert. You -do- have no idea what you’ve done. If your only defense is “mad cuz bad” when you’re playtesting in devlar, you’re a fool.

If you can do this with a random group, let’s see the youtube video! Some strategy. Let’s watch you fight the triple elite spawns for 200 seconds straight.

As said before in this thread, I think it bears repeating since the question has gone unanswered:

Were the changes that were implemented actually tested?

I just ran this after the changes with a group that was fully exotic geared and the results are frustrating to say the least.

1. Escort/lava sequence bugs frequently, thus wasting time.

2. “Door buster” event is clearly not working as “designed”. Our group failed miserably on 5 attempts, even after trying to kill the monsters, which is what the designer intended. This event has become more of a suicide train than it was before, pretty much the only thing you can do is try to kill as many in the first wave as possible, until your group becomes overrun and the only option remaining is to run around and try to heal and dodge as much as possible. In addition, you’ll have to take the quick death and respawn quickly to run back, since your teammates will probably be dead soon too. After 5 attempts, we finally got lucky and the last person died at 99% and the event finished.

Best part about the whole thing? 11 silver repair bill, 6 silver reward.

The combination of the dungeon design changes (which introduce another bug), PLUS the reward nerf do not produce an enjoyable playing experience.

If you think a tougher encounter is necessary because of the loot yielded, then go in and redesign the encounter to be up to par with the loot. Don’t change a couple variables (event duration, mobs spawned) and then nerf the rewards. I could see maybe one of these changes going in, but both in combination make the process of getting CoF gear even more tedious, redundant, frustrating, and it feels like even more of a grind. There’s no rhyme or rhythm to the CoF changes, the dungeon hasn’t become more difficult, just more random and buggy.

You slowed down the token grind by introducing bugs and randomization. Success? I’d say no.

Robert

I made this path hard, because it was easy. It’s an explorable dungeon path, and they should be hard. Wearing the flame legion armor set should be a symbol of what you went through to obtain something. It should mean something. Right now it means you did 40 speedruns in 2 days.
I hope this helps a bit, but I understand you’re upset. For all it’s worth I’m sorry, and I hope we can move past this.

Robert,

Let me say thanks for responding to the player base. It takes a lot of guts to throw your reasoning out there.

I am a good example of what a huge chunk of your playerbase is like. I want to do WvW and kill people—it is the main draw of the game for me. I want to get to 80 as fast and easy as possible, using the cheesiest methods possible. I am not interested in your PVE content or your dungeons beyond the gear/money that they provide. When I hit 80, I ground dungeons to get exotic some gear and crafted to get other gear. I’m now in a full exotic set on my main (a necromancer) and I wreck faces with him in WvW.

I’ve just got my Guardian alt to level 80 and now I’ve got an issue. Everyone else who levels at a half-way quick pace already has full sets of exotic gear and your precious CoF amor is EVERYWHERE. It didn’t take these players hours of painstaking dungeon runs to acquire their gear but now new 80’s are going to have to endure that to get the same reward.

So, on my necro I’ve got a massive advantage over new players. My Guardian is at a massive disadvantage because an easy to acquire gear method (speed runs) is being systematically nerfed. To be honest with you Robert, you’re alienating a huge portion of your user base here. The PVP folks will tolerate easy PVE grinds as long as they are reasonable but they won’t tolerate these annoying (and unimaginative) dungeons.

Fix CoF (its broken now, you’ve made it entirely unbearable) and stop systematically nerfing dungeon runs; or get your crafting dev to add every stat combination to crafted gear so PVP players have a non carebear option for getting quick gear. Make all of the crafted gear look like Level 1 trash gear for all I care… just make sure the stats are there.

TLDR: I realized a rambled a bit there… in summary:
Give us a way of easily obtaining level 80 exotic gear in every possible stat combination. Make it look like trash if you want, we don’t care. Until that happens, reimplement speed runs of dungeons. Nothing is holy or sanctimonious about PVE… including your CoF gear set.

P.S. While you’re at it, get Mike to raise the drop rate on badges in WvW.

To M.Hrouda:

I am sorry to say this but you sir, are completely out of touch with reality.

First off, I am not sure where you are getting that 15-25k HP ballpark from? I am a DPS specced Thief wearing full exotic and I am nowhere near 15k HP. The same can be said about Elementalists, Mesmers, Rangers so on and so forth. Unless you specifically gear up to have as much HP as possible, 15-25k HP isn’t achievable.

Second off, the reason most people decide to kite their way through the door buster episode is simply that there are just too many mobs that hit too hard and have too much hp. You can easily end up tanking 7 or 8 elites simultaneously. Now, if I get this right, most encounters in the very same dungeon you created are comprised of 2 to 3 of those same elite mobs.

2-3 elite mobs being your “standard” for difficulty throughout the dungeon.

5+? Makes me wonder what in the hell you are thinking.

CoF is very hard now( Spent all evening with const party and failed( tried 2nd and 1st way

Raykor.8136:

As said before in this thread, I think it bears repeating since the question has gone unanswered:

Were the changes that were implemented actually tested?

This. I can’t blame Robert here for not testing it – MMO game design is a crappy job where you get last minute notice and you have to rush crap out. However, if that is not the case then there’s not as much a legit excuse.

And if it’s a rush job due to time constraint, everything makes perfect sense. There was a semi-exploit where players were getting levels and money way too fast for the health of the game and it needed to be plugged. Is it a crude barricade? Yes. Is it effective in stopping the dam from crashing and taking the game with it? Yes.

Just thought I would add my opinion since everyone else is. I just got to 80 yesterday and started farmin CoF…Only had 75 coins when the patch came. I cleared path 2 finally after about 50 silver 3 parties and 2 1/2 hours later. Path 1 and 3 I spent about 2 hours with 3 different groups wiping and giving up. Half of the people in our group at any given time already had 50-90% of the CoF armor yet were still getting their a** kicked?
I told my wife that I would be able to play this game casually and be ok with it (because that’s what arena net promised this game would be) but updates like this will make it nearly impossible so I literally logged off frustrated and have no desire to play atm. I don’t like the idea of the dungeons being so easy so I’m glad they are harder, but at least reduce the amount of coins you need so that we don’t have to spend the next month every single time we log in doing the same thing just to get the gear.
I’m glad they are trying to make it to where people run multiple parts of a dungeon rather than just doing one over and over but it’s kind of silly having to learn to die in intervals to beat a part of a dungeon and then not get as much money out of it as you spent in repairs. Where’s the casual progression in that?

Harder dungeons that require skill but not super frustrating and lessen the amount of coins needed would be the perfect fix imo…Getting the 15 coin bonus once a day in each path when they are all nearly the same difficulty will get much better results.

Don’t even get me started on the legendary weapon holy cow…How you gonna dethrone WoW with another grind fest game?

I’m back for another quick comment because this thread is sokittenaggravating.

If your goal was to get us to spend more money buying gems… then ignore all of these posts. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Just did CoF explorable, and I fully agree that it’s complete and utter bullpoop.
that door buster event? it’s the same as the AC explorable route with the destroyer hatchlings, we’re just NOT able to kill them if it’s a kite event then it just turns into a corpse conga. something your players have been warning you they are NOT HAPPY WITH AND WILL NOT PUT UP WITH.

Is this working as intended? bear in mind the only time that term is used is to playfully be sarcastic to developers, and is usually a rhetorical question

There is no real arguments against this. THE REWARDS, DON’T JUSTIFY THE EFFORT OR THE COSTS, where is the incentive? those that have finished it clearly now are being snowflakes and claiming that it should be harder, AFTER DOING IT WHILE IT WAS EASIER. Are those the hypocritical players that we need to be listening to? if you do continue down this path you alienate the rest of the playerbase, you alienate the rest of the playerbase and well… gluck, your game will stop generating revenue

If you’re tuning the dungeons for the buyable gem items again, you now have something you were WARNED about before. pay to win issues. If we see that then it won’t just be your game itself that gets kittencanned, you’ll seriously join a long list of bad companies like gala.net etc who are known for it.

I’m really wondering if the developer team who made this game are still working on it, lol the changes are kitten compared to the beginning potential, what on earth are you lot doing???

At this point I’m more likely to pity a player I come across with dungeon gear that was gotten after these changes, cos they clearly put up with some grade A rubbish to get it, and nothing is worth that kind of punishment. At least not in a friggin mmo…

I get that the gear is supposed to be a symbol of what you went thru but so many people already have it I’m pretty sure it’s to late for that…CoF is just going to have to be the first gear people go for to look cool and come out with some cooler looking gear that is harder to get

Please don’t pull a “Jay Wilson” on us…I’m playing this game only for a reason lol

Amazing job on the game other than that tho

I seriously cannot believe how the majority of people view dungeons and other things. This is entitlement at its worst.

Nothing in Guild Wars 2 that makes you stand out from the rest of the players should be easily obtainable in any way. Everyone seems to think that dungeon gear, cultural weapons, cultural armors, legendary items, specific skins, karma and money should all be obtainable with minimum efforts and during a very short period of time. Better yet, you all seem to want these things for free!

Do you not understand that you yourself are making this a grind because you cannot take it slow and with more ease? It’s not like any of this stuff is running away from you or will become completely worthless after a few months.

Sure, it’s nice to look unique and stand out, but that’s quite an oxymoron if everyone wears the same exact armor and weapons like you because it’s so easily obtainable!

All of the above mentioned things are long term goals. You aren’t supposed to grind them, they will come naturally to you as a reward for experiencing the various content this game has to offer. You all seem to rush through this stuff like your life depends on it instead of really doing what you want to do. Obviously, if grinding/farming things is becoming a chore for you, you should stop and do something else you actually enjoy doing.

What exactly will you do after having obtained everything you want? Will you come here to complain about the lack of content because you rushed through it? Will you simply quit the game because there is nothing left to do for you?

@ Robert:

We still managed to do a run in 20 minutes, and the difficulty really is fine. Maybe a tad on the difficult side, but still not Flame Effigy overtuned.

What irks me:
- Fire extinguisher room NPC AI is terrible. He randomly attacks mobs off the path and dies. Terrible.
- The kite / bomb setup / damage race room is bonkers. We stacked our boons, and still ended up graveyard training. We were able to kill the first pack of mobs before the second spawned, but then the event overwhelmed us. Maybe tone down the amount of mobs a bit? The “extra bow dude”… wasn’t the best idea. Imho.

What really irks me:
Dungeons are not rewarding anymore. After doing exactly one run (not per day, I really mean once, to experience the dungeon) in each explorable mode there is no reason to do more.
Loot drops are utter crap (pardon my French), the token sets take too much tokens to be worth while.
And if you do decide to grind out the 70ish runs (!) it takes to get a full set of armor (which is a massive time investment) in one wing (which was already indirectly penalized by awarding a badge bonus for completing differeng wings once a day) you start to lose coin (which is a big deal, considering the time you spend grinding for tokens in dungeons).

I’ll take a bit of a dungeon break until something is done about these issues.

Akula.8250:

I seriously cannot believe how the majority of people view dungeons and other things. This is entitlement at its worst.

Nothing in Guild Wars 2 that makes you stand out from the rest of the players should be easily obtainable in any way. Everyone seems to think that dungeon gear, cultural weapons, cultural armors, legendary items, specific skins, karma and money should all be obtainable with minimum efforts and during a very short period of time. Better yet, you all seem to want these things for free!

Do you not understand that you yourself are making this a grind because you cannot take it slow and with more ease? It’s not like any of this stuff is running away from you or will become completely worthless after a few months.

Sure, it’s nice to look unique and stand out, but that’s quite an oxymoron if everyone wears the same exact armor and weapons like you because it’s so easily obtainable!

All of the above mentioned things are long term goals. You aren’t supposed to grind them, they will come naturally to you as a reward for experiencing the various content this game has to offer. You all seem to rush through this stuff like your life depends on it instead of really doing what you want to do. Obviously, if grinding/farming things is becoming a chore for you, you should stop and do something else you actually enjoy doing.

What exactly will you do after having obtained everything you want? Will you come here to complain about the lack of content because you rushed through it? Will you simply quit the game because there is nothing left to do for you?

Do you understand that people work/play at different speeds? Some people want their stuff fast, and are willing to grind it out. Do not say that Anet should punish those people, Incorrectly mind you. I was planning on running for a different set myself anyway. I was running this CoF with a friend because he wanted the set for looks. There is nothing wrong with the old design. If they wanted the difficulty up, fine. They didn’t do that right. Stop commenting on something you have no idea about. this dungeon was destroyed by this patch, and no one will run it anymore. That is not good design. Until you run it the way it was meant to be run, do not say that this is a good change.

P.S. You can not run this the way it was intended. So please take your Fanboy attitude somewhere else.

There are days when I’d love to see these developers making these decisions setup a stream. Then show how they’d do these events. I’d love to see how the developers would run the bomb room post patch, because I call BS on their ability to stand there and fight that group of mobs with any realistic expectation of survival. Please, I’d love to see the developers run the new CoF Magg room and stand there fighting the mobs.

Even before the patch fighting those mobs was difficult. My group would kill the first 2-3 spawns and then have to kite the rest of the time because they’d eventually overwhelm us otherwise. Now it’s a complete joke with how they’ve tuned that room.

Yes, the CoF Magg runs were too easy. However, adding the DR to the dungeons would have solved that problem. Instead they add DR and then actually make the worst part of CoF Magg even worse. Completely out of tune with reality.

I would love to see the designers complete the bomb room fighting Not a chance they would make it

when i bought GW2 i thought , they said it was a FUN focused game trying to get rid of the GRIND , i’m not complaining about the difficulty of dungeons it’s about the REWARDS i have a problem with , hell the rewards can BARELY GIVE YOU YOUR MONEY BACK from the repair from the overpowered one-hit KO mobs from the timer event , right now THE GAME IS NOT REWARDING , it reminds me of those Korean MMOs where you have to grind as hell to get to something , seriously once i get my exotic set i will NEVER return to those grindfests , IT’S NOT FUN , IT’S NOT REWARDING.

Honestly, I feel like they took a look at the metrics and saw a HUGE spike in CoF option 2 and made a knee-jerk reaction. I don’t mind a more difficult encounter as long as the rewards are on par with the difficulty and time needed to complete it. Either increase the rewards on each run or lower the amount of tokens it takes to buy the gear.

Akula.8250:

I seriously cannot believe how the majority of people view dungeons and other things. This is entitlement at its worst.

Nothing in Guild Wars 2 that makes you stand out from the rest of the players should be easily obtainable in any way. Everyone seems to think that dungeon gear, cultural weapons, cultural armors, legendary items, specific skins, karma and money should all be obtainable with minimum efforts and during a very short period of time. Better yet, you all seem to want these things for free!

Do you not understand that you yourself are making this a grind because you cannot take it slow and with more ease? It’s not like any of this stuff is running away from you or will become completely worthless after a few months.

Sure, it’s nice to look unique and stand out, but that’s quite an oxymoron if everyone wears the same exact armor and weapons like you because it’s so easily obtainable!

All of the above mentioned things are long term goals. You aren’t supposed to grind them, they will come naturally to you as a reward for experiencing the various content this game has to offer. You all seem to rush through this stuff like your life depends on it instead of really doing what you want to do. Obviously, if grinding/farming things is becoming a chore for you, you should stop and do something else you actually enjoy doing.

What exactly will you do after having obtained everything you want? Will you come here to complain about the lack of content because you rushed through it? Will you simply quit the game because there is nothing left to do for you?

I agree with your sentiment, but the reason why I’m upset about this change is not because dungeons need to be harder. It’s because the changes implemented today don’t make CoF harder, it makes it more buggy. Have you even run CoF before? Have you run it today after the patch? Please do and let me know if you still feel like lashing out against the players on here who are upset with the way the changes were implemented.

Suddle D.9412:

Honestly, I feel like they took a look at the metrics and saw a HUGE spike in CoF option 2 and made a knee-jerk reaction. I don’t mind a more difficult encounter as long as the rewards are on par with the difficulty and time needed to complete it. Either increase the rewards on each run or lower the amount of tokens it takes to buy the gear.

Have to agree with this and having a kneejerk ‘lets put a STOP to this’ attitude really isn’t helping anyone, least of all ANET. Lets face it….the change wasn’t a well thought out ramp up of difficultly was it?

Vewen.8016:

I don’t have issues with making things tougher. What I have an issue with, is making things so extremely tedious that skill goes out of the room and luck starts to turn its head(in the room after the bombs in COF, I got fire spawned on me, nothing I could do. This happened several times. The reason it spawned on me, was because mobs kept coming faster than we could handle. And we brought major dps). Also, magg just likes to run in fire and get killed, and if he lays in fire, forget ressing with the insane amount of mobs. It’s just pure luck if Magg decides to actually do the right thing. PLEASE PLEASE test your changes before you introduce them. The dungeon is just broken.

And it just isn’t worth it anymore. If it takes double as long to do a dungeon now, half the amount of tokens required to get everything. It takes too bloody long now. A dungeon might be fun the first 30 times you do it. Afterwards, let’s face it, it becomes a grind. Not to mention the amount of gold you lose in this game from repairs, waypoints, and whatnot. I’m not joining dungeons anymore for the time being, I can’t pay for the repairs anymore. Yes, I can’t pay for WvW with the zerging or the dungeons anymore. Some people don’t have the time to grind an entire day or play the TP in order to get money. Sometimes, I’m starting to wonder if the devs are aware ofo what they said in the manifesto.

Akula.8250:

I seriously cannot believe how the majority of people view dungeons and other things. This is entitlement at its worst.

Nothing in Guild Wars 2 that makes you stand out from the rest of the players should be easily obtainable in any way. Everyone seems to think that dungeon gear, cultural weapons, cultural armors, legendary items, specific skins, karma and money should all be obtainable with minimum efforts and during a very short period of time. Better yet, you all seem to want these things for free!

Do you not understand that you yourself are making this a grind because you cannot take it slow and with more ease? It’s not like any of this stuff is running away from you or will become completely worthless after a few months.

Sure, it’s nice to look unique and stand out, but that’s quite an oxymoron if everyone wears the same exact armor and weapons like you because it’s so easily obtainable!

All of the above mentioned things are long term goals. You aren’t supposed to grind them, they will come naturally to you as a reward for experiencing the various content this game has to offer. You all seem to rush through this stuff like your life depends on it instead of really doing what you want to do. Obviously, if grinding/farming things is becoming a chore for you, you should stop and do something else you actually enjoy doing.

What exactly will you do after having obtained everything you want? Will you come here to complain about the lack of content because you rushed through it? Will you simply quit the game because there is nothing left to do for you?

NO, just NO… something you earn for prestige of sorts, shouldn’t be THIS much of a nightmare to the point where no one in their right mind would be bothered doing it, and players already have obtained at an easier difficulty. Time consuming? yes sure make it take longer, but force us to run specific classes, on specific builds because they can’t tune their instance dungeons and well….
congrats you’ve JUST gone against the bring the player not the class mentality that this game promised….

THAT is the crux of the arguments…… your claims of “snowflake entitlement” are wrong

Urge to kill rising!!1111111

I have nothing further to add that hasn’t already been said in regards of dungeon difficulty. CoF is overtuned, that much is obvious (to the players who actually took the time to test the changes implemented in a LIVE server).

What I have to add is the following:

Speedrunning through dungeons or not, these tokens are not the only method of obtaining your full exotic imba set of shining cheer. You have professions. Gather the materials, level them and craft your gear. That’s how a lot of players got their hands on sweet loot, myself included.

If you think the CoF set is pretty, then your reason to pursue this set is merely for looks. Don’t use the excuse that it’s impossible to obtain gear. Gear up through other methods and take your time working towards the look you desire.

TL;DR: The dungeon is overtuned, but dungeon sets aren’t the only good gear you can find.

I got the number 69,8 or something runs not “Right now it means you did 40 speedruns in 2 days”. that is 30 more runs and aprox 15 -20 more hours.

The opinions that will save this game will be pushed down as “Whining” or “Self entitlement” By the fanboys that aren’t even at the dungeon we are talking about. They have not done this dungeon, or they would know that this change is horrific. Therefore they have no right to comment on what was a good change, and what was not. The sad part is, we actually ARE getting ignored due to that. The people complaining, fanboys, Are the only ones that can save your game. This game is going to lose money due to this. This was the final straw for a lot of people. Those people, myself included, WILL be getting their money back. We were lied to, and kicked in the face. This is not how i wanted GW2 to end up.

I actually just read Robert’s post (just read the OP last time)

“3. I made the fireballs hurt more. Not greatly more – they’ll do about 3-4k damage to a DPS focused player, but you should have anywhere between 15k-25k HP, so there’s a bit of wiggle room for error.”

Dude are you serious with this? I have 12k hp at level 80, with 10 points in Water Magic. I could definitely have more vitality, yes, but I also have a good chunk of Toughness. I think your expectations for player stats are drastically out of line with what they really are. A DPS focused Warrior or Engineer or a class with some actual base health will be able to take a few hits, but the horribly base-statted Elementalist gets screwed even more.

Trollocaust.7196:

Unless you specifically gear up to have as much HP as possible, 15-25k HP isn’t achievable.

Actually it is, without any traits allocated at all level 80 thief has 17k hp, if you stack toughness and vitality you get ~20k (sigils, runes, and base equipment: sPvP presets which does not impact hp).

CoF is 75 right, so unless you telling me that 5 levels is worth of way more than 3k hp, since you are getting nowhere near that, then your statement does not add up.

I honestly think it’s pretty scary that a designer of this dungeon believes that downscaled players to level 75 should have around 15k-25k hp when multiple people already stated that they’re nowhere near this amount.

What I don’t get is if they want things scaled then have the instances scaled for that current level. IE your level 40 in explore mode for CM then you get 5-6silver. If your a 80 in the only 80 instance then you GET 26S for completing the thing. Make it appropriated for that level no more blind nerfs and 0 play testings. That’s how games start to fail and you have a dissconect from the players to he devs.

My biggest concern now is that tons of players already have the full CoF gear set because they farmed the hell out of it with speed runs.

What’s the point of doing the new and harder version for the awesome gear skins, when a bunch of unskilled players are already running around with it?

The CoF gear set is already known by the community as the “easy”/“starter” dungeon set. Please, make some skin change or way for the actually skilled players who do CoF now to differentiate themselves from the rest.

ajpearman.2586:

My biggest concern now is that tons of players already have the full CoF gear set because they farmed the hell out of it with speed runs.

What’s the point of doing the new and harder version for the awesome gear skins, when a bunch of unskilled players are already running around with it?

The CoF gear set is already known by the community as the “easy”/“starter” dungeon set. Please, make some skin change or way for the actually skilled players who do CoF now to differentiate themselves from the rest.

It doesn’t take skill to run any path of any of the dungones in this game. It only takes a level of tolerance to put up with poor design and buggy mechanics.

Step down from the pedestal please.

Read all the pages and Robert’s (the designer of CoF dungeon) reply, I have to agree with both parties, the instance was very easy, it took less then 30 minutes and you got tons of rewards from it. However now the instance is broken, no matter how you wish to claim otherwise, even during the lava pit area, Magg does not act like he is intended to, he clearly attacks enemies/mobs that are far and away from him, leading to his death because he runs into the lava. There are times when he just runs into the lava itself while the group is still coordinating.

Please fix the lava part, I understand you want all 5 players to go to the other side, and thats fine but the way it is currently, the game is broken, magg is broken, he runs into lava pits, into hoardes of enemies, sometimes doesn’t even give the extinguisher, and you have to ask all the members in your party to die so he can be reset. (This is not fair, the players should not be forced to kill themselves for a npc to reset, this is a flaw in the dungeon design, not the players)

As for the door part, the only solution in my mind is scrap it and redo the whole part, nobody can fight that many enemies before the spawn timer for the next wave kicks in, if the intent for that part of the dungeon is to fight that mob and protect magg, that needs to be seriously redone, not all the players are warriors/guardians, not everybody has a high dps, you are alienating other classes because they cannot perform as well as the other classes. (also somebody mentioned a tactic for a person to go 1 by 1, 1 person dies, and the other person enters room and etc..so the mobs are always busy, yes that may work but that is still not the intent of the dungeon as per what Robert says, if the intent is too fight, please make a realistic fighting area)

Wearing the flame legion armor set should be a symbol of what you went through to obtain something. It should mean something. Right now it means you did 40 speedruns in 2 days.

Totally not on the subject of CoF only, what we are supposed to go through if farming one dungeon or another dozens of times. You know, the grind and unfun part in your fun and non-grindy game.
I’m still waiting for any of you guys to give an explanation of what happened with your original design.
I am sorry but running a particular dungeon 40-70 times proves nothing more than running it 10 times does, skill wise. It only proves that a player has too much time.
And that you guys decided to give up on your great ideas from 2 years ago.

Hey guys. Guess what?

People aren’t upset because the dungeon is supposed to be ‘harder’. People are upset because now a path which could actually be completed in under an hour is bugged even more than before.

I’ll echo someone else’s sentiment from the thread by saying, if you’re going to look at the stats and say, ‘Hmm.. the majority of the player base are running only 3 dungeons and a certain path in each one.’, then you need to re-evaluate the other dungeon paths and fix them. Clearly you missed something in your testing because the “fix” to CoF #2 introduced more bugs. The only difficulty increase is a result of bugs introduced.

Where the hell did you get the idea of the average player having at minimum 15k hp?

EVERYONE I ever run this with was sub16k with the majority under 13k

My groups guardian which has full vitality gear is nearing 14k

Seriously….if that was your trashold no wonder people are complaining (i ahven’t run it yet because all my friends are now playing borderlands 2 and have no interest in guild wars 2 till it changes endgame pve)