The State of the Necro..?

The State of the Necro..?

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

Q:

Where do Necro’s stand in dungeon effectiveness?
(The reason this is not on the Necro forum is because I believe the dungeon posters here, can answer this question better then potentially bias Necro players.)

I already have a Mesmer, Guardian and Warrior at 80, but for some reason I have an itch to create a Necro.

I don’t really want to waste my time though if they are useless. I understand they may not be ideal, but is there a place for a well played Necro in dungeons or Fractals?

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

A:

Yeah necro isnt really worth taking for dungeons. However they can be pretty good for fractals. And if your doing high fractals being able to switch between zerk and rampager/condi on the fly is something you should make sure you are able to do. Or just stick to rampager in fractals i guess. :P

My build will be getting some pretty big changes next patch, so I may actually post a full writeup this weekend.

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Posted by: waxpax.6350

waxpax.6350

Single target dps of a zerk necro is pretty good, but you have no cleave and don’t really provide as good of utility as other classes. You have blinds, weakness, and boon/condi conversion but other classes can bring these things plus other buffs. Necro is probably last in the line of what most people would bring in an optimized group.

If you want to try your necro in dungeons, I’d suggest looking at the build spoj has in his sig (I’m sure he’ll post here sooner or later). Just don’t bring a condi necro to a dungeon and you’ll be fine.

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

I posted a similar thread on the WvW forum. Sounds like that his the place for a Necro. I will take a look at some dungeon Necro builds in case for some reason I want to take him on a few runs, however I might as well stick to my warrior for dungeons at this point.

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Posted by: waxpax.6350

waxpax.6350

Oh, necro can be a lot of fun in wvw/pvp. It’s just not as powerful in pve as it is in spvp or wvw.

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Posted by: InfinitySoul.9240

InfinitySoul.9240

Heard hybrid actually is quite good not sure though. Anyone can confirm?

Gotta Pug Em All! Guild Wars 2!
[JAP] JalapenoPeppers

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

It has the advantage of good sustained aoe. Single target dps falls off quite a lot though. The big benefit is in really high fractals, dredge with perma prot take a lot longer to kill with direct damage but condi’s ignore prot so having 1 party member dedicated to rampager/condi is pretty good there. Also dark fields op.

(edited by spoj.9672)

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Posted by: Anicetus.1253

Anicetus.1253

Necros may not be optimal to play, they have almost zero cleave, no movement skills, no vigor and no projectile reflection. Nevertheless i enjoy taking mine into dungeons once in a while, especially in arah path 3 or other dungeons where running has lesser priority.
Their wells are pretty cool, blind and aoe vuln come handy for trashfights

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Posted by: OMNIBUS.2913

OMNIBUS.2913

Atm we can easily apply perma weakness which is great for keeping pugs alive :] . I dont bring my necro into high fractals not cause i think they would be bad but i prefer having my own reflects.

(edited by OMNIBUS.2913)

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Weakness is better in high level fractals than anywhere else. That would be the one place where I WOULD use a necro to spam Weakness.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
DnT is Recruiting – http://www.dtguilds.com/

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Weakening shroud is now getting a buff for pve btw. No icd, 1 bleed stack and 2 second base weakness. Im assuming direct damage will remain so its going to give necro aoe dmg + 2 second weakness every 7 seconds. This is kind of enough for fractals as taking much longer than a few seconds to kill a group is getting risky and the advantage is you can get another 5 mobs weakened only 7 seconds later.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

I play mine because she looks absolutely gorgeous and it’s a durable class when I have to pug and can’t trust anyone. That’s all.
Do you play high level fractals often? It could be decent there as it was already said. Other than that… bring something else.
Of course, if you really want to play it, go ahead. A decent player with a good build will always do 2-5x more dps than a stupid warrior stuck in greatsword, autoattacking.

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Posted by: Stinson.5972

Stinson.5972

It isn’t a horrible choice, it just doesn’t bring much in terms of DPS support, which is the main kind of support that matters in PvE. There are necro builds that can stack vuln decently while still doing damage, although less efficiently than a grenadier engi.

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Posted by: Ropechef.6192

Ropechef.6192

I am really curious about a lot of this as well. Spoj I may have to chat with you in game or something about your necro stuff.

I LOVE my necromancer. but I realize in many regards it is somewhat a selfish class to play in dungeons. Barring what I now am reading as a condi based for high level fracs. but that is a nich role and I am glad that I know I have somewhere to take mine later.

Given that from what I am reading sure A glass cannon/damage based build does a really good job at stacking Vul, and can keep a very steady stream of damage going out and at targets. beyond that is not as much of a team player.
My Warrior does more raw damage. but I have “dps downtime” Where as my necromancer wont hit as hard but I have much greater “dps Uptime” . Problem is that is all I have??? Wariors can bring banners, Gaurds bring (insert dungeon guardian skill here )

Necromancers bring death.

hmm.

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Posted by: Cat Has Ducks.1982

Cat Has Ducks.1982

Just giving my experiences here. When I’m running arah, I sometimes have to pug for the last spot. And if a necro joins. First questions “You switching you class?” If Answer is “no” then they get booted.

And @Ropechec Guards bring Reflects,Aegis blocks, team stability, blinds, Perma Protection if need be, Condi removal if need be, and kittenery.

Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand

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Posted by: Ethics.4519

Ethics.4519

Just giving my experiences here. When I’m running arah, I sometimes have to pug for the last spot. And if a necro joins. First questions “You switching you class?” If Answer is “no” then they get booted.

And @Ropechec Guards bring Reflects,Aegis blocks, team stability, blinds, Perma Protection if need be, Condi removal if need be, and kittenery.

Just wait till my necro hits 80 (my last profession to get there). I might have to switch from mesmer mid-run ;-)

RIP in peace Robert

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Posted by: Cat Has Ducks.1982

Cat Has Ducks.1982

Just wait till my necro hits 80 (my last profession to get there). I might have to switch from mesmer mid-run ;-)

I don’t discriminate on my kicking

Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand

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Posted by: Anicetus.1253

Anicetus.1253

Just giving my experiences here. When I’m running arah, I sometimes have to pug for the last spot. And if a necro joins. First questions "You switching you class?" If Answer is "no" then they get booted.

And @Ropechec Guards bring Reflects,Aegis blocks, team stability, blinds, Perma Protection if need be, Condi removal if need be, and kittenery.

Would you kick me from your arah run if i came as necro? I mean, would you really kick me? From an arah run?

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Posted by: Ethics.4519

Ethics.4519

Just giving my experiences here. When I’m running arah, I sometimes have to pug for the last spot. And if a necro joins. First questions “You switching you class?” If Answer is “no” then they get booted.

And @Ropechec Guards bring Reflects,Aegis blocks, team stability, blinds, Perma Protection if need be, Condi removal if need be, and kittenery.

Would you kick me from your arah run if i came as necro? I mean, would you really kick me? From an arah run?

From what I know of Chuck, yes.

RIP in peace Robert

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Posted by: Cat Has Ducks.1982

Cat Has Ducks.1982

Just giving my experiences here. When I’m running arah, I sometimes have to pug for the last spot. And if a necro joins. First questions “You switching you class?” If Answer is “no” then they get booted.

And @Ropechec Guards bring Reflects,Aegis blocks, team stability, blinds, Perma Protection if need be, Condi removal if need be, and kittenery.

Would you kick me from your arah run if i came as necro? I mean, would you really kick me? From an arah run?

From what I know of Chuck, yes.

Out of principle I’d have to. I’m a man of principles by the way.

Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand

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Posted by: Anicetus.1253

Anicetus.1253

How dare you!
Good i’m on EU and safe from you.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

I am really curious about a lot of this as well. Spoj I may have to chat with you in game or something about your necro stuff.

You can ask me in game anytime, i usually respond unless im really busy or afk. The meta build is getting changed next patch though. Ive written up a full guide which I will be posting when the patch goes live. Waiting to make sure nothing else changes.

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

Yeah necro isnt really worth taking for dungeons. However they can be pretty good for fractals. And if your doing high fractals being able to switch between zerk and rampager/condi on the fly is something you should make sure you are able to do. Or just stick to rampager in fractals i guess. :P

My build will be getting some pretty big changes next patch, so I may actually post a full writeup this weekend.

You know I’ve been looking for someone other then my guadian to do fractals with as well. This could be another good alt for me.

Warrior for Dungeons
Necro for WvW and Fractals
Guardian.. can do whatever he wants, lol.

I’ll be looking forward to that write up spoj; I better get leveling this guy.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Its a writeup mainly for the dungeon build. But I plan to add a rampager build to it later on.

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Posted by: Zach.3264

Zach.3264

I actually really enjoy my D/F power Necro with wells for dungeons. That being said, I only ever really run CoF paths.

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Posted by: AndrewSX.3794

AndrewSX.3794

The Nec has 3 issues imo:

-mostly single target dmg. While on bosses alone this isn’t much important, it makes clearing trash with usual “stacklosandcleave” extremely uneffective. You can use some other skills to ease the issue (WellofSuffering, Life Transfer, Life Blast if traited, Locus Swarm) but the problem is still there.
-lack of self and team buffing. Self buffing is limited almost only to BloodisPower (which i’ve seen being dropped in some builds), traited Life Blast might stacks and 5sec fury on DS swap. And..that’s it. No more self buffs, no more team buffs. Which leads to…
-a zerker Necro has, most of the time, to be babysit by teammates in order to perform on par. Fury uptime is terrible, but lack of Vigor and Stability on demand are the 2 most glaring issues. It’s not alone (Guards needs external Fury too), but it’s probably the profession with biggest “burdening on teammates for offence”.

Still a fun class to play, still effective in right hands, still useful in non organized/speedrun situations, but those issues are quite annoying.

That said would take very little from anet’s part….making a necro skill cleave (read: Dagger auto please) would already improve dramatically the class imo.
Better self or team buffing would be the cherry on top, but considering how powerful is considered already in pvp (which is where we all know Anet do the balance) i fear that’s just a dream.

Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.

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Posted by: Teflondon.6142

Teflondon.6142

The Nec has 3 issues imo:

-mostly single target dmg. While on bosses alone this isn’t much important, it makes clearing trash with usual “stacklosandcleave” extremely uneffective. You can use some other skills to ease the issue (WellofSuffering, Life Transfer, Life Blast if traited, Locus Swarm) but the problem is still there.
-lack of self and team buffing. Self buffing is limited almost only to BloodisPower (which i’ve seen being dropped in some builds), traited Life Blast might stacks and 5sec fury on DS swap. And..that’s it. No more self buffs, no more team buffs. Which leads to…
-a zerker Necro has, most of the time, to be babysit by teammates in order to perform on par. Fury uptime is terrible, but lack of Vigor and Stability on demand are the 2 most glaring issues. It’s not alone (Guards needs external Fury too), but it’s probably the profession with biggest “burdening on teammates for offence”.

Still a fun class to play, still effective in right hands, still useful in non organized/speedrun situations, but those issues are quite annoying.

That said would take very little from anet’s part….making a necro skill cleave (read: Dagger auto please) would already improve dramatically the class imo.
Better self or team buffing would be the cherry on top, but considering how powerful is considered already in pvp (which is where we all know Anet do the balance) i fear that’s just a dream.

Add Axe cleave in there as well and I’m 100% with ya Nothing to add to the above. My necro is my fav character but it’s for the flavor. My other classes simply bring more to the table and easily.

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Posted by: Tentonhammr.7849

Tentonhammr.7849

My zerk necro is my “main” and I love playing the class because its so much fun. But outside of high lvl fractals I struggle to justify bringing him anywhere else where the blind/weakness spam arent as needed and when my guard, war, and Mesmer can do everything else better.

I have 3 characters that are lvl 49+ in fractals, and while the overall utility in FotM is still lacking, there are several instances like like Cliffside, Volcanic, and to a lesser extent Dredge where wells really shine; the lack of cleave is still a glaring issue, but a proper zerk build and a good rotation can make up for it to some extent.

There’s also nothing funnier than trolling the vets in the urban battleground frac with spectral wall and line of warding. You need voip to do it right and make it somewhat helpful instead of just hilarious, but I suggest you guys give it a shot.

Zelendel

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Posted by: Ropechef.6192

Ropechef.6192

Those of us in the necromancer community I am sure have at least heard of him if not seen his vids. " the perfected" … personally I think the guys did a REALLY good job.

that being said I built mine around his Glass cannon necromancer. and I really do enjoy it. Great DPS “uptime” and I hit harder than ohh so many people, (but that’s a whole different topic). You are absolutely right though its lacking in the “team” part of the play. I believe even “Nemisis” (I believe that’s his screen name) agrees that the necromancer is good for many things and can keep up with many things. but LACKS in the team play and “speed kill” environment, He made some good suggestions via his vid log, and I agree with many of them.

Ultimately I think under current “zerk Meta” Necromancer can be a very functioning member of a regular dungeon group. But as something you point at the “bad guy” and say kill it. Self stacking might and stacking vul. does a good job for the necro, but it leaves the rest of the group to try and 4 man the rest of the buffs…. that being said… in most cases. that’s plenty good. barring few exceptions don’t expect to see any speed kills with a necro in party. But you can certainly have one for just running a hard run.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

With a LH ele and embers, necro can be carried buffwise pretty easily. Necro will also have near perma fury on its own. Doesnt help the rest of the team but necro self buffing is actually quite good. Its just selfish.

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Posted by: Ropechef.6192

Ropechef.6192

Yeah that’s kind of the realization,

I can buff myself,

Just not my crew.

But I guess in truth since I don’t see myself running with the big dogs any time soon. and many of the more vocal members of my guild don’t believe in the power of Zerk. shrug

still fun though