Guild Wars 2

So, I had a couple questions.

I’ve been too lazy to get specific answers on this myself and before doing it I figured I’d throw the questions out if anyone had an answer.

What is the exact time from Bloomhunger’s emote of the incoming massive attack to the attack? And, can you invuln through it?

When the attack goes off do you need to redo all wisps or just finish the ones you missed?

If anyone knows it’d be appreciated, wondering if it can be soloed, pretty sure there are options to get 3 wisps in time but 4 would be pushing it (2 is pretty easy on most professions). Bloom I know can be soloed, it’s just that wisp part.

Jerus.4350:

So, I had a couple questions.

I’ve been too lazy to get specific answers on this myself and before doing it I figured I’d throw the questions out if anyone had an answer.

What is the exact time from Bloomhunger’s emote of the incoming massive attack to the attack? And, can you invuln through it?

When the attack goes off do you need to redo all wisps or just finish the ones you missed?

If anyone knows it’d be appreciated, wondering if it can be soloed, pretty sure there are options to get 3 wisps in time but 4 would be pushing it (2 is pretty easy on most professions). Bloom I know can be soloed, it’s just that wisp part.

I don’t think the attack for failing wisps is a 1-shot mechanic (even at 89). You can tank through it. I failed 25% wisp and my health dropped from 15,444 to 1,887 (viper/sinister gear) from the attack (without singularity).

kiwituatara.6053:

Jerus.4350:

So, I had a couple questions.

I’ve been too lazy to get specific answers on this myself and before doing it I figured I’d throw the questions out if anyone had an answer.

What is the exact time from Bloomhunger’s emote of the incoming massive attack to the attack? And, can you invuln through it?

When the attack goes off do you need to redo all wisps or just finish the ones you missed?

If anyone knows it’d be appreciated, wondering if it can be soloed, pretty sure there are options to get 3 wisps in time but 4 would be pushing it (2 is pretty easy on most professions). Bloom I know can be soloed, it’s just that wisp part.

I don’t think the attack for failing wisps is a 1-shot mechanic (even at 89). You can tank through it. I failed 25% wisp and my health dropped from 15,444 to 1,887 (viper/sinister gear) from the attack (without singularity).

Hmm I guess I was slacking and not topped off on health the times I’ve failed. Promising.

why swamp again? back to back? it’s the most hated one.

littlebabyprincess.9786:

why swamp again? back to back? it’s the most hated one.

Or most loved depending on who you are :b

Having done this several times now, I can say that its nowhere near as bad as I initially thought. Some build tweeks and learn the mechanics and its not bad at all, albeit a bit long.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Having done this several times now, I can say that its nowhere near as bad as I initially thought. Some build tweeks and learn the mechanics and its not bad at all, albeit a bit long.

Pretty much this. I still think that the champs are superfluous, but at least I finally managed to get hit by one! Made me wake up …

CptAurellian.9537:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Having done this several times now, I can say that its nowhere near as bad as I initially thought. Some build tweeks and learn the mechanics and its not bad at all, albeit a bit long.

Pretty much this. I still think that the champs are superfluous, but at least I finally managed to get hit by one! Made me wake up …

They’re not superfluous if you’re a Necro, team loads it with condi’s before Bloom activates, epi on bloom, win (also 2 necro epi bouncing).

I yesterday had one crazy good team (compared to most pugs), smoothest run ever, (though still not without problems and not with no ‘almost death’ situations for several ppl. So with some bad luck that run could still easely have been massively ruined.

Then today i joined 3 pug teams. All try 2 times, fail two times, ragequit two times except me and one other guy. Did we play absolutely horrible? no, we easely have quelled Mai trinn 100. But the finesse wasn’t there, and neither the luck. Getting almost dodge bar back to be stunned 0,5 sec before it fills is just ouch. Getting more poison then usual (dunno why) + all the stuns of the world (oakheart champ + boss) is ouch. Somehow the whole room was filled with poison blooms while all the other time it only filled the outer edge. This randomness seriously kills the fun of this fractal.

And then it hit me why i dislike this fractal: no comeback possible no matter what. One lousy mistake or fatal combo of bad luck rng (unvoidable deaths traps), and boom you cannot finish fractal. If at the point of the over the top massive poison bloom trigger (the bigger then usual one) + double champ (boss + summon) at the point, some ppl get downed, by a ‘death trap’ (next to unavoidable death), then it’s game over! no heroism, no nothing, you fail, you loose. Guess what I had SEVERAL comebacks on vale guardian and that even got the kill! 4 people downed, revived in crazy aoe, healed up just enough, then reload all druids heals and get everyone topped of for a normal rotation again. One mistake in that situation and definitely death, but persistance, and heroism got us true. This is possible in most fractals too, but not at all in bloomhunger. It’s a labyrint and take the wrong turn, and you loose, you cannot step back to take again the correct turn.

I know lots of ppl will disagree with me but meh. Other fractals are FUN while being pug, some are still challenging (maybe not for the elite who only plays fractals, but hey not everyone has/uses meta comps). I’m adjusting my builds as much as possible, even have 3 ascended sets now. the new agony resistance nerf, makes most of my sets not viable for 75+ fractals with is a pain.

Ty for taking the fun out of fractal+pugging combination (the most done fractal combo to my opinion).

Fun fact, I just joined a new guild cause old one to casual (no raid, no dungeon, no fractal). Guess what: They do way more raids then fractal. Nobody answered to do Bloomhunger 77! and plenty people should be capable to do it.

I wonder why that would be ArenaneT? Why people don’t do 77 bloomhunger while being actually capable level to do it?

HINT: fun factor.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

… (snip)
I wonder why that would be ArenaneT? Why people don’t do 77 bloomhunger while being actually capable level to do it?

HINT: fun factor.

I agreed with you. I just completed my fractal dailies excluding “swamp”. It made the avoid list. There is only 1 fractal on that list so far. And yes, I have completed it a number of times even with just 4 people instead a full party of 5. However, the time spent and rewards for that isn’t worth the time or chance if you are PUG’ing. I know some people love it and think it’s fun. Old swamp wasn’t better, but I would still do it just because it’s easy to PUG for it. New swamp is better in that it’s more challenging, but it’s a bit overdone. I’m tired of wasting my time doing more rezzing than actual playing.

getting a pug that can do this on t4 in a reasonable amount of time and not die on the poison blooms is like trying to convince the pope that god doesn’t exist

It can use some tuning and changes, just please don’t neuter it. It’s the only fight in fractals that has the old GW2 feel, where facetanking is not ok, and you have to actively defend yourself or die.

The worst part of the fight is probably the long “survive the spirit onslaught” phases.

Other than that it isn’t bad. I think the biggest problem is that it went from one of the fastest fractals to one of the longer ones. People expected to breeze through it in 5 minutes and now it takes considerably longer than that. The problem isn’t with the fractal itself, but more meeting people’s expectations.

Cameron Rich.3905:

Rest assured that we have no desire to trivialize the Bloomhunger fight.

Thank you

Cameron Rich.3905:

Rest assured that we have no desire to trivialize the Bloomhunger fight.

Just do something with projectiles (they are way too fast) and melee hate (halved breakbar maybe? or additional endurance regen in melee?).
Sometimes you just dont have endurance to dodge everything that is being spammed on you (especially with endurance regen instability), and then ofc he immediately focuses on downed target and charge at you again and again.

Cameron Rich.3905:

I can say we agree that the fight could use a bit more tuning to bring in line with the difficulty level we’d like to achieve while still being a fun experience for new and veteran players alike.

The wording puts me off here, " new players " when talking about T4 doesn’t sit right..

Sarahfull.4930:

Cameron Rich.3905:

I can say we agree that the fight could use a bit more tuning to bring in line with the difficulty level we’d like to achieve while still being a fun experience for new and veteran players alike.

The wording puts me off here, " new players " when talking about T4 doesn’t sit right..

Yup, I’m thinking(hoping) he’s referring to the t1/t2 versions with the new players in mind.

Jerus.4350:

Sarahfull.4930:

Cameron Rich.3905:

I can say we agree that the fight could use a bit more tuning to bring in line with the difficulty level we’d like to achieve while still being a fun experience for new and veteran players alike.

The wording puts me off here, " new players " when talking about T4 doesn’t sit right..

Yup, I’m thinking(hoping) he’s referring to the t1/t2 versions with the new players in mind.

Yea although, fractals are more everyone with 150ar ( no matter how you got it) friendly more than late game content

Cameron Rich.3905:

Just wanted to pop in and say that Ben Arnold (who built the new bloomhunger) and I have been keeping an eye on this thread since we released the updated Swamp. While I can’t promise anything, I can say we agree that the fight could use a bit more tuning to bring in line with the difficulty level we’d like to achieve while still being a fun experience for new and veteran players alike.

When we have more information to share, you’ll be the first to know. For now, know that your thoughts are not falling on deaf ears.

The new bloomhunger is one of the few fights that are actually worth being a t4 fractal. Only the survival fight needs some tweaking, and the rewards should be higher because it’s much more difficult than all the other t4 fractals (more encryptions for example).
Mossman on the other side should have his health increased again because in his current form he is just a joke, which is a pitty when you keep in mind that pre hot he used to be one of the hardest bosses in the game.
I suggest buffing mossman again and in exchange, so that the fractal doesn’t get too long, remove the whisp part, because the whisp part is the least interesting part of swamp, there is no fighting involved, you just have to learn some ways where you can jump over the trees and it usually gets done by three people while the rest afks in la or somewhere else.

Lendruil.9061:

Mossman on the other side should have his health increased again because in his current form he is just a joke, which is a pitty when you keep in mind that pre hot he used to be one of the hardest bosses in the game.

I’d disagree. mossman isn’t much challenge anymore, but upping his health isn’t the answer. health sponges aren’t fun. if you want to make mossman a challenge, do it with mechanics, not with numbers. mossman was difficult, but he wasn’t fun. there wasn’t much skill, or much to learn, it was just about damaging him and staying alive.

Lendruil.9061:

Cameron Rich.3905:

Just wanted to pop in and say that Ben Arnold (who built the new bloomhunger) and I have been keeping an eye on this thread since we released the updated Swamp. While I can’t promise anything, I can say we agree that the fight could use a bit more tuning to bring in line with the difficulty level we’d like to achieve while still being a fun experience for new and veteran players alike.

When we have more information to share, you’ll be the first to know. For now, know that your thoughts are not falling on deaf ears.

The new bloomhunger is one of the few fights that are actually worth being a t4 fractal. Only the survival fight needs some tweaking, and the rewards should be higher because it’s much more difficult than all the other t4 fractals (more encryptions for example).
Mossman on the other side should have his health increased again because in his current form he is just a joke, which is a pitty when you keep in mind that pre hot he used to be one of the hardest bosses in the game.
I suggest buffing mossman again and in exchange, so that the fractal doesn’t get too long, remove the whisp part, because the whisp part is the least interesting part of swamp, there is no fighting involved, you just have to learn some ways where you can jump over the trees and it usually gets done by three people while the rest afks in la or somewhere else.

Even calling him a joke compared to his former self is giving this new version wwwaaayyy too much credit. Can we have the old version at his hut? Something we can fight after bloom? That way you don’t need to increase the rewards for bloom and just give players more loot if they kill mossman too.

Thought: maybe give an option to knock on his door to fight him at his hut so people who are just in it for legendary hunts don’t get upset.

Gray.9041:

Lendruil.9061:

Mossman on the other side should have his health increased again because in his current form he is just a joke, which is a pitty when you keep in mind that pre hot he used to be one of the hardest bosses in the game.

I’d disagree. mossman isn’t much challenge anymore, but upping his health isn’t the answer. health sponges aren’t fun. if you want to make mossman a challenge, do it with mechanics, not with numbers. mossman was difficult, but he wasn’t fun. there wasn’t much skill, or much to learn, it was just about damaging him and staying alive.

There’s a difference between an hp sponge and having enough health to not die to burst damage that completely ignores any mechanics going on.

Jerus.4350:

There’s a difference between an hp sponge and having enough health to not die to burst damage that completely ignores any mechanics going on.

Fractals have their optimal planned running time. Increasing time for a Mossman fight must be compensated by reducing something else then.

Rednik.3809:

Jerus.4350:

There’s a difference between an hp sponge and having enough health to not die to burst damage that completely ignores any mechanics going on.

Fractals have their optimal planned running time. Increasing time for a Mossman fight must be compensated by reducing something else then.

Why? As others have mentioned, toss a few extra encryptions in the chest to make up for the ‘money loss’ or just say screw it and people can decide if it’s worth it or not themselves (I’d say yes).

Rednik.3809:

Jerus.4350:

There’s a difference between an hp sponge and having enough health to not die to burst damage that completely ignores any mechanics going on.

Fractals have their optimal planned running time. Increasing time for a Mossman fight must be compensated by reducing something else then.

Unfortunately, there are fewer groups that can run optimally. Most groups are far from it. Time is really a poor factor to base things on.

Jerus.4350:

Rednik.3809:

Jerus.4350:

There’s a difference between an hp sponge and having enough health to not die to burst damage that completely ignores any mechanics going on.

Fractals have their optimal planned running time. Increasing time for a Mossman fight must be compensated by reducing something else then.

Why? As others have mentioned, toss a few extra encryptions in the chest to make up for the ‘money loss’ or just say screw it and people can decide if it’s worth it or not themselves (I’d say yes).

Pretty sure “running time” was why Cliffside and Snowblind were toned down and shortened significantly. The current Mossman is fine, I find that breaking his defiant bar trivializes him anyways. I would suggest making the bar regen much slower than the current rate or tying it with skills that deal agony damage like Gouge.

Did swamp a few times with the guild as it was one that we did for fun as a tune up for the rest of the fractals we dive into. Since the changes … we’ve pretty much quit do swamp… Not because we couldn’t complete it but mainly it just stopped being fun. Mossman in the tunnel is a nice change but bloomy…. (well reasons) just no longer worth the time and effort. We all agree it was time for a change but from one extreme to the other was just a major turnoff. Thank you for the effort but we will be passing on it for now

I don’t hv a complain for this swamp. I don’t think its difficult at all.

Talindra.4958:

I don’t hv a complain for this swamp. I don’t think its difficult at all.

It’s not hard, it’s just at the same level of punishing that old fractals used to be. Make a mistake you get punished. It’s not like the tells give you less time, or that it’s more chaotic with more going on. It’s actually easier in a sense than many fights with a large model with easily seen tells and a solid amount of time to react. Again, it’s just punishing in that it’s easy for you to get downed.

Jerus.4350:

Sarahfull.4930:

Cameron Rich.3905:

I can say we agree that the fight could use a bit more tuning to bring in line with the difficulty level we’d like to achieve while still being a fun experience for new and veteran players alike.

The wording puts me off here, " new players " when talking about T4 doesn’t sit right..

Yup, I’m thinking(hoping) he’s referring to the t1/t2 versions with the new players in mind.

Why bother though? It’s completely faceroll below T4 – it wouldn’t require changing at those levels. And their are ‘new’ people (as such) that are moving into T4 from the lower tiers.

Personally, I don’t mind how it is now. But, as mentioned earlier, pugging it is a nightmare. Tumbleweeds and crickets everywhere.

MashMash.1645:

But, as mentioned earlier, pugging it is a nightmare. Tumbleweeds and crickets everywhere.

… this … makes the swamp a swamp. not many wants to do it. those that tried pugging mostly failed and you see @ boss in lfg. i ignore them. why bother? it’s fractal and not raid. fractal is meant for end game content that almost anyone can do and should be casual. it became non sense. i run out of patience waiting for people to “git gud”.

littlemunster.1059:

MashMash.1645:

But, as mentioned earlier, pugging it is a nightmare. Tumbleweeds and crickets everywhere.

… this … makes the swamp a swamp. not many wants to do it. those that tried pugging mostly failed and you see @ boss in lfg. i ignore them. why bother? it’s fractal and not raid. fractal is meant for end game content that almost anyone can do and should be casual. it became non sense. i run out of patience waiting for people to “git gud”.

No, fractals should be end game. Not for casuals who don’t have enough time to do 4 fractals. It’s laugh-able that people make time for raids although not for fractals back in the day..

Sarahfull.4930:

No, fractals should be end game.

That pretty much ended the day Anet decided to obsolete dungeons.

Astralporing.1957:

Sarahfull.4930:

No, fractals should be end game.

That pretty much ended the day Anet decided to obsolete dungeons.

Not really. Fractals are still their endgame 5 man content.

Dungeons are there for you to improve, and gear up on the cheap.

Astralporing.1957:

Sarahfull.4930:

No, fractals should be end game.

That pretty much ended the day Anet decided to obsolete dungeons.

Why have scaling in fractals if it’s just braindead easy, insanely easy, stupidly easy, and still pretty darn easy?

Just popping in to say a few things about the changes to T4 fracs.

• I agree that the old swamp fight was too easy, but my god I’m not about to spend an hour running around in circles for 0 reward. It’s not like the mechanics in the bloomhunger fight are very hard, but the massive healthpool+invulnerability and useless periods where you just have to run around and wait are boring and really kill any fun there might have been in doing this fractal. Even if you manage to time your move from one wisp to the next perfectly, it takes ages to kill this boss. It doesn’t help that you are unable to recover from any of its attacks. Sure, let it knock people down and then rain hell down upon them, but at least give them a sliver of a chance to get away after their screw up. I play ranged, but this fight is near impossible for people who prefer melee because of that. If you had given swamp a few more short stages, like we see in, for example, cliffside, it might not have felt as tedious. At the moment there is no feeling of progression, there’s just extreme boredom, circling around and cleaving down trash mobs while 1 1 1ing bloomhunger from a distance. Just mindlessly doing the same thing over and over, with an occasional dodge to avoid its attacks, is not the engaging group content I felt fractals used to be.
• The molten boss fractal was always relatively easy, because the mechanics weren’t very hard. If you had changed mechanics for the bossfight instead of making the (trash) mob harder to kill, you could have made this fun. In my experience, it almost takes pugs longer to kill the effigy than it takes to kill the bosses. Again, you could have added more stages to this fractal so as to give it a feeling of progression.
• I think the chaos frac mostly captures the right feel for a fractal, although it fits well with the extreme laziness the anet team has been showing lately (“Oh my, I’m out of hairstyle ideas, let’s add norn hairstyles to humans, they’ll never notice!”). The only thing I hate about it is the final bossfight. Again, 1 1 1 from a distance will do the trick, no problemo. If you prefer melee, however, you can pack up and go home, because you’ll find no place here. The boss itself isn’t much of a challenge, it’s the floorpanels which give most pugs problems. Give the boss a smaller healthpool and instead give him more CCs, and people may actually have to think about this fight and what to do here.

T4s always did feel like a waste of time, when you could instead do something that is actually entertaining (this is a game; people are in your game to have fun) and/or gives decent loot, but you’ve really outdone yourself now. I’m not saying you should add more rewards, I’m stating that spending so much time on something so unrewarding and boring is just a grind, not the fun gameplay I’m certain a lot of us would like to see from you. I used to run T4 fractals every day, and now I just don’t play them anymore whatsoever. GG WP, you killed any incentive I might have had to do fractals.
TL;DR: You made fractals an unengaging waste of time. Designers, plz Git Gud yourself.

The new swamp isn’t difficult, it’s just mindnumbingly tedious. Who thought that having him stand in the center invulnerable every 25% of his life summoning trash mobs that give you absolutely nothing was a good idea? And for a full minute each time. Are you kidding me? And the fact that you force everyone to go range on him is a bit of an idiotic mistake as well.
I use to do daily fractals every day, anymore they are pretty much just a huge waste of time. The rewards revamp a few months ago was supposed to improve drops I thought, instead it nerfed them into meaninglessness. I don’t even get ascended rings to smash anymore. As far as I’m concerned, the fractals are a huge time suck that I don’t bother with anymore. They aren’t hard, they’re boring and don’t even pretend to compensate you for the time you put in.

Ataraxis.6098:

The new swamp isn’t difficult, it’s just mindnumbingly tedious. Who thought that having him stand in the center invulnerable every 25% of his life summoning trash mobs that give you absolutely nothing was a good idea? And for a full minute each time. Are you kidding me? And the fact that you force everyone to go range on him is a bit of an idiotic mistake as well.
I use to do daily fractals every day, anymore they are pretty much just a huge waste of time. The rewards revamp a few months ago was supposed to improve drops I thought, instead it nerfed them into meaninglessness. I don’t even get ascended rings to smash anymore. As far as I’m concerned, the fractals are a huge time suck that I don’t bother with anymore. They aren’t hard, they’re boring and don’t even pretend to compensate you for the time you put in.

You don’t have to range. In fact it’s better not to go full range. When he’s about to ground pound, get out of there start lobbing things at him to break the bar, after a few seconds safe spots to melee open up in the AOE for you to jump in and finish breaking and get back to melee attacks. Watch for his punch, and the shake is basically undodgeable at that distance, but it doesn’t usually kill me, just forces me to use healing skills.

It’s harder, but it’s not that hard once you learn it. Just don’t do it when you’re having lag

It to melee unfriendly and the flowers have to much hp. I generally do not run swamp because it to much or a pain at least at t4.

Gim

Did swamp a few more times since the beginning of this thread. I still think people are whining for nothing.
I am tempest zerk, so the lowest armor possible, and I still don’t get downed. There’s just so many skills to use to avoid the massive attacks, you have a TP, Eye of the Storm (x2 with the trait), a mist form, etc, and you don’t need half of them to make it through the whole fight.
And if you get hit, you can also take defensive potions. I mean they’re cheap, but I don’t see many people using them. If you’re bad at this fractal, use them, nobody will blame you.
You don’t need to play perfect for this fractal (I’m not xD), it’s not nearly as hard as raids (I can chat on telegram during swamp), just know your class and accept to change a few skills for this specific fight.

Now yes, if your team is bad, you’re gonna lose anyway, but tell your team how to get better, and pug teams are progressively gonna get better.

Thank you for the laugh.. Can’t melee bloom pft..

Edit/Ps: lvl77 is emenies give random condi, that’s probely why your dieing alot. I could see a unlucky fear could kill you. Try get enough agony resistance for 89, booon theif is alot less punishing

Thanks for making fractals short these past 2 days!!!! Swampland doesn’t count. It’s still the most hated if you go around asking people in game. Back to back? Again? Git GUD rotation back ok?

i can say with honesty that the fractal indeed needs some changes. We were doing the dailies with 2 necr/druid/engi/war. Everything was smooth but unfortunately when we started bloomhunger warrior was pretty much useless. At some point the war left (probably furious) and we proceeded to lfg one more (ranged) and faceroll it.

If u got nice ranged classes the frac is as easy as any other, unfortunately its awkward for classes that can only perform from melee range.

littlebabyprincess.9786:

Thanks for making fractals short these past 2 days!!!! Swampland doesn’t count. It’s still the most hated if you go around asking people in game. Back to back? Again? Git GUD rotation back ok?

It’s predicable.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists#Daily_Schedule

You won’t see it again until next Friday.

Sarahfull.4930:

Thank you for the laugh.. Can’t melee bloom pft..

Edit/Ps: lvl77 is emenies give random condi, that’s probely why your dieing alot. I could see a unlucky fear could kill you. Try get enough agony resistance for 89, booon theif is alot less punishing

You can. In premade guild group. Have fun melee him in pug.

Rednik.3809:

Sarahfull.4930:

Thank you for the laugh.. Can’t melee bloom pft..

Edit/Ps: lvl77 is emenies give random condi, that’s probely why your dieing alot. I could see a unlucky fear could kill you. Try get enough agony resistance for 89, booon theif is alot less punishing

You can. In premade guild group. Have fun melee him in pug.

How do pugs affect your ability to evade big attacks and play well?

To trivialize the bloomhunger fight, simply bring a rev, druid, and a few classes with high burst like thief, guard, ele etc. Druid can bring both electric wyvern and moa. Moa does ~600 bb damage, wyvern can do up to 700 if he’s facing correctly. At tier 4 the bar for both his shake and his pound have 1000 health, so the other 4 people only need to contribute 400ish damage – easy for a rev to take care of, not to mention any random soft cc that might get put on him.

Even in a pug its pretty easy to burst him down in 10-20s if you cc both bars. The only thing to worry about is having enough situational awareness to see when and where he leaps after the onslaught phase and making sure everyone is ready to dps when the bar breaks.

The problem I have with the new bloomy is that a single mechanic is the difference between a total clusterkitten, or so easy it’s boring. I say this is a problem only because I think when it comes to balancing the fractal it will be hard to make it challenging for organized groups without making it frustrating to the point of unfun for pugs. The end boss of chaos is better because there some nuance to tanking him correctly, rather then just breaking the bar = win. If there was some organizational check in the onslaught phase that could make the fight go faster, (rather than just waiting out a timer) that could give a challenge to coordinated groups without making it unwinnable for pugs.

Jerus.4350:

How do pugs affect your ability to evade big attacks and play well?

Because you cant break all breakbars alone?