Guild Wars 2

I play with a fully ascended Druid in full Nomad’s gear. Yes, I know…terrible right?

I won’t be accepted by any raiding group who actually wants to beat the raid bosses, but I understand that. I wouldn’t even take me into the raid.

The raid isn’t designed to be doable by people who aren’t wearing DPS gear.

My belief is that it’s the timer that kills off any non-DPS player’s chances of getting into the raid. And here’s my suggestion:

-Take away the timer.
-Make the bosses hit 5x harder.

I fought the Vale Guardian and won but fought Gorseval and we didn’t have the DPS for the timer. With my Nomad’s gear I can stand in Gorseval’s face all day and never die, and that’s not very fair to Gorseval…poor guy.

If the raid bosses were actually difficult they’d 2-3 shot me EVEN IN MY NOMAD’S GEAR. That means they’d most likely 1 shot a full on Berserker or Sinister build, now THAT’S a real challenge.

As it stands, instead, I can go solo into an 8 minute long Vale Guardian fight and only be killed once the timer empties. I shouldn’t make it that far to begin with AND I shouldn’t magically get ripped after 8 minutes.

Rather than using artificial difficulty, like a timer you have to beat, why not use some organic difficulty and have the bosses hit like dump trucks so that even I~ can’t just stand there and let him punch me in the face?

I see your point but your solution is impractical.
The enrage timer is there to keep the encounter at a reasonable time window. If it were not there all that would do is flip the meta upside down and everyone would need super-tank gear. Also because the boss would hit 5x harder he would just one shot cleave any and all players who have below 25k life.
An encounter would take literally hours to beat and be very boring, because there would be no need to work with the mechanics because you could just face-tank it and heal it all away.

I’m sure there’s a reasonable compromise. Lengthen the timer and have him hit X times harder.

The meta should be as wide a playing field as possible with the only requirement for victory being playing the game and performing the mechanics really well. As professional game designers I’m sure they can find a way for tanky characters to compete.

Thank you, also, for your reasonable response.

Well that’s what the timers and mechanics are for. The Sabetha platform, the Evolved Slublings at Sloth, Gors’ 4 limited updrafts etc are all there (even ignoring the timer) to prevent you from facetanking everything perpetually.

Thus raids are all about finding a balance between survivability and DPS. It’s just that Gors has a higher DPS requirement and VG has less, but you still need to weigh both.

Gors already does his 1 shot world eater thingy if you fail the mechanics, Sabetha one shots you if you fail to avoid the flame thrower and Matthias kills the sacrificed dude instantly if you fail to break the bar. These mechanics are already in there.

Finally I don’t understand why you’re saying bosses are too easy when you’re wearing N-O-M-A-D-S (which is a running joke of a stat, even in WvW where damage soaking is important). Maybe get some real stats (viper/zerk/zealots) before complaining about things being too easy.

Enrage timer is cop-out game design, yes, but having the boss hit 5 times harder is an even worse idea. It would be better to make the boss attack much faster than make the boss hit harder. Or even some combination of both, maybe?

And dps requirements could be created in more creative ways. Gorseval’s dps requirement is already good as is. Remove the timer, make it attack more frequently, and maybe make the adds more threatening somehow. Done.

For VG, you could simply make the seekers never despawn in the last phase. (or never despawn at all? too much?) There. No enrage timer needed.

Sabetha and sloth and bandit trio all already have mechanics that make an enrage timer unnecessary (I have literally never seen the timer run out on bandit camp) and that make high dps necessary. Could amp up those mechanics, and amp up attack frequency again. Also it’s weird that Sabetha’s actual attacks don’t do any damage

bai long.2085:

The meta should be as wide a playing field as possible […]

Just to get disambiguation:
“The Meta” is the mathematically best option within the current state of the game. It counters most (optimally all) strengths and attacks most (optimally all) weaknesses of your opponents (applicable to any game)
If the meta is a playing field it means that either you have too many weaknesses to attack or too little strengths to counter.
That is good in casual PvE, where players can mix’n’match their builds and discover Tyria to their hearts content.
But in the raids, where the odds are far against you, you need to min-max your builds to optimally conquer the situation.

instead of trying to change raids you should try to change yourself.
to be blunt you are pretty selfish.

one part about the difficulty in raids is (to a certain extend in gw2) and should be managing to do a perfect dps rotation while suriving. if you can just afk facetank stuff and not worry about dps then that huge part of difficulty will be lost and in the end it will only be easier.

Go forge, change stats, enjoy the game. Profit.

Some bosses can be killed or tanked even way after reaching the enrage phase. If you are worried about not being accepted into a raid group that you request the change of a whole game mode to suit your play style, that’s pretty selfish. Your solution should be looking for people with the same mind set as yours to tackle the challenge. Don’t forget to educate yourself about the boss’ mechanics.

So your solution to make your gear “more viable” (which it still wouldn’t be) is making other players gear useless? No ty.

Everything else has been said.

Doesn’t the enrage timer do exactly what you suggest? The bosses hit more when the timer his zero. I realize some bosses have mechanic-based timers as well (gorseval, sabetha) but your “solution” doesn’t change these bosses.

1) The enrage timer isn’t an instant wipe. This only increase the damage input of the boss. If you want to form a group of 10 nomads you can probably kill several boss during the enrage time. You will be able to do matthias for sure, gorseval you sure won’t be able to, sabetha is probably a no either because of the platform. But for the remaining 3, i’m not sure, but I think you could.

2) People don’t want Nomad gear people because they don’t bring anything to the party. It’s selfish self survivability setup. People actually like full healer Druid, or protection guardian because they bring something to the group, not just to themselves.

3) I still don’t get why people are so attach to their gear? It’s just some boring passive buff. You should care about your trait, weapons and skill. Something that actually affect how you play your character. The only difference of wearing nomad gear is that you can get hit more often and do bad dps. I don’t see why people want to build part of the game around gear set, they are the most boring aspect of a build.

Since a lot of the groups I see selling raids are doing 8 man kills using 2 pure magi’s healers, I don’t believe your nomads gear would be a detriment to clearing the raid before the enrage timer. My guess is that there are other issues preventing you from clearing the raid.

Passive defenses are nice and all for survival but are secondary to learning and knowing the fight when it comes to raids. You can run a full glass DPS class and be fine with active defenses like blocks and dodging (but dodging is an exploit I hear). Not standing where you shouldn’t and avoiding the large hits are what take skill in the raid, instead of building gear to just stand there and go get a drink while you tickle the bosses to death.

I’m not sure why everyone assumes that because I’m wearing Nomad’s gear I just stand around afk taking hits while auto-attacking.

I don’t think it’s selfish of me at all to want to be able to complete the raid in the gearset of my choice. Isn’t the entire game founded upon the idea of being able to choose?

For those who say I should just mystic forge all of my gear and roll another stat, I say that I don’t want to. It’s as simple a matter as me not enjoying playing DPS builds. It’s like if I joined up with a rec center and discovered that all they ever do is play basketball even though they have tennis courts, a baseball diamond and pool tables. So I ask if anyone would like to play some other games and everyone jumps on me for it. In the end, if I have to play basketball or nothing I’ll choose nothing (because I don’t like basketball).

I think I’m getting some rather closed-minded responses from people that obviously aren’t trying to put themselves in my shoes and understand what I’m getting at.

Forget that I’m wearing Nomad’s and forget all of my EXAMPLE suggestions (I’m not a game designer, but more than likely neither are you). Forget every piece of my original post that made it too personal for you and see if this these questions make sense to you:

Asking ArenaNet:

-Can we please find a way for all types of builds to viable in the raids?
-If so, can we please ensure that people using these builds are REQUIRED to have knowledge of the mechanics and high general skill?

People are selling runs and achievements for God’s sake…

Would any of you really~ have any problem with my suggestion of making it so that any TYPE of build could work for a raid if they (as professional designers) could do it in a way that did not affect how easy the bosses were to beat?

I don’t think my questions are unreasonable.

OP i think that you need to find a raiding guild who will accept you for who you are. When i pug a SV clear i expect everybody to be running to appropriate builds and gear to get it done at a reasonable pace. Don’t try to force your opinions on the rest of us who want to be efficient. Also i expect this thread to get closed like the others that have popped up befor this one.

bai long.2085:

I don’t think it’s selfish of me at all to want to be able to complete the raid in the gearset of my choice. Isn’t the entire game founded upon the idea of being able to choose?

You’re intentionally reducing your own overall efficacy in your role by choosing the stat combination you’ve picked. The problem is that you’re telling other people that you’re trying to party with that you are intentionally choosing a weaker build “because you like it” and that they need to be OK with that. That’s why it’s selfish; you’re not thinking about what other people want (efficiency). If you want to play in Nomad’s gear, you need to find a group who is okay with you running Nomad’s gear. It’s as simple as that.

bai long.2085:

For those who say I should just mystic forge all of my gear and roll another stat, I say that I don’t want to. It’s as simple a matter as me not enjoying playing DPS builds.

Run Magi’s stats. If you think that Magi’s stats is a DPS build you’re crazy, but at least with Magi’s you do non-zero damage and won’t mess up the tanking on VG/Gorseval with unnecessary Toughness. Pub groups will accept Druid’s running Magi’s as well, so you should at least be able to pub if you do that.

bai long.2085:

Asking ArenaNet:

-Can we please find a way for all types of builds to viable in the raids?
-If so, can we please ensure that people using these builds are REQUIRED to have knowledge of the mechanics and high general skill?

ANet won’t answer these questions directly because it opens a can of worms, but given that I have a good feeling I understand their stance here I’ll take a crack at it.

• All types of builds are already viable in raids. People can 8-man any boss currently, meaning that the remaining 2 people could be dead the entire fight or wearing Nomad’s or whatever and still succeed. You just need to find a group willing to deal with you either being dead or in Nomad’s gear.
• All players are already required to understand the mechanics of all raid bosses or they will die. There are numerous one-shot and high damage mechanics that will punish any player who doesn’t have any idea what’s happening.

I’m assuming, then, that none of you have any ideas for improvements to the raids?

I say that the more people you can please the better. And if you can institute a change that doesn’t make the people who already enjoy raids not enjoy them any longer, why not do it?

Progressive change is healthy. Mind you, “progressive”.

In Word of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XIV, etc…I can’t take 10 of my Paladin buddies into a dungeon or raid and expect to stand a chance. Those games weren’t designed to allow for people playing like that.

Guild Wars 2 was designed to allow that. I can go into a dungeon or fractal with 5 Cleric’s guardians all wielding maces if I want to and stand a chance, just like people often (or used to anyway) go in with 5 Berserker’s greatsword warriors (which was actually a pretty fast way of getting it done).

I can’t go in to the raid with 10 Cleric’s guardians with maces and shields? If they allowed it to be beaten that way it would be too easy right?

Here’s an illustration of my point:

Any group that takes me into any fractal, can’t die. We can’t wipe. (sorry for tooting my own horn here, but its for the sake of my point) I’m too skilled and too defensive to be killed by anything that exists in any fractals. A group that takes me along takes slightly longer to beat the fractal, obviously because my damage is somewhere around 1,300 DPS (very low). Experienced players don’t always appreciate me because they want to win yesterday. Lesser experienced players love me because even when they’re all dead I can solo the bosses if need be.

If you want to win at something, play it safe right? Take as few chances as possible. If you want to get something done quickly, take chances and go for it.

Should I be allowed to live forever against Mai Trin 100? I don’t think so. It’s a little unfair honestly because I’m like an insurance policy. Since day 1 it’s been about either doing things quickly or doing things safely.

Most people like doing things quickly, because they can ALSO do it safely by dodging, blocking and evading. I’m fine with that. If you’re that good you deserve it.

But being that good doesn’t automatically mean you enjoy playing DPS builds. I know because I’m that good and I don’t. I have 28k health and it never drops below 24k.

In a world where you can win with a 1 HP healthpool max by dodging everything, the way I play is COMPLETELY obsolete. The fact is, we’re already in that world. My build is completely obsolete for the challenges in the raids.

My gripe was, that I wish it were designed so that you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Whatever form that takes, I don’t care. I’d just appreciate them extending the options.

bai long.2085:

I’m assuming, then, that none of you have any ideas for improvements to the raids?

Progressive change is healthy. Mind you, “progressive”.

Why so early? Raids are still new and appreciated by many players. It’s not necessary to change anything or optimize something till it’s broken. Some things are good as they are. (Doesn’t mean there are things in current raid wings that have to be improved – but it’s not anything that has to do with nomads gear.)

bai long.2085:

Guild Wars 2 was designed to allow that. I can go into a dungeon or fractal with 5 Cleric’s guardians all wielding maces if I want to and stand a chance, just like people often (or used to anyway) go in with 5 Berserker’s greatsword warriors (which was actually a pretty fast way of getting it done).

I can’t go in to the raid with 10 Cleric’s guardians with maces and shields? If they allowed it to be beaten that way it would be too easy right?

GW2 was designed like this at headstart. But raids are a relatively new thing in this game and Anet already said that it is a little step aside from the “PHIW”-style. This game is so big that raids are just a little percentage of the game. And they were designed for a different player community than the core game is offering. It’s not that I’m against you personally but I’m against that raids are content for everybody because then they wouldn’t be challenging one single second you play them. A very valuable player community would have left the game (many skill-oriented players already have left due to lack of challenging content before) so it was a well thought move of the company to implement raids like they are now.

bai long.2085:

I’m too skilled and too defensive to be killed by anything that exists in any fractals.

Sorry to say, but you are not skilled at all in that gear. Every blind crippled one-handed monkey could facetank fractals in nomads. Skill is the last thing involved here. (No offense to monkeys, they are cute and often funny animals.)

bai long.2085:

If you want to win at something, play it safe right?

Wrong. You won’t win if you don’t risk a thing. That’s a more realistic approach for the real life as well. You are safe on the way home.

bai long.2085:

Should I be allowed to live forever against Mai Trin 100? I don’t think so. It’s a little unfair honestly because I’m like an insurance policy. Since day 1 it’s been about either doing things quickly or doing things safely.

Who cares? Even full offensive groups with zerker/viper only live forever against Mai Trin 100. She hits like cotton wool. You have no point here.

bai long.2085:

I know because I’m that good and I don’t. I have 28k health and it never drops below 24k.

I have to pick it up again: You are not (that) good. It’s the gear giving you false pretences.

At last: You were told to look for a group letting you play in your nomads gear. Maybe you will find like-minded people out there willing to take you with them.
Like Nike wrote before, the content can be low-manned so there is actually room for some (not all) players in “PHIW”-style. I also agree to him that your problems are located elsewhere probably (very probably).

My question is, isn’t enrage is what you are asking for? I mean it’s not an insta kill mechanic, I think it just increases the boss’s damage by 300%. I’ve killed gorse with about 20 sec into enrage with a “normal” raid composition, I don’t see why wouldn’t it be possible to stay alive with 10 skilled nomad against VG forever.

The other thing you are asking for , which is to make more tanky builds a requirement for succeding , I just don’t see why. They could make unavoidable damage sources from the boss, meaning you need more than base health to just survive, but that would put other people in your shoes. People who don’t want to play tanky. There are spots for builds with higher survivability like healer druids & tanks, and as others pointed out, you can 6 man most of the bosses, so it’s not like being full zerker is a requirement.

Scipio.3204:

My question is, isn’t enrage is what you are asking for? I mean it’s not an insta kill mechanic, I think it just increases the boss’s damage by 300%. I’ve killed gorse with about 20 sec into enrage with a “normal” raid composition, I don’t see why wouldn’t it be possible to stay alive with 10 skilled nomad against VG forever

It’s very possible. I know there was a kill of 10 cleric tempests who for some reason thought it was fun to try.

Why so early? Raids are still new and appreciated by many players. It’s not necessary to change anything or optimize something till it’s broken. Some things are good as they are. (Doesn’t mean there are things in current raid wings that have to be improved – but it’s not anything that has to do with nomads gear.)

Actually that’s incorrect. The first raid wing is, by now (by MMO standards) old. Many hardcore players have already left the game because they weren’t being challenged by the raids and there was nothing left for them. I think what you meant was that there are still people who haven’t beaten it.

GW2 was designed like this at headstart. But eaids are a relatively new thing in this game and Anet already said that it is a little step aside from the “PHIW”-style. This game is so big that raids are just a little percentage of the game. And they were designed for a different player community than the core game is offering. It’s not that I’m against you personally but I’m against that raids are content for everybody because then they wouldn’t be challenging one single second you play them. A very valuable player community would have left the game (many skill-oriented players already have left due to lack of challenging content before) so it was a well thought move of the company to implement raids like they are now.

I’ve NEVER said that raids are for everybody. What I’ve been saying this entire time is that everyone who’s skilled enough deserves the option to attempt it how they choose.

Sorry to say, but you are not skilled at all in that gear. Every blind crippled one-handed monkey could facetank fractals in nomads. Skill is the last thing involved here. (No offense to monkeys, they are cute and often funny animals.)

I don’t know how you could possibly make a statement like that. Can I not be a 5’2" person and still shoot a basketball well? Besides, you can’t know how I play, how well I dodge, etc. because you haven’t watched my screen while I play and I don’t have any videos up on youtube. You have to take what I say about myself at face value when you don’t have any way of knowing otherwise. I dodge, evade, block and perform fight mechanics as well as or better than other people (again, not to sound braggadocious).

Wrong. You won’t win if you don’t risk a thing. That’s a more realistic approach for the real life as well. You are safe on the way home.

I may be uniquely qualified to disagree with you (but I won’t say how as it would incite more uneducated responses from other people), so I’ll say that the best way to win is to minimize your risk. You’ve never heard the tale of the tortoise and the hare?

Who cares? Even full offensive groups with zerker/viper only live forever against Mai Trin 100. She hits like cotton wool. You have no point here.

This is also false. If you dodge every attack then sure, you live forever. But, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about being able to literally stand there and take the damage IF I WANT TO. Don’t get confused about that statement and think that’s what I actually do in combat. Just because I’m wearing defensive gear doesn’t mean I dodge, block, evade any less than anyone else. It simply means, I can afford not to if need be. If you face-tank Mai Trin with Berserker’s gear you will die. I won’t. That’s my point, though. That’s a terrible way to play.

I have to pick it up again: You are not (that) good. It’s the gear giving you false pretences.
At last: You were told to look for a group letting you play in your nomads gear. Maybe you will find like-minded people out there willing to take you with them.
Like Nike wrote before, the content can be low-manned so there is actually room for some (not all) players in “PHIW”-style. I also agree to him that your problems are located elsewhere probably (very probably).

Your tone makes it seem like maybe you have a degree in statistical analysis because I have no idea how you could know anything about how I play. Maybe you do have that degree. Though even if you did, you still wouldn’t be able to know.

Your post seemed to be more of a jab at me than anything else and I wish I could have pulled something more from it.

The responses here are ridiculous! It’s like I’m saying “Hey my friends and I want to play basketball with you guys.” and everyone says “You’re not tall enough, go play tennis!”.

Again, I’ll reiterate…

My only question is…Why not alter them in a way that would keep everyone who already plays happy while allowing more people to participate?

My question is, isn’t enrage is what you are asking for? I mean it’s not an insta kill mechanic, I think it just increases the boss’s damage by 300%. I’ve killed gorse with about 20 sec into enrage with a “normal” raid composition, I don’t see why wouldn’t it be possible to stay alive with 10 skilled nomad against VG forever.

That’s a good point. And I wouldn’t at all mind an enrage timer that worked for each of them how it does for the Vale Guardian. Gorseval though, you’ll just die when all of the updrafts are depleted.

The other thing you are asking for , which is to make more tanky builds a requirement for succeding , I just don’t see why. They could make unavoidable damage sources from the boss, meaning you need more than base health to just survive, but that would put other people in your shoes. People who don’t want to play tanky. There are spots for builds with higher survivability like healer druids & tanks, and as others pointed out, you can 6 man most of the bosses, so it’s not like being full zerker is a requirement.

I’m not saying I want tanky builds to be a requirement for succeeding. I’m saying I don’t want a party composition that consists of mostly tanky builds to be doomed from the start.

My value in dungeons and fractals usually comes in the form of keeping the more DPS oriented players alive and reviving them if they down. What everyone here is saying is that people who complete the raids are so good at avoiding the damage that they don’t need anyone looking out for them like that. That is completely true. Nobody needs me to do that for them. The flaw is in the fight’s design allowing players to avoid a large chunk of the damage if they’re skilled enough. It puts me out of a job. But most of the game is like that, to be honest.

In a world where nobody ever downs, the highest DPS character is king. I guess welcome to Guild Wars 2?

bai long.2085:

I’m not saying I want tanky builds to be a requirement for succeeding. I’m saying I don’t want a party composition that consists of mostly tanky builds to be doomed from the start.

In a way you are asking for that though. There’s 2 options here: 1. either amp up the dmg so much that it’s a requirement for everyone or 2. Remove enrage mechanics like updrafts and sabetha platform which makes it doable by everyone, essentially nerfing the current only slightly “challenging” content in game to the point where everyone can do it without even the slightest effort.

This thread is basically “raids are too easy for me even though I can’t even kill Gors, they should make everything harder though cuz it’s like too easy!!!!!”

Uh huh, tell me more about how skilled you are in your full nomads.

So because you refuse to change your build that means the entire encounter needs to change to suit your build? That’s absolutely absurd. Raids are a TEAM setting, you make changes to your build to the benefit of the team regardless of your own preference. By refusing to alter your gear for the good of the entire team you are being selfish and that alone is reason not to bring you into a raid.

This is like crying about not being allowed to play hockey because instead of bringing a hockey stick you brought a tennis racket.

@Memories Lost.7634

I appreciate your analogy and think it illustrates the situation well.

In my opinion, I should be able to show up to play hockey with whatever I want. Back in 2012, when the game was released, that’s how it was and that’s what I’d appreciated about it. This is back before there was a well established meta and it was a time when the most difficult challenge in the game was Arah Path 4, where groups were spending 4+ hours trying to beat Simin. He’s/She’s nerfed now because people complained that it was too difficult for them to beat. There wasn’t a timer on it either. It was good old fashioned difficulty. Pure mechanics and staying alive. This is back when you had no idea what builds people were using just by looking at what they were using. People created their own builds and some of them were great, some of them sucked.

I loved the fact (and still love, in most content) that I could play ANY build I could think up and succeed with it. I’d solo run some dungeons naked, just to have some fun. But it’s not because I was wearing this or wearing that. It’s because I was good and I understood what I’d made even when other people didn’t.

I use this analogy a lot when talking to my buddy about Guild Wars 2:

It’s like putting together an RC car from scratch. The majority of the fun (for me, maybe for others too) is picking exactly what features you want and exactly how you’d like to race it. Maybe I want the big fat all-terrain wheels and this and that blah, blah, blah. The fun is in trying out what you’d made. Never in my life have I been interested in copying what someone else had done, just because that rips the fun right out of it. Maybe most people only enjoy racing the RC cars if they’re using the standard top of the line official models. Here I come with my homemade build that works for me.

For the longest time this is what made GW2 enjoyable to play. It’s still enjoyable to play, but I’m a completionist and not having the raid completed is bothersome to my pride, but not so much that I’m willing to trade in my homemade car for a pre-made one.

Then the raids. I have my little RC car all ready to go. However, the track I’m racing on is just a solid straight line. It’s just a drag-race and mine wasn’t built for that. I never wanted a dragster.

I could easily mystic forge all of my gear and find a group and have the raid beaten within a short time, but that would cheapen it for me. It would cheapen it for me because that’d mean admitting that the build I’d made and refined over the years just wasn’t up to snuff when it came to beating the raid.

To respond to Nike, though, I could get in with a group that was going to 6 or 7 man a boss and just kinda go along for the ride. Albeit, I’d probably have to pay them (maybe not). The fact would remain though, that I was receiving a handout or a service or a favor from somebody. Somebody took pity on poor Nomad’s wearing me and let me come along. That’s a punch in the pride. And I’m very prideful, to be honest.

It sounds like I’m coming here and complaining about how everything should conform to me because I just can’t seem to beat stuff. That’s not what I’m trying to do. All I’m trying to do is provide some creative criticism because more varied builds in raids has benefits for everyone.

I don’t try the raids anymore because I don’t appreciate people thinking they’re carrying me through, which they probably (more or less) ARE, according to what is required in the fights. Honestly I think I fought Gorseval twice and got people that just couldn’t for the life of them get into the updrafts. But the contempt I was receiving even asking to be invited just soured me on the whole experience. That being said, I don’t log on every night, try, fail then complain about it. I haven’t attempted a raid in 4 or 5 months. Partially because I don’t want to spend 2 hours listening to people tell me to reroll my gear whenever I ask if they need any more people.

If I never get to beat the raids it’s not a really big deal, since I have more important things to do than worry about that (like everyone else). I just thought I’d come here and share my constructive criticisms.

I take all the constructive criticism I can get to heart, provide people aren’t nasty about it. That’s all I’m trying to do here.

bai long.2085:

Actually that’s incorrect. The first raid wing is, by now (by MMO standards) old. Many hardcore players have already left the game because they weren’t being challenged by the raids and there was nothing left for them. I think what you meant was that there are still people who haven’t beaten it.

No, for GW2 standards, and we all know it, even the first raid wing is still new content. No contradiction permitted.

bai long.2085:

I’ve NEVER said that raids are for everybody. What I’ve been saying this entire time is that everyone who’s skilled enough deserves the option to attempt it how they choose.

It is an option for everyone to wear any gear you want in raids but most likely it won’t let you succeed.
Again, wearing nomads gear and facing enemies takes no skill at all. 0,0%! To be a skilled player it also means you have to react to mechanics, learn them and then don’t die. This point is erased by wearing nomads in every other content of the game and you know that.

bai long.2085:

I don’t know how you could possibly make a statement like that. Can I not be a 5’2" person and still shoot a basketball well? Besides, you can’t know how I play, how well I dodge, etc. because you haven’t watched my screen while I play and I don’t have any videos up on youtube. You have to take what I say about myself at face value when you don’t have any way of knowing otherwise. I dodge, evade, block and perform fight mechanics as well as or better than other people (again, not to sound braggadocious).

I don’t care your comparison with basketball because it doesn’t fit here. And yes, I know that you aren’t playing well otherwise you wouldn’t wear full nomads with such an absurd conviction. There are only two arguments for playing nomads:
1. troll/fun build to goof around in the game (can be entertaining of course)
2. you are dying in any other gear which is very antic because even in soldiers gear I tested before HoT when the old tyrian content was “harder” (content was still very easy) without elite spec you couldn’t die except you were brainafk.

bai long.2085:

I may be uniquely qualified to disagree with you (but I won’t say how as it would incite more uneducated responses from other people), so I’ll say that the best way to win is to minimize your risk. You’ve never heard the tale of the tortoise and the hare?

As it’s more of a metaphorical speaking my paragraph wasn’t meant so serious but you gonna take it. I won’t need to reply further to this kitten. ^^

bai long.2085:

This is also false. If you dodge every attack then sure, you live forever. But, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about being able to literally stand there and take the damage IF I WANT TO. Don’t get confused about that statement and think that’s what I actually do in combat. Just because I’m wearing defensive gear doesn’t mean I dodge, block, evade any less than anyone else. It simply means, I can afford not to if need be. If you face-tank Mai Trin with Berserker’s gear you will die. I won’t. That’s my point, though. That’s a terrible way to play.

These words are the reason why I am so happy that Anet would never change their raid content.

bai long.2085:

Your tone makes it seem like maybe you have a degree in statistical analysis because I have no idea how you could know anything about how I play. Maybe you do have that degree. Though even if you did, you still wouldn’t be able to know.

Your post seemed to be more of a jab at me than anything else and I wish I could have pulled something more from it.

You have shown enough insights of your attitude in this thread to give me a good picture of yourself. Players being skilled, taking encounters seriously and making important thoughts wouldn’t behave and argue like you are doing, that’s all.

bai long.2085:

I loved the fact (and still love, in most content) that I could play ANY build I could think up and succeed with it.

I would be very interested to hear how you’d manage that in raids without trivializing the content (like all the other content in game).

bai long.2085:

My question is, isn’t enrage is what you are asking for? I mean it’s not an insta kill mechanic, I think it just increases the boss’s damage by 300%. I’ve killed gorse with about 20 sec into enrage with a “normal” raid composition, I don’t see why wouldn’t it be possible to stay alive with 10 skilled nomad against VG forever.

That’s a good point. And I wouldn’t at all mind an enrage timer that worked for each of them how it does for the Vale Guardian. Gorseval though, you’ll just die when all of the updrafts are depleted.

It’s true , gorseval isn’t a boss you can prolong forever, and neither is sabetha, but the other 4 bosses /in theory/ are. However in case of gorseval you can make the fight a lot longer by not interrupting his rampage attack, I mean , at all, you can just tank your way through it. This could win enough time for a more tanky composition to take him down.

As for sabetha , if you handle the platform damaging sources really well, that fight can take a lot longer than the enrage timer too. I think what you are asking for is already there, but doing raids mostly tanky could be a lot harder than doing it normally,

how is making them hit like trucks not artificial difficulty

These Bai Long posts are so long, so rambling and cover so many of the predictable tropes we see from people who complain about nothing relevant that I am forced to conclude that this is yet another attempt to post inflammatory rhetoric in order to start arguments. There is a word for that, but if I use it my post will be infracted.

bai long.2085:

In my opinion, I should be able to show up to play hockey with whatever I want. Back in 2012, when the game was released, that’s how it was and that’s what I’d appreciated about it.

That’s the think dude, you can. Nothing is limiting you from playing whatever you want. But other people also have the liberty to play with whoever they want. It goes both ways. Why is your liberty to play the build you want, should trump my liberty to play with people that i want to play with? You want to change the game so YOUR way of playing would be appreciate and thousand of people before explain their method to achieve that in the forum and each time it was a terrible idea because it a lot of unintended consequences. More than nothing all those idea achieve what creating a new meta just as ’’limiting’’ just different. A meta that some people would like to play and other dislike. Nobody is against diversity, and if someone is able to explain a method to increase the gear diversity well enough that it could work, then people would be happy to listen, but it never happened.

This is back before there was a well established meta and it was a time when the most difficult challenge in the game was Arah Path 4, where groups were spending 4+ hours trying to beat Simin. He’s/She’s nerfed now because people complained that it was too difficult for them to beat. There wasn’t a timer on it either. It was good old fashioned difficulty. Pure mechanics and staying alive.[/quote]

Did you tried to kill Simin???? Because it’s obvious you either misremember or didn’t tried it at all. It was a pure dps check, the worst there was in the history of the game. You had to dps her fast enough to combat her regen. Of course you had to put the spark in place ASAP or your dps would never be enough, but if you didn’t had enough dps it was over before it even begin. It was 10 times more a dps check than raid could possibly be. They nerfed it because it was a broken design.

bai long.2085:

I loved the fact (and still love, in most content) that I could play ANY build I could think up and succeed with it. I’d solo run some dungeons naked, just to have some fun. But it’s not because I was wearing this or wearing that. It’s because I was good and I understood what I’d made even when other people didn’t.

And you can still do it. But again, people have the liberty to not play with you. On youtube we see videos of people killing VG with 10 Guardian, people doing the raid with 1 of each profession, 6man raid, etc. People can do raid with almost any composition as long as you bring the utility you need for the fight and each utility can be provided by several professions and builds. The difference between the rest of the game and raid is that it’s a lot more difficult than any other PvE content. Not all group could kill VG with 10 Guardian, not all group could 6man a raid boss. For a big portion of the population they just can’t do it. So they play it safe because they want the kill and they ask that everybody play good build. They don’t want to wast 3 hours failling at a boss because someone want to play an weird build because it’s fun. Find a group of player likminded that want to try different thing and don’t mind not killing a boss if things go bad. Don’t complain if not everybody want to do the same thing you want to do. I like playing bango in underwear outside during the winter, I won’t gonna complain that random people on the street don’t want to play with me.

bai long.2085:

For the longest time this is what made GW2 enjoyable to play. It’s still enjoyable to play, but I’m a completionist and not having the raid completed is bothersome to my pride, but not so much that I’m willing to trade in my homemade car for a pre-made one.

Just a small question. Why can’t you have both? I mean, I’m sure you can find a good raid build that you would like to play, why not craft another gear just for raid, and play your unique build everywhere else?

bai long.2085:

Then the raids. I have my little RC car all ready to go. However, the track I’m racing on is just a solid straight line. It’s just a drag-race and mine wasn’t built for that. I never wanted a dragster.

You are talking like the raid are just a dps race, which obviously mean that you don’t have much experience in them. Raid are all about the mechanics and survivability. I raid each boss, each week since their introduction and I maybe failed like 10 times because of dps over all those boss fight. And most of those were on Gorseval before the agro fix. Again, people can 6 man most of those boss, explain to me how is that possible if that’s such a dps race?

bai long.2085:

I could easily mystic forge all of my gear and find a group and have the raid beaten within a short time, but that would cheapen it for me. It would cheapen it for me because that’d mean admitting that the build I’d made and refined over the years just wasn’t up to snuff when it came to beating the raid.

But your build isn’t up to snuff and you should know it. I mean, I’m 100% sure you can beat the raid with your boss if you find a group that is happy to bring you with them. Hell I’m sure you could beat several raid boss in a group where all 10 bring a build similar to yours. But your build wasn’t created around the content, so of course it won’t be the best against that content.

bai long.2085:

It sounds like I’m coming here and complaining about how everything should conform to me because I just can’t seem to beat stuff. That’s not what I’m trying to do. All I’m trying to do is provide some creative criticism because more varied builds in raids has benefits for everyone.

Yes more varied builds in raids sound great. I want to balance more so that build like condi thief, condi warrior, healer guardian, dps mesmer, etc become competitive in raid. But asking for more build to be competitive isn’t the same thing as wanting to bring stuff that is useless to raid. You don’t want to balance the builds, you want to change the content. That’s very different. You don’t want more option to adapt to the content, you want the content to adapt to your build. The problem is that there millions of different unique build possible in gw2 and you can’t adapt the content to each of those. Do you see the difference? When I go against raid, I ask myself what should I bring to help my team, to make my life easier, to beat the boss more efficiently, to be able to succeed at the mechanics more. I want more diversity so I can find a build that work for the content and that I like to play. We need protection defense at Slothazor, I dislike reaper or mesmer, but I like Guardian and Tempest so I can use them instead. They work and I like playing them. Win Win. You on the other end don’t want to adapt to the content. You have your little build and who care about the content, or the rest of your team. You want to play that build and everybody else is toxic because they don’t accept me with that build. Even if that build bring zero to the team or bring zero utility to counter that content.

bai long.2085:

I don’t try the raids anymore because I don’t appreciate people thinking they’re carrying me through, which they probably (more or less) ARE, according to what is required in the fights. Honestly I think I fought Gorseval twice and got people that just couldn’t for the life of them get into the updrafts.

Well, you ain’t gonna find much people defending try hard here. Yup, some people are just bad at the game AND will try to tell everybody what to play. That doesn’t change the fact that for each raid boss you need some role. You need those role to complete the raid with a minimum of ease. Even if your build is one of the best in the whole game, if that doesn’t help filling any of those role needed for that fight, well someone help gonna need to fill those role. And sorry to tell you but nomad doesn’t fill any role. I mean, your build could probably do the tank at Gorseval and VG, but you can’t do any other role than that or you will kitten the agro. So ya, if you can’t fill any role, other people will have to make sure they fill those role. After that, what is your strenght? Staying alive? But I can do that in zerker or viper too. So try yourself to find what is it that you can bring to the team to help them with your build. What is special about your build that will help the team succeed. Don’t ask yourself what the team should do for you, but what you should do for the team. Like we all ask ourself in raid.

bai long.2085:

I take all the constructive criticism I can get to heart, provide people aren’t nasty about it. That’s all I’m trying to do here.

I’m sorry if some people are nasty. But you need to understand that we all try our best to adapt to the team and the content to succeed. It’s team effort so If my group need a healer I’m gonna play my druid. If my team need some reflect, I’m gonna bring my DH. If all role are filled and they need dps, I’m gonna bring my Tempest. And I’m gonna talk to my team. Maye one night I don’t want to play druid. I’m gonna ask if someone want to swap. Sometime nobody else have a druid and I’m gonna play druid for the sake of the team. Other time someone is happy to swap.

So another post about raids eh. Why is it that everyone complaining about raids in one form or another is complaining about it from a pugs perspective. I will always say this in these type of post, FIND A GUILD!

In every game, even in those purely pay to win(trino pls), raids are designed for people that are both skilled enough and are willing to attain any gear necessary to beat the encounter. There will not be, ever, in this game, a balance between the “casuals” and the “elitists”. Because if you do something for the casuals, elitists will complain that the raids will be a total faceroll(even if they already are in this game, but that’s not my point), and if you do something for the elitists, the casuals will constantly cry about how they are being excluded from content(basically all posts about raiding in the past 7 months).

There is no possible balance. Anet could try to add a difficulty challenge to raids, medium being as it is now, easy being something with less boss hp/boss damage/forgiving timers blah blah, and hard being, I suppose, something challenging(this might become insanely hard on sloth or mat, but if you look me in the eye and tell me that the bandit trio in wing2 is hard, I will slap you silly).

These modes could work very well, if it weren’t for the rewards. People would still want legendary armor obtainable from easy mode, while hardcore raiders would totally not be okay with “noobs” getting the same stuff as they are, for completing stuff 3 times easier than they are. Which brings me to my original statement(paragraph1), there is no possible pleasing everyone, in this game, when it comes to raiding.

If you wanna raid, learn the meta, play the meta, or don’t raid at all. Happy raiding everybody

Some of the responses are more along the line that I’m totally wrong in whatever I happen to say. That’s strange to me. More of them still aren’t exactly civil, which is also strange to me because I’ve been more than accommodating to people’s opinions even when sometimes they seem to just be “you don’t get it, son”.

With that being said, if I didn’t care about GW2 or whatever any of you had to say I’d simply stop checking back at this forum post I’d made. If I were here just for the sake of being difficult I’d just not be here. I type my long posts because I can think of a lot to say, about anything.

I’m by no means a game designer, but here are a couple of interesting ideas you could institute to make the raids more accessible (mind you, all of them include removing the timer):

-A mistake based punishment
Rather than having an enrage timer why not have a system where if players screw up a mechanic they’re all punished? For example, if you miss the green circle once on the VG, he gains a permanent X% attack bonus? It doesn’t have to be this specific, but why not have something similar? I think it allows any combination of builds to fight the bosses while ensuring that they’re required to perform the mechanics properly.

-Revivable players
Make players revivable from death. The mistake punishment system would keep things difficult by making players think twice about wasting time reviving someone, unless the person they were down was desperately needed. Who knows? Trying to revive someone from death might actually get the entire party killed. It’s risky, it’s difficult, it adds more variety to the combat.

-More difficult mechanics (at least requiring more people)
To keep people from selling off the raids the mechanics should require 100% of the participants to actively participate in the mechanics. It should take the entire group, minus nobody, to keep from wiping the group. I guess you could still sell a run, provided the person who was buying it knew exactly what to do at every portion of the fight. But at that point, why are they paying to be run through at all?

7 Berserker’s druids at my personal skill level could beat the raid. 10 Nomad’s druids at my skill level could not. The timer would run out. This shouldn’t be the case. If 10 of one type can do it, 10 of any type should be able to do it.

Am I trying to change the way raids work? Yes. Am I challenging the status quo? Yes. However, I’m not suggesting any of what I’m suggesting at ANYONE’S EXPENSE. I don’t want ArenaNet to give me what I want and take away what you like about it. I don’t want them to cater to just me.

I want them to consider the possibility that if they made some changes to the way the raids work they may keep more people playing in the long run and may even bring some people back who’d quit because they weren’t being challenged.

Are they going to change the raids because I made a forum post? No, absolutely not. But I want as many people as possible to weigh in (with civility, mind you) so that just maybe someone important will see it and at least take what I’m saying to mind.

I’ve played GW2 since launch and quit and rejoined multiple times for different reasons: lack of new content, lack of challenge, never any new fractals, never any new dungeons, etc. It’s a routine, to be honest. Fractals is a routine, raiding is a routine for many of those who do it. I log on and run a few fractals for some weapon or armor skins (that maybe I don’t even like) that don’t have any better stats than what I already have. Most people don’t play GW2 for the challenge anymore, they play it because that’s just what they’ve done for the longest time and they hate the idea of missing out on a daily chest.

I have 11k achievement points and I’ve played since launch. There are people with 28k+ achievement points running around just because (pardon the slight insult) they don’t have anything better to do than log in everyday and complete their dailies. That’s what they like to do.

I wish they kept their content fresh and released new (permanent) content regularly, like every other MMO out there, but they kinda don’t. So, as for me, the only source of fun I have playing the game is seeking out ridiculous benchmark challenges for the build I’ve made. The ONE build I’ve made. The ONE character who I ever play. I’m a very focused individual and I do one thing at a time.

I solo dungeon paths for fun (with the build I’d made)
I solo lupicus in Arah (with the build I’d made)
I roam around killing folks in WvW (with the build I’d made)

I wish I could say that I run the raids (with the build I’d made).

bai long.2085:

7 Berserker’s druids at my personal skill level could beat the raid. 10 Nomad’s druids at my skill level could not. The timer would run out. This shouldn’t be the case. If 10 of one type can do it, 10 of any type should be able to do it.

Sorry man but this is just funny.

If you’re wearing Nomad’s gear you do not understand how the game works. You aren’t skilled by any stretch of the imagination.

If you were a zerker player you would need to learn how to dodge, learn how to manipulate projectiles, learn how to manage your boons and weapon skills to survive. As Nomad’s you just kinda stand there and you probably do less damage than a Rifle Turret.

@Sarrs.4831

Your logic makes no sense. I’m a caucasian American person but just because I don’t have to speak Chinese doesn’t mean I can’t. Just because I don’t have to do something doesn’t mean I can’t. I know full well how to do everything you’d specifically listed. Shame on you for assuming too much.

Your logic is “you don’t know how to do something until it’s too dangerous for you not to”. Nope.

My question is, if people can survive well enough as Berserker’s, Sinister, Viper…just in general…then why should other sets like Soldiers, Valkyries, Knights, etc even exist?

If your answer is “they shouldn’t” then ArenaNet has wasted a huge chunk of their time and they aren’t balancing the game very well, are they?

Maybe your answer would be “well you can mix them in with other more valuable sets”. Let’s face it…that’s a cop out. Nobody is wearing Knight’s and says, “we’ll I’d better have just one piece of Berserker’s equipped. Yeah that’d make me just right.” Nobody.

But I’m kind of over trying to give anyone any food for thought. If anyone wants to relay to me how foolish I am or how little I understand about the game, feel free.

bai long.2085:

My question is, if people can survive well enough as Berserker’s, Sinister, Viper…just in general…then why should other sets like Soldiers, Valkyries, Knights, etc even exist?

1. Open world and solo content in which you are supposed to do what you like rather than submit yourself to the group’s needs.
2. WvW.
3. Valkyrie’s is a viable stat set.

Question asked and answered, good talk.

@Sarrs.4831

You’ve answered my question and I have no more complaints or suggestions.
I’ve been enlightened to the true ways of Guild Wars 2 today by people who are probably more qualified than I am in any given subject. Math. Science. Politics.

Of course, if no one was able to gather, that was of the utmost sarcasm.
I’m not enjoying this post anymore, having to sift through snide remarks to discern what someone was trying to say.

I’m willing to debate points with people, but I don’t have the patience to listen to people who’re trying to berate my own opinion. That’s not a debate. That’s just poor people skills.

Join or die right? I cant possibly have anything correct to say, can I?

In the end, I’m not leaving upset. I’m leaving because this is obviously going nowhere and it does actually take quite a bit of time to write one of my long-winded responses, albeit to no real avail.

By all means, carry on without me but if you do try to refrain from boosting your own egos by beating up on me and add something useful to the discussion, as that was the whole point of this post (some of you have).

Take it easy.

There’s nothing to debate until you realize that nomads is basically training wheels for people with no skill. Even in WvW where damage absorption & mitigation is important people consider nomads to be a crutch for scrubs.

If you want your special snowflake builds to work then by all means try it with a group of like minded people, don’t come in complaining about the way raids are because they don’t suit your needs. What next, people complaining that they can’t do raids with their face on the keyboard and no hands?

Also you’ve said multiple times you can could would should be able to do / clear the raids but you obviously haven’t. In fact looking at your post history it shows you’ve been complaining about “zerker meta” for a year now and even though the meta shifted in raids to (Condi DPS/Raw DPS/Healer/Tank) you still grip onto the whole idea that the game is against you when in fact it is you who cannot and will not adapt to anything.

fishball.7204:

There’s nothing to debate until you realize that nomads is basically training wheels for people with no skill. Even in WvW where damage absorption & mitigation is important people consider nomads to be a crutch for scrubs.

If you want your special snowflake builds to work then by all means try it with a group of like minded people, don’t come in complaining about the way raids are because they don’t suit your needs. What next, people complaining that they can’t do raids with their face on the keyboard and no hands?

Also you’ve said multiple times you can could would should be able to do / clear the raids but you obviously haven’t. In fact looking at your post history it shows you’ve been complaining about “zerker meta” for a year now and even though the meta shifted in raids to (Condi DPS/Raw DPS/Healer/Tank) you still grip onto the whole idea that the game is against you when in fact it is you who cannot and will not adapt to anything.

End thread.

bai long.2085:

I’m willing to debate points with people, but I don’t have the patience to listen to people who’re trying to berate my own opinion. That’s not a debate. That’s just poor people skills.

>not willing to listen to people who berate your opinion

bai long.2085:

Of course, if no one was able to gather, that was of the utmost sarcasm.

>makes fun of other peoples’ opinions

bai long.2085:

-A mistake based punishment

Dude, I’m sorry, but that’s the exact reason why some people can be rude to you. You obviously don’t know much about raid, and still you want to have a discussion about how to fix something you have near knowledge about. In the current form of the raid, when you can’t kill a boss it’s like 99,9999% of the time because of the mechanics. It’s almost NEVER EVER because of a lack of dps. Like never. When you miss a green circle you almost wipe the entire team, how about a mistake based punishment?? I’m gonna tell you what I’m saying to new member of my raiding team, when we are training them. Raid are all about mechanics, If I need too, I’m gonna ask you to remove your weapons completely until you learn the mechanics perfectly. Only then start to care about the dps. Raid are currently doing exactly what you are asking there.

bai long.2085:

-Revivable players
Make players revivable from death.

Why? I mean, if you made enough mistake to die in raid, then you are out. This push people to work together to rez you when down.

bai long.2085:

-More difficult mechanics (at least requiring more people)
To keep people from selling off the raids the mechanics should require 100% of the participants to actively participate in the mechanics. It should take the entire group, minus nobody, to keep from wiping the group. I guess you could still sell a run, provided the person who was buying it knew exactly what to do at every portion of the fight. But at that point, why are they paying to be run through at all?

What are you complaining about exactly here? Do you complain because some people sell and some people buy run? Or do you legitimately think that having 10 mechanics roles in each fight would be beneficial to the experience? Because if that’s the first one then who cares, Anet already said it’s ok and it have nothing to do with you. Some people are comfortable buying and other selling. If that’s the second one, it’s a legitimate question. I don’t really agree with you because you need skills and knowledge to be able to low man a raid and most people can’t. Adding more mechanics so that you have no room for errors would be a bad idea if you ask me. How many times we had someone taking the role of another one because something bad happen, or that someone died and we kept going until we killed the boss. Start by killing all the boss and then let’s talk about the difficulty. I agree that more mechanics would be necessary at some boss like Bandit Trio, but for Slothazor, I think that enough people are occupied as it is. You asking to change something without having any experience in it, of course not much people will follow you there buddy.

bai long.2085:

7 Berserker’s druids at my personal skill level could beat the raid. 10 Nomad’s druids at my skill level could not. The timer would run out. This shouldn’t be the case. If 10 of one type can do it, 10 of any type should be able to do it.

Did you tried it? I doubt that 7 Druid could kill any boss to be honest. Maybe, but it’s not a 100% sure. You already lose at Gorseval and VG for not having a tank. I doudt you gonna have enough CC and reflect are Slothazor so lose there too. Bandit Trio is a joke to ya maybe, but the 10 Nomad could do it too. The point of raid is to bring different role, different profession and different build to the table to tackle the mechanics. 7 Zerker Druids is a bad composition, just like 10 Nomads is. Again you are talking without knowing.

bai long.2085:

Am I trying to change the way raids work? Yes. Am I challenging the status quo? Yes. However, I’m not suggesting any of what I’m suggesting at ANYONE’S EXPENSE. I don’t want ArenaNet to give me what I want and take away what you like about it. I don’t want them to cater to just me.

I wouldn’t mind that you would be asking for change in raid if you knew what you were talking about. Pls succeed at all 6 raid boss at least 1 or 2 times, then come back and tell us what wasn’t good, what wasn’t fun enough, what need to change. Then we gonna be able to have a discussion and maybe you gonna have good points that could improve raids.

bai long.2085:

I want them to consider the possibility that if they made some changes to the way the raids work they may keep more people playing in the long run and may even bring some people back who’d quit because they weren’t being challenged.

YOU DIDN’T EVEN BEAT THE RAIDS. Am I in a twilight zone, what the hell is going on.

bai long.2085:

I solo dungeon paths for fun (with the build I’d made)
I solo lupicus in Arah (with the build I’d made)
I roam around killing folks in WvW (with the build I’d made)

I wish I could say that I run the raids (with the build I’d made).

I SOLO dungeon
I SOLO lupicus
I roam SOLO around killing folks in WvW

Do you understand that raids are a team effort. The raid itself doesn’t stop you from playing your build. The raid doesn’t even stop you from doing your part in raid. The only thing stopping you from playing your build in raid is other player that don’t want to play with that build. They prefer someone that adapt their build to the content to help their team the best they can. You can change whatever you want in raid all day everyday. You could make Anet go through 1000 of different version of the raid. You will have the exact same problem 1000 times. The problem isn’t the content, it’s your interaction with other people. Because your liberty to play whatever you want, stop at the liberty of other human being to play with whoever they want too. And if it happen that most people don’t want to play with you, that should tell you something.

I can’t believe you exist. You actually do. Jesus.

bai long.2085:

Some of the responses are more along the line that I’m totally wrong in whatever I happen to say. That’s strange to me. More of them still aren’t exactly civil, which is also strange to me because I’ve been more than accommodating to people’s opinions even when sometimes they seem to just be “you don’t get it, son”.

With that being said, if I didn’t care about GW2 or whatever any of you had to say I’d simply stop checking back at this forum post I’d made. If I were here just for the sake of being difficult I’d just not be here. I type my long posts because I can think of a lot to say, about anything.

I’m by no means a game designer, but here are a couple of interesting ideas you could institute to make the raids more accessible (mind you, all of them include removing the timer):

-A mistake based punishment
Rather than having an enrage timer why not have a system where if players screw up a mechanic they’re all punished? For example, if you miss the green circle once on the VG, he gains a permanent X% attack bonus? It doesn’t have to be this specific, but why not have something similar? I think it allows any combination of builds to fight the bosses while ensuring that they’re required to perform the mechanics properly.

-Revivable players
Make players revivable from death. The mistake punishment system would keep things difficult by making players think twice about wasting time reviving someone, unless the person they were down was desperately needed. Who knows? Trying to revive someone from death might actually get the entire party killed. It’s risky, it’s difficult, it adds more variety to the combat.

-More difficult mechanics (at least requiring more people)
To keep people from selling off the raids the mechanics should require 100% of the participants to actively participate in the mechanics. It should take the entire group, minus nobody, to keep from wiping the group. I guess you could still sell a run, provided the person who was buying it knew exactly what to do at every portion of the fight. But at that point, why are they paying to be run through at all?

7 Berserker’s druids at my personal skill level could beat the raid. 10 Nomad’s druids at my skill level could not. The timer would run out. This shouldn’t be the case. If 10 of one type can do it, 10 of any type should be able to do it.

Am I trying to change the way raids work? Yes. Am I challenging the status quo? Yes. However, I’m not suggesting any of what I’m suggesting at ANYONE’S EXPENSE. I don’t want ArenaNet to give me what I want and take away what you like about it. I don’t want them to cater to just me.

I want them to consider the possibility that if they made some changes to the way the raids work they may keep more people playing in the long run and may even bring some people back who’d quit because they weren’t being challenged.

Are they going to change the raids because I made a forum post? No, absolutely not. But I want as many people as possible to weigh in (with civility, mind you) so that just maybe someone important will see it and at least take what I’m saying to mind.

I’ve played GW2 since launch and quit and rejoined multiple times for different reasons: lack of new content, lack of challenge, never any new fractals, never any new dungeons, etc. It’s a routine, to be honest. Fractals is a routine, raiding is a routine for many of those who do it. I log on and run a few fractals for some weapon or armor skins (that maybe I don’t even like) that don’t have any better stats than what I already have. Most people don’t play GW2 for the challenge anymore, they play it because that’s just what they’ve done for the longest time and they hate the idea of missing out on a daily chest.

I have 11k achievement points and I’ve played since launch. There are people with 28k+ achievement points running around just because (pardon the slight insult) they don’t have anything better to do than log in everyday and complete their dailies. That’s what they like to do.

I wish they kept their content fresh and released new (permanent) content regularly, like every other MMO out there, but they kinda don’t. So, as for me, the only source of fun I have playing the game is seeking out ridiculous benchmark challenges for the build I’ve made. The ONE build I’ve made. The ONE character who I ever play. I’m a very focused individual and I do one thing at a time.

I solo dungeon paths for fun (with the build I’d made)
I solo lupicus in Arah (with the build I’d made)
I roam around killing folks in WvW (with the build I’d made)

I wish I could say that I run the raids (with the build I’d made).

Don’t mistake people who disagree with you as berating your opinion. There may be some snark, but understand we get one of these threads about once a week.

Eliminating the timer will not fix the “problem” you want to address. Here’s why:

1. Most of the encounters are not dps checks. It’s usually the mechanics that cause groups to fail. The exception may be gorseval, but some groups have low-manned this boss.

2. Given that most fights are not dps checks, some players can bring whatever gear they want. However, most groups will not want a nomads character because they don’t contribute very much to the group.

3. If you want to be super tanky, more power to you. The trade off is that the boss may hit the enrage timer and do more damage.

4. Eliminating the enrage timer trivializes damage builds. Why be glassy when you can just sit back, auto attack, and take no damage? Having an enrage timer incentivizes more skilled gameplay.

To most raiders, saying “I want to raid in nomads gear” is like saying “I want to do dungeons with no traits.” Is it possible? Yes. Will you be carried? Yes. Can the whole group do it? Maybe, if they’re skilled enough. The same applies to raids.

As to your contention that your suggestions don’t hurt anyone, I think you’re incorrect. Eliminating the enrage timer has the potential to trivialize the content.

Also, briefly to your other suggestions.

- Why is low manning such a bad thing? Why require 10 people to complete mechanics?

- Most bosses are mechanics based.

- Being able to revive someone trivializes the risk of dying. It doesn’t take that long to revive when you have 5 people doing it.

You could probably solo anything in full nomads.

Honestly, this is more of a showcase of how bad the stat system is versus how bad the raid concept is.

Personally, I think that all stat combos should be 1-2 offensive and 1-2 defensive stats (no 3 offense or 3 defense stat sets). This would make it easier for them to balance content without eliminating our ability to min-max while also shrinking the gap between the best and worst optimized options so that even poorly geared players would be contributing at a reasonable level.

Broken forums are broken.