The CoF Buff: My opinions
I haven’t run TA for 3 days and I just finished one before server shutdown. I got 6.5 silver only… WTF…
it’s not fair to say that people are running CoF/Magg because it happens to be a “super easy, super fast money/token run.”
A lot of people probably run it because many dungeons have balance issues or are too buggy to reliably complete. I did Honor of the Waves explorable today and fell through the floor continuously at the last boss chamber, making the dungeon unwinnable.
If people are running this one because player damage and HP are so much lower than mob damage/HP, and in this one the same issues are present but at least possible to circumvent, maybe the problem is the thing that pushes us all into CoF in the first place.
And if we’re not supposed to grind tokens, why do all the gear require an amount of tokens that necessitates grinding? You could try things like giving the players enough tokens to buy a piece of gear for completing all the different routes of an explorable for the first time, for example. Something to take the edge off the intimidating token requirement and encourage people to pick different options every now and then. I think if there’s going to be a dungeon lockout timer based on a certain number of runs per day then the amount of tokens given needs to go up (or the price, down).
(edited by Turtles All The Way Down.5608)
I’m strugguling ot find how some people find the dungeons fun in this game. So far we have nothing to do at level 80 other than die and respawn in dungeons. I did everything there was to do in GW1, it took me a lot of time. But with this bigger and better guild wars after 3 weeks I feel like there is nothing left to do.
Regarding Cof I must really say that nerfing it (even though a team of wars and guardians can still kite it easily) before fixing the bugs in the instane is really insulting. one out of every two runs mag buggs.
One time we ended up being able ot loot an extra chest because we were all dead when the door exploded but it considered that mag dies before the time ran out o in the end we killed boss got chest than redid the door blast while mag was safely resting in the boss room, got the chest for door part and then we were able to reloot the end chest.
I dont know if this is a one time thing or if people are able to farm that but its a pretty nice bug.
Anyways instead of making everything impossible to get because you left A LOT OF BUGS in the game it might be time to iron out the bugs and make things doable (cultura armors anyone?) for the regular people.
PS: if someone from Anet staff feels that I should have left the instance when it bugged and that what I did is vastly immoral and I deserve a ban; go for it. I paid the 60$ for the game and considering it’s state atm it sure seems like I have nothing left to do in it.
most of us agree with nerfing the speed running, what most people disagree with is the reward slicing.
No, from reading a fair amount of responses in this topic, most people do not agree with nerfing the speed running (at least not in the way that has been done).
For the record…
Exotic armor in general is around 3.5g a piece
So that’s around 14 runs of CoF @ 26s per run, but you can easily get 3.5g @ 10-12 runs including drops and Gate of Flame event.
For a full set, you’d need ~60 runs
Lowest piece of exotic armor (Flame Legion) is 180 tokens which is 9 runs of CoF @ 20 tokens per run. You need 1380 for a full set which is ~70 runs.
Now take into account Armor repair. Let’s say ~3-4 runs you need to repair @ ~10.5s per repair.
If you are going for Exotic Gear:( (350s x 6 ) + (10.5s x 15)) / 26 = ~90 runs @ 26s
If you are going for Flame Legion Exotic in tokens: 1380/20 = ~70 runs @ 20 token
Flame Legion set effectively costs : 70 × 26s = 18.2g
In terns of gold, Flame Legion average per piece would then be : 18.2g/6 = 3g
However, including repair costs, Flame Legion set would then be : 18.2g + (10.5s x 18) = 20g 9s
Then the average Flame Legion piece would be : 20g 9s / 6 = 3.35g
Flame Legion exotic set : 20g 9s
General exotic set : 21g
For the record…
Exotic armor in general is around 3.5g a piece
So that’s around 14 runs of CoF @ 26s per run, but you can easily get 3.5g @ 10-12 runs including drops and Gate of Flame event.
For a full set, you’d need ~60 runsLowest piece of exotic armor (Flame Legion) is 180 tokens which is 9 runs of CoF @ 20 tokens per run. You need 1380 for a full set which is ~70 runs.
Now take into account Armor repair. Let’s say ~3-4 runs you need to repair @ ~10.5s per repair.
If you are going for Exotic Gear:( (350s x 6 ) + (10.5s x 15)) / 26 = ~90 runs @ 26s
If you are going for Flame Legion Exotic in tokens: 1380/20 = ~70 runs @ 20 token
Flame Legion set effectively costs : 70 × 26s = 18.2g
In terns of gold, Flame Legion average per piece would then be : 18.2g/6 = 3g
However, including repair costs, Flame Legion set would then be : 18.2g + (10.5s x 18) = 20g 9s
Then the average Flame Legion piece would be : 20g 9s / 6 = 3.35gFlame Legion exotic set : 20g 9s
General exotic set : 21g
thank you for posting what i already posted on the first page -.-
You are forgetting, Earrings, Accessories, Backpacks, Amulets, Jewels, Sigils, Runes…all cost money.
@ Crucifer. Sorry i did not see your post.
Though it is good to refresh players on exactly what’s going on.
SOOO
did you fix the “Bombs collect” part?
sometimes Magg stands too far from the “original” spot (which is close to the first bomb) … that’s fine.. but if you fail the first time, it’ll be bugged. You can’t start over, can’t talk to him.
+ I don’t mind the change.. it’s still easy.. but hating on the reducing rewards
@Crucifer, I have to say it is a really well written feedback. And I agree with you.
The alternating path fix is also a joke, it won’t help make dungeon less grindy. Just create a lockdown, like several instance in a week to fix it.
And I have to disagree with the buff to Magg route. I like the idea of several routes, with alternating difficulty, so those who like more challenge can choose the other route, with balanced rewards.
Now, the dungeons are impossible for PUGs. I can imagine this game will only cater for PVP and the so-called elite guilds.
:) and the latest patch removed all guilds from guild wars oh boy
Robert,
if you patch this dungeon at least do it properly, or if you think its absusable the state its in right now and cant do it fast enough, just close the dungeon completly and dont waist players time and money on a broken dungeon which is unplayable!
The so called fix is crazy but I am pretty sure they had no choice, they have to extend the time it takes to get the gear because after a majority of people have it they will have nothing else to do.
For me personally the CoF set is the only set that looks decent so once I have that the only other reason to do dungeons is to work towards a legendary, because they sure as hell are not fun. They are nothing but another gold sink with the repair bills.
Think about it less rewards means less farm
Less farm means less gold to players
Less gold to players means players look at other ways to get gold
Other ways to get gold Gem store
Gem store convert to gold Anet makes money
and there you go, that is the break down for the reward nerf, i mean why should you make a profit running dungeons thats not right Anet should be making the profit so you gotta go buy Gems to convert to gold —-sarcasm-—
So erm… Robert, how about you create a new lvl 75 char(which this dungeon is supposedly designed for, by you of course) with avg gears, maybe rares but definitely exotic(few ppl would plurge below 80). And find yourselves a group of similar level players, and then do the dungeon like how you meant it to be done during the door buster event, I don’t think you guys can last 1min let alone hold for over 3mins
If you want to extend the time it takes for the dungeon make the mobs 1 silver rest bronze or normal and space out the spawns.
Dont do what was done.
I mean wth before you make things harder at least fix the bugs in your game. Atm Dungeons in gw2 have less polish than any f2p chinese mmo
To the dungeon designers and developers:
I suppose you understand that by having it easy(speed run) on the first place, which allowed a lot of players to acquire the armors in no time, then making it quite hard to the point normal geared people can’t do it you do give an advantage to the players that already got their armor sets?
You talk so much about balance and a shop that gives no gameplay advantage but yet you do such a mistake and ruin your own purpose. Now these players can farm even more and get even bigger advantage, economy wise too which even seems intentional to me. It’s like you wanted the players who stay online lots of hours to get this gear quickly, since you know they will be investing a lot of time in your game, so they can feel rewarded. A casual player probably wouldn’t rush and take the gear in two days.
Anyway I hope it was a mistake and you will get things better eventually. It’s in your hands to make this game a success, or ruin it.
So the only dungeon worth doing, that actually gave decent rewards, now gives less rewards but is now next to impossible to run and next to impossible to even get a group for.
Well done, where do I get my money from now? the other dungeons that 2-3 times as long but end up leaving you with less money then you went in because of the amount money it costs to repair exotic armour. Can’t believe I waited 5-6 years for this game.
I totally agree with the OP on this one.
+10
When I saw that the dungeon creator came here to explain the changes I really got excited. I felt like “hey, they really care abot what we say”.
Btu then, what I don’t really get is why coming here and trying to explain the update, and then just vanishing.
It makes me think that he didn’t really wanted to discuss the matter or simply didn’t care about what we think, just came to state some arbitrary opinion.
It’s so sad I waited so long for this game. I so hoped to be playing it for years and making new friends along the way.
Ehh screw it there is reason to level to 80 beyond being on even footing in wvw.
To me personally (haven’t read through all the comments) it seems that they are ‘nerfing’ a lot of means for players to actually gear up/get money/do whatever they want.
People who figure out a non-exploit way to get their money/karma/gear/materials/… and actually do their best to perfect this way seem to be halted at every patch. Dungeons nerfed because of lower rewards/increased difficulty, event farming being halted by lower karma, anti-bot code kicking in a bit too fast, increasing materials needed for craft (well not too much, only one I can think about is the wood logs, but it’s still an increase),… It’s limiting people who use the mechanics to the point where they just go afk for a while after doing what they like, because they get nothing for the time they put into the game. I know some things needed to be changed, but at least give us alternatives.
People were making Gold to fast. This reduced the amount of RL $$ Anet got from gemstore. THIS IS THE TRUE problem with speed runs.
dont let them lie to you and say it was too easy its always about the money. Its a F2P game they will do every thing they can to make sure you have to buy gems from them.
Just wait next patch way point teleporting will cost 5 gems or repairs will cost 10 gems. Its bound to happen my friends.
Robert Hrouda did you come from blizzard becuase it clearly seems like you have a WoW nerf mind.
you should be FIRED!!!!!
and who ever approved this “change” should be FIRED also.
People were making Gold to fast. This reduced the amount of RL $$ Anet got from gemstore. THIS IS THE TRUE problem with speed runs.
dont let them lie to you and say it was too easy its always about the money. Its a F2P game they will do every thing they can to make sure you have to buy gems from them.
Just wait next patch way point teleporting will cost 5 gems or repairs will cost 10 gems. Its bound to happen my friends.
Does it hurt your brain when you think? No ones holding a gun to your head, forcing you to play this game. Don’t want to spend real money? Don’t spend real money. Claiming that ANet is lying to you and making sure you buy gems is preposterous. I’m glad this patch came out, so it can weed out players like you.
Just face it Anet you screwed up. Dungeons are not worth doing anymore cept for maybe Arah fast path now.
Roll back the patch So we can do CoF again and get the other dungeons in line. If this continues and crafting is the most viable way for exotics a lot of people will quit because it’s BORING to farm ore and cash. CoF WAS FUN.
http://lazor-kitty-pew-pew.enjin.com/ or msg to apply.
We managed to complete this in about 40 mins I think. its still quick and relatively easy, the lava room we seemed to just have maff turn up at the end again I think some of us run to the end and then one of us went back and died and then he teleported to the end.. so that was quick. I guess this isn’t intended but we had no idea what the changes were so this is what happened.
the bomb room was the part that added extra time, but we actually just kited them around and survived with spawn running to do it in the end. we had a high dps setup problem being with the lack of protection we were very vunerable to the increase in dps and the additional elite archer as well and found that we lasted longer avoiding damage than causing it.
not sure what happened on the last boss might have been our high dps but we completed that in probably just under a minute was that made easier as it was cake origionally. I can’t see what the problem is with how it is now apart from the bomb room it was straight forward and incredibly easy.
Kyús – 80 – Guardian// All Classes Level 80
Hand of Blood [HoB]
EU – Aurora Glade
Hand of Blood [HoB]
EU – Aurora Glade
I was in agreement until I read this: “And those people who can not farm the same gear to keep up with the other players in the game because they can’t complete CoF…let alone in a timely manner.”
As well as this:
“Now you have geared groups of people spam running other dungeons and fresh 80s at a loss for what they are supposed to be doing to keep up with those people with pre-buffed CoF gear who don’t have lockouts in other instances to stop them from keep getting further ahead of the curve.”
The dungeon gear isn’t really that amazing stat wise…The only thing people missed out on was a method to farm out money that was more than likely way easier to accomplish than intended. You don’t need to “farm CoF to get gear to progress”. It’s cosmetic
People going on saying that they don’t want to mine Ore or farm money other ways to get the current TOP END gear…what were you expecting? How is farming through other means less exciting than just destroying the same dungeon path over and over.
(edited by Nemhy.5230)
Just face it Anet you screwed up. Dungeons are not worth doing anymore cept for maybe Arah fast path now.
Roll back the patch So we can do CoF again and get the other dungeons in line. If this continues and crafting is the most viable way for exotics a lot of people will quit because it’s BORING to farm ore and cash. CoF WAS FUN.
nonononono, dont say anything about Arah please, coz they will change trying to “help us” lol
Guys we talk here of CoF, but this is SAME fail for all instances. TBH all instances are sadly boring , and some are really REALLY hard and time wasting. Take arah for example, or twilight… GW2 is not game about farming , its about fun and it should be like that. Since almost all instance have same* gear , its just matter of , model. Why make instanceskitten long , hard and stupid ?
Many ppl already get frustrated by Anet inability to make WVW available to ppl – we CANT enter it unless we wait for 2h+.
So all in all with exception of COF, pre update, i was completely giving up on instance content since its to hard and boring. And now instead of making it more fun they making it impossible. Whats more , we have inability to join WVW , so what does this leave to us ? Make new char ? PVP arena ?
Mu hopes are they wont ruin this great game , we will see…
By no means it is impossible to do. The changes are done on the “Magmacyte” part, and the “kiting” part.
The NPC acts a bit different at “Magmacyte” part now. He tries to attack the mobs around, he dies (often), he glitches out, etc… I’d be fine if he was following us, and not attacking anything (as before), but changes were done to other stuff; for example, maybe he starts walking and you have to extinguish the flames or he’ll scream “fire” and go back to beginning as he steps on the fire. Aside from this and that idea, most probably this is a new bug (hopefully).
And the kiting part… Since the spawn rate is high, there is no point in trying to kill them. No LvL75 party with average gear could do that, not even mostly exotic geared parties. They increased the length by 2-3 times, and same spawn rate remains. If they slowed the enemy spawn rate to allow people DPS and kill the enemies as they spawn would’ve been a better choice. Or something else. But this just forces chain-suiciding, which further discourages people from doing CoF #2 runs. And with the reward nerf, you’ll be in debt soon due to repair costs, gaining nearly nothing from that said dungeon (aside from tokens).
I agree with the choice in making explorable dungeons hard to accomplish, they should ALL be like that. That’s what they are, Hard mode for dungeons. I agree fully with the non release of proper patch notes, but everyone makes mistakes and I’m okay with that. After all this is considerable Arena Net’s first big big time MMO. Guild wars wasn’t an mmo at least wasn’t suppose to be originally.
Now however this game isn’t enforced with the original X spec wins, so being able to put your heads together and find out a way to beat the content is actually fun to me than rolling my face on my keyboard, asking over my guilds VoIP if I’ve won yet. Idk maybe my perspective comes from Playing the traditional MMO set up far to long where it’s a grind-fest till you hate the game; so I welcome accomplishment and challenge.
This game is also rather endless in multiple different aspects, such as recently I’ve been doing more WvW, and exploring and actually grasping the Lore of the game deeper. Plenty more to the game than looking cool before the vast majority of other people.
All in all try looking at it from a devs point of view. I also haven’t done CoF yet, as I’m waiting and helping my fellow guild as a whole level up to that point.
You havent done cof yet…. so why are you here?
If Robert can post of video of him playing CoF with no problems then I wont have any argument.
You havent done cof yet…. so why are you here?
Because I’ve been keeping on how dungeons are going and plan to do them. I did pay for this game as everyone else did. Sense the devs read the forums; I’m expressing my interests and support keeping to what they said about what explorable mode is suppose to be.
I made the fireballs hurt more. Not greatly more – they’ll do about 3-4k damage to a DPS focused player, but you should have anywhere between 15k-25k HP, so there’s a bit of wiggle room for error.
I don’t mind the extra damage at all. I think though that players should also receive a boost in ways to mitigate damage through skilled play. Currently we are two dodges and spent, due to simple randomness a roll will often times lead to having to roll again out of a new fireball spot so you spend it rather quickly. I’d think that changing it from 2 endurance bars to 3-5 while keeping the regen rate the same would be a good start.
The other option I see would be to reduce overall cooldown timers on our 6 skill to allow players to heal slightly more often.
Also, just to clarify, I don’t really see these numbers you quote as being attainable with rare gear, so are Explorable mode dungeons only for those already in crafted exotics?
You havent done cof yet…. so why are you here?
Because I’ve been keeping on how dungeons are going and plan to do them. I did pay for this game as everyone else did. Sense the devs read the forums; I’m expressing my interests and support keeping to what they said about what explorable mode is suppose to be.
He was being rude, which is wrong.
He was being rude because you were being a fanboy, which was excusable because you’re ignoring the issues that the changes created on matters which don’t affect you currently and have no personal investment in currently, thus probably haven’t looked into fully to understand just how much issues there are and how buffing the difficulty and lowering the reward kills the entire point of doing the dungeons sorry “grinding” the dungeons which should never have been the case in the first place anyways
Irony…. xD
I do not mind making this route harder they were ment to be hard. However there are some ‘but’ frases.
Have you really checked if those are doable without creating the ‘must have proffession’ situation? I have already seen ‘no elementalists’ recruitment in map chat.
Have you checked if the armor statistic works properly? For example after reduction to level 55 I have around 1200 armor on my elementalist. My friend on mesmer has around 1000. Why the hell mobs deal more damage to me than to my friend?
Second thing is the difference in HP amount – elementalist has the lowest HP from all the cloth professions. Concerning the amount of damage I am able to deal I am to squishy to surive a fight. It’s mostly one hit from the silver/gold mobs in explorable mode. Sometimes I am not even able to use dodge esspecially when the crazy auto attack blocks any actions (yes such situation happen when I spam dodge to survive and it doesn’t want to work).
I also get mobs aggro a lot, ussually after using 3-4 skills. It doesn’t matter that another player delt more damage to the mob – the mobs love me more.
You say mobs deal in CoF around 4k damage why the hell in some dungeons I am one hitted to death? It’s annoying cause when mob is ranged and switches aggro to me I do not see it untill it attacks me.
Option show target’s target would be helpfull.
Some of the conditions bug, after their effect ends or is removed by players skill, the effect is still active (good example is the paralyze from spiders in Twilight Arbor).
Another thing is that mobs tend to have the stun or knock down/damage combo impossible to survive. Good example of this is fire elemental in Metrica Province – if you’ll be knocked down, you will not get up. By the way this elemental still ‘fixes’ fire fields on the bridge making ressurecting dead players impossible.
As far as I remember one of the developers (I do not recall exact name) promised to fix it.
I think everyone here who is crying endlessly for their “easy” paths through dungeons need to remember ONE thing.
Anet themsleves have explained many, many times how dungeons are for elite, well orginized, and very coordinated groups ONLY.
I read earlier someone being snarky saying "So you mean to tell me dungeons are not for cassual but skilled players?’ No, they are not. They are for Team Play only. Not pugs, if they are completable in spam mode with pugs, that means it is not balanced to suit what ArenaNet themselves have said dungeons should be.
Rewards? The rewards for dungeons are not supposed to be better than any other path of progression, everything attainable in dungeons has an equivalent attainable elsewhere. If certain paths through the dungeons are bringing in so much profit that it is the only thing players are playing then, NO, it is not balanced in ArenaNets eyes and needs to be nerfed to encourage players to not ignore the rest of the game.
I also saw someone say earlier in the thread how they are using all their combos because they have 2 fields and 2 finishers that they can use together and they do all the time!! …I have just one thing to say. Your fields are for your group to use as their fields are for you to use. your finishers will have different effects with different classes fields, go experiment. you think your water fields and aoe HoT as an elementalist is going to be enough aoe healing? Trying using a blast in a rangers healing field, see what that gets you.
Seriously, if you are not even willing to learn the game and it’s mechanics quit crying about not being able to beat anything. You are not playing your class only, you are playing your classess abilities with the abilities of the classess around you.
There is no such thing as a “Kiting event” Figure out the right way, or give up. Don’t come here thinking you and you only know the right way when people tell you plain and simple that it is the wrong way.
Threaten to go back to WoW, see how many care. If you want your easy mode aoe mashface spam zergfest dungeons and 1 single path to progression you go right ahead, do not demand Arenanet become Blizzard as blizzard is a pile of rotten dog kitten and will remain so until they die a fiery death. If you want your game like WoW, then for the love of all that is holy please go back to it.
(edited by Efaicia.3672)
Are you serious Guen? I am an elementalist and consistantly the one reviving downed group mates. I rarely get downed, let alone die. I have more HP in my crap gear than my husbands exotic geared gaurdian o.O more hp than the necro and mesmer I play with. maybe you need to rethink the stats on your gear if your hp is so low? Glass cannon builds are horrid….horrid, and is probably the entire reason people around you have jsut stopped inviting ‘elementalists’
As an elementalist you can rely on dodge 2x in a row. After that you have reflects, blinds, shields even an ability to eliminate all projectiles. How are you still dying?
(edited by Efaicia.3672)
Flame Legion exotic set : 20g 9s
General exotic set : 21g
you can not value cosmetic armor in money, since looks are subjective.
another thing is you forget the rune. people going for the look of the armor don’t necessarily need a rune of the baelfire in every piece (so the cost to replace that rune comes on top).
I still don’t know why dungeon armor (the prestige armor of gw2) has upgrades already set, when gw1 had none. don’t forget, said runes are probably calculated into the token cost, so removing them and selling the armor as is – without upgrades – would also make them cheaper. plus a certain percentage of players will exchange them anyway.
of course you can always argue that the more people are forced to spend money the more it hurts thus buying gems becomes more attractive. or black lion salvage kits to get said upgrades.
what they should do:
- remove the runes from every dungeon armor (and maybe orr)
- slash prices accordingly (players get their stuff sooner, it feels less of grind – isn’t that the goal?)
- sell the runes separately from the same vendors (added incentive for people to run the dungeons if they just want the runes – haven’t checked if a crafter can craft the same runes as in the armor, that shouldn’t overlap imho, but debatable)
- this offers an additional choice, and choice is always good!
there, suddenly the dungeon armor is a sidegrade only; some might say: “oh noes, people won’t run dungeon then!” – eff that, plenty of people dumped loadsa money into prestige armor in gw1. it was half the endgame and worked with perfectly without the need to resort to 2004 grind mechanics (join the mmo revolution my behind) to keep people playing and buying gems.
because right now their whole reward mechanic is a mess. I’m sure there’s a concept behind it somewhere (I hope), but if it’s only to push people to buy gems, it’s a failed concept (it probably does work financially; like d3 did for blizzard).
Anet themsleves have explained many, many times how dungeons are for elite, well orginized, and very coordinated groups ONLY.
that might work on paper. because in the end a.net is after the gem purchases – and who do you think buys them? the elite that grinds their armor, or the casuals (no offense) who want an easy way out?
they also sold gw2 as an mmo without grind, which brought a LOT of people in.
what people fail to realize: you will always have grind in an mmo.
what a.net failed to realize: if you sell your game as an mmo there are certain expectations associated with it (or they did, given the blog posts and trailers that have nothing to do with the final game)
a lot of said people that were attracted to gw2 are from a post-wow generation, they EXPECT dungeon runs for their armor. getting slapped in the face “no, this is not for you – you better farm your stuff elsewhere, but beware of the anti-farm mechanic and the diminishing returns!” will hardly put them in the mood to keep playing.
also if you want to gate content to keep people playing in a mmo you have two choices:
- gate it by time (lockouts, grinds, the works)
- gate it by challenge
using both at the same time majorly reduces the number of said people doing content and chasing the carrot. and as mentioned above, they WANT people to play, the longer the better because the more and longer people play the probability of gem purchases rises. just because there’s no sub doesn’t mean they aren’t after your money.
don’t get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with difficult content, quite the contrary, and I always said if you provide a challenge people will rise to it.
but I expect that content and everything revolving around it to be properly done.
(edited by Gray.9650)
agree with OP on this topic
Anet themsleves have explained many, many times how dungeons are for elite, well orginized, and very coordinated groups ONLY.
that might work on paper. because in the end a.net is after the gem purchases – and who do you think buys them? the elite that grinds their armor, or the casuals (no offense) who want an easy way out?
they also sold gw2 as an mmo without grind, which brought a LOT of people in.
what people fail to realize: you will always have grind in an mmo.
what a.net failed to realize: if you sell your game as an mmo there are certain expectations associated with it (or they did, given the blog posts and trailers that have nothing to do with the final game)
a lot of said people that were attracted to gw2 are from a post-wow generation, they EXPECT dungeon runs for their armor. getting slapped in the face “no, this is not for you – you better farm your stuff elsewhere, but beware of the anti-farm mechanic and the diminishing returns!” will hardly put them in the mood to keep playing.
also if you want to gate content to keep people playing in a mmo you have two choices:
- gate it by time (lockouts, grinds, the works)
- gate it by challenge
using both at the same time majorly reduces the number of said people doing content and chasing the carrot. and as mentioned above, they WANT people to play, the longer the better because the more and longer people play the probability of gem purchases rises. just because there’s no sub doesn’t mean they aren’t after your money.don’t get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with difficult content, quite the contrary, and I always said if you provide a challenge people will rise to it.
but I expect that content and everything revolving around it to be properly done.
So you are trying to say they have no choice if they want to keep players, they MUST be and do things like WoW and the hundreds of failed games who also tried to emulate it? Yes, lets do that!!
How about no, lets let the genre FINALY TRY to evolve. There are plenty of games that offer that playstyle. I am not in them because I am bored TO DEATH with that system and am ready for something different. I will support Anet as they try to take this genre past the “WoW generation” by buying gems, even if I have ziltch to spend them on. (although I am positive I will find something)
Doing the same dungeon 100 times for a look and incurring all travel and repair costs is hardly evolving or evolutionary. 1 Ticket to Korea please, seems to be where Darwin has the Beagle docked.
Just face it Anet you screwed up. Dungeons are not worth doing anymore cept for maybe Arah fast path now.
Roll back the patch So we can do CoF again and get the other dungeons in line. If this continues and crafting is the most viable way for exotics a lot of people will quit because it’s BORING to farm ore and cash. CoF WAS FUN.
nonononono, dont say anything about Arah please, coz they will change trying to “help us” lol
Hehe i’m doing Arah speed run now instead of CoF. I got the CoF set and just wanted to continue doing it because of the good money and exp but they completly ruined dungeons now. CoF was my pve set and was gonna farm Arah anyways after for my pvp set as it has toughness.
Don’t worry it won’t be long before they try to “help” us in Arah speedruns too and then there is absolutely no reason to do any dungeons anymore.
I Find it kinda strange this dungeon path as I would think Anet would want players to run the content they made and not drive more people away from it, plus ruin the player bases economy on top of that.
http://lazor-kitty-pew-pew.enjin.com/ or msg to apply.
Doing the same dungeon 100 times for a look and incurring all travel and repair costs is hardly evolving or evolutionary. 1 Ticket to Korea please, seems to be where Darwin has the Beagle docked.
You’re right of course, but when they try to implement a nerf to “players doing dungeons 100’s of times for a look” they get kittened at and cried to because “that’s the only dungeon worth doing”
How can you people seriously say with 1 breath “yeah right you’re so different, You’re not different! You’re like every other game out there” to Arenanet and in the very next breath kitten and whine about how they made your favorite farm spot obsolete?
Hey folks, I’ve been reading this thread for a bit and figured I’d come weigh in on things. I built this dungeon, and fixed the problem, so I’m going to come at you from the designer perspective on things to try and illuminate why I did what I did, and what exactly I did. It wasn’t made clear, and I apologize for that.
The main thing I am seeing, is that people are upset that I took away their super profitable low risk, fast, token grind. I did not go into this thinking everyone would be happy with my changes – I knew I would be upsetting people because I was taking away a super easy speed-run money printer.
Good, the dungeon was far too easy, however you’re focusing on the whining (which is going to be present regardless) and not on the constructive feedback. Ignore whiners, but don’t dismiss legitimate complaints.
I took it away for a few reasons – chief among them being what I feel is taking advantage of a couple bugs found in the same chain, and our leashing/aggro system. I played with groups who did this, and watched you-tube clips of what was going on.
You made the right choice, but you also completely neglected to actually balance certain portions for the proper method of completing them.
The problems I identified with the speed run aspect of this are as follows:
1. You just need 1 person to get to the magmacyte across the magma field. This will cause an invulnerable Magg to run across the entire field through mobs and progress the dungeon. Then this person teleports back.1. I made it so that Magg has to get to the other side of the Magma field and close to the magmacyte – not just a player. Magg not taking aggro from nearby enemies was a big reason for this issue to be resolved. By giving him aggro, and forcing you to escort him to the ending, I fixed what I considered to be a bug/exploit that I introduced through poor planning.
I am super happy with this change. That part felt cheesy and was obviously not intended. Glad that its fixed.
2. Instead of fighting the enemies in a timed event at he door buster, you just circle strafe them or leash aggro them to “kill the clock” since it was only a 100 second timer on the event.
2. I extended the time from 100 seconds to 200 seconds at the Door Buster event. I intended for you to fight those guys, not circle strafe them and aggro leash chain them. I also added 1 additional mob to the encounter at the very middle (a bow dude) to account for you now having twice the time to defeat the waves that come in.
Now here’s my concern. Fixing the encounter is a good thing. If we need to DPS the targets, good. That’s what it always felt like we should be doing. However, while the timer is now doubled, mobs still spawn at an obscenely fast rate. The first 3 mobs spawn and not even one can be killed by the time the 4th spawns. To add to that, the mobs hit ludicrously hard. The spawn rate needs to be significantly slowed and the damage toned down.
Its not a problem with the concept of the event, but the tuning is not tight… its disgustingly overtuned. You looked at what people were doing, but not why. People were not kiting because the timer was short (thought that was a contribution), they were kiting because that was the only option. It was not possible to kill the mobs because they simply destroy and overwhelm you. Doubling the timer and spawning more mobs does not change this.
Honestly, the change reeks of a knee-jerk reaction to people “exploiting” content that you designed. There was quite clearly no testing done here as it is blindingly obvious that the encounter is far too overtuned, and if you believe differently then I would love to see a video or some other evidence of the fight being completed “the correct way” by the developers or whatever testing team decided the fight was acceptable to go live.
3. Final Boss encounter isn’t threatening.
3. I made the fireballs hurt more. Not greatly more – they’ll do about 3-4k damage to a DPS focused player, but you should have anywhere between 15k-25k HP, so there’s a bit of wiggle room for error.
To tell the truth this fight still feels like a joke. At no point before or after the change did I feel at all threatened. You can basically run around casually and the encounter can last indefinitely because nothing will actually attack you.
??
Are you serious Guen? I am an elementalist and consistantly the one reviving downed group mates. I rarely get downed, let alone die. I have more HP in my crap gear than my husbands exotic geared gaurdian o.O more hp than the necro and mesmer I play with. maybe you need to rethink the stats on your gear if your hp is so low? Glass cannon builds are horrid….horrid, and is probably the entire reason people around you have jsut stopped inviting ‘elementalists’
As an elementalist you can rely on dodge 2x in a row. After that you have reflects, blinds, shields even an ability to eliminate all projectiles. How are you still dying?
I am not glass cannon, I have the armor/jewlery version with vitality and max traits in toughness (also for condition damage), maybe not complete 100% set cause I’m still gathering materials for craft. I also plan to get full toughness set as second. The point is how the hell mobs hit me harder than mesmer with lower armor value than me (no vulnerability was applied on me). Even if I invest 30 points in vitality traits I will still have lower HP than my mesmer friends. I know I can use shields and dodges that is not the point. I do not mean to blame developers for my lack of attention but there are situations where some things do not trigger (like dodge for example) or character freezes not willing to move (not a lag, cause my ping is fine), or there’s not enough time to react – like to situation I described with ranged mob switching aggro.
Besides in the case of CoF runs I do not understand why people did not want to take elementalists there cause I was able to quite efficiently help in controlling mobs (chill, cripple) and thanks to lava font the last crystal was taken down much faster than without elementalist in team.
Are you serious Guen? I am an elementalist and consistantly the one reviving downed group mates. I rarely get downed, let alone die. I have more HP in my crap gear than my husbands exotic geared gaurdian o.O more hp than the necro and mesmer I play with. maybe you need to rethink the stats on your gear if your hp is so low? Glass cannon builds are horrid….horrid, and is probably the entire reason people around you have jsut stopped inviting ‘elementalists’
As an elementalist you can rely on dodge 2x in a row. After that you have reflects, blinds, shields even an ability to eliminate all projectiles. How are you still dying?
I am not glass cannon, I have the armor/jewlery version with vitality and max traits in toughness (also for condition damage), maybe not complete 100% set cause I’m still gathering materials for craft. I also plan to get full toughness set as second. The point is how the hell mobs hit me harder than mesmer with lower armor value than me (no vulnerability was applied on me). Even if I invest 30 points in vitality traits I will still have lower HP than my mesmer friends. I know I can use shields and dodges that is not the point. I do not mean to blame developers for my lack of attention but there are situations where some things do not trigger (like dodge for example) or character freezes not willing to move (not a lag, cause my ping is fine), or there’s not enough time to react – like to situation I described with ranged mob switching aggro.
Besides in the case of CoF runs I do not understand why people did not want to take elementalists there cause I was able to quite efficiently help in controlling mobs (chill, cripple) and thanks to lava font the last crystal was taken down much faster than without elementalist in team.
Your character freezes and is not willing to move when you are out of vitality. This is when you need to use a shield, a reflect, stone skin, or blinds.
Seems the difference between me and you is a staff. I have all of those available to me while never leaning heavily on staff, I switch weapons with nearly every fight.