Guild Wars 2

No new redo’s. AC’s redo is still bad. I can name like, 3 good PATHS in the game.

Best gold farm is dungeons but I can’t bring myself to do it cause they’re terrible.

For the first dungeon in the game, I think AC is in a pretty good place. I still think Kohler should be mandatory, though.

Derek.9021:

No new wvw tourneys! Last tourney was still bad. I can name like, 3 good servers in the game.

Best bag farm is zergs but I can’t bring myself to do it cause they’re terrible.

See how easy it is to complain about something that others enjoy? Opinions are opinions. Unless you have something to offer, like, a suggestion to make them better… why post?

I do dungeons every day. I do enjoy it. But the OP is right in the sense that nothing has changed. We have bugs that have been around since launch. You CANNOT defend that dungeons have been rejected by Anet. We SHOULD have had a new dungeon. Sure, we have Aetherpath, but I can’t even find people to do that.

Fractals is fun but the rewards are still kittened.

Rising Dusk.2408:

For the first dungeon in the game, I think AC is in a pretty good place. I still think Kohler should be mandatory, though.

AC is so boring, esp the path where you have to wait for that ghost machine to fill up and the skelks. Why do I have to afk in a dungeon?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Derek.9021:

No new wvw tourneys! Last tourney was still bad. I can name like, 3 good servers in the game.

Best bag farm is zergs but I can’t bring myself to do it cause they’re terrible.

See how easy it is to complain about something that others enjoy? Opinions are opinions. Unless you have something to offer, like, a suggestion to make them better… why post?

of course it’s my opinion, what else would it be? and my opinion is that they’re awful and anet is neglecting them. This is coming from someone who’s past 15k AP and got to level 50 fractal level to farm but the rewards are garbage.

Derek.9021:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Derek.9021:

No new wvw tourneys! Last tourney was still bad. I can name like, 3 good servers in the game.

Best bag farm is zergs but I can’t bring myself to do it cause they’re terrible.

See how easy it is to complain about something that others enjoy? Opinions are opinions. Unless you have something to offer, like, a suggestion to make them better… why post?

of course it’s my opinion, what else would it be? and my opinion is that they’re awful and anet is neglecting them. This is coming from someone who’s past 15k AP and got to level 50 fractal level to farm but the rewards are garbage.

Then you should know by now that Anet has orphaned dungeons and fractals (and WvW and guild missions and everything not LS).

yeah. and I’m sure we’ll get a dungeon with the LS at some point. but that’ll probably leave us with one good dungeon and a whole bunch of bad

I don’t want dungeons, I want variants of the volcano fractal.

Volcano fractal with skritts
Volcano fractal in blue
Volcano fractal in winter
Volcano fractal by night
Volcano fractal all the way

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

I don’t want dungeons, I want variants of the volcano fractal.

Volcano fractal with skritts
Volcano fractal in blue
Volcano fractal in winter
Volcano fractal by night
Volcano fractal all the way

You’d probably get a desert-volcano or a jungle-volcano.

The OP is right though, the dungeons are terrible. How would I make them better? Well, putting something in them other than corridors would be a start.

Long boring corridors filled with monsters…. ugh…

Can I pls have new dungeons? Dungeons atm are fine, just bored from doing them over and over :P

What kind of path do you consider “good”? One that is super easy and fast? One that is challenging? One that is interesting and fun?

For me, an interesting dungeon contains height differences. It’s bizarre how many of GW2’s dungeons seem to constantly move at almost the same height.

I’d also welcome intersections. It’s very dull when a dungeon is basically just one long corridor that only moves forward. Good dungeons make you move back and forth, and get maximum usage out of the rooms and corridors.

There are very few vertical sections. Dungeons don’t all have to move horizontally. You can have a climbing section too (the cliffside fractal is a rare exception).

Some simple mechanisms (switches, levers, pressure plates, doors) would also mix things up a little. I’m not talking complex puzzles here. But some simple mechanics, like in the Thaumanova fractal, help to mix things up.

Some different terrain is also welcome. A short swimming section, or a gap you have to jump over. I’m not talking implementing jumping puzzles in them, but we do have a jump button. So having some simple obstacle that requires a jump would be welcome every now and then.

And while we are on that subject, it would be nice if we were allowed to use a height advantage. Why do enemies always have to turn invulnerable when the players attack them from a height advantage? It’s dumb. DnD Online never did that. If you have a height advantage, good for you, the monsters lose (unless they have ranged weapons too).

But perhaps most importantly, I like it when encounters offer multiple approaches. Why do rooms in dungeons always have one entrance and one exit? Why can’t we have an alternate approach method, such as a catwalk, or an underwater passage? I like to see an encounter, where I have multiple choices (choices other than run forward and kill).

The dungeons are fine. We just need new ones.

However many of the current dungeons could be improved drastically if they followed the same design as AC story mode. Open map and choice of which objective to clear in whatever order. You could also combine paths by making dungeons like this.

spoj.9672:

The dungeons are fine. We just need new ones.

However many of the current dungeons could be improved drastically if they followed the same design as AC story mode. Open map and choice of which objective to clear in whatever order. You could also combine paths by making dungeons like this.

Basically this~

spoj.9672:

The dungeons are fine. We just need new ones.

I disagree completely. Compared to other games (including GW1) the dungeons are terribly dull. There are several fundamental things wrong with the current dungeons in the game:

-Height variety
-Traps
-Puzzles (even of the very simple kind, lever + door)
-Enemy variety and good mob design
-Branching paths

spoj.9672:

However many of the current dungeons could be improved drastically if they followed the same design as AC story mode. Open map and choice of which objective to clear in whatever order. You could also combine paths by making dungeons like this.

I think one of the things they could definitely do, is to remove the idea of fixed paths completely. A dungeon like AC would be a lot more interesting, if all paths were combined into one, and we picked our own objectives. I don’t think AC in it’s current implementation is a very good example of how other dungeons should be designed. For one, the lay out is incredibly linear and without diversity. I do think they definitely improved some of the boss mechanics a bit (I like the ghost busting mechanics for example). But I would like to see a lot more changed.

AC story is hardly linear. Its the one path in the entire game that gives you plenty of choice in both objective completion order and route.

The dungeons are fine. They are dull because they are old and very simplistic. But they arent that bad. They were fun in the beginning and the paths people play less often are actually a refreshing change every once in a while. Linear dungeons arent always a bad thing.

I dont see the point in anet wasting resources reworking them. If they were to fix them, they would be completely new so we may aswell of just gotten new dungeons instead. I dont want to lose content just because its old and linear. Just give us new stuff and make it non linear. And keep the old stuff. Also bring back TAFU please!

It’s pretty good for launch content.
That said, launch content’s never all that great in the grand scheme of things.

I kind of think a horizontal progression model needs to be putting more thought into making dungeons a product that can pivot.

Even if they adopt a policy of iteration, dungeons are still this heavy thudding weight they’d have to strain to lug around with each new programming tool/outlook on design or let lapse into being mechanically anachronous. The whole path structure could stand to streamline and cut out some dead weight, plus there’s some real room for improvement. Like, the original proposition for randomized events could be serving as a great mechanism to phase content in and out, if it was more fully realized than a ‘sometimes there’s a troll’.

Derek.9021:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Derek.9021:

No new wvw tourneys! Last tourney was still bad. I can name like, 3 good servers in the game.

Best bag farm is zergs but I can’t bring myself to do it cause they’re terrible.

See how easy it is to complain about something that others enjoy? Opinions are opinions. Unless you have something to offer, like, a suggestion to make them better… why post?

of course it’s my opinion, what else would it be? and my opinion is that they’re awful and anet is neglecting them. This is coming from someone who’s past 15k AP and got to level 50 fractal level to farm but the rewards are garbage.

You sound like someone who is pretty much done with the game…

I agree there is a lot of room for improvement in the dungeon area but I also agree with Lilith. If you have a problem with something, narrow it down; and be specific about it: I think dungeons are terrible because X and Y are bad and I’d rather see Z instead. It will still be your opinion but at least it would be a formed opinion and not just a random rant.

Mesket.5728:

Derek.9021:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Derek.9021:

No new wvw tourneys! Last tourney was still bad. I can name like, 3 good servers in the game.

Best bag farm is zergs but I can’t bring myself to do it cause they’re terrible.

See how easy it is to complain about something that others enjoy? Opinions are opinions. Unless you have something to offer, like, a suggestion to make them better… why post?

of course it’s my opinion, what else would it be? and my opinion is that they’re awful and anet is neglecting them. This is coming from someone who’s past 15k AP and got to level 50 fractal level to farm but the rewards are garbage.

You sound like someone who is pretty much done with the game…

I agree there is a lot of room for improvement in the dungeon area but I also agree with Lilith. If you have a problem with something, narrow it down; and be specific about it: I think dungeons are terrible because X and Y are bad and I’d rather see Z instead. It will still be your opinion but at least it would be a formed opinion and not just a random rant.

Exactement.

Mesket.5728:

Derek.9021:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Derek.9021:

No new wvw tourneys! Last tourney was still bad. I can name like, 3 good servers in the game.

Best bag farm is zergs but I can’t bring myself to do it cause they’re terrible.

See how easy it is to complain about something that others enjoy? Opinions are opinions. Unless you have something to offer, like, a suggestion to make them better… why post?

of course it’s my opinion, what else would it be? and my opinion is that they’re awful and anet is neglecting them. This is coming from someone who’s past 15k AP and got to level 50 fractal level to farm but the rewards are garbage.

You sound like someone who is pretty much done with the game…

I agree there is a lot of room for improvement in the dungeon area but I also agree with Lilith. If you have a problem with something, narrow it down; and be specific about it: I think dungeons are terrible because X and Y are bad and I’d rather see Z instead. It will still be your opinion but at least it would be a formed opinion and not just a random rant.

I agree. I think the dungeons could be better sure, but they are not all that bad for those who actually like running dungeons.. Most of this threads happen because after 2 years without pretty much any change in this aspect of the game, the players get a little bored, having to run the same dungeons every day.. After a while it becomes a routine if you know what i mean.
I have no idea if they will actually give us a new dungeon in this LS since they still don’t have a dungeon team as far as I know.. But if they put some effort into it wouldn’t it be good if we could actually get a little involved in the development of a new dungeon? Someone from Anet came to this forum and said: Ok guys, give us ideas for a new dungeon, you think of bosses, fights, scenarios, etc.. We will take these ideas and put them to use..
Or they could get GW1 team back…

I still enjoy the crap out of running arah every day, multiple times a day.

“You sound like someone who is pretty much done with the game… "

No! I know I sound bitter but I honestly love every other game mode in gw2 (spvp,wvw,ls,ect). I go on like month long binges of focusing on one type of content along with completing living story when it comes out.

Whenever I want to do dungeons I remember how bad they are and I get mad that I can’t really do that kind of content in an mmo because they’re so bad in gw2.

Have you tried soloing dungeons? That adds to the spice of things.

I doubt the current dungeons will change. I don’t like them, because they have never the right difficulty:
- for a new player, they are ridiculously difficult
- for an experienced player, they are not challenging (I don’t want additional difficulty, an experienced player simply misses something interesting in the fights)

Most of them are too short. They seem long because of long static (and boring) boss fights, but the dungeon area is in fact very small. Not much to see. I remember 5 level deep dungeons in GW1 – that was fun! You killed huge quantities of trash mobs on your way instead of single legendary bosses that consumes half of your dungeon time. Take the boss away, and your dungeon time is only 5 minutes.

Derek.9021:

“You sound like someone who is pretty much done with the game… "

No! I know I sound bitter but I honestly love every other game mode in gw2 (spvp,wvw,ls,ect). I go on like month long binges of focusing on one type of content along with completing living story when it comes out.

Whenever I want to do dungeons I remember how bad they are and I get mad that I can’t really do that kind of content in an mmo because they’re so bad in gw2.

I feel that way about the PVP in this game with the downed state and the terrible handling of conditions(IMO). But I don’t go to the WvW/PVP forums and make threads about how terrible those areas of the game are, and when I do comment on it I at least try to give a reason to support my opinion. IE I don’t like downed state because when you fight uneven numbers you can get someone down and watch their teammate pick them back up before you can finish them off. I feel it’s poor design to give further advantages to the team that already has the natural advantage of numbers.

Personally I like dungeons because while they’re relatively easy, it’s about doing things right to win, screw up and you die. Which to me is a perfect level of challenge. That combined with the quick nature of most of them makes it so I can get home pound out a couple and I’m not hooked for too long which is a nice relief from the games I used to play where we had 3-4 hours of raiding on nights and if something came up you’d be screwing your team if you had to leave in 10 minutes or something like that, dungeons give me plenty of times to hop out of the tour for whatever reason. If I get burnt out on them I start a new alt, do map completion, hit LS, or whatever.

Personally I very much agree with spoj though, new dungeons would be great, with more options on how to approach it.

Silmar Alech.4305:

I doubt the current dungeons will change. I don’t like them, because they have never the right difficulty:
- for a new player, they are ridiculously difficult
- for an experienced player, they are not challenging (I don’t want additional difficulty, an experienced player simply misses something interesting in the fights)

Most of them are too short. They seem long because of long static (and boring) boss fights, but the dungeon area is in fact very small. Not much to see. I remember 5 level deep dungeons in GW1 – that was fun! You killed huge quantities of trash mobs on your way instead of single legendary bosses that consumes half of your dungeon time. Take the boss away, and your dungeon time is only 5 minutes.

^This I feel completly the same

Silmar Alech.4305:

I doubt the current dungeons will change. I don’t like them, because they have never the right difficulty:
- for a new player, they are ridiculously difficult
- for an experienced player, they are not challenging (I don’t want additional difficulty, an experienced player simply misses something interesting in the fights)

Most of them are too short. They seem long because of long static (and boring) boss fights, but the dungeon area is in fact very small. Not much to see. I remember 5 level deep dungeons in GW1 – that was fun! You killed huge quantities of trash mobs on your way instead of single legendary bosses that consumes half of your dungeon time. Take the boss away, and your dungeon time is only 5 minutes.

I agree that the current dungeons will not change. They’re a solid difficulty level, as they can be done by level appropriate players, i.e. AC @ 30, exp 35. It’s quite a bit more difficult, yes, but they can be done. As for the “experienced player”, I would really suggest coming to Arah. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen 9k AP players dead on the floor during a skip or Lupi, or trash mobs (Hell, I even have trouble w/ those things sometimes.) I would suggest stepping outside of your comfort zone in these dungeons. If a certain dungeon isn’t challenging anymore w/ 5 players, do it w/ 4. Then 3. Then duo it. Then solo. This will keep the dungeon fresh and make you a better player.

As for the second part of your comment, it sounds like you should put up a “no skipping” LFG, or join PASS. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you want to kill a bunch of trash mobs. I never played GW1, but it seems to me that the rewards in this game just aren’t good enough to do that. If that’s what you want to do however, all the power to you.

After two years, THIS is what to expect from GW2 dungeons. It’s obvious there won’t be multiple difficulty tiers for a long time, if at all. Complaining is complaining though and we should all know by know how to give feedback; this isn’kitten If we are disappointed in dungeon concept, then just write it off because for it to change would be a monumental effort.

You’re right Ivan, but for example I don’t really enjoy soloing / duo dungeons allthough it becomes more difficult. I just didn’t buy Gw2 to play alone, on the contrary, I actually only like to play in a group.

The trashmobs in Gw1 are very different compared to trash in Gw2. Even the trash there was sometimes more challenging than most bosses of Gw2. Further most of the “trash” had to be killed because it was part of an event in the dungeon.

I think it’s a bit hasty to throw in the towel on an entire gamemode just yet.

It’s not like Everquest still has once-a-week non-instanced world bosses or WoW still has 40 man raids. It was a good few years before those games really mustered up the courage to take a hard look at their respective grouping systems. So, it’s not at all unusual that you haven’t seen any meaningful progress this soon.

That said, I totally empathize with the antsy impatient feeling.

What I would like to see, is dungeons in which you actually have to do stuff, instead of walking through bloody corridors. In Dungeons and Dragons Online, they had dungeons where one player had to switch off a bunch of deadly underwater traps, by swimming through a gauntlet of bladed fans, to reach a lever on the other side. GW2’s dungeons lack any sense of cooperative challenges. Oh sure, there’s the occasional destroy X amounts of burrows before this or that npc dies. But what about levers and mechanisms? Remember just about every other rpg out there, that has dungeons with things in them? Where are the pressure plates, the doors, the traps? Why don’t we search for keys, or have any sort of platforming in the dungeons? It’s just a bunch of corridors, corridors, and more corridors. Boring!

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What I would like to see, is dungeons in which you actually have to do stuff, instead of walking through bloody corridors. In Dungeons and Dragons Online, they had dungeons where one player had to switch off a bunch of deadly underwater traps, by swimming through a gauntlet of bladed fans, to reach a lever on the other side. GW2’s dungeons lack any sense of cooperative challenges. Oh sure, there’s the occasional destroy X amounts of burrows before this or that npc dies. But what about levers and mechanisms? Remember just about every other rpg out there, that has dungeons with things in them? Where are the pressure plates, the doors, the traps? Why don’t we search for keys, or have any sort of platforming in the dungeons? It’s just a bunch of corridors, corridors, and more corridors. Boring!

COF3 is like that, and its Always empty.
Having stuff that needs 4-5 coordinated players to complete, cuts 99% pugs out of the playerbase.

Subjective. The less platforming there is in dungeons the better they are for me. Especially if it involves multiple people acting at the same time. Physically impossible to do alone things annoy me.

And it’s not the easiest task to design a trap/puzzle that doesn’t get repetetive. Since we run same dungeon paths many times same puzzle with same solution will become a rudiment, while a puzzle with changing solutions or a puzzle requiring reaction is way too much of an abstract thing to judge.

I’d personally have another boss.

spoj.9672:

The dungeons are fine. We just need new ones.

However many of the current dungeons could be improved drastically if they followed the same design as AC story mode. Open map and choice of which objective to clear in whatever order. You could also combine paths by making dungeons like this.

Ow, something like “Path123” where the 3 explorables are active at the same time?

LordByron.8369:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What I would like to see, is dungeons in which you actually have to do stuff, instead of walking through bloody corridors. In Dungeons and Dragons Online, they had dungeons where one player had to switch off a bunch of deadly underwater traps, by swimming through a gauntlet of bladed fans, to reach a lever on the other side. GW2’s dungeons lack any sense of cooperative challenges. Oh sure, there’s the occasional destroy X amounts of burrows before this or that npc dies. But what about levers and mechanisms? Remember just about every other rpg out there, that has dungeons with things in them? Where are the pressure plates, the doors, the traps? Why don’t we search for keys, or have any sort of platforming in the dungeons? It’s just a bunch of corridors, corridors, and more corridors. Boring!

COF3 is like that, and its Always empty.
Having stuff that needs 4-5 coordinated players to complete, cuts 99% pugs out of the playerbase.

I have done CoF P3 twice and both times I thought it was fun as hell and made the other two paths seem like trash. The only problem with it is that the reward is the exact same so it doesn’t compensate you for your time spent well.

OP totally agree with you!

Miku Lawrence.6329:

spoj.9672:

The dungeons are fine. We just need new ones.

However many of the current dungeons could be improved drastically if they followed the same design as AC story mode. Open map and choice of which objective to clear in whatever order. You could also combine paths by making dungeons like this.

Ow, something like “Path123” where the 3 explorables are active at the same time?

Yeah pretty much. You would get rewards based on the bosses and objectives you clear. If you have limited time you can just clear the most rewarding objectives and leave. Or you can split and do them all. Its basically like UW, FoW. Gives a lot more freedom to the players.

Purple Miku.7032:

LordByron.8369:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What I would like to see, is dungeons in which you actually have to do stuff, instead of walking through bloody corridors. In Dungeons and Dragons Online, they had dungeons where one player had to switch off a bunch of deadly underwater traps, by swimming through a gauntlet of bladed fans, to reach a lever on the other side. GW2’s dungeons lack any sense of cooperative challenges. Oh sure, there’s the occasional destroy X amounts of burrows before this or that npc dies. But what about levers and mechanisms? Remember just about every other rpg out there, that has dungeons with things in them? Where are the pressure plates, the doors, the traps? Why don’t we search for keys, or have any sort of platforming in the dungeons? It’s just a bunch of corridors, corridors, and more corridors. Boring!

COF3 is like that, and its Always empty.
Having stuff that needs 4-5 coordinated players to complete, cuts 99% pugs out of the playerbase.

I have done CoF P3 twice and both times I thought it was fun as hell and made the other two paths seem like trash. The only problem with it is that the reward is the exact same so it doesn’t compensate you for your time spent well.

Path 3 rewards are fine. It is faster than path 2 in an organized group. And while both paths have time gated event atleast in P3 the mobs drop decent loot unlike in p2.

TKiller.6829:

Subjective. The less platforming there is in dungeons the better they are for me. Especially if it involves multiple people acting at the same time. Physically impossible to do alone things annoy me.

Keep in mind that there are many kinds of platforming challenges. It’s not like the only options are “flat corridor” or “agonizing jumping puzzle”. There are in between difficulties. It could be something really simple.

Difficulty is kinda irrelevant here. My single/multiple solutions or reactionary puzzle points still stand.

TKiller.6829:

Difficulty is kinda irrelevant here. My single/multiple solutions or reactionary puzzle points still stand.

So you’re saying that you’d rather have a completely flat corridor, than a corridor that features a simple ledge you have to jump on to?

What i want, is the chance to compensate for other player lack of experience (for any player).

And mechanics that needs all 5 players to do their job flawlessly are a hinderance to a mmorpg.

That is why people hates some dungeon paths.

LordByron.8369:

What i want, is the chance to compensate for other player lack of experience.

And mechanics that needs all 5 players to do their job flawlessly are a hinderance to a mmorpg.

That is why people hates some dungeon paths.

I agree. I’d rather have options. For example, imagine a scenario where the players have to open a gate. There could be a lever to open the gate, hidden on the other side of a deadly trap. A skilled player may be able to dodge his way through the trap, and pull the lever. However, maybe there’s another option to fight your way through some baddies and deactivate the trap first. OR, maybe with some clever platforming, or clever use of stealth, players can bypass the enemies completely, and deactivate the trap that way.

Another thing I’d like to see, is something to discourage speed-running the dungeons. Not by making it impossible, but by including more treasure chests in the dungeons, that encourage the players to explore rather than skip most of the dungeon.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

TKiller.6829:

Difficulty is kinda irrelevant here. My single/multiple solutions or reactionary puzzle points still stand.

So you’re saying that you’d rather have a completely flat corridor, than a corridor that features a simple ledge you have to jump on to?

Taking it to extremes here.

Basically yes.

I’d prefer there was another boss on the way rather than a series of jumps/triggers or something.

With bosses you check its current action, compare it to known states of the boss, check state of your party and have a variety of counteractions to that: move, use one of your relevant combat skills, let’s say 6-10 depending on class, weapon sets, party specifics and boss design and evade. You could add jump to this if we follow some of the late boss designs (shockwaves, etc). Pickup kits might be or might be not present to perform some unique action that counters X state of the boss.

A puzzle can involve movement, which might involve swiftness and class movement skills depending on design. Checking states of objects, interacting with objects with or without picking options, using pickup items to interact with objects in unique way.

What I’m leading this to, is that this is a combat-oriented game. Designing an encounter reliant on combat skills will be more interesting that an encounter reliant exclusively on movement skills and interactions with objects due to a larger amount of possible action-counteraction sequences in first and more variables involved as well.

The more unique interacting skills you add to the puzzle the less your combat class become relevant which is in my opinion bad design. The more conditions requiring you to use combat skills you add to a puzzle the more it becomes unclear why didnt you just use the ideas to design a boss rather than a puzzle.

If anything, an encounter could be a hybrid, like the last boss of Underground facility. But it’s not always clear where to draw a line where interacting with environmental equipment becomes an annoying distraction from combat rather thana logical step.

A series of jumps becomes redundant once the fastest route is learned. A puzzle with a unique generated solution each time is way too much of an adstraction to judge if it’s going to become a hassle during repeated runs or a fun change of activity in each specific design.

Bosses do grow obsolete as well, and least resistance/fastest ways of clearing become known. But there still are more variables involved between runs, such as individual combat stats, amount of players and their classes.

Platforming will be replayed by less players than combat.

So yes, I’d rather have a pretty corridor of bosses and minions between them whether it’s narrow or wiggly. It’s a safer bet that we’ll recieve something pleasant to replay this way.

Could make… Honor of the Waves more enticing! … By copypasting from AC cause it’s the best dungeon. <- This is what you get from “dungeon fixing”.

More permanent dungeons pls!

TKiller.6829:

I’d prefer there was another boss on the way rather than a series of jumps/triggers or something.

A proper dungeon generally is a mix of all those things. If it’s just a long corridor with enemies, it becomes rather dull as well. A good example is the Keeper’s Sanctum jumping puzzle, which is basically a mini dungeon with some platforming, some enemies, and a boss at the end.

TKiller.6829:

A puzzle can involve movement, which might involve swiftness and class movement skills depending on design. Checking states of objects, interacting with objects with or without picking options, using pickup items to interact with objects in unique way.

What I’m leading this to, is that this is a combat-oriented game. Designing an encounter reliant on combat skills will be more interesting that an encounter reliant exclusively on movement skills and interactions with objects due to a larger amount of possible action-counteraction sequences in first and more variables involved as well.

It’s odd that you would say that, since GW2 has a terribly dull combat system, and a rather flexible movement system (swimming, jumping, rolling). Any series of sequential combat encounters are quickly going to get very boring indeed. You do need to mix up the combat with bits of none-combat.

TKiller.6829:

The more unique interacting skills you add to the puzzle the less your combat class become relevant which is in my opinion bad design.

I’m not exactly sure what you mean with “unique interacting skills”. But every class is more than just a combat class. All classes have utility skills that provide some form of movement. Be it a mesmer’s portal skill, or a warrior’s leap skill. Providing encounters that are not just combat encounters, does not render your character useless.

TKiller.6829:

The more conditions requiring you to use combat skills you add to a puzzle the more it becomes unclear why didnt you just use the ideas to design a boss rather than a puzzle.

That seems rather closed minded in my opinion. If level designers find a clever way to utilize the skills in the game for something other than combat, kudos to them for doing so. It’s the implementation that determines if it’s good or bad design. For example, fetching the cooling rods in the Thauma Nova Fractal is a good example of mixing combat with a puzzle, and with multiple tasks.

A bad example would be the deflecting of the rockets in Caudecus Manor, where it just turns into an annoying gimmick with a bundle item.

TKiller.6829:

If anything, an encounter could be a hybrid, like the last boss of Underground facility. But it’s not always clear where to draw a line where interacting with environmental equipment becomes an annoying distraction from combat rather than a logical step.

It depends on the environmental equipment. I’m highly in favor of switches, levers and pressure plates. You know, the classic stuff, because it works. I’m less in favor of all the gimmicky bundle items that have barely working mechanics, and basically replace your whole skill bar.

TKiller.6829:

A series of jumps becomes redundant once the fastest route is learned.

That seems absurd to me. If that were the case, you might as well remove the entire backdrop of a dungeon, and make it one long blank corridor with enemies.

Jumping, rolling and yes, even swimming, adds much needed variety to any dungeon. What the designers need to learn, is how to implement these things, without alienating certain groups of players by making the mechanics too punishing. For example, the Cliffside Fractal was just on the border regarding what is acceptable platforming wise… perhaps even leaning a little bit over the border.

TKiller.6829:

A puzzle with a unique generated solution each time is way too much of an abstraction to judge if it’s going to become a hassle during repeated runs or a fun change of activity in each specific design.

I think it would be pretty simple to randomly open or close certain doors, and force players to take a slightly different route. However, the Dredge Fractal took this idea too far, by making the players face one really annoying challenge depending on which path was randomly chosen.

TKiller.6829:

Platforming will be replayed by less players than combat.

I highly doubt if this is true.

The GW2 combat system isn’t dull at all. It’s basically the only reason a number of us even play the game anymore.

This thread title should be changed to ‘the forums are still terrible’