Guild Wars 2

Of course they arent needed. But they are very helpful….

Which is why they should be explained better in game.

Obtena.7952:

Jerus.4350:

How’s the air up there on your pedestal?

If you think blasting swiftness/stealth/might/heals is limited to dungeon content… you’re very very mistaken.

It’s definitely more applicable and to be honest, I can’t think of alot of places where those things are needed in open world PVE other than the odd temple event and the big group stuff like Teq. Frankly, I agree with Satenia …. I don’t see much being proposed here above and beyond what the OP suggested, which I feel is not well thought out to begin with. Filling people’s heads with information they don’t need isn’t much better.

Please don’t make me find videos of dungeons done without a dodge key bound. Need is not the discussion, improving play is. If you’re going to sit there and tell me that all a players ability in all elements of the game won’t be improved with proper understanding of combo fields and dodging… well there’s no use ever discussing anything with someone that obtuse.

In fact I think gear in general is unneeded, since I recall seeing a number of naked solos.

Teaching players to equip gear is just filling their heads with “useless information”, so we may as well not bother informing anyone that you can equip items too~

seems like the player base just gets worse every day, made a lfg for p4 and the first person that came in asked me if skip through (That means jumping over boss to miss out on the first 2-3 bosses….Probably even lupi)

The party emptied after I said no……I dont mind having something like one shot, since it is probably a use of position etc….. but having exploits like that is way to bad…..And done waaaay too often.

You cant skip lupi on arah p3 & p4. The end boss wont activate. He just meant skip to lupi.

Where did the big O go? I was enjoying watching people hurl stones into the abyss.

unranked and ranked pvp.
how about unranked and ranked dungeons?

unranked would be as it is currently. ranked would allow inspect of group members, show stats on encounters etc. it would still be possible to make a casual run in ranked, but only if everyone in the group was onboard with it. people leeching and trying to get carried would obviously not last long and had to go to unranked. the total usage of either mode should show clearly what the majority of players want without splitting the playbase any more than the current ‘ping gear etc’ lfgs already do, so there’s no downside in offering this option. personally, I’d still join casual runs mostly but probably ranked, I don’t feel I have to hide my sub-optimal gear and trait choices etc (I made ascended assassins for thief for example because I also use the gear on my ranger who seems to lack crit chance otherwise. might still be bad, but that’s what I got ^^ ), if it’s not good enough, then fine, I don’t mind looking for another group, and if the others don’t care about a slightly bad choice then we have a run where nobody has to blame anyone because we all knew what we were getting into.

Ranked dungeons would be as much a success as amazing fractal leaderboards.

tramwajarz.2369:

Ranked dungeons would be as much a success as amazing fractal leaderboards.

I don’t get your joke/sarcasm. I was talking about something completely different than leaderboards. ranked obviously would be the wrong term, I just used it because pvp already has a casual/elite system in place without ANet fussing about how it splits the playerbase blahblah they often bring as an excuse when some players want something the sjw’s consider is supporting elitism.

I get it. He means it wont ever happen. lol

spoj.9672:

You cant skip lupi on arah p3 & p4. The end boss wont activate. He just meant skip to lupi.

Actually new bug, if you are war, you can skip lupi….Second of all “just meant skip to lupi” that is like 3 bosses skipped, which should be reported as soon as done btw…..

I meant you cant skip lupi because you wont be able to complete the path….

Jerus.4350:

How’s the air up there on your pedestal?

If you think blasting swiftness/stealth/might/heals is limited to dungeon content… you’re very very mistaken. It’s a huge reason D/D Ele is so powerful in PVP being able to stack the might up. Also something you’ll see in WvW both in general WvW in the zerg blasting lightning fields for swiftness to keep on the move as well as blasting water and fire fields before a charge or at a regroup. You’ll also see roamers doing things like that, and even in GvG you’ll often have the pick team stealthing up to get a shot in before they’re revealed. And, it’s not just blasts, a leap in a fire field will give the flame aura which gives you might when hit. Leap in water is a heal. Whirl in Light is condi cleanse. Projectile in smoke is blind.

Ohh and not sure if you’ve done Teq lately, but seems like a lot of people know to might up before the burn phases, I sure see a lot of fire fields and blasts going off.

As for dodging… yeah, it’s the number 1 defensive tool in the game, I can’t even understand how you would think that’s limited to dungeon type content.

Helping someone to understand these basic mechanics of the game would improve their play in almost every element of the game. Jumping puzzles and crafting… maybe some RP would be the exclusions.

The air still smells of all the high horses around here, thank you for asking though.

Why do you even bother to bring PvP and WvW into this? As far as I’m aware, your suggestions were entirely PvE-related (hearts, JP-comparisons, etc.). PvP should have completely separate tutorials on its own, that much I agree with, but it has nothing to do with the actual debate.

Lastly, what is this Teq-talk about now? Are you suggesting that the playerbase does indeed stack might and blasts fire-fields? In the open-world where you have no control over who’s actually on the map? Seems like they are not that bad after all.

Jest aside, I’m absolutely not in disagreement over the helping and tutorial parts, I just felt that the suggestions turned out to be a little one-sided and the overall criticism overly harsh.

Lorgus.6148:

Yeah, would you look at all these dumb dungeon runners thinking silly things like dodging and swiftness matter outside of highly elite dungeon speedruns! Regular players don’t need to know what dodging or combo fields are, because who even needs to dodge in this game anyway?

Protip: Don’t assume that just because you don’t want to learn the oh-so complicated mechanics behind dodging or combos, doesn’t mean others don’t

Don’t know about you, but I learned what a combo field is back in the beta when it happened to pop-up as I was playing. Same goes for dodging, which has a bar that is rather prominently displayed above your health-bar. Don’t need extra hearts or tutorials for it. If you feel that players are not aware of this, I wonder where you got that impression from. I surely cannot share it.

Protip: Don’t assume that just because I’m arguing against this uncalled for denouncing of a large majority of the playerbase, I don’t understand how the mechanisms in question work.

I just icebow 4 and everything dies in 5 seconds. What is this “dodge” that you people speak of?

Can anyone recap what is going on in this thread to me? I’ve tried reading it through and it seems at this point people are arguing about how to instruct new players to be better at the game? How to encourage players to get better? Correct me if I’m wrong.

If that is the case, I don’t think harder content with better rewards is going to motivate people to get better. People will, instead, just go do easy and rewarding things like Silverwastes, earn gold, and then buy any of the nice-to-have’s that “ranked dungeons” or the like would bring. Not that that is a bad thing, but if the goal is to get the average Joe better at the game, there are other things we can do that would help more. Additionally, if you just removed the easy ways to get gold, players would sooner stop playing the game than improve. Some people just aren’t cut out to be among the best, and that’s something we have to accept as okay.

As far as basic instruction goes, I do think the game could use a better tutorial for combo fields / when to CC / etc… Currently there’s no guidance there whatsoever except some level-up note that is hardly helpful (and way too late to matter).

I mentioned PVP/WvW because you were saying that the suggestions only pertained to dungeons/fractals. I mentioned Teq because people rightfully so stack might there, and yes a lot of people do know how to play the game, but even more don’t… that’s the problem we’re talking about, that the game doesn’t immersively teach many of the skills that players would benefit greatly from knowing.

If things sound a bit lopsided towards dungeon type content in the discussion, well, take a look at what subforum you’re in. But, these tools would be used everywhere. I remember when I first played my thief way way back when I was a scrub and using Smokescreen + shortbow to stealth up and sneak through some more heavily populated areas in the open world. It was nice being able to skip through the areas that had killed me a couple times when I had done it on my guard when I leveled him up. I was glad I had looked that up, but this was far from my first MMO so I had that prior knowledge to know when I see something like “combo finisher” that I should look into what it means, and the wiki came in handy. Not all players are coming from other MMOs, or even other RPGs, they won’t think to go to the wiki or do some research, or even some simply wouldn’t be willing. Those are the people this type of in game tutorial would target and help.

What other skills would you say aren’t properly taught or intuitive and would help players?

If I wanted to make a full dungeon training thing, I’d be including using LoS to gather things together. I’d put a focus on skipping as much trash as possible by using tethers. Really driving home the importance of projectile defenses. If I were to do a dungeon tutorial I’d go beyond the basics, which is what I think utilizing the combo system and dodging is for GW2, the basics. It just doesn’t really teach it’s players them very well and expects them to pick it up along the way and many simply don’t.

And I’ve gotten the impression that people don’t know these things from watching players not toss blasts in water/fire/smoke/lightning fields in various areas of the game. And, from having taught many players how to do those things and to be aware of them. And the no dodging, well when you see players just eat easy attacks with orange warning tells, well, you begin to assume they must just not understand something about what’s going on. I see it a lot in Silverwastes for example, but also about half your PUG COE’s it becomes quite clear. Again, there are only really a couple different dodge scenarios. There’s a windup, a tell, a red circle (orange for new ones), and a delayed red circle. That’s pretty much it. Great thing is that the windups and delayed red circles are generally the same timings, so once you learn the timing for one you have pretty much all of them figured out

Dusk, I think it’s just drifted towards wanting to put in some tutorials. Something that had various fields and finishers to use to help you learn, maybe putting in some in game informations to further explain while also letting people experience them with a more guided approach (NPC telling you how to do things).

And I really think a dodge tutorial for those 4 different types of situations would go a long way to help players. Again, having an NPC guide you along, maybe counting down with you on the delayed ones, and maybe a warning “be prepared, ok, he’s going to attack, dodge” for the tells/red circles.

Jerus.4350:

Obtena.7952:

Jerus.4350:

How’s the air up there on your pedestal?

If you think blasting swiftness/stealth/might/heals is limited to dungeon content… you’re very very mistaken.

It’s definitely more applicable and to be honest, I can’t think of alot of places where those things are needed in open world PVE other than the odd temple event and the big group stuff like Teq. Frankly, I agree with Satenia …. I don’t see much being proposed here above and beyond what the OP suggested, which I feel is not well thought out to begin with. Filling people’s heads with information they don’t need isn’t much better.

Please don’t make me find videos of dungeons done without a dodge key bound. Need is not the discussion, improving play is. If you’re going to sit there and tell me that all a players ability in all elements of the game won’t be improved with proper understanding of combo fields and dodging… well there’s no use ever discussing anything with someone that obtuse.

Good, because I’m not. I’m just questioning why anyone but dungeoneers should care about the performance of others, including Anet. Believe it or not, unless you do non-zerg content, you are very immune to the abilities of others in this game.

That being the case, I’m still standing by what I think is necessary … some middle ground on storyline dungeons. People aren’t going to learn dungeon combat fundamentals in open world PVE the way this game is structured.

Even zerg content can fail… ever seen a VW fail? Or Teq even? I have

This isn’t just about dungeons, it’s about the overall playerbase. Especially with the expansion coming and having “challenging group content” that we know won’t be in the form of dungeons/fractals, so pretty highly likely it won’t be select-able instanced content (basically you’ll likely get shoved together with randoms), I think it’d be nice if everyone I got lumped together with knew at least the basics.

How about this for a suggestion:

Introduce a pathing and hint system that costs the player half the reward. While learning to navigate and succeed in PvE content, the player could toggle an instructional mode that provides voice and or text instructions and hints at a cost. If the player toggles the hint mode during the dungeon, display a big, obvious status flag for the player to know that the rewards have been cut on that run.

Once the player understands the dungeon, fractal, or event chain, no more hints will be necessary and the player can play without them for full rewards.

For skills like using fields for combos and their effects, a training ground in the mists that announces the combos in detail is one step, giving Necromancers more combos and at least one aura is another, and adding more depth and breadth of combos requiring more coordination and timing is a third.

The rewards and effects for completing a combo should be more obvious. Other games do it and the combos can get quite complicated. New players learn to combo early on because it affects damage so much and can induce stronger effects. Two, three, four, or more hit combos make the game less grindy, too.

Whoa what is this combo field that you speak of? I give my party 25might just by spamming my GS

I assume the LFG never stated good player only.

Maybe they are just expecting average players to join. And pay 15 silver for the previous work they did.

I’m not sure why OP assumed they are asking for people to carry them. Even if they arn’t good players, base on that LFG, they never said anything they want to be carried.

In fact a bunch of those group when not stated “experienced, melee lupi” are usually compose of first timer. And some of them manage to finish the dungeon just fine(just take very long).

@Obtena I care about the performance of others because those are the people im forced to play with if I want to do open world. When gold pavilion was out I was lucky enough to be in a guild that would go out of their way to organise a map to themselves, we would spend upwards of an hour getting our people in the map because anet in there infinite wisdom decided that players shouldn’t get to choose who they play with. Anyways when everyone from the guild was in the map we’d get gold times reward all day, the event wouldn’t fail, because why should it? it was a year’s old content at that point everyone knew what to do, and everyone was pulling their weight. This also allowed for competition as the guild I was in was competing for a world record with several others, vid if your interested; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSYaMrpL4l0

Now I doubt we’ll ever be able to set up our own instances of maps like silverwastes, until that day open world will always be a joke. I mean they didn’t even put in a basic communication system for things like triple trouble, so its no wonder that vast majority of players didn’t get a kill until certain guilds went out of their way to help pugs kill it. I just don’t see how your okay with the playerbase being utter terrible, if it weren’t for good players most content would be a dead wasteland, and anet would have to repeatedly nerf it until the average player can do it.

With the current systems ingame players aren’t encouraged to contribute, they require little knowledge about the event to get the full reward and there is nothing that sets players apart in terms of skill or motivation, there is no debate and this is an issue that needs to be addressed before HoT, but given this developers past actions, if the ‘challenging content’ turns out to be to difficult for the average player, most won’t do it; they’ll either disband the team responsible for creating the content, nerf the content into a brainless zergfest or pretend it doesn’t exist. It may very well be the challenging content isn’t instanced and instead im forced to play with people I have blocked, people I don’t like, people that don’t contribute and im expected to complete this content. With the playerbase Anet has created I don’t think this will be possible.

I complain about pavilion when it come out too. I dont’ think it’s hard. Just that no one bother to try if they can just hop instance.

I actually really like open worlds events. But unless people are locked into their instance, they won’t bother to try.

Nothing is better than a whole server coming together and try to do a common goal. That is kind of destroyed with instance hoping.

That being said, I think it’s common knowledge GW2 dont’ have instanced raid. So I’m not sure what you are getting at. Anet could possibly add some instanced content through guild mission. But GW2 guilds are in various size, and scaling could become a problem.

Rising Dusk.2408:

If that is the case, I don’t think harder content with better rewards is going to motivate people to get better.

I’d like to politely disagree here. Just look at Dark Souls. If people would not want to get better if the content is forcing them to, noone would play Dark Souls, yet it is one of the most popular games today. The problem of the GuildWars community is that they equate a death with the content is too hard. If you die in GW2, the content isn’t balanced because you’re not used to die in GW2. If people would have the same mindset when playing Dark Souls, this game would’ve never been as popular as it is.
People have to move away from the mindset that the devs didn’t want you to die in this game, that this game has to be beatable without dying. If you look at PvE, this mindset certainly holds true, there is almost nothing you can’t do as level 80 alone.
But when the players don’t die, they wont improve and if they don’t improve, they will fail in dungeons. If they fail in dungeons, they will cry it’s too hard and will abandon dungeons. Now we can all see the results of this. Because dungeons are not fun to complete the 1000th time or are too hard for the ones who have not yet completed dungeons atleast 1000 times, they get abandoned. ANet sees this and abandons dungeons aswell, because obviously, not enough players are playing them.

Rising Dusk.2408:

People will, instead, just go do easy and rewarding things like Silverwastes, earn gold, and then buy any of the nice-to-have’s that “ranked dungeons” or the like would bring.

This is a problem with the economy of the game, namely the reward system and the gemshop. It boils down to the fact that gold is everything you need in this game and because there is no other incentive to do things than to get gold, it is obvious that the average player will do only that what has the best cost-benefit ratio for him.

Most of the bad player base comes on during the weekend. Consistently my pug dungeon runs are at least 20-40% longer. Teq and VW are also harder as people are lazy and don’t WP when they die. Last night I had 2 VW fail back to back because most of the players at South died and didn’t WP. Then they decided to afk while the other lanes carried them only to lose too much siege when they failed again as 80% of the lane was afk.

I’ll admit people have gotten much better at might stacking at Teq. But how long did this take them to figure out lol. I still get some guard light fields tho once and awhile on my fire fields.

Evapor.6849:

@Obtena I care about the performance of others because those are the people im forced to play with if I want to do open world. When gold pavilion was out I was lucky enough to be in a guild that would go out of their way to organise a map to themselves, we would spend upwards of an hour getting our people in the map because anet in there infinite wisdom decided that players shouldn’t get to choose who they play with.

There is your answer to your own problem RIGHT THERE … Be selective with people you want to play with.

Did you even read what he wrote, he said open world.

Obtena.7952:

Evapor.6849:

@Obtena I care about the performance of others because those are the people im forced to play with if I want to do open world. When gold pavilion was out I was lucky enough to be in a guild that would go out of their way to organise a map to themselves, we would spend upwards of an hour getting our people in the map because anet in there infinite wisdom decided that players shouldn’t get to choose who they play with.

There is your answer to your own problem RIGHT THERE … Be selective with people you want to play with.

Ok, now i’m supposed to spend upwards of an hour grouping people into a map, having no way to kick randoms out of it. Yeah, great idea. Not sure if your just trolling at this point.

fishball.7204:

Did you even read what he wrote, he said open world.

Yes he did … what are you implying? People can’t organize for open world content? It happens all the time.

Evapor.6849:

Obtena.7952:

Evapor.6849:

@Obtena I care about the performance of others because those are the people im forced to play with if I want to do open world. When gold pavilion was out I was lucky enough to be in a guild that would go out of their way to organise a map to themselves, we would spend upwards of an hour getting our people in the map because anet in there infinite wisdom decided that players shouldn’t get to choose who they play with.

There is your answer to your own problem RIGHT THERE … Be selective with people you want to play with.

Ok, now i’m supposed to spend upwards of an hour grouping people into a map, having no way to kick randoms out of it. Yeah, great idea. Not sure if your just trolling at this point.

Pretty much. If you what to play exclusively, you have to go out of your way to do so. It can be done. It’s not trolling, it’s just another example where you are failing to recognize the kind of game Anet wants GW2 to be.

Obtuse.

spoj.9672:

Obtuse.

Not recognizing what market the game caters too? I agree.

Oh look, it’s Obtena again.
Will we rot in his holy flames of celestial healing condition guardians?

i’m telling ya. It’s an abyss. A flaming abyss. Where any rational argument can get thrown into so as never to see the light of day again.

Is the show still going on? I’ll break out the popcorn if it is.

Wuselknusel.4082:

I’d like to politely disagree here. Just look at Dark Souls. If people would not want to get better if the content is forcing them to, noone would play Dark Souls, yet it is one of the most popular games today. The problem of the GuildWars community is that they equate a death with the content is too hard. If you die in GW2, the content isn’t balanced because you’re not used to die in GW2. If people would have the same mindset when playing Dark Souls, this game would’ve never been as popular as it is.
People have to move away from the mindset that the devs didn’t want you to die in this game, that this game has to be beatable without dying. If you look at PvE, this mindset certainly holds true, there is almost nothing you can’t do as level 80 alone.
But when the players don’t die, they wont improve and if they don’t improve, they will fail in dungeons. If they fail in dungeons, they will cry it’s too hard and will abandon dungeons. Now we can all see the results of this. Because dungeons are not fun to complete the 1000th time or are too hard for the ones who have not yet completed dungeons atleast 1000 times, they get abandoned. ANet sees this and abandons dungeons aswell, because obviously, not enough players are playing them.

I don’t disagree with you, but that’s because the two games have attracted polar opposite crowds that sustain them. The largest portion of GW2’s playerbase is unskilled, and bad at even the very easy content we have now. The number of people I’ve seen playing for months who die multiple times to predictable mob attacks is pretty astonishing. That isn’t to say that the hardcore community doesn’t exist (it certainly does), though. Either way, I am confident we’ll see at least some measure of end-game content that will be reasonably difficult with HoT… Although I don’t foresee that taking the form of a dungeon.

I also don’t think the issue is that players don’t do dungeons, it’s that players don’t enjoy dungeons. You see no threads about how exciting certain dungeon content is, and you didn’t even back when they first came out. Then they tried their hand at a dungeon path and a vast majority of players hated it (not to mention they removed a path at the same time….). At this point they’ve really stepped back and are attempting to get it right with HoT. We’ll have to wait and hear more before we know for sure what their angle is, but color me an optimist because I think they’ll get it right (or right enough).

J Eberle.9312:

Where did the big O go? I was enjoying watching people hurl stones into the abyss.

I enjoyed myself for a few posts, but then I only felt even more miserable. A waste.

J Eberle.9312:

i’m telling ya. It’s an abyss. A flaming abyss. Where any rational argument can get thrown into so as never to see the light of day again.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I don’t disagree with you, but that’s because the two games have attracted polar opposite crowds that sustain them. The largest portion of GW2’s playerbase is unskilled, and bad at even the very easy content we have now. The number of people I’ve seen playing for months who die multiple times to predictable mob attacks is pretty astonishing. That isn’t to say that the hardcore community doesn’t exist (it certainly does), though. Either way, I am confident we’ll see at least some measure of end-game content that will be reasonably difficult with HoT… Although I don’t foresee that taking the form of a dungeon.

I can’t and wont believe that most players currently playing the game would abandon it if it becomes more challenging. Because that would mean that we can burry the idea of challenging content outside of some small dungeon-like instances once and for all.
And that’s not a direction I want the game to be heading towards.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I also don’t think the issue is that players don’t do dungeons, it’s that players don’t enjoy dungeons. You see no threads about how exciting certain dungeon content is, and you didn’t even back when they first came out. Then they tried their hand at a dungeon path and a vast majority of players hated it (not to mention they removed a path at the same time….). At this point they’ve really stepped back and are attempting to get it right with HoT. We’ll have to wait and hear more before we know for sure what their angle is, but color me an optimist because I think they’ll get it right (or right enough).

I’ve included the lacking fun in dungeons out of personal perception because I thougt that boiling down all the reasons why people don’t play dungeons to the people aren’t good enough would sound hyperbole. I for one have completed the dungeons often enough to be bored of it. Some could argue that I then should try to duo/solo dungeons, but that never appealed to me anyways. And now I’m aking myself how to get the gold required to get all the fun stuff in this utterly broken economy the game has.

What’s broken about the economy? You can get nearly every item in the game (including cash shop skins) for its player determined market value.

Yeah, not sure on that comment, GW2 is the best MMO economy I’ve seen in a long time. They bleed enough gold out of the economy that things truly aren’t so overpriced that you can’t just earn your gold. And the TP is a great system that allows for easy sales of items to earn extra money that way. When you can pump out anywhere from 25-50g in a day without too much difficulty just from playing I find it hard to complain. Sure you can do better with TP flipping but unlike other games, you aren’t required to do it…economy is great here.

The thing that is broken in GW2’s economy is the gold standard which has multiple causes and impacts.

huh?

/15charssssssss

I don’t want to repeat the details about this, since this has been discussed in other threads multiple times, but the fact that you just have to get gold to get nearly everything in this game is simply not fun and creates the inclination to farm gold most effeciently, e. g. doing 5% of the activities the game offers and ignoring the other 95% of the game.

Wuselknusel.4082:

I don’t want to repeat the details about this, since this has been discussed in other threads multiple times, but the fact that you just have to get gold to get nearly everything in this game is simply not fun and creates the inclination to farm gold most effeciently, e. g. doing 5% of the activities the game offers and ignoring the other 95% of the game.

Agreed but the reason they don’t do that is because those exact same people who can’t make money would be the ones who cry when the only way to get X armor set is by completing Y content.

Saint.5647:

Wuselknusel.4082:

I don’t want to repeat the details about this, since this has been discussed in other threads multiple times, but the fact that you just have to get gold to get nearly everything in this game is simply not fun and creates the inclination to farm gold most effeciently, e. g. doing 5% of the activities the game offers and ignoring the other 95% of the game.

Agreed but the reason they don’t do that is because those exact same people who can’t make money would be the ones who cry when the only way to get X armor set is by completing Y content.

That’s why I have very little hope that this game will become what I imagined it to be at first.

Agreed again. Honestly, the best thing I found one can do is just forget about it. I spent 2 hours mindlessly killing Hyleks for AP yesterday and it wasn’t any more or less fun than SW or running dungeons.

I enjoyed talking with friends on TS while doing that. Anything in game is a backdrop for the social interactions at this point for me. If HoT is good, that’s excellent. If it isn’t and the same problems persist, it’ll just be another backdrop.

I’ve paid more money for things I’ve enjoyed less so I don’t really regret this game in any way. It has potential and I hope it lives up to it.

Saint.5647:

Agreed again. Honestly, the best thing I found one can do is just forget about it. I spent 2 hours mindlessly killing Hyleks for AP yesterday and it wasn’t any more or less fun than SW or running dungeons.

I enjoyed talking with friends on TS while doing that. Anything in game is a backdrop for the social interactions at this point for me. If HoT is good, that’s excellent. If it isn’t and the same problems persist, it’ll just be another backdrop.

I’ve paid more money for things I’ve enjoyed less so I don’t really regret this game in any way. It has potential and I hope it lives up to it.

I can fully agree with the last paragraph, the first one… not as much, second one, yeah when I’m on TS drinking the gaming is easily second fiddle to the reason I’m on, but I don’t get on any TS much anymore.

The social aspect of the game is the only thing that keeps me on really. That and redoing the same dungeon paths we’ve had since launch :>

Haha well, Hylek genocide isn’t for everyone. I understand that. That said, you can reach out if you wanna play or chat. My friends and I always have a fun time in game. The banter really makes it.

It’s also fun seeing the ugly armor combinations people make! Norn Warrior with green CoF Armor + Holographic Wings O_o