Guild Wars 2

fixing forum bug!!!

Astralporing.1957:

Sykper.6583:

I know you do realize that there is a substantial voice for the easy-modes being an alternative for these rewards. For instance, Raiders have given their opinion a while ago about not being opposed to having Legendary Armor being made available in another area of the game (a different skin though) and that simply isn’t enough apparently.

It’s not enough, because, let’s be honest, what are the chances of Anet doing a second set of legendary armor anytime soon, considering how long it takes them to do the current one?

If there was an actual, real chance of getting a second set of legendary armor throughout non-raid means, lot of complains would go down. Unfortunately, that chance currently is somewhere around nil.

well nobody knows only the devs we can speculate but i dought that will get us anywhere but im sure the devs can see that alot of ppl want other legendary armors in other gamemodes.

Blaeys.3102:

I have zero interest in legendary armor, so I can see both sides of that argument.

There is a deeper question related to Legendary Armor though – and that is, what comes after raiders start getting it.

If things go as planned, legendary armor will be coming around the time of the next living story update. I suspect, not long after that, you will start to see quite a few people in it.

And once that carrot has been eaten, what will happen to raids? Not only will it become the exclusive playground of the players conforming to build wars, but it will most likely lose the percentage of that subset that tires of killing everything every week once they get their reward.

That will leave Anet with a pretty serious quandary – either come up with something else ultra nice to offer as an exclusive reward or watch raid participation dwindle considerably. If they choose the prior, the more they offer those ultra nice rewards, the wider the gap between raiders and non-raiders in terms of prestige and recognition by the devs.

Surely even the strongest opponents of story modes can see the problem with this and the potential negative long term impact it could have.

The answer, imo, is to forego additional ultra nice rewards and open the experience to more people – use tiered difficulty to keep the game mode active and alive instead. Still reserve the current set of legendary weapons and future weapon skins, minis and titles for those doing the harder version, but use tiered difficulty to keep the number of people enjoying the content up.

Again, the alternative to that solution is not healthy for the game long term.

To reinforce, I have no issue whatsoever with the current one time legendary armor reward as a symbol of achievement for those completing the first raids at the hardest difficulty – but beyond that I firmly believe Anet will hurt the game without making some kind of compromises on the this issue.

ehhh if ppl biggest factor for doing raids was the armor then they wouldnt run it after they aquired the needed collection parts. Theres a plethora of items that you can aquire through raids that create interest to run them (exlusive skins, titles, ap, minis, an infusion etc ) and the more raids release the more this list will grow. And well the rewards for doing the raids are ok (they could use use some buffs but they are ok atm)

Blaeys.3102:

I have zero interest in legendary armor, so I can see both sides of that argument.

There is a deeper question related to Legendary Armor though – and that is, what comes after raiders start getting it.

If things go as planned, legendary armor will be coming around the time of the next living story update. I suspect, not long after that, you will start to see quite a few people in it.

And once that carrot has been eaten, what will happen to raids? Not only will it become the exclusive playground of the players conforming to build wars, but it will most likely lose the percentage of that subset that tires of killing everything every week once they get their reward.

That will leave Anet with a pretty serious quandary – either come up with something else ultra nice to offer as an exclusive reward or watch raid participation dwindle considerably. If they choose the prior, the more they offer those ultra nice rewards, the wider the gap between raiders and non-raiders in terms of prestige and recognition by the devs.

Surely even the strongest opponents of story modes can see the problem with this and the potential negative long term impact it could have.

The answer, imo, is to forego additional ultra nice rewards and open the experience to more people – use tiered difficulty to keep the game mode active and alive instead. Still reserve the current set of legendary weapons and future weapon skins, minis and titles for those doing the harder version, but use tiered difficulty to keep the number of people enjoying the content up.

Again, the alternative to that solution is not healthy for the game long term.

To reinforce, I have no issue whatsoever with the current one time legendary armor reward as a symbol of achievement for those completing the first raids at the hardest difficulty – but beyond that I firmly believe Anet will hurt the game without making some kind of compromises on the this issue.

If the raid community shrinks to an extent that it’s almost impossible to find groups because too few people playing raids I’m sure Anet will simplify them. It’s a common modus operandi in the gaming sector.

The important word is if here… As long as this exodus won’t become an issue there’s no reason to change anything.

Of course, this is my opinion, you and some others have a different one but I think it’s more than obvious that your side is not the one that is relevant for Anet and their raids.

Blaeys.3102:

That will leave Anet with a pretty serious quandary – either come up with something else ultra nice to offer as an exclusive reward or watch raid participation dwindle considerably.

A lot of players who want Legendary Armor already have all the components from Raids and yet they still run them. The Legendary Armor is not the only reason Raids are being run.

As for the next reward from Raids, I suspect it will either be a backpack or some form of jewelry (legendary amulet?). Backpacks are already rewards in other types of content, and jewelry can be added to other content types easily, unlike armor which takes years (apparently) to create.

So it’s a win-win, Raiders will get a new carrot, and that carrot either already exists in other forms, or it can be added easily to other types of content.

Astralporing.1957:

yann.1946:

I think the gamemode should be changed to be more enjoyablefor the target audience not for someone Else.

First you’d want that audience be big enough to support the gamemode. That is why Anet is messing so much with sPvP lately, even sometimes against wishes of pvp veterans. A gamemode that depends completely on a small number of veterans and lack a steady influx of new players is a gamemode that will either be changed eventually, or get abandoned completely.

The thing is, a hypothetical easy mode for raids would do very little at best to draw or keep players in the game. Because the game already has this type of content and it does that already. It’s just a lot of effort (you basically have to rebalance every single encounter, not to mention you might need to redesign some completely) for a dubious effect. Hence, I don’t expect ANet to actually do that.

I’m surprised this thread is still going.

It’s still going because it is still a significant concern for many people – and rather than start a dozen new threads, they searched and found one on the topic to post in, as directed by the forum conduct code (or Anet merged their thread into this one).

Blaeys.3102:

It’s still going because it is still a significant concern for many people – and rather than start a dozen new threads, they searched and found one on the topic to post in, as directed by the forum conduct code (or Anet merged their thread into this one).

I only pop in now when I don’t have time to play the games I’m actually playing and paying.

These forums are still a guilty pleasure, like looking up an ex on Facebook.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Blaeys.3102:

It’s still going because it is still a significant concern for many people – and rather than start a dozen new threads, they searched and found one on the topic to post in, as directed by the forum conduct code (or Anet merged their thread into this one).

I only pop in now when I don’t have time to play the games I’m actually playing and paying.

These forums are still a guilty pleasure, like looking up an ex on Facebook.

what games you playing now?

zealex.9410:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Blaeys.3102:

It’s still going because it is still a significant concern for many people – and rather than start a dozen new threads, they searched and found one on the topic to post in, as directed by the forum conduct code (or Anet merged their thread into this one).

I only pop in now when I don’t have time to play the games I’m actually playing and paying.

These forums are still a guilty pleasure, like looking up an ex on Facebook.

what games you playing now?

They said WoW and ESO, over in the Necro forums. Which, given I left WoW for here, doesn’t seem like an unreasonable jump, though … I just couldn’t go back to the stand and thump combat again. I just couldn’t do it.

I really don’t understand people who seem to think there’s some significant story in between boss fights. Coming from someone who has completed every raid boss. Take it from me when i say there isn’t. Every single small bit of story comes from completed instances which are easy to get into. Matthias cutscene, lazaras’s fate, and the cutscene after deimos. ALL can be seen in completed instances.

I think a lot of people miss the point -

This has never been about difficult or easy. It is about adding to raids – not detracting from them. It is about expanding the experience of raids to a wider range of players – something that would be good for everyone, imo.

Blaeys.3102:

This has never been about difficult or easy. It is about adding to raids – not detracting from them. It is about expanding the experience of raids to a wider range of players – something that would be good for everyone, imo.

Before launch, explorable dungeons were billed as challenging content aimed at “coordinated teams of skilled players.” If that’s not a single-phrase description of what raids have been in other games, then there is no such description. On the face of it, it seems that raids in GW2 are designed to fill that role in the game, a role that explorable dungeons failed at.

WoW introduced LFR because its endgame is built around the gear treadmill inherent in the dungeon/raid cycles inherent in each level cap raise. GW2 endgame features a lot of other options for endgame pursuit. If it didn’t, I’d be with you. Since it does, I see your assertion as a desire to have everything that GW2 offers aimed at your small demographic. That’s not something any development house can offer.

If a new raid comes out and all teams are figuring out tactics theyll just do it in es mode and spoil themself on mechanics of bosses afterte first lol

Blaeys.3102:

I think a lot of people miss the point -

This has never been about difficult or easy. It is about adding to raids – not detracting from them. It is about expanding the experience of raids to a wider range of players – something that would be good for everyone, imo.

Not really.

If expanding comes at the cost of the identity then it’s not worth the cost, nor is it good for everyone. It’s just good for those who didn’t care to join in on the original difficulty level.

Not everyone needs to do everything thats the beauty of gw2 to me. If you don’t want to get into something that doesnt mean that part of the game is not allowing you to enter, its your choice.

peeterske.9134:

If a new raid comes out and all teams are figuring out tactics theyll just do it in es mode and spoil themself on mechanics of bosses afterte first lol

Who said it had to get out at the same time?
Could release easy mode 2-3months after the normal one no serious raider would wait that time to start learning the mechanics of the new raid.

TexZero.7910:

Blaeys.3102:

I think a lot of people miss the point -

This has never been about difficult or easy. It is about adding to raids – not detracting from them. It is about expanding the experience of raids to a wider range of players – something that would be good for everyone, imo.

Not really.

If expanding comes at the cost of the identity then it’s not worth the cost, nor is it good for everyone. It’s just good for those who didn’t care to join in on the original difficulty level.

Well, the same could be said about introducting the current raids, don’t you think? Why it was okay then, but it’s suddenly a bad idea now?

TexZero.7910:

Blaeys.3102:

I think a lot of people miss the point -

This has never been about difficult or easy. It is about adding to raids – not detracting from them. It is about expanding the experience of raids to a wider range of players – something that would be good for everyone, imo.

Not really.

If expanding comes at the cost of the identity then it’s not worth the cost, nor is it good for everyone. It’s just good for those who didn’t care to join in on the original difficulty level.

I dont think raids have been around long enough to say they have an established identity in the game. As with all things when they are first introduced, you have continually evaluate what works and what doesn’t, as well as the impact on the bigger picture.

While raids are accomplishing their goal – bringing more challenging content to the game – I think it is fair to say they are having a negative impact on portion of the playerbase. Whether you agree with the logic or not, many players are feeling disenfranchised from the game – they no longer feel like the hero of the story. Without having to compromise on their character’s identity (build and playstyle), they are essentially blocked from a fun piece of the end game experience.

With that in mind, it makes sense that ArenaNet would work to develop a solution – one that retains the integrity of the challenge while still offering the players I describe above the experiences associated with the content (again, experience being a key word – a cleared instance, NPC text or youtube video does nothing to create that for a player).

I know there are people that will never accept this. I would strongly encourage them to take a step back and look at it from a larger, gamewide perspective.

Blaeys.3102:

TexZero.7910:

Blaeys.3102:

I think a lot of people miss the point -

This has never been about difficult or easy. It is about adding to raids – not detracting from them. It is about expanding the experience of raids to a wider range of players – something that would be good for everyone, imo.

Not really.

If expanding comes at the cost of the identity then it’s not worth the cost, nor is it good for everyone. It’s just good for those who didn’t care to join in on the original difficulty level.

I dont think raids have been around long enough to say they have an established identity in the game. As with all things when they are first introduced, you have continually evaluate what works and what doesn’t, as well as the impact on the bigger picture.

While raids are accomplishing their goal – bringing more challenging content to the game – I think it is fair to say they are having a negative impact on portion of the playerbase. Whether you agree with the logic or not, many players are feeling disenfranchised from the game – they no longer feel like the hero of the story. Without having to compromise on their character’s identity (build and playstyle), they are essentially blocked from a fun piece of the end game experience.

With that in mind, it makes sense that ArenaNet would work to develop a solution – one that retains the integrity of the challenge while still offering the players I describe above the experiences associated with the content (again, experience being a key word – a cleared instance, NPC text or youtube video does nothing to create that for a player).

I know there are people that will never accept this. I would strongly encourage them to take a step back and look at it from a larger, gamewide perspective.

Remind me again why solo players should ever be relevant in the design process of group content ?

You want to be the hero of your story fine. You can do that. You want to be the hero of an optional group side story, you dang well better work as a teamplayer and part of a group.

If you feel disenfranchised then that’s no one’s fault but your own.

At this point Anet has bent over backwards to get this type of player into raids even lowering some of the difficulty of their designs to add a notion of increasing difficulty in the wings while also giving you the ability to view all lore related content via glenna.

They don’t need to do any more on this front, it’s on the people who isolate themselves now to man up and either play the mode or get of the soapbox.

Ehh no you are not blocked from it you or they simply don’t choose to get into it. Look, i would be perfectly fine with them having an ez mode. I understand not everyone has the time to train for hours, they simply want to spend their time doing something fun for them.
But this isnt wow or any other raiding centric game the raid team is small and the resources limited and i will not accept lowering the bar of quality and experience they provide for some easy mode.

Also, what do you want from raids? Is it the lore or the experience/excitement players feel when doing them? The first i can understand you want to simply experience the story and ok i suppose that a good enough reason for ez mode but the latter its a nono, you will never get the experience ppl have been praising the raid team for with anything other than the original. Defenately not something easier.

zealex.9410:

Ehh no you are not blocked from it you or they simply don’t choose to get into it. Look, i would be perfectly fine with them having an ez mode. I understand not everyone has the time to train for hours, they simply want to spend their time doing something fun for them.
But this isnt wow or any other raiding centric game the raid team is small and the resources limited and i will not accept lowering the bar of quality and experience they provide for some easy mode.

Also, what do you want from raids? Is it the lore or the experience/excitement players feel when doing them? The first i can understand you want to simply experience the story and ok i suppose that a good enough reason for ez mode but the latter its a nono, you will never get the experience ppl have been praising the raid team for with anything other than the original. Defenately not something easier.

Thank you for making a level headed argument.

You make a good point about the experience – yes, it would differ from the hardcore experience simply by the nature of difficult vs easy.

I still think it is worth doing for several reasons. As you note, the story experience is one, but it isnt the only one.

Another is to keep a healthy interest in raids long term. When the carrot of legendary armor comes and goes, I foresee the developers having a hard time with numbers (unless they add a ton of new unique rewards, which would be a very bad idea). Raids will need more players simply to maintain justification for ongoing development.

Yet another reason is to let the raid writers out of the box. Right now, any interesting story in raids will be seen as a negative by many in the community. Opening up the experience lifts that restriction. The narrative could then go in pretty much any direction, opening up greater experience and making them feel more interesting.

And, the biggest for me, is that it evens the playing field for those who play less around the numbers/math of the game and more around the unique feel of their character. Yes the raid can be beaten in blues and greens by most classes when played by people who have mastered the fight, but that is the exception, not the rule (and I think the people saying that know that very well). Tiered difficulties give players the ability to play as the hero they want to be rather than the one Anet forces them to be.

Finally, since it was brought up earlier – it is something the community has asked for since the developers first said the word raid. Go back and read the CDI with Chris Whitesides. The top three most requested features (by a wide margin) throughout that thread were tiered difficulty, scaling and accessibility. The fact that there are only a few of us still making noise on this subforum has more to do with being belittled and browbeaten (just look at some of the posts on this very page – if they havent been deleted – for prime examples) than it does with a lack of desire for this kind of content (for another example, take a look at news sites like massivelyop and mmorpg – and other forums like reddit – there is a much different feel to any raid related discussion there).

Again, thanks for remaining productive and civil. I continue to believe this is a conversation worth having – and hope it is one devs are paying attention to.

Blaeys.3102:

Yes the raid can be beaten in blues and greens by most classes when played by people who have mastered the fight, but that is the exception, not the rule (and I think the people saying that know that very well). Tiered difficulties give players the ability to play as the hero they want to be rather than the one Anet forces them to be.

No one is forced to play their character any other way than the way that they want to, but they are expected to put in the time and effort to learn the raid and to master it.

You keep going back to people are forced into a meta. NO, they are not forced, if they are feeling forced, then they are with the wrong group of people.

You can learn a raid in whatever build you want, so long as it fills the role that it is being brought for, you do not have to wait until you have mastered the raid to run what you want.

As Ive stated before, there will always be people that wont get this point.

We need to step out of our “sides” and boxed in perspectives and look at this issue from the larger game wide point of view.

And, yes, forced was probably too strong a word, but the idea that raids offer reasonable accessibility for both a zerker fresh air elementalist and a hammer scrapper or monster inspired necromancer simply doesn’t hold water in the actual game. If anyone just getting into raids needs evidence of that, just go and try to pug for a few days or try to form a group of like minded individuals. I strongly encourage them to try – but I think most of us can guess the results in 9/10 cases already.

Blaeys.3102:

As Ive stated before, there will always be people that wont get this point.

We need to step out of our “sides” and boxed in perspectives and look at this issue from the larger game wide point of view.

And, yes, forced was probably too strong a word, but the idea that raids offer reasonable accessibility for both a zerker fresh air elementalist and a hammer scrapper or monster inspired necromancer simply doesn’t hold water in the actual game. If anyone just getting into raids needs evidence of that, just go and try to pug for a few days or try to form a group of like minded individuals. I strongly encourage them to try – but I think most of us can guess the results in 9/10 cases already.

I pugged for almost all of my LI, nearly at 200 now. it’s not as bad as you seem to think.

Blaeys.3102:

As Ive stated before, there will always be people that wont get this point.

We need to step out of our “sides” and boxed in perspectives and look at this issue from the larger game wide point of view.

And, yes, forced was probably too strong a word, but the idea that raids offer reasonable accessibility for both a zerker fresh air elementalist and a hammer scrapper or monster inspired necromancer simply doesn’t hold water in the actual game. If anyone just getting into raids needs evidence of that, just go and try to pug for a few days or try to form a group of like minded individuals. I strongly encourage them to try – but I think most of us can guess the results in 9/10 cases already.

The game offers the same accessibility for all of those playstyles you mentioned, they are all viable in raids. Pugs don’t offer the same accessibility, and it isn’t up to Anet to control what Pugs want.

Seriously, go put together a group of friends (specifically stay away from PuGs, unless you can find some of a similar mindset), go wail away on VG. So long as no one messes up on mechanics and pressure is covered (hello heals and tank), you can beat it. Will it go past the enrage timer, most likely, but hitting the enrage timer isn’t the end all of the encounter, so long as mechanics are still being dealt with and not missed.

Blaeys.3102:

As Ive stated before, there will always be people that wont get this point.

We need to step out of our “sides” and boxed in perspectives and look at this issue from the larger game wide point of view.

And, yes, forced was probably too strong a word, but the idea that raids offer reasonable accessibility for both a zerker fresh air elementalist and a hammer scrapper or monster inspired necromancer simply doesn’t hold water in the actual game. If anyone just getting into raids needs evidence of that, just go and try to pug for a few days or try to form a group of like minded individuals. I strongly encourage them to try – but I think most of us can guess the results in 9/10 cases already.

The point is, if bosses are dumbed down to an extent where you can take every class with every build, the magic and fascinating surroundings of an epic battle is gone. And that’s what raids offer. It is a place to reach the limit (for some and/or pugs). The overal casual wanting to take a step into raids would be heavily disappointed if he notices that his group is clearing an easy mode raid in a shorter amount of time than AC exp mode because in some raid wings are less encounters than in these catacombs.

Blaeys.3102:

zealex.9410:

Ehh no you are not blocked from it you or they simply don’t choose to get into it. Look, i would be perfectly fine with them having an ez mode. I understand not everyone has the time to train for hours, they simply want to spend their time doing something fun for them.
But this isnt wow or any other raiding centric game the raid team is small and the resources limited and i will not accept lowering the bar of quality and experience they provide for some easy mode.

Also, what do you want from raids? Is it the lore or the experience/excitement players feel when doing them? The first i can understand you want to simply experience the story and ok i suppose that a good enough reason for ez mode but the latter its a nono, you will never get the experience ppl have been praising the raid team for with anything other than the original. Defenately not something easier.

Thank you for making a level headed argument.

You make a good point about the experience – yes, it would differ from the hardcore experience simply by the nature of difficult vs easy.

I still think it is worth doing for several reasons. As you note, the story experience is one, but it isnt the only one.

Another is to keep a healthy interest in raids long term. When the carrot of legendary armor comes and goes, I foresee the developers having a hard time with numbers (unless they add a ton of new unique rewards, which would be a very bad idea). Raids will need more players simply to maintain justification for ongoing development.

Yet another reason is to let the raid writers out of the box. Right now, any interesting story in raids will be seen as a negative by many in the community. Opening up the experience lifts that restriction. The narrative could then go in pretty much any direction, opening up greater experience and making them feel more interesting.

And, the biggest for me, is that it evens the playing field for those who play less around the numbers/math of the game and more around the unique feel of their character. Yes the raid can be beaten in blues and greens by most classes when played by people who have mastered the fight, but that is the exception, not the rule (and I think the people saying that know that very well). Tiered difficulties give players the ability to play as the hero they want to be rather than the one Anet forces them to be.

Finally, since it was brought up earlier – it is something the community has asked for since the developers first said the word raid. Go back and read the CDI with Chris Whitesides. The top three most requested features (by a wide margin) throughout that thread were tiered difficulty, scaling and accessibility. The fact that there are only a few of us still making noise on this subforum has more to do with being belittled and browbeaten (just look at some of the posts on this very page – if they havent been deleted – for prime examples) than it does with a lack of desire for this kind of content (for another example, take a look at news sites like massivelyop and mmorpg – and other forums like reddit – there is a much different feel to any raid related discussion there).

Again, thanks for remaining productive and civil. I continue to believe this is a conversation worth having – and hope it is one devs are paying attention to.

The only way i would agree to ez mode raids would be if li didnt drop, if the unique raid skins also didnt drop and magetide shards. You can still get all the other loot, minis etc (minis are your only source of shards) and regular asc weapons and armor chest with the default skin. I would also argue that releasing the ez mode a few weeks later from the actual release is also a good idea.

And of the fact that no quality will drop from the actual raids.

I believe what i suggested here is reasonable enough no?

But yes all in all i agree that because you simply dont play the game as much you should still have the choice of what content you would like to tackle.

zealex.9410:

The only way i would agree to ez mode raids would be if li didnt drop, if the unique raid skins also didnt drop and magetide shards. You can still get all the other loot, minis etc (minis are your only source of shards) and regular asc weapons and armor chest with the default skin. I would also argue that releasing the ez mode a few weeks later from the actual release is also a good idea.

Actually, allowing LI drop in lower difficulty mode along with adding a way to convert them into magnetite shards really could help to normalize at least some of the dumb requirements, like 50 LI escort runs.

zealex.9410:

Blaeys.3102:

zealex.9410:

Ehh no you are not blocked from it you or they simply don’t choose to get into it. Look, i would be perfectly fine with them having an ez mode. I understand not everyone has the time to train for hours, they simply want to spend their time doing something fun for them.
But this isnt wow or any other raiding centric game the raid team is small and the resources limited and i will not accept lowering the bar of quality and experience they provide for some easy mode.

Also, what do you want from raids? Is it the lore or the experience/excitement players feel when doing them? The first i can understand you want to simply experience the story and ok i suppose that a good enough reason for ez mode but the latter its a nono, you will never get the experience ppl have been praising the raid team for with anything other than the original. Defenately not something easier.

Thank you for making a level headed argument.

You make a good point about the experience – yes, it would differ from the hardcore experience simply by the nature of difficult vs easy.

I still think it is worth doing for several reasons. As you note, the story experience is one, but it isnt the only one.

Another is to keep a healthy interest in raids long term. When the carrot of legendary armor comes and goes, I foresee the developers having a hard time with numbers (unless they add a ton of new unique rewards, which would be a very bad idea). Raids will need more players simply to maintain justification for ongoing development.

Yet another reason is to let the raid writers out of the box. Right now, any interesting story in raids will be seen as a negative by many in the community. Opening up the experience lifts that restriction. The narrative could then go in pretty much any direction, opening up greater experience and making them feel more interesting.

And, the biggest for me, is that it evens the playing field for those who play less around the numbers/math of the game and more around the unique feel of their character. Yes the raid can be beaten in blues and greens by most classes when played by people who have mastered the fight, but that is the exception, not the rule (and I think the people saying that know that very well). Tiered difficulties give players the ability to play as the hero they want to be rather than the one Anet forces them to be.

Finally, since it was brought up earlier – it is something the community has asked for since the developers first said the word raid. Go back and read the CDI with Chris Whitesides. The top three most requested features (by a wide margin) throughout that thread were tiered difficulty, scaling and accessibility. The fact that there are only a few of us still making noise on this subforum has more to do with being belittled and browbeaten (just look at some of the posts on this very page – if they havent been deleted – for prime examples) than it does with a lack of desire for this kind of content (for another example, take a look at news sites like massivelyop and mmorpg – and other forums like reddit – there is a much different feel to any raid related discussion there).

Again, thanks for remaining productive and civil. I continue to believe this is a conversation worth having – and hope it is one devs are paying attention to.

The only way i would agree to ez mode raids would be if li didnt drop, if the unique raid skins also didnt drop and magetide shards. You can still get all the other loot, minis etc (minis are your only source of shards) and regular asc weapons and armor chest with the default skin. I would also argue that releasing the ez mode a few weeks later from the actual release is also a good idea.

And of the fact that no quality will drop from the actual raids.

I believe what i suggested here is reasonable enough no?

But yes all in all i agree that because you simply dont play the game as much you should still have the choice of what content you would like to tackle.

I think that all sounds like a fair way to approach it.

The only thing I would add is potentially still allow magentite shards to drop (at a reduced rate), but have pnly the vanilla skin ascended boxes available at the vendor – reserving the special skins, etkittenil a player beats the content at the higher difficulty. That would give players another path to gearing for the actually difficult raid versions. Just a thought though – it really is more about accessibility, imo.

Rednik.3809:

zealex.9410:

The only way i would agree to ez mode raids would be if li didnt drop, if the unique raid skins also didnt drop and magetide shards. You can still get all the other loot, minis etc (minis are your only source of shards) and regular asc weapons and armor chest with the default skin. I would also argue that releasing the ez mode a few weeks later from the actual release is also a good idea.

Actually, allowing LI drop in lower difficulty mode along with adding a way to convert them into magnetite shards really could help to normalize at least some of the dumb requirements, like 50 LI escort runs.

yes but it would open the floud gates for inexperienced groups to join ppl who have specific requirements

Rednik.3809:

zealex.9410:

The only way i would agree to ez mode raids would be if li didnt drop, if the unique raid skins also didnt drop and magetide shards. You can still get all the other loot, minis etc (minis are your only source of shards) and regular asc weapons and armor chest with the default skin. I would also argue that releasing the ez mode a few weeks later from the actual release is also a good idea.

Actually, allowing LI drop in lower difficulty mode along with adding a way to convert them into magnetite shards really could help to normalize at least some of the dumb requirements, like 50 LI escort runs.

That’s not a requirement. That’s you making a choice to join a group of trolls.

Can anyone link the CDI i can,t seem to find it.

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.

I don’t want a solo raid, I’m offering it as an alternative, or extra, to my original suggestion: a story mode raid, with a hard-mode raid version (without all the cutscenes and dialogue) for LI’s. it is my belief that a one person instance for an elder dragon is just silly. We fought the No Life Dragon with an entire pact fleet. We fought the King of the Jungle in his mind, so a small group made some sense.
But whatever we get for Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkalakkra should be something group-ish and big-ish. And I think the current model used for raids is just fine for that. We can have a normal version with dialogue and cutscenes for the story. Then a hard mode version without all that, for people who want to do it like the real raids, and a one-person mode to make all the whiny no-friends people who don’t know what LFG is be quiet about it..

Amaimon.7823:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.

I don’t want a solo raid, I’m offering it as an alternative, or extra, to my original suggestion: a story mode raid, with a hard-mode raid version (without all the cutscenes and dialogue) for LI’s. it is my belief that a one person instance for an elder dragon is just silly. We fought the No Life Dragon with an entire pact fleet. We fought the King of the Jungle in his mind, so a small group made some sense.
But whatever we get for Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkalakkra should be something group-ish and big-ish. And I think the current model used for raids is just fine for that. We can have a normal version with dialogue and cutscenes for the story. Then a hard mode version without all that, for people who want to do it like the real raids, and a one-person mode to make all the whiny no-friends people who don’t know what LFG is be quiet about it..

We already got that for HoT, Heart and Mind and the endfight at Dragon’s Stand takes place at the same time lorewise. Much better than rehashed content and even a 10 man raid is too small for an elder dragon fight.

Miellyn.6847:

Amaimon.7823:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.

I don’t want a solo raid, I’m offering it as an alternative, or extra, to my original suggestion: a story mode raid, with a hard-mode raid version (without all the cutscenes and dialogue) for LI’s. it is my belief that a one person instance for an elder dragon is just silly. We fought the No Life Dragon with an entire pact fleet. We fought the King of the Jungle in his mind, so a small group made some sense.
But whatever we get for Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkalakkra should be something group-ish and big-ish. And I think the current model used for raids is just fine for that. We can have a normal version with dialogue and cutscenes for the story. Then a hard mode version without all that, for people who want to do it like the real raids, and a one-person mode to make all the whiny no-friends people who don’t know what LFG is be quiet about it..

We already got that for HoT, Heart and Mind and the endfight at Dragon’s Stand takes place at the same time lorewise. Much better than rehashed content and even a 10 man raid is too small for an elder dragon fight.

an open world fight against an elder dragon is also fine, but the problem would be.. well.. however cool, do we want an elder dragon to turn into grindable content? can we still take the dragons seriously, then?

Amaimon.7823:

an open world fight against an elder dragon is also fine, but the problem would be.. well.. however cool, do we want an elder dragon to turn into grindable content? can we still take the dragons seriously, then?

Do you seriously think that raids are not a grindable content?

Astralporing.1957:

Amaimon.7823:

an open world fight against an elder dragon is also fine, but the problem would be.. well.. however cool, do we want an elder dragon to turn into grindable content? can we still take the dragons seriously, then?

Do you seriously think that raids are not a grindable content?

no, and why? because only a small population can rush through them. A larger population can do them, but no one can do them more than once a week. (for rewards, that is). by grind-able I meant you can do it 4 times a day and get the full reward each time.

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

The raid mode not including any dialogue or cutscene? Might as well make jormag a big cube with no textures…

OnizukaBR.8537:

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.

I agree kitten solo mode. But no, let them have an easy mode. It will just miss the excitement the unique skins and the achievement. Actually i want them to make an easy mode so they can take endboss fights on core story mode and make the raids. Coz imho that is what can make elder dragons feels like gods and idk add a challenge mode as well with an extra phases on the bosses.

Miellyn.6847:

Amaimon.7823:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.

I don’t want a solo raid, I’m offering it as an alternative, or extra, to my original suggestion: a story mode raid, with a hard-mode raid version (without all the cutscenes and dialogue) for LI’s. it is my belief that a one person instance for an elder dragon is just silly. We fought the No Life Dragon with an entire pact fleet. We fought the King of the Jungle in his mind, so a small group made some sense.
But whatever we get for Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkalakkra should be something group-ish and big-ish. And I think the current model used for raids is just fine for that. We can have a normal version with dialogue and cutscenes for the story. Then a hard mode version without all that, for people who want to do it like the real raids, and a one-person mode to make all the whiny no-friends people who don’t know what LFG is be quiet about it..

We already got that for HoT, Heart and Mind and the endfight at Dragon’s Stand takes place at the same time lorewise. Much better than rehashed content and even a 10 man raid is too small for an elder dragon fight.

DUDE 10 champions and a small army of importand NPC’s

zealex.9410:

Miellyn.6847:

Amaimon.7823:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.

I don’t want a solo raid, I’m offering it as an alternative, or extra, to my original suggestion: a story mode raid, with a hard-mode raid version (without all the cutscenes and dialogue) for LI’s. it is my belief that a one person instance for an elder dragon is just silly. We fought the No Life Dragon with an entire pact fleet. We fought the King of the Jungle in his mind, so a small group made some sense.
But whatever we get for Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkalakkra should be something group-ish and big-ish. And I think the current model used for raids is just fine for that. We can have a normal version with dialogue and cutscenes for the story. Then a hard mode version without all that, for people who want to do it like the real raids, and a one-person mode to make all the whiny no-friends people who don’t know what LFG is be quiet about it..

We already got that for HoT, Heart and Mind and the endfight at Dragon’s Stand takes place at the same time lorewise. Much better than rehashed content and even a 10 man raid is too small for an elder dragon fight.

DUDE 10 champions and a small army of importand NPC’s

Against one of the strongest creatures of Tyria. That never made sense in any game.

That is one of the reasons I think LS1 was better executed especially during the boss fights.

Miellyn.6847:

zealex.9410:

Miellyn.6847:

Amaimon.7823:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Amaimon.7823:

I do would like to see a raid implemented in the next expansion as part of the story. And now, before you jump your guns, yes, it should have a story mode, and a solo mode.
That, or story mode and raid mode, where in raid mode all the dialogue and cutscenes are left out.

Frozen Citadel W1: Halls of the Patient
Frost Goliath (A giant beast)
Shaman of Frost, Hail and Snow (The three shamans fighting in conjunction)
Spirit of Boar (Corrupted spirit of the wild)

Frozen Citadel W2: The Claim of the Forgotten
Behemoth (A norn who, during the LS, recollected the Fang of the Serpent, and merged with it)
Yassith the Tainted (from the item set)
Event Boss: Rescue Braham (someone needs to change his diaper)
Voice of the Cold Mourning (kodan)

Frozen Citadel W3: The Great Span
(second) Claw of Jormag (like a mini dragon)
Borje Sunstrider (Braham’s papa)
Jormag, The Dwarf of the North (a homunculus body jormag made so he could interact with the spirits of the wild)
Jormag, The Elder Dragon (the big baddy)

Whats the difference between what you are suggestion and “Heart And Mind” Hot last chapter?
None, the moment you make it “solo” or easy story, its not a raid anymore, its a story content, or solo content.
Raid is group challenge content.
You want more story and solo content, you dont want raid.
So stop asking for “solo raid” because that is the same of asking for “PvP that you only fight npcs” its dont make sense.

I don’t want a solo raid, I’m offering it as an alternative, or extra, to my original suggestion: a story mode raid, with a hard-mode raid version (without all the cutscenes and dialogue) for LI’s. it is my belief that a one person instance for an elder dragon is just silly. We fought the No Life Dragon with an entire pact fleet. We fought the King of the Jungle in his mind, so a small group made some sense.
But whatever we get for Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkalakkra should be something group-ish and big-ish. And I think the current model used for raids is just fine for that. We can have a normal version with dialogue and cutscenes for the story. Then a hard mode version without all that, for people who want to do it like the real raids, and a one-person mode to make all the whiny no-friends people who don’t know what LFG is be quiet about it..

We already got that for HoT, Heart and Mind and the endfight at Dragon’s Stand takes place at the same time lorewise. Much better than rehashed content and even a 10 man raid is too small for an elder dragon fight.

DUDE 10 champions and a small army of importand NPC’s

Against one of the strongest creatures of Tyria. That never made sense in any game.

That is one of the reasons I think LS1 was better executed especially during the boss fights.

I never got to play s1 but i prefered 10 players performing
greatly in terms of rotations and their job and 10-20 more npc with tanks air ships etc rather than 70 ppl aaing. And the less the ppl the easier to make elder dragons aprear… well more epic and worthy of their name.

It is also done in other mmos with great succes

yann.1946:

Can anyone link the CDI i can,t seem to find it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/first

Worth reading. It shows a small glimpse of what raids could have been – as well as the intense community interest in things like accessibility/scaling/etc.