Guild Wars 2

First off I’d like to say how much I appreciate the first raid added into the game. It gives me the feeling of difficulty that I haven’t felt since the first game. So what should be in store for the future of the game?

Difficulty: I think as we keep adding in dungeons and raids, each one should get progressively longer or more difficult(preferably a balance of the two.) The longer this raid is out, the better players will become, and they’ll want even MORE difficult content. Players who don’t currently raid but are planning on trying, could try the first raid, and then progressively build up to the harder second raid. This not only evolves the game’s average skill level, but it gives a reason to play the first raid over the second raid for newer raiders.

Rewards: With more difficulty, should be better rewards. I would like to say that at some point maybe ArenaNet could add in a “legendary raid,” where it is more lengthy, more difficult(significantly), and has 2x the rewards as regular raids. At the end of the raid, there should be a small(roughly 1% droprate) for any random legendary weapon. The weapon WILL be account bound on pickup.

TL;DR As anet adds more dungeons and raids, they should get longer and more difficult, with even more rewards, as much as a 1% droprate for a legendary for clearing the entire raid(every boss and encounter.)

The future of harder PvE content in GW2 is most likely to be 1 raid per XPac, and the occasional new fractal.

just look at the lfg… people don’t do raid much, they just farm AB all day…

I actually dislike the raid not because it is hard, but because it too not guild war like. and in order to address this, anet has been retrofitting those raid mechanic into the openworld and fotm. and this current gap bothers me. maybe after they fully rework everything, the gameplay will be consistence again, but right now, the different game mode feel foreign to each other which break the immersion and lore abit.

and I am more concern with immersion then difficulty.

I am running training raid, and it a challenge to get people to stay or even try.

also i feel the breakbar limits gameplay option then expands it as it make alot of control pointless and weak because now control is just “a number” then and “effect”. i rather the breakbar has the effect of which ever status is applied the most so there is more thing to consider, as of now it abit borring and metabuild are too easy.

I always felt like gw2 was already kinda doing this. Adding more and more progressively challenging content that pushed player skill slightly. But if Anet is gonna add more difficult content, I wouldn’t be surprised if they also added more power creep through future elite specializations.

Gw1 had raid like content. The underworld, Fissure of Woe, Ruins of the tomb of the Primeval Kings, The Deep! So I feel like gw2 is within its place to also have that.

The target audience of the raids loved them and Anet said it was a huge success.

The next raid should be harder , after all people are getting better and better every week by playing the first raid. Just think back to when spirit vale first got out. It was a mess , people were calling it super hard etc. But after a few months of playing the raid, people got the hang of everything and when wing 3 got out , people were calling it super easy and were disappointed.

Most likely – 1 raid per expansion, 1-3 fractals and ofc LS. No reason to change this ratio without changes in difficulty system.

Pretty sure ArenaNet knows their audience well. The major focus is to create casual and fun-for-everyone content. They should keep this up as that is the best way to keep the game alive. I do not even enjoy any of those parts of the game but players like us are rather rare compared to those that do.
As much as I always liked dungeons, they clearly should not have been a major focus of the game like they were at the release. Eventually ended up with them getting completely dropped instead of having a small team continuously work on them over the years.
They could have been updated and slowly adjusted to the dungeon players’ abilities and strategies, to the overall power-increase across all classes and to kind of counter some of the meta strategies.

Luckily, we seem to have found a good balance with the recent updates. Raids as well as the T4 Fractals do clearly have a target audience.
It might be a miniority once again but it is still a substancial part of the player base. Makes more sense to me to please this group of players by balancing the raids around them instead of trying very hard to make them accessible to everyone. Those players will get bored of them instantly as they are not simple loot pinatas even when nerfed like what happened with dungeons when SW became the much more popular way of farming gold. And even worse, the actual target audience will get turned away as that would then turn raids into something they do not enjoy.

Can see a good future for challenging content in this game as long as we try to keep this balance between a casual minority and a more challenge driven minority instead of simply listening to those asking to completely drop anything they do not personally enjoy.

The future I would like to would include:
-Additional raids as well as new achievements for the old raid. These achievements should should include rewards for low-manning and other challenges that make the raids, well, more challenging.
-New Fractals and a rebalance to the old ones. The difficulty in T4 shouldn’t come from mechanics which completely counter certain classes or builds but turn it into a joke for others. There should be new rewards with all of the trinkets, including the new stat sets.
- Dungeon rework (one can dream, I know). They could be turned into everything that Fractals and raids are not. With a focus around small parties and a high personal skill level. It would be for those who already solo’ed or low-manned dungeons for the sake of it. There could be leaderboards and an ingame way of recording records. This one is the most unlikely, though.

Hardest part(only hard part imo) of raids:
Getting everyone online at the same time.

Which has nothing to do with the content, and everything to do with being raids and not dungeons ( which don’t have to be faceroll contrary to some beliefs).

Disagree.

At gw2 launch 2.546.124 players played hardest content. (Arah dungeon)
6 months later 1.8245.654 (fractal update).
1 year later, 1,124.456 players played liadri, concealing dark (8 orb extra challenge)
6 months later 741.874 (Fractal level 100 was added)
Another 8 months later: 600.754 Hot Added, difficult maps/mobs only this much people have all masteries, map completions, and story completions in this map
3 months later: raids. Player tried 1.541.235. Players succeed 214.456
5 months later, game in stagnation, only two raids added, current amount of total play (defeats included) 412.456
4 months later: OP’s suggestion makes it out: 214.214 people left doing it
4 month later, op’s suggesiton make it out again 124.478
1 year later, 3 inclusions more: 32.458 players left, playing hardest content.

These numbers are artificial, and made up, but they are made up to illustrate a point, wich correlates closely with reality (in my opinion) of what Anet has done.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

These numbers are artificial, and made up,

Then don’t post them.

It is my understanding that Anet’s dungeon team left the company a while back, so changes to dungeons and new dungeons would be minimal. As it stands right now, very few people do dungeons outside of achievements or currency for legendaries/skins. If you stare at the LFG for dungeons, the’ll often stay empty for extended periods of time.

Personally I’m not a fan of raids. Even with a group I find myself sitting around for an hour waiting to start because getting 10 people into voice chat and with an acceptable distribution of classes is apparently difficult. I don’t mind the raids themselves, but they suffer from a long setup time.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Disagree.

At gw2 launch 2.546.124 players played hardest content. (Arah dungeon)
6 months later 1.8245.654 (fractal update).
1 year later, 1,124.456 players played liadri, concealing dark (8 orb extra challenge)
6 months later 741.874 (Fractal level 100 was added)
Another 8 months later: 600.754 Hot Added, difficult maps/mobs only this much people have all masteries, map completions, and story completions in this map
3 months later: raids. Player tried 1.541.235. Players succeed 214.456
5 months later, game in stagnation, only two raids added, current amount of total play (defeats included) 412.456
4 months later: OP’s suggestion makes it out: 214.214 people left doing it
4 month later, op’s suggesiton make it out again 124.478
1 year later, 3 inclusions more: 32.458 players left, playing hardest content.

These numbers are artificial, and made up, but they are made up to illustrate a point, wich correlates closely with reality (in my opinion) of what Anet has done.

You can’t make up numbers and then proceed to use them as an argument. That is absurd

OriOri.8724:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Disagree.

At gw2 launch 2.546.124 players played hardest content. (Arah dungeon)
6 months later 1.8245.654 (fractal update).
1 year later, 1,124.456 players played liadri, concealing dark (8 orb extra challenge)
6 months later 741.874 (Fractal level 100 was added)
Another 8 months later: 600.754 Hot Added, difficult maps/mobs only this much people have all masteries, map completions, and story completions in this map
3 months later: raids. Player tried 1.541.235. Players succeed 214.456
5 months later, game in stagnation, only two raids added, current amount of total play (defeats included) 412.456
4 months later: OP’s suggestion makes it out: 214.214 people left doing it
4 month later, op’s suggesiton make it out again 124.478
1 year later, 3 inclusions more: 32.458 players left, playing hardest content.

These numbers are artificial, and made up, but they are made up to illustrate a point, wich correlates closely with reality (in my opinion) of what Anet has done.

You can’t make up numbers and then proceed to use them as an argument. That is absurd

Politicians have been doing it for decades and people still vote for them.
Then when it is revealed to the ignorant that the numbers are made up he pretends to be upset, and at the next election vote for someone else that also made up all the numbers.

Xillllix.3485:

OriOri.8724:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Disagree.

At gw2 launch 2.546.124 players played hardest content. (Arah dungeon)
6 months later 1.8245.654 (fractal update).
1 year later, 1,124.456 players played liadri, concealing dark (8 orb extra challenge)
6 months later 741.874 (Fractal level 100 was added)
Another 8 months later: 600.754 Hot Added, difficult maps/mobs only this much people have all masteries, map completions, and story completions in this map
3 months later: raids. Player tried 1.541.235. Players succeed 214.456
5 months later, game in stagnation, only two raids added, current amount of total play (defeats included) 412.456
4 months later: OP’s suggestion makes it out: 214.214 people left doing it
4 month later, op’s suggesiton make it out again 124.478
1 year later, 3 inclusions more: 32.458 players left, playing hardest content.

These numbers are artificial, and made up, but they are made up to illustrate a point, wich correlates closely with reality (in my opinion) of what Anet has done.

You can’t make up numbers and then proceed to use them as an argument. That is absurd

Politicians have been doing it for decades and people still vote for them.
Then when it is revealed to the ignorant that the numbers are made up he pretends to be upset, and at the next election vote for someone else that also made up all the numbers.

They should do more fractals/dungeons than raids, only 1 fractal after 3 years is terrible and shouldn’t be praised at all, it’s not even entirely new. Raids aren’t even harder than fractals, there are no real instant kill or annoying stuff to deal with, they are just puzzle which once you know how to solve it becomes trivial and for less rewards than Fractals again.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Disagree.

At gw2 launch 2.546.124 players played hardest content. (Arah dungeon)
6 months later 1.8245.654 (fractal update).
1 year later, 1,124.456 players played liadri, concealing dark (8 orb extra challenge)
6 months later 741.874 (Fractal level 100 was added)
Another 8 months later: 600.754 Hot Added, difficult maps/mobs only this much people have all masteries, map completions, and story completions in this map
3 months later: raids. Player tried 1.541.235. Players succeed 214.456
5 months later, game in stagnation, only two raids added, current amount of total play (defeats included) 412.456
4 months later: OP’s suggestion makes it out: 214.214 people left doing it
4 month later, op’s suggesiton make it out again 124.478
1 year later, 3 inclusions more: 32.458 players left, playing hardest content.

These numbers are artificial, and made up, but they are made up to illustrate a point, wich correlates closely with reality (in my opinion) of what Anet has done.

This is the funniest and worst argument against challenging content and raids I have ever read. The fact that you admit the numbers were made up, yet attempt to justify lies as facts (of which you follow up as an opinion) is a whole other level of literary dishonesty on these forums.

I think I might keep that last quote from you, it’s one hell of a fallacy.

You can make a valid point by illustrating with fictious numbers.

I do think that doing that in a game’s official forum is rather.. dangerous you can say.
Most gamers I know tend to worship facts, measuring and true numbers, there is no other sensible world then that, in their eyes.
While there is, but far less common in these industries

Ok then tell me why you think more ppl play a raid now, then ppl played a dungeon at gw2 launch (basically the hard content evolution of gw2). Everything points in the direction of very few people playing (and especially succeeding) raids, while dungeons where much more succeeded.

I could have just gave the opinion it’s bad for the amount of players it will attract (op’s suggestion), I gave numbers so people understand my point better. Everyone knows HoT has less players then gw2 launch, everyone knows the gw2 sale figures are at all time low. Everyone knows (while not ultra hard), there’s quite a lot amount of lfg’s for raids.

Like HoT mobs scared off lot of people, masteries to difficult to get etc. Everyone knows that.

Now it’s your turn to prove that raids piqued lots of interest of people, more people then ever played lvl 100 fractals.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Ok then tell me why you think more ppl play a raid now, then ppl played a dungeon at gw2 launch (basically the hard content evolution of gw2). Everything points in the direction of very few people playing (and especially succeeding) raids, while dungeons where much more succeeded.

Why would I make that point? There was a large amount of interest in dungeons or literally anything in the game because it was all new. The game was new, people didn’t know jack about how the mechanics worked, dungeons were an unknown with exceedingly difficult encounters.

From the get-go Raids were advertised and known to be the hardest content to come into GW2 by their very design, in which we can see in game as slowly becoming easier to accomplish after time passes and more people get accustomed to them. Forsaken Thicket is (at a slower rate than dungeons imo) becoming a decent routine but challenging PvE end-game. Very much the way Dungeons turned out now.

What you and I can’t deny is that Raiding is quite popular right now, with enough interest that the LFG and LFM tabs for it are being filled out with their intended purposes. Check any Monday reset and you will see a spawn of posts in LFG easily.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I could have just gave the opinion it’s bad for the amount of players it will attract (op’s suggestion), I gave numbers so people understand my point better. Everyone knows HoT has less players then gw2 launch, everyone knows the gw2 sale figures are at all time low. Everyone knows (while not ultra hard), there’s quite a lot amount of lfg’s for raids.

OP suggested that for its intended audience for people wanting difficult content, that they could eventually make raids longer and/or harder. That’s not a bad point to make, but you followed up with made-up numbers that were ridiculous to begin with. How do you know the number of people who tried Liandri for instance? She was extremely accessible in an area where everyone went into. Fractals at release were a concept everyone would at least try, because it was new content.

So you are trying to link GW2 population decline / retention to the introduction of hard content? One does not beget the other, you can form an opinion at best but you cannot prove it. At all. Especially since Raids are such difficult content that the interest you see in the LFG / LFM is potentially a minority of the raiders in raids. Why? Because people run with guildies or consistent raid groups on a weekly basis. You could say the same thing about fractals except there’s an immense ease to forming a fractal group of 5 using the LFG tool as opposed to a longer delay with getting a raid group of 10 together. This justifies raiders making consistent raid groups without needing to pug.

You see what I just did above? I formed a more cohesive opinion that is rooted in facts. Mind coming up with a point that does the same thing?

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Like HoT mobs scared off lot of people, masteries to difficult to get etc. Everyone knows that.

I cannot deny the existence of players who kept getting pocket raptor’d, or players who simply hate exploring or getting masteries. These are likely the same folks who would have complained about Grenth or Balthazar Temples at launch, because people hate it when content makes them fail. People hate failing, they hate falling behind because they don’t want to put time into anything.

You can see this abhorrently evident when we had that exceedingly rare server downtime for a few hours, and people demanded hundreds of gems for their time. The entitlement to have everything in the game is astoundingly bad for the general populace of this game, but it can’t be helped when the content being delivered is supposed to reach out to multiple branches, Arenanet chose that path themselves.

Heck I am still impressed by players who do adventures often and try to hit the Leaderboards, I am never going to beat the Ley-line guy and I can’t imagine playing the game for the sole purpose of doing Adventure racing but more power to him. I hope they improve on Adventures and learn from the good ones in HoTs and avoid the Bad ones.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Now it’s your turn to prove that raids piqued lots of interest of people, more people then ever played lvl 100 fractals.

Again, don’t have to prove anything. If I had to prove anything, Forsaken Thicket has been around for a few months now fully, and I am still doing raids with veterans and newbies alike who are interested and want to get the content completed.

If anything, I am afraid you are going to have to prove why Raids are a bad thing for the game despite the LFG interest and guild interest for them. Good luck with that.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Disagree.

At gw2 launch 2.546.124 players played hardest content. (Arah dungeon)
6 months later 1.8245.654 (fractal update).
1 year later, 1,124.456 players played liadri, concealing dark (8 orb extra challenge)
6 months later 741.874 (Fractal level 100 was added)
Another 8 months later: 600.754 Hot Added, difficult maps/mobs only this much people have all masteries, map completions, and story completions in this map
3 months later: raids. Player tried 1.541.235. Players succeed 214.456
5 months later, game in stagnation, only two raids added, current amount of total play (defeats included) 412.456
4 months later: OP’s suggestion makes it out: 214.214 people left doing it
4 month later, op’s suggesiton make it out again 124.478
1 year later, 3 inclusions more: 32.458 players left, playing hardest content.

These numbers are artificial, and made up, but they are made up to illustrate a point, wich correlates closely with reality (in my opinion) of what Anet has done.

You realize you completely fabricated numbers to prove a bias in which you actually have zero evidence of right? Please stop trying to sound intelligent, you failed miserably