Guild Wars 2

It was doable before (And I’d run it successfully with a party of lvl 35-40s who were alts of more experienced players just for fun) and it’s still doable now. The dungeon mechanics haven’t changed so significantly that they’ll punish lvl 35s any more than they did before.

Everyone who’s saying otherwise has just been basically spoiled by exploits and shortcuts that allow you to basically do zero work for rewards. Doesn’t take much brain to Hundred Blades/Frost Bow 4 graveling burrows, but GOD FORBID someone tell you to kite gravelings through fire, because the difficulty on that…man…it’s so hard to just dodgeroll through the fire if you have gravelings chasing you.

Seriously guys. Doable before, doable now. STOP WHINING AND GIVING THE DEVS UNNECESSARY JUNK TO FILTER THROUGH WHEN THERE ARE REAL ISSUES TO FIX, like Grast not spawning his bubble properly, or having long cast times on his melee attacks.

EDIT: TO PROVE THIS POINT since the people below are demanding evidence, I’d like to put out a call for experienced players with alts around level 35-39 to come do a run with me. I’d preferably like someone to fraps this since my computer is abit outdated and can’t handle video recording+GW2 at the same time, but I feel like it’s time to show people that it IS doable and that there is NOTHING “impossible” about this dungeon at level 35.

Maestro.5376:

It was doable before (And I’d run it successfully with a party of lvl 35-40s who were alts of more experienced players just for fun) and it’s still doable now. The dungeon mechanics haven’t changed so significantly that they’ll punish lvl 35s any more than they did before.

Everyone who’s saying otherwise has just been basically spoiled by exploits and shortcuts that allow you to basically do zero work for rewards. Doesn’t take much brain to Hundred Blades/Frost Bow 4 graveling burrows, but GOD FORBID someone tell you to kite gravelings through fire, because the difficulty on that…man…it’s so hard to just dodgeroll through the fire if you have gravelings chasing you.

Seriously guys. Doable before, doable now. STOP WHINING AND GIVING THE DEVS UNNECESSARY JUNK TO FILTER THROUGH WHEN THERE ARE REAL ISSUES TO FIX, like Grast not spawning his bubble properly, or having long cast times on his melee attacks.

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Please provide video of all toons on lvl 35, appropiate gear. THEN say it is doable.

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

It was doable before (And I’d run it successfully with a party of lvl 35-40s who were alts of more experienced players just for fun) and it’s still doable now. The dungeon mechanics haven’t changed so significantly that they’ll punish lvl 35s any more than they did before.

Everyone who’s saying otherwise has just been basically spoiled by exploits and shortcuts that allow you to basically do zero work for rewards. Doesn’t take much brain to Hundred Blades/Frost Bow 4 graveling burrows, but GOD FORBID someone tell you to kite gravelings through fire, because the difficulty on that…man…it’s so hard to just dodgeroll through the fire if you have gravelings chasing you.

Seriously guys. Doable before, doable now. STOP WHINING AND GIVING THE DEVS UNNECESSARY JUNK TO FILTER THROUGH WHEN THERE ARE REAL ISSUES TO FIX, like Grast not spawning his bubble properly, or having long cast times on his melee attacks.

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I’ve run all 3 paths at least twice each (including Kohler) post-patch, and the difficulty bottleneck for low-level groups would still have been a DPS cap with dealing with timed burrows, which can be handled with proper amounts of focused sustained damage on the burrows.

And how is having low-level alts of high level people invalidating? There’s no difference in gear, there’s only a difference in knowledge of the game mechanics. And guess what? Anet has said AGAIN and AGAIN that Ex dungeons, EVEN the low-level ones, are meant for groups of ORGANIZED players who KNOW the game. So I see nothing wrong with it.

Aden Celeste.3650:

Please provide video of all toons on lvl 35, appropiate gear. THEN say it is doable.

New project: who wants to do this with me?

To ensure a smooth run, you must be fairly familiar with your class.

I have a lvl 30 ranger I can power up to lvl 35 for this, and I know her moves fairly well.

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

I also apologize for assuming that people have the two brain cells to rub together to make connections.

In fact, I’m so apologetic that I’ve already put out the call for people with alts to help me make a video so all those whiners out there that can’t bother to get their kitten together can finally give it a rest.

Now the real question is, did I actually type kitten up there?

Please post a video of doing AC with lvl 35 players in blue gear, not greens or yellows, blues.

Then I might CARE about what you have to say.

Calae.1738:

Please post a video of doing AC with lvl 35 players in blue gear, not greens or yellows, blues.

Then I might CARE about what you have to say.

Why blues? Players at level 35 have the ability to craft green and yellow gear. Why are you purposely gimping your party?

Maestro.5376:

Calae.1738:

Please post a video of doing AC with lvl 35 players in blue gear, not greens or yellows, blues.

Then I might CARE about what you have to say.

Why blues? Players at level 35 have the ability to craft green and yellow gear. Why are you purposely gimping your party?

Because level 35 players wont have full rare sets when they do a dungeon for the second time?

Zenyatoo.4059:

Maestro.5376:

Calae.1738:

Please post a video of doing AC with lvl 35 players in blue gear, not greens or yellows, blues.

Then I might CARE about what you have to say.

Why blues? Players at level 35 have the ability to craft green and yellow gear. Why are you purposely gimping your party?

Because level 35 players wont have full rare sets when they do a dungeon for the second time?

What? My first character was decked out in lvl 35 rare Ravaging gear when he hit 35. Maybe people are just not as crafthappy as I am?

They’ll at LEAST have Masterworks, which can be obtained from Karma vendors or bought on the cheap from the Marketplace…

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

No, you should apologize to everyone for your blatantly dishonest post and your continued dishonesty.

How would you know that “nothing’s been changeds significantly” if you admit yourself you haven’t done it with that setup post patch especially since the patch notes and the reality is completely contrary to what you say?

You can’t, and you are making conclusions based on no evidence yet again.

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

No, you should apologize to everyone for your blatantly dishonest post and your continued dishonesty.

How would you know that “nothing’s been changeds significantly” if you admit yourself you haven’t done it with that setup post patch especially since the patch notes and the reality is completely contrary to what you say?

You can’t, and you are making conclusions based on no evidence yet again.

Um, because with a party of mixed levels (40-80), the run wasn’t a problem for any of the members post-patch? Because I have a brain and can extrapolate numbers?

Because the changes were mainly to final boss fights and silver-border Gravelings (and the Spider Queen but seriously, she didn’t change THAT much), and the final boss fights have now all been changed to gimmick fights that don’t rely on stats for you to win?

Again…choke points are still at the encounters that were unchanged, e.g. protecting Hodgins or the Essence Collectors.

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

No, you should apologize to everyone for your blatantly dishonest post and your continued dishonesty.

How would you know that “nothing’s been changeds significantly” if you admit yourself you haven’t done it with that setup post patch especially since the patch notes and the reality is completely contrary to what you say?

You can’t, and you are making conclusions based on no evidence yet again.

Um, because with a party of mixed levels (40-80), the run wasn’t a problem for any of the members post-patch? Because I have a brain and can extrapolate numbers?

That’s NOT evidence.

You are just basing your conclusion on something you are making up in your mind, not real testing.

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

No, you should apologize to everyone for your blatantly dishonest post and your continued dishonesty.

How would you know that “nothing’s been changeds significantly” if you admit yourself you haven’t done it with that setup post patch especially since the patch notes and the reality is completely contrary to what you say?

You can’t, and you are making conclusions based on no evidence yet again.

Um, because with a party of mixed levels (40-80), the run wasn’t a problem for any of the members post-patch? Because I have a brain and can extrapolate numbers?

That’s NOT evidence.

You are just basing your conclusion on something you are making up in your mind, not real testing.

We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

Maestro.5376:

…
We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

http://www.amazon.com/Conjectures-Refutations-Scientific-Knowledge-Routledge/dp/0415285941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362507458&sr=8-1&keywords=Conjecture+refutation

The book is cheaper than the game and it will definitely help you to beat Death…

SkyChef.5432:

Maestro.5376:

…
We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

http://www.amazon.com/Conjectures-Refutations-Scientific-Knowledge-Routledge/dp/0415285941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362507458&sr=8-1&keywords=Conjecture+refutation

The book is cheaper than the game and it will definitely help you to beat Death…

There’s no need to beat someone who nobody gives credit to anyways. But it’s fun to watch him try to work his way around my counters.

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

No, you should apologize to everyone for your blatantly dishonest post and your continued dishonesty.

How would you know that “nothing’s been changeds significantly” if you admit yourself you haven’t done it with that setup post patch especially since the patch notes and the reality is completely contrary to what you say?

You can’t, and you are making conclusions based on no evidence yet again.

Um, because with a party of mixed levels (40-80), the run wasn’t a problem for any of the members post-patch? Because I have a brain and can extrapolate numbers?

That’s NOT evidence.

You are just basing your conclusion on something you are making up in your mind, not real testing.

We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

Wrong. You must demonstrate that it is true with evidence since you are making a positive claim that something exists.

Just because you don’t have the data to prove something one way or the other doesn’t mean YOU JUMP to conclusions. It means the answer is you don’t know.

But in your case it’s not a matter of you not knowing. It’s a matter of dishonesty in presenting your argument.

Maestro.5376:

SkyChef.5432:

Maestro.5376:

…
We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

http://www.amazon.com/Conjectures-Refutations-Scientific-Knowledge-Routledge/dp/0415285941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362507458&sr=8-1&keywords=Conjecture+refutation

The book is cheaper than the game and it will definitely help you to beat Death…

There’s no need to beat someone who nobody gives credit to anyways. But it’s fun to watch him try to work his way around my counters.

What you call “counters” is more like squirming around questions and avoiding facts.

Most people are against you. You’ve already been called out for your lying.

Not every 35 who wants to see a dungeon will have full rares, or even full greens. I would bet a lot of money that 90% of people level 35 have almost full blues, and some of them are probably way under level as well.

Also, as I’ve said in another post, this is the FIRST dungeon. Don’t sit here and call for “experienced” players because this is an introduction dungeon. If Anet thinks that all explorable paths should be for fully geared lvl 80 organized teams, then A ) that’s the issue at hand and B ) against the whole feel of how GW2 is for casuals.

Hardcore players have Fractals, why should Anet go back and redesign dungeons to suit them for a hardcore feel. You can change mechanics to make them easier without making them boring.

Maestro.5376:

We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

In your OP you are trying to prove something is possible. In your example you are trying to prove something isn’t real. To prove something possible, it takes 1 piece of evidence. To prove something doesn’t exist, takes an infinite amount of evidence.

You talk about extrapolating numbers like you know what that means. I guarantee I can jump 10 feet high because one time before I got new shoes I jumped 3 feet high. You don’t believe me? It’s not my fault you can’t extrapolate.

Ethics.4519:

Maestro.5376:

We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

In your OP you are trying to prove something is possible. In your example you are trying to prove something isn’t real. To prove something possible, it takes 1 piece of evidence. To prove something doesn’t exist, takes an infinite amount of evidence.

You talk about extrapolating numbers like you know what that means. I guarantee I can jump 10 feet high because one time before I got new shoes I jumped 3 feet high. You don’t believe me? It’s not my fault you can’t extrapolate.

Let me try to explain this in a way you will understand.

Prepatch:
At level 80 in AC Ex, Mob A does X1 Damage.
At level 35 in AC Ex, Mob A does Y1 Damage.

(Normalizing for approximate Toughness values)

Post patch:
At level 80 in AC Ex, Mob A does X2 Damage.

Assuming they haven’t changed damage scaling which is a fair assumption, we can thus:

At level 35 in AC Ex, Mob A does Y2 Damage.

It’s not that hard to do a bit of basic algebra -_-.

Maestro.5376:

Ethics.4519:

Maestro.5376:

We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

In your OP you are trying to prove something is possible. In your example you are trying to prove something isn’t real. To prove something possible, it takes 1 piece of evidence. To prove something doesn’t exist, takes an infinite amount of evidence.

You talk about extrapolating numbers like you know what that means. I guarantee I can jump 10 feet high because one time before I got new shoes I jumped 3 feet high. You don’t believe me? It’s not my fault you can’t extrapolate.

Let me try to explain this in a way you will understand.

Prepatch:
At level 80 in AC Ex, Mob A does X1 Damage.
At level 35 in AC Ex, Mob A does Y1 Damage.

(Normalizing for approximate Toughness values)

Post patch:
At level 80 in AC Ex, Mob A does X2 Damage.

Assuming they haven’t changed damage scaling which is a fair assumption, we can thus:

At level 35 in AC Ex, Mob A does Y2 Damage.

It’s not that hard to do a bit of basic algebra -_-.

You couldn’t be further from the truth. Also, pure damage has little to do with how hard a dungeon is.

I can’t believe you don’t understand how bad that is. Especially since you have absolutely no proof of what “Y2” is and you’re making a flat out guess on a really kittenumption.

Maestro.5376:

Ethics.4519:

Maestro.5376:

We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

In your OP you are trying to prove something is possible. In your example you are trying to prove something isn’t real. To prove something possible, it takes 1 piece of evidence. To prove something doesn’t exist, takes an infinite amount of evidence.

You talk about extrapolating numbers like you know what that means. I guarantee I can jump 10 feet high because one time before I got new shoes I jumped 3 feet high. You don’t believe me? It’s not my fault you can’t extrapolate.

Let me try to explain this in a way you will understand.

Prepatch:
At level 80 in AC Ex, Mob A does X1 Damage.
At level 35 in AC Ex, Mob A does Y1 Damage.

(Normalizing for approximate Toughness values)

Post patch:
At level 80 in AC Ex, Mob A does X2 Damage.

Assuming they haven’t changed damage scaling which is a fair assumption, we can thus:

At level 35 in AC Ex, Mob A does Y2 Damage.

It’s not that hard to do a bit of basic algebra -_-.

You are only embarassing yourself further with this nonsense.

If it’s doable as you’ve said, then providing proof should be simple. You can easily record a demo video of it happening.

DeathPanel.8362:

You are only embarassing yourself further with this nonsense.

If it’s doable as you’ve said, then providing proof should be simple. You can easily record a demo video of it happening.

Bahahaha, thank you. My thoughts exactly. I loved “Normalizing for approximate toughness values”

Ethics.4519:

DeathPanel.8362:

You are only embarassing yourself further with this nonsense.

If it’s doable as you’ve said, then providing proof should be simple. You can easily record a demo video of it happening.

Bahahaha, thank you. My thoughts exactly. I loved “Normalizing for approximate toughness values”

There are damage formulas online on the Wiki for Damage Calculations for Toughness, in case you haven’t noticed. That statement was just tossed in there so you couldn’t call bullkitten and say “WAO DAMAGE TESTS WITH LVL 35 WARRIOR AND LVL 80 ELE.”

Ethics.4519:

DeathPanel.8362:

You are only embarassing yourself further with this nonsense.

If it’s doable as you’ve said, then providing proof should be simple. You can easily record a demo video of it happening.

Bahahaha, thank you. My thoughts exactly. I loved “Normalizing for approximate toughness values”

He’d do well writing pseudo technical jargon for future star trek movie scripts.

A party full of people new to the game aren’t going to finish this without a guide or an entire day to spare. Doubt they’d get past the spiders at the start.

Experienced people are more likely to bring yellow cultural armor, various weapons and modify traits and utilities per encounter. And know where to stand and to dodge.

But Anet said (paraphrasing) that they design dungeons to be hard, not for everyone to roll through. They might redesign the other dungeons later to make them harder as well. I like the changes; they’ve given all bosses more damage and abilities and reduced their health. There are more dungeons that could do with a change like that. E.g. HotW bosses and grenth in Arah.

Gummi.4310:

They might redesign the other dungeons later to make them harder as well.

They’ve already said that AC is just the beginning.

I don’t believe a group of 35s could even come close to doing this dungeon. The last boss in path ones adds would destroy them. I have no problem that you believe differently, my problem with your statement is that it is easy to prove. Just go do it and come back with a video. Truth be told this place has become a waste of time given the risk/reward ratio.

Hillaan.6904:

I don’t believe a group of 35s could even come close to doing this dungeon. The last boss in path ones adds would destroy them. I have no problem that you believe differently, my problem with your statement is that it is easy to prove. Just go do it and come back with a video. Truth be told this place has become a waste of time given the risk/reward ratio.

The adds can be lured into the flame circles to basically insta-kill them.

AC isn’t even doable with lvl 80, not to mention 35. Stop embarassing yourself and just admit you’re blatantly lying. Community can’t be wrong.

haviz.1340:

AC isn’t even doable with lvl 80, not to mention 35. Stop embarassing yourself and just admit you’re blatantly lying. Community can’t be wrong.

I swear this is sarcasm and I love you because of it.

Thank you

/15chars

Maestro.5376:

…lots of talking without any facts…

since you obviously didn’t do ac post patch, here are a few things you would’ve noticed have changed:

• gravelings knockdown now
• lots of gravelings spawn in different encounters (especially hodgins 5 burrows and tzarks 15 burrows)
• spider queen aoe is large enough to require a dodge to get out, walking is not enough, you will get damaged (big time, compared to before)
• troll now fears people off the ledge
• path 3 colossus can only sometimes be interrupted
• seismic activity can’t be evaded by walking out of the red circles, as there are no safespots anymore
• grast doesn’t put up the shield always (more like. never)

and so on. now what can and can’t a lvl 35 do:

• most new players will have blue/green gear up to 15 levels below their current level. and thats generous.
• lack of skillpoints, only a few skills have been unlocked. not enough points to spare to unlock a skill they didn’t know they had to have for this dungeon (stability, stunbreakers, condi removal etc)
• lack of dodges – depending on class, you won’t be at a level to get vigour up all the time or more dodges in general
• stability: some classes can only get stability at lvl 60 (ie necro)
• stunbreakers: some classes only have 1-2 long cooldown stunbreakers and need stability (again, necro)

it would really help your argument, if you actually played the new AC paths and knew how the encounters went. your claim the key mechanics (burrows etc) haven’t noticably changed alone shows you never went there, as the obvious change in spawns would have been noticable very clearly (for example, no scavengers out of path 1’s south-east burrow anymore, but knockdown-gravelings out of every other burrow).

after you’ve played it a few times, try it with lowlvl alts. then try to imagine, if you can, how this would feel for a new player doing his first dungeon. the instagibbing if you don’t dodge etc gives them very little time to learn the encounters. we’ve had time to learn and now only have to adapt, and still many find it extremely hard.

you’re opinion is very clear, you proclaim it loudly, but you haven’t brought any sustainable argument yet, only a few conjured half-truths. please try to stick to the truth and if you’re not that used to arguing, just let a video of you and your buddies (not even a pug), all on lvl 35, speak for itself.

just to be clear: I don’t think its impossible for a group of lvl 35 to finish path 1 and probably 2. three depends on grast bugging or not. I do, however, think its impossible for a pug of lvl 35 doing their first dungeon, no matter if these players are actually rather good with their class. good meaning, if those same players were lvl 75 and went to CoF, they could easily beat path 1 and 2 after a few tries – not good as in soloing lupus, I really think that being a requirement for any dungeon would narrow down the playerbase unnecessarily.

Oranisagu.3706:

Maestro.5376:

…lots of talking without any facts…

since you obviously didn’t do ac post patch,

>I stopped reading there, since I made it clear I have done all three paths of AC post patch.

They can be kited into the flames if you can keep from being perma knocked down. But once again you are claiming this about lvel 35s who still have very few skills. Prove it and come back and that will shut us all up.

Oranisagu.3706:

Snip

Actually, let me be serious and address you. My apologies for my curtness before. I’m not going to hide behind an edit function.

Yes, gravelings knock down now, but they have replaced Scavengers in several spawns.

I am well aware of the difficulty this may pose to Hodgins’ and Tzark’s paths, but I feel like the telegraph for the pounce is quite clear and is easily avoidable. You can actually juke it by strafing rapidly in the right way.

The spider queen’s AoE might do a fair amount of damage, but it’s pretty easy to see coming, since she alternates this with her web attack. Rolling once should get you out of the AoE, and then you have the entirety of the next web attack to recharge your endurance.

The issues with the Troll: I can’t really comment on this since the groups I’ve been in have made sure to get him to places where it’s difficult for him to incapacitate party members with terrain alone.

The issues with Collosus: I’m pretty sure these are bugs, and there’s actually 1 blind spot you can stand in that makes sure the rocks never fall on you even if Grast fails to get his shield up.

It’s not unreasonable to ask people to gear for their level. After all, downscaling in low-level areas punishes this severely since it scales by a factor not by a set normalized stat set. Even blues are very reasonable to acquire, and Anet DID state that this dungeon was meant for properly-geared, coordinated players.

Skill points: I had enough skill points on my Necromancer to unlock her first elite and most utilities by the time she was 35. I had basically done all of my leveling with skill points, though, so that’s probably not normal.

I’ve never had much use for Stability; my Mesmer still doesn’t have any of it. However, bringing multiple stunbreakers might help you out here. Again, knowing the encounters and speccing properly will help you here. And the classes without Stability might have mechanics that allow them to tank some amount of damage before they start hitting danger zones (e.g. Necro’s death shroud that can be activated while knocked down, and then instant fear on skill 3 that can be used to take enemies away until you can get back up).

I’m not saying it won’t be HARD. I’m saying it’s POSSIBLE. And Difficult and Possible are what Arenanet are aiming for with these dungeons. The first time I did AC Ex during the beta with the Spider queen throwing poison pools that ticked for 3k every half a second, I didn’t think “This is impossible.” I thought “I must play better, or there’s a gimmic I’m missing. Either way, I have to get better somehow.”

This might be frustrating, but keep in mind that Arenanet has stated that they have plans to raise the difficulty of the dungeons to a similar level to AC Ex, so using CoF 1 and 2, probably some of the easiest runs in the game up to date, are probably not good examples.

What I expect a decent group to do when faced with AC EX: Wipe to the Spider Queen (Maybe if they don’t have a good concept on condition removal/stunbreakers yet, although they really should), bring stun break/condition removals, continue on to Kohler, maybe wipe once before they figure out his pull+spin2win mechanic, continue on, maybe wipe to unexpected graveling knockdowns and bring stunbreakers the next time around, get to the boss with no problems, perhaps wipe once while figuring out the mechanic, then completing it successfully. That’s what, 4 wipes total?

Have we really grown so complacent as to demand flawless runs the first time? Aren’t these dungeons supposed to be difficult, to test our mettle as players, to push us to our limits?

Do you find AC even hard Maestro?

It’s horrible experience now, pre-nerf everyone could get some fun. Now? Impossible. It’s like anet doesn’t want us to have fun.

laokoko.7403:

Do you find AC even hard Maestro?

I don’t know if this was sarcasm (do you even lift? type question) so I’ll answer seriously. Currently on my level 80 Mesmer, I do not find it hard. I ran it pre-patch with a level 35 Necro and did not find it hard either (we did Howling King’s Path). Post-patch with a lvl 35…I suppose this video will see.

haviz.1340:

It’s horrible experience now, pre-nerf everyone could get some fun. Now? Impossible. It’s like anet doesn’t want us to have fun.

I was going to reply, but then I saw your name and then I lol’ed.

Seriously people, dungeons aren’t the only place for people to have fun XD.

Maestro.5376:

laokoko.7403:

Do you find AC even hard Maestro?

I don’t know if this was sarcasm (do you even lift? type question) so I’ll answer seriously. Currently on my level 80 Mesmer, I do not find it hard. I ran it pre-patch with a level 35 Necro and did not find it hard either (we did Howling King’s Path). Post-patch with a lvl 35…I suppose this video will see.

so Anet designed a dungeon which is too hard for pug and too easy for coordinate group. So who the hack is Anet design the dungeon for.

laokoko.7403:

Maestro.5376:

laokoko.7403:

Do you find AC even hard Maestro?

I don’t know if this was sarcasm (do you even lift? type question) so I’ll answer seriously. Currently on my level 80 Mesmer, I do not find it hard. I ran it pre-patch with a level 35 Necro and did not find it hard either (we did Howling King’s Path). Post-patch with a lvl 35…I suppose this video will see.

so Anet designed a dungeon which is too hard for pug and too easy for coordinate group. So who the hack is Anet design the dungeon for.

They still have some tweaking to do, that is for sure, but I’m pretty convinced they made these changes to appeal more to the hard-core community.

Maestro.5376:

Um, because with a party of mixed levels (40-80), the run wasn’t a problem for any of the members post-patch? Because I have a brain and can extrapolate numbers?

I only run dungeons with fully geared 80s, but I’m inclined to agree with you (level 35 party should be able to do new AC, if they are sufficiently skilled).

However, you can’t expect much of a positive response if you make a bold, confrontational post and leave people with no real supporting evidence; your only argument is “Trust my judgement” and people have no reason to do so.

Also, I don’t think it’s sound to simply extrapolate difficulty linearly, the game/fights can be chaotic, the party having or lacking a chunk of extra HP or damage, not to mention traits and skills, could cause things play out very differently.

I agree that dieing while learning the place should not be an issue. I have no problems with dieing. My problems is that it would be almost impossible for 5 brand new 35s with no experience in this place to do it. Where are they going to learn. If what they don’t want is level 80s farming it then change the level cap. I understand they need to be some what hard to do but this s not wow and dungeon mechanics are much different in this game then others. This alone makes a much longer learning cure then most are use to. When level 80s with exotics have a hard time its too much.

Dungeons are supposed to be end-game so yes if you just hit level 35, suck with your profession, have crap gear, have bad build, don’t have any good skills unlocked and have no idea what you are doing, then you won’t make it.

I have to agree to the OP. Did path 1 yesterday for the first time since patch. Group (PUG) consisted of 2 80s and the rest 40 (me) – 56. Was a very smooth run.