Guild Wars 2

I will try to keep this as concise as possible, however; some background is required.
I am a member of one of the largest guilds on Jade Quarry as a result of this, there are constant Guild Dungeon runs. Let me also point out that I have played every character to 80. The problem I have with Dungeons is the fact that there is such extreme prejudice as to what people want to bring for fast Dungeon runs, exclusively Warriors and Mesmers. This isn’t to say that the dungeons cannot be done with other classes, in fact, I have done nearly every dungeon with every possible class combination to relative success. Yet my point remains: I don’t really want to run every single dungeon on my warrior or mesmer just because of their unparalleled sustainable burst damage. Both classes are fun, but sadly they are not for me as I have had to spend more time on them than I desire because of imbalance in efficiency in dungeons.

The value of condition damage, especially for bleed based condition damage is TIME. If a mob is burst down instantly by hunderp-blades or shatter spec mesmers there is no point to applying conditions or bringing a condition based class.

The value of support is measured by healing and boons. When mobs die instantly, there is a somewhat degrading value for both of these. I will not go into the value of tanks because in this game it’s usually shared with support.

i think you kind of answered yourself. conditions are about damage over time, and its not a fast way to complete dungeons. it works, for sure, but isnt the fastest way. if you dont want to run dungeons with a warrior or mes then dont, play what you want to play, just dont expect to blow through dungeons.

with that said, i think they need to either remove the condition cap in PVE or have each player have their own conditions, i.e. two theives applying bleeds would have separate stacks of bleeds, so the mob would end up taking 50 stacks of bleeding. that would be nasty, especially if you have 5 classes stacking bleeds. dont think im just being an kitten and saying you have to play burst builds. conditions need work in pve. but for now, they still work, they just arent incredibly fast.

To summarize what OP said:

• Condition damage should not have a cap and that would fix dungeons.

I disagree that would fix dungeons.

Dungeons are easy because it is not balanced around the control role. First, lets ask: Why is inferior professions inferior? Because their pvp design is about control. We don’t need control other than projectile reflection. Lets ask: Why do we not need control? The answer, Each and every encounter is balanced around 2 or less dodges. It has to be balanced around 3 or more dodges to make it hard and make it open to more inferior professions like the Rangers.

Why would balancing dungeons on more than three dodges will open up more professions and builds? Simple.

Three scavengers leap at you at three different times. You can only dodge two, someone needs to stun the third one.

What if you don’t have anyone to stun the third one? You have to use a block skill to survive.

Rangers, the least wanted profession, can take up the offer for both positions. A bow ranger can daze or knockback the third enemy. Also, a sword/dagger or greatsword ranger can evade/block using the skills.

ArenaNet has to balance the dungeon around control, not dodge rolls if they want explorable dungeons to be HARD. This will open up more to inferior professions as this is their expertise.

Guardians and mesmers are very strong at control and they are tier 1 classes in PVE. You’re not going to make it any better for a ranger by making control more important in dungeons.

Guardian and mesmers are very strong in projectile reflection control. Which is the only control you need.

Ranger excel in snares far better than Mesmer and Guardians combined. Ranger got Barrage, Frost trap, Muddy Terrain, Spike Trap, Entangle.

Yet, snare skills are worthless in the meta.

You still aren’t getting it. Rangers are bad for reasons that go far beyond the type of content found in dungeons.

Enlighten me. I am writing a huge essay on how to integrate control role into dungeon. I even covered the role of pets into it.

Nikaido.3457:

runeblade.7514:

Guardian and mesmers are very strong in projectile reflection control. Which is the only control you need.

I don’t think I’ll answer anything after this post because you really don’t know anything about these two classes. Your own post mentioned things like knockback and daze, which mesmers have plenty of.

Guardians and mesmers cover a lot of these : knockback, AoE pull, daze, immobilize, stun, area of denial (ring of warding, line of warding) and mesmers can be traited to perma cripple everything. They also do everything other than control better than rangers. The only thing among the stuff you mention that is not covered are chills, and if I wanted chills I’d take an elementalist or a necromancer over a ranger any day.

The scavenger example in itself is plenty nonsensical. You’re saying the targeted guy would use two dodge and then have to use a block.. plenty of classes have more evades than that, warrior itself does. Whirlwind on greatsword is the warrior third dodge. Burst skill will regenerate endurance and give one more. Coupled with sigil of energy and a shield or sword offhand and..
The thought that we only have two dodge is rather innocent.

Well, you probably won’t get it. The examples given were beyond pointless and reinforcing the need for control is not going to make rangers any more desirable in their current state.

Rangers can use reliable daze, knockback, mass immobilize, blind, chill, stun, area of denial(traps), huge amount of cripple, and have a pet. They also have access to even more short cooldown evades with sword/dagger or Greatsword. Their dodge grants them protection. They always get perma-vigor with a 5 point trait. Their pets can give rangers further access to more conditions like weakness, blind, fear. This is just two profession being compared with one profession.

All of these conditions and control skills are worthless in the meta, but this is assuming that all control and conditions are balanced to be worthwhile.

The point of the control role being useful is to make inferior profession useful, not make superior profession useless. Which does a pretty good job when you are whining how great Mesmers and Guardians are to attempt to belittle the ranger.