Guild Wars 2

Most of you might not know this problem since you either farm the LS or complain on this forum about the LS.
But since the rewards for the doungen have been changed a big problem showed up: The CoF farmer spreading to the other doungens.

Wait, you think its a blessing because now it´s easier to find groups via LFG.com?

then let me ask you a counter question: What level does you toon has when you do doungens?
I bet it´s 80 am i right? Even Ac which only requires lvl 35, right?

Well try to find a group with 35 up to 79.
I can tell you 70% of all groups you find on LFG.com want only 80s in their groups.
Even for AC. Because of fast runs.

Some of you mihgt now want to argue that its always faster with 80s.
And I will argue that afew guys on this forum allready found out that low level actually make slightly more dmg then 80s.

So to stop a fight, we will not argue about effectivity in doungen due to level, because seriously, if the guy behind the toon knows what he does, he is more valuable then jsut a obitrary number above your toon.

And I get those elitist deleted due to extended cursing involving a banana people will not change their mind because rather enjoying their game they want to have everythign as fast as possible.

So i think we shouldn´t fight if this is a problem or not (because it is) and rahter come up with ideas HOW A-Net can make it more attractiv to those……people to bring along one or two low level players.

One Idea could be a daily reward, which provides extra loot, like High rank mats with a low fair chance for ascended mats.
Or even a gold boost or other things those-….people want.
We could call it the doungen mentor reward or something.

This way both parties get something out of it:
Low Lvl and/or new comers to the game can do doungens, get exp ingame and for mechanics in game (seriously playing doungen helps to understand your class way better then questing so why pass on it?) and their reward in the end.
80s get their farming reward AND some in addition if they bring low Lvl with them, even though it might took 5 or 20 minutes longer.

So let´s hear what can think off.

I have a question: What exactly is a doungen?

While we’re at it, i leveled my guardian and ele on AC, mostly, before they changed the rewards, had no problems finding groups, sometimes i had to play on my fully geared engi but most of time i did the whole run on my low level chars.

Dude it takes like a week to get to 80.

Broadicea.8294:

Dude it takes like a week to get to 80.

I don´t know if you are an adult goin work, a highschool student or goin to middle school or what ever.
But i can tell you that making 80 levels in one week required either way to specific ways of doin so OR much time investment, which most poeple can not effort due to time constrains or other reasons.

further more it was not entirly based on gain Exp to level, as i stated it helps for exsample newcomers or people who play a new class to get used to that class in circumstances given by doungens.
It also will help the doungen farmers in a long term, because if Low Level learn the doungens NOW they will be MORE doungen farmers at level 80 later on.
I´ve seen enough 80s who had NO idea whats the hell was goin on due to lack of knowledge.
Also this game is based on team work. What team is that if you exclude everyone who has a,lower level then you? specialy in areas where they allready met all requirments nessecary?

ShroomOneUp.6913:

Broadicea.8294:

Dude it takes like a week to get to 80.

I don´t know if you are an adult goin work, a highschool student or goin to middle school or what ever.
But i can tell you that making 80 levels in one week required either way to specific ways of doin so OR much time investment, which most poeple can not effort due to time constrains or other reasons.

further more it was not entirly base. on gain Exp to level, as i stated it helps for exsample newcomers or people who play a new class to get used to that class in circumstances given by doungens.
It also will help the doungen farmers in a long term, because if Low Level learn the doungens NOW they will be MORE doungen farmers at level 80 later on.
I´ve seen enough 80s who had NO idea whats the hell was goin on due to lack of knowledge.
Also this game is based on team work. What team is that if you exclude everyone who has a,lower level then you? specialy in areas where they allready met all requirments nessecary?

My record for 1-80 with no crafting is 21 hours and why would your want to level through dungeons, it slows your leveling by up to 5×.
edit: forgot to mention this was one week, and I work full time…

ShroomOneUp.6913:

Broadicea.8294:

Dude it takes like a week to get to 80.

I don´t know if you are an adult goin work, a highschool student or goin to middle school or what ever.
But i can tell you that making 80 levels in one week required either way to specific ways of doin so OR much time investment, which most poeple can not effort due to time constrains or other reasons.

further more it was not entirly based on gain Exp to level, as i stated it helps for exsample newcomers or people who play a new class to get used to that class in circumstances given by doungens.
It also will help the doungen farmers in a long term, because if Low Level learn the doungens NOW they will be MORE doungen farmers at level 80 later on.
I´ve seen enough 80s who had NO idea whats the hell was goin on due to lack of knowledge.
Also this game is based on team work. What team is that if you exclude everyone who has a,lower level then you? specialy in areas where they allready met all requirments nessecary?

Also if you have the gold you can craft to 80 in less than 10 hours.
Seriously though, just join a guild. I am sure they don’t mind taking along a lower level character as long as it’s not too low for the dungeon itself.

Just to be more constructive, if you want to gain xp through actually playing rather than spending the money on crafting (which is screwed up now thanks to ascended) make sure you always have active:

both food types
XP booster
killstreak booster

And just run through level-appropriate zones chaining events. You’ll get even more if you do an invasion event. One invasion with all XP boosters up should give you something like 6 or 7 levels.

And you’re simply wrong about not being able to join dungeon groups under 80. It’s somewhat more prevalent outside of AC, but there is no shortage of “all classes welcome, sub 80 welcome” groups forming up for AC.

I would like to see a proof how level 35 (or similar) does more damage than level 80.

The stats different is probably not that big. Biggest different is probably from trait.

I’m pretty sure there are enough low level that they can form their own group. Problem is everyone want to group with optimzed group for easier run.

Aka, most of the low level people don’t even want to group with themself. And most people with high level just join 80 only group and switch to alt in the end.

The truth is if I make a post which says non80 new player only, I’m sure many people will try to avoid it even for those people who are non 80 or new. That is how people are.

stats compare in AC story.

level30 dps guardian in blue
level80 support guardian in exotic/ascended
level30 dps guardian with support trait in blue

level 30(dps) level80 level30(balance)
power 496 406 396
percision 466 411 381
toughness 206 401 306
vitality 206 318 306
condition damage 100 22 0
Boon duration 0 0 0
critical damage 6 12 16
agony resistence 0 6 0
attack 810 745 713
critical chance 56 48% 39%
armor 492 730 592
health 2292 3412 3292
condition duration 10% 0% 0
healing power 0 67 100
virtual recharge rate 0 0 0
magic find 12 12 12
HP 2407 3583 3457

ShroomOneUp.6913:

And I get those elitist deleted due to extended cursing involving a banana people will not change their mind because rather enjoying their game they want to have everythign as fast as possible.

Hi, Scumbag elitist here, how may I be of service to you today?

laokoko.7403:

The stats different is probably not that big. Biggest different is probably from trait.

I’m pretty sure there are enough low level that they can form their own group. Problem is everyone want to group with optimzed group for easier run.

Aka, most of the low level people don’t even want to group with themself. And most people with high level just join 80 only group and switch to alt in the end.

The truth is if I make a post which says non80 new player only, I’m sure many people will try to avoid it even for those people who are non 80 or new. That is how people are.

stats compare in AC story.

level30 dps guardian in blue
level80 support guardian in exotic/ascended
level30 dps guardian with support trait in blue

level 30(dps) level80 level30(balance)
power 496 406 396
percision 466 411 381
toughness 206 401 306
vitality 206 318 306
condition damage 100 22 0
Boon duration 0 0 0
critical damage 6 12 16
agony resistence 0 6 0
attack 810 745 713
critical chance 56 48% 39%
armor 492 730 592
health 2292 3412 3292
condition duration 10% 0% 0
healing power 0 67 100
virtual recharge rate 0 0 0
magic find 12 12 12
HP 2407 3583 3457

your comparing a guardian with pow/prec gear to some trash stat armor, try comparing full dps spec guardians

level80 guardian in full berserker 20/30/10/0/0, ascended jewel and ascended weapon. In AC story

power 534
percision 457
toughness 252
vitality 206
condition damage 67
Boon duration 0
critical damage 19
agony resistence 0
attack 875
critical chance 59%
armor 581
health 2292
condition duration 30
healing power 0
virtual recharge rate 0
magic find 106
HP 2361

Clumsy.6257:

your comparing a guardian with pow/prec gear to some trash stat armor, try comparing full dps spec guardians

That’s the best I can do under the circumstance I have at that time. I just happened to get a full set of berserker gear now. See post above. But I think the difference is larger if you include the trait, for example some trait give 15% dmg or 15% more crit chance etc.

Either way in most pug, a lower level group tend to be slower. Because they have a higher tendency to be new players or player that are new to their class.

The reason why people won’t take you is because your probably use fine or masterwork gear, don’t have a lot of experience with the game if you aren’t 80, and you will generally slow the entire group down. Honestly, it’s not that hard to get to 80 and get some decent rare/exotic gear.

yeah, when leveling my alts I waited until hitting 80 before running any dungeons. besides, it’s more fun rocking t3 cultural than doing content in some crap looking masterwork

ShroomOneUp.6913:

Also this game is based on team work. What team is that if you exclude everyone who has a,lower level then you? specialy in areas where they allready met all requirments nessecary?

What team player are you that you demand to lower the overall efficiency of a team that doesn’t want you in the first place because you feel an undeserved sense of entitlement to be on their team?

Whining about people’s tastes and desires are not going to change those tastes and desires. The onus on you to be worth taking, not them to have the privilege of bringing you along.

why dont you post “low level only” at lfg.com?
you claim low lvl character’s stat is better than 80’s at low level dungeon.
so in your opinion, your party will be filled with better toons,
furthermore, you dont need argue this with others like this post.
probelm solved.
but we both know, thats not gonna happen.
most people will not join that party either 80’s or low lvl.
they have their own reason each.

real problem is selfishness.
people hate low level users because not only they’re low level.
because they come to party with alts eventhough they have 80’,
and let others force to help lvling his own alts without himself’s efforts.
i would gladly carry low level users with 300 ap at dungeon. you know what i mean.
people’s common excuse is “i’m so experienced that can do this with my alts”
sorry but if they dont know difference with thier 80’s between low lvl alts.
that means they’re suck at 80’ or insensibility..
eitherway, they’re not experienced at all.
if they know their 80’s better, and still say that line, they’re just selfish.
at least they should do with 80’s till at the last boss, and change back to alts
only with easy last boss.

laokoko.7403:

level80 guardian in full berserker 20/30/10/0/0, ascended jewel and ascended weapon. In AC story

power 534
percision 457
toughness 252
vitality 206
condition damage 67
Boon duration 0
critical damage 19
agony resistence 0
attack 875
critical chance 59%
armor 581
health 2292
condition duration 30
healing power 0
virtual recharge rate 0
magic find 106
HP 2361

You have 10 unspent trait points…

^ It is 30/30/10/0/0. I made a mistake posting.

Level 35 Masterwork breastplate has 26/19 stats.
Level 80 Exotic has 101/72 stats. Scaled down those become: 28.23/20.12

Lv80 exotic has a 3rd stat on it, though. It might be better to use an alternative knight’s set instead of your usual berserker in places like AC i’d say, since 12% or so crit damage isn’t going to change much, where the added 200-300(?) toughness is a game changer. I don’t have any knight armor on any of my characters though so i’ll just stay with my berserker/assassins

Its wonderful to ee depsite me saying that it doesn´t make sense to argue, since everybody has their own opinion, everbyody argues about that instead of offering some ideas how it might work out anyway.
A-Net showed with the upgrade world boss that they want team work and tactics rather jsut gear and “piniata smash the boss” gameplay in pve.
All i wanted is for YOU to discuss HOW A-Net can do that with the rest of the allready existing content known as doungens.

I usually just politely ask if I can bring my low level alt and if that fails, I just ask if I can switch at the end of the dungeon, most are ok with this, now this will be a problem if you don’t already have lv 80 toon, but imo for your first character there’s plenty of new content besides dungeons and you always can just do dungeon stories – there people usually are just happy to find someone and they don’t care if you’re not lv 80.

colesy.8490:

Besides, it’s more fun rocking t3 cultural than doing content in some crap looking masterwork

This guy gets it. Why would I allow some ugly character into my run when I could have a sexy T3 Norn Heavy? Or a T3 Human Medium? It’s all about morale son and you offer none being in greens and blues.

Seriously though, like Broadicea said get one class to 80 by Open world exploring and events (which a lot of level 80’s do now anyway because events are so profitable.) Then switch out to a low level toon at the end of the dungeon to get the experience.

Why not just run upscaled? I will tell you. The reason people struggle with upscale would be because they aren’t practiced with that profession and/or they don’t have access to GM traits. In reality, with good play and a solid understanding of game mechanics, it’s perfectly fine.

Excluding certain paths like tafu, I have never kicked any sub80s for any sub80 dungeons provided they are at least at the recommended min lvl. Even for those paths, what I would do is to advise them to go other paths for sub80s. There has been cases where I left parties because sub80s purposefully wanted me to carry them through (to the extent that they kick other 80s who do not know the dungeons and kept me in). I am perfectly fine if sub80s can carry their own weight, which in most cases prior experience in dungeons will suffice in that.

But for all sub80 dungeons, there are some aspects that are indeed catered for 80s. Tokens all exchange for exotics with 80req for example.

And as some have said before me, sub80s generally means inexperience with the class. You can’t change the way others perceive this.

ShroomOneUp.6913:

Some of you mihgt now want to argue that its always faster with 80s.
And I will argue that afew guys on this forum allready found out that low level actually make slightly more dmg then 80s.

This is just not true. It’s simply not mathematically possible so I’m calling you a liar until you post some proof.

There’s a very simple solution to your problem: create your own group. Invite only low leveled players. If you don’t have the time or social skills to do this then it’s your own problem.

Well, last I heard they do upscale to do slightly more damage. The reasoning ANET uses, as far as I understand, is because they don’t have grandmaster traits. If someone has a clear explanation of this, please post.

I’m really disappointed that the original poster has got such a bad response from the forum community. The dungeons are primarily designed to be run on level for barter tokens. They are also designed to be repeatable content for game end rewards (like empyreal). The two communities should work together and enjoy the dungeon runs for shared rewards.

It makes me wonder why some people even play this game at all when any extra time spent doing anything is seen as a burden and chore. The low level characters should not be the ones going out of their way to make dungeons easier for high level characters with top gear. In a good MMO community the experienced players would be willing to set their time aside to help new players and make new online friends. The pervasive selfishness seen in this game is sometimes quite astounding.

They don’t have to “go out of their way”, they can just party with their own kind.

Yes, that’s right, I’m a segregationist.

Except experienced players have tried helping people countless times but they don’t want to listen.

“melee the tree in TAFU, evading the spawns and put up reflects”

“no”

“uhhh….ok dont then :/”

—

“berserker gear is the strongest gear for dungeons”

“I play how I want, my mace/shield cleric guardian does big heals”

“uhhh….ok then :/”

Stooperdale.3560:

It makes me wonder why some people even play this game at all when any extra time spent doing anything is seen as a burden and chore. The low level characters should not be the ones going out of their way to make dungeons easier for high level characters with top gear. In a good MMO community the experienced players would be willing to set their time aside to help new players and make new online friends. The pervasive selfishness seen in this game is sometimes quite astounding.

I just want to input my own take to this.

If party members are sub80 but have prior dungeon experience, it really doesn’t matter too much. Things might be non-optimal here and there but to me, it isn’t something I will scrutinize at all when I PuG.

If party members are sub80 and are also non-experienced with dungeons, these runs will be what I will treat as teaching runs. These will actually take effort and energy. I actually do teaching PuG runs (with and without notice beforehand) and due to disparity of the how ppl are as a whole, sometimes these runs do tire me out. Which is can be quite different from what I expect when I game for leisure. Note that I am talking about complete strangers here.

While I do agree that how a community should ideally be, it simply isn’t so and this extends to both 80s and sub80s.

That’s because dungeons are essentially 80-only. There are two factors contributing to this. First, leveling a character to 80 takes days, not weeks, months or even the years of some other MMOs. Second, it’s actually counter-productive to level your character in any gear nicer than “green”, which is dirt cheap via the TP.

MMOs are all long-term games. Everyone is expected to play for quite some time. Years is typical if you like the game. Considering the likely total duration a player will spend in an MMO, if you can’t put at most perhaps two weeks of casual effort to learn, level, and gear one character (at least all yellow/rare for a new GW2 80) before grouping, MMOs are not for you.

I miss the early days when a group of 50s would gather together to do AC exploreable and CM explorable. It is still more than possible to do.

Of course, I’m a “come what may” kind of guy. As long as the player has the minimum level required for the dungeon and level appropriate gear, I’ll take them.

probably because most people don’t have time to babysit the low levels…

and , yes, dude.. it takes only a week to get to 80…..

Hahaha, I got like 5 sentences in and cracked up, this forum is gold.

I don’t get it, why are you complaining, you get paid to do AC in EU…

I can’t imagine why no one wanted you in their party. Underleveled and undergeared with a drug reference name. That wouldn’t set off any red flags for me.

colesy.8490:

Except experienced players have tried helping people countless times but they don’t want to listen.

“melee the tree in TAFU, evading the spawns and put up reflects”

“no”

“uhhh….ok dont then :/”

—

“berserker gear is the strongest gear for dungeons”

“I play how I want, my mace/shield cleric guardian does big heals”

“uhhh….ok then :/”

It’s ok to point out which skills may help in one or other situation, however expecting everyone, especially newbies, to run in zerker gear is a total nonsense, because
a) most people are not good enough for pure zerker gear, maybe suggestible for cof p1, but stilll, not necessary and there’s NOTHING worse than a zerker wannabe, who faceplants every 10 seconds, which often may lead to group-wipes, until everyone just stops ressing him altogether.
b) in harder dungeons and higher fractals zerker gear is just not good enough, no matter how good you are, sooner or later you’ll mess up, yea, with zerker gear you’ll kill everything quicker, but if one mistake = being downed it simply just not worth it, it’s much more advantageous to have a balanced build in the long run.

Oddly, and perhaps embarassingly, I have a harder time Zerkering in CoF than I do in just about every other dungeon and it’s solely because of the flamethrower guys. I can do other dungeons no problem, but everytime I run into those flamethrower guys, I feel like an idiot.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Oddly, and perhaps embarassingly, I have a harder time Zerkering in CoF than I do in just about every other dungeon and it’s solely because of the flamethrower guys. I can do other dungeons no problem, but everytime I run into those flamethrower guys, I feel like an idiot.

I’m glad I’m not the only one, I’ve been afraid to say it

Broadicea.8294:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Oddly, and perhaps embarassingly, I have a harder time Zerkering in CoF than I do in just about every other dungeon and it’s solely because of the flamethrower guys. I can do other dungeons no problem, but everytime I run into those flamethrower guys, I feel like an idiot.

I’m glad I’m not the only one, I’ve been afraid to say it

Flamethrower confirmed OP when in enemy hands.

That entire first room of p1, I only know how to do it the right way, so when I go in with pugs and there’s no pull (of course there isn’t), and there’s no feedback (of course there isn’t) and the sentries don’t die in 5 seconds (of course they don’t), I panic and usually end up downing or getting very close to it.

Last time I put a WoR in the first room with pugs the other guardian used GS#5 and pulled the two mobs to the middle, two persons downed. When i’m on my ele I always end that fight with a sliver of health.

Syn Sity.5826:

Hahaha, I got like 5 sentences in and cracked up, this forum is gold.

Pretty sure the OP been eating to many shrooms.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I can’t imagine why no one wanted you in their party. Underleveled and undergeared with a drug reference name. That wouldn’t set off any red flags for me.

haha the old gaga super mario eats mushroom because they are drugs ahahahahaha

Diviner.7405:

Syn Sity.5826:

Hahaha, I got like 5 sentences in and cracked up, this forum is gold.

Pretty sure the OP been eating to many shrooms.

yet again wonderful exsample of not contributing anything. and yet again MARIO EATS MUSHROOMS HAHA FUNNY BECAUSE MUSHROOM CAN BE DRUGS TOO HAHAHA

How are you guys having trouble with cof p1, if not for the boulders and gates, you could easily solo it, with proper gear and skills.

Wethospu.6437:

Level 35 Masterwork breastplate has 26/19 stats.
Level 80 Exotic has 101/72 stats. Scaled down those become: 28.23/20.12

Level 35 Rare has 21/29 stats.

Broadicea.8294:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Oddly, and perhaps embarassingly, I have a harder time Zerkering in CoF than I do in just about every other dungeon and it’s solely because of the flamethrower guys. I can do other dungeons no problem, but everytime I run into those flamethrower guys, I feel like an idiot.

I’m glad I’m not the only one, I’ve been afraid to say it

It’s not you, it’s your party. Here’s how to do those with 3 players in about 5s: start on top of the gate. Do NOT wait for them to charge through the gate. Have your puller (mesmer, guardian) pull them against the wall the instant the gate opens. Your warrior should be doing GS/5 while the mesmer does this. Then GS/2&3. Mesmer GS/5 when they start flaming. They’re now dead.

This way you have your stack, your KDs to keep them from flaming, and your DPS all in one spot. If you have your full party of 5 on top of the gate for this, it’s often over before I can hit GS/5 on my mesmer to KD the flaming.

Also, while guardian and mesmer are the best pullers, the small space inside the area past the gate does make it easier if you bring bad-for-dungeons classes. We did it with 4 rangers and an elementalist the other day just for variety.

Use similar tactics for all the flamers. Put them against a wall. KD them when they flame. Let the melee stack rip them up. Ultra easy when the rest of the party works to setup things to let the stack DPS; ie. getting in there and DPS’ing them while they flame is your job. It’s your party’s job to wall and KD them so you can do yours.

I’m not really wanting to read through all of this, but I believe the issue is that most people won’t or don’t want to optimize their gear at level 35. It’s 1000 times easier to find a lvl 80 with at least full rare (most likely full exotic/ascended trinkets) than it is to find a lvl 35 with full rares. Most of them don’t even have at level masterwork.