The real issue with raiding as a raider...
I don’t understand why it’s such a big problem that the game mode (supposed to be the hardest one in the game) requires a certain commitment and adaptation of a player. You can play power scrapper everywhere in the game, then why can’t we expect someone to play condi engi for raids. It requires a small bit of commitment, because it needs to be a challenge.
Every game does this, so i dont know why it has to be a problem in gw2, locking things behind difficulty/effort/ a certain playstyle is what defines gaming in many ways. If you want to win the Champions League in FIFA, you probably should take some defenders and not 10 attackers. If you want to win a round of Battlefield, you should probably bring some medics. If you want to win a Total War campaign, better create some balanced armies and mind your economy.
Even in this game, PvP and WvW require people to adapt their style and play different classes/builds if they want to have good chances of being succesful. You probably want an ele in your 5-man PvP team, maybe an engi, mes, thief,…. If you don’t have an ele, you should probably reroll.
Being forced to play in a way, and adapt and change to be able to beat a game is a core principle of gaming.
And you are right in everything you say here. Im not advocating the removal of any of this. The highest level of raiding should require adaptation and min/maxing (even moreso than it currently does, imo).
I still say that multiple levels would make it easier for the developers to accomplish this – freeing them up from any concerns of accessibility, while – for many – addressing the issue of accessibility and profession diversity in raiding at the same time.
This has never been a treatise on the removal of challenging content – or even for watering it down in any way. Raids should be the hardest content in the game – but that doesn’t mean they cannot be adapted to offer secondary experiences for those looking for such a thing.
There is a need (yes I said it – but it’s still opinion – PLEASE dont make me have to explain word definitions again) for greater accessibility in the game mode. I know everyone doesn’t see it (we are all directed by our own in game experiences and environments), but it is there.
Adding Tiered difficulties waters down the raisin experience since lower tiered Raids would be easier hence making Raids not the most challenging content, and changing the target audience, you can’t dispute those facts.
Adding tiers will take away the speed at content releases Raiders have, or it will take developer resources away from other areas since balance will have to be made around multiple tiers. (Challenge notes don’t change the balance they only added mechanics completely different compared to what you state with removing and changing mechanics)
Again Target audience were hardcore players Anet exceeded their expected audience goals for the players that actually wanted the content, you just want the content hijacked for players other than the target audience which will delay Raid releases.
Adding Tiered difficulties waters down the raisin experience since lower tiered Raids would be easier hence making Raids not the most challenging content, and changing the target audience, you can’t dispute those facts.
Adding tiers will take away the speed at content releases Raiders have, or it will take developer resources away from other areas since balance will have to be made around multiple tiers. (Challenge notes don’t change the balance they only added mechanics completely different compared to what you state with removing and changing mechanics)
Again Target audience were hardcore players Anet exceeded their expected audience goals for the players that actually wanted the content, you just want the content hijacked for players other than the target audience which will delay Raid releases.
Just because there are multiple tiers doesn’t mean the raisin (? – just joking, I know what you meant) experience isnt still the hardest content in the game. If raids didnt exist, this honor would go to T4 fractals – despite the existence of T1s.
And, yes, the original published goal of raids did not take what we are discussing into account. But, as player needs adapt with the game’s identity and offerings, so must the way Anet needs to develop content.
And again, I am not convinced this would take any more effort than the challenge motes from the last wing needed.
(edited by Blaeys.3102)
Again Target audience were hardcore players Anet exceeded their expected audience goals for the players that actually wanted the content, you just want the content hijacked for players other than the target audience which will delay Raid releases.
Tbh, I don’t believe that their target audience were hardcore players, if so they missed that mark by a mile. Rather, I believe that their target audience was those that wanted more challenging content, which would have included the hardcore group. Giving them a larger target audience.
Continuing with the honesty trend, Raids, in their current form, aren’t really challenging for the hardcore, it gives them something to do that requires paying attention to the game.
Raids are only really challenging when looked at in the context of the rest of the game. That I think is what they were going for with Raids, and they have achieved that mark. Based off of their reports, raids are doing way better than they expected.
Just because there are multiple tiers doesn’t mean the raisin (? – just joking, I know what you meant) experience isnt still the hardest content in the game. If raids didnt exist, this honor would go to T4 fractals – despite the existence of T1s.
And raids are a further evolution, in the next step up kinda way. The intent is to go from t1 through t4 and then into raids. How is it OK to expect someone to go through t1-t3 fractals just to get to t4, but not ok to expect them to go through t4 fractals to get to raids?
And, yes, the original published goal of raids did not take what we are discussing into account. But, as player needs adapt with the game’s identity and offerings, so must the way Anet needs to develop content.
Or the company could expect the players to adapt to their vision of the game. Shocking, I know, but it isn’t new or unexpected. They want to develop their game, which, most likely, means that unless there is a real need to, they most likely aren’t going to do it, unless they can fit it in while still achieving their goals. You can’t tell someone what they need to do, without providing something besides your opinion (ie – you wouldn’t go into your bosses office telling him what you think he should do, and have nothing to support why you think he should. And if he didn’t agree with those reasons, you wouldn’t keep telling him that he needed to, at least not without providing more reasons. At least I hope you wouldn’t.)
And again, I am not convinced this would take any more effort than the challenge motes from the last wing needed.
So, you are ok with 9 month release cycles for new raids/wings? That seems counter-intuitive to the argument of someone who wants raids to have a larger place in the game.
Again Target audience were hardcore players Anet exceeded their expected audience goals for the players that actually wanted the content, you just want the content hijacked for players other than the target audience which will delay Raid releases.
Tbh, I don’t believe that their target audience were hardcore players, if so they missed that mark by a mile. Rather, I believe that their target audience was those that wanted more challenging content, which would have included the hardcore group. Giving them a larger target audience.
Continuing with the honesty trend, Raids, in their current form, aren’t really challenging for the hardcore, it gives them something to do that requires paying attention to the game.
Raids are only really challenging when looked at in the context of the rest of the game. That I think is what they were going for with Raids, and they have achieved that mark. Based off of their reports, raids are doing way better than they expected.
My bad most players in this game that view anything requiring Organizations and anything more than Spam one as Hardcore.
But the raid Announcement stated the target audience is Highly Organized guilds and groups looking for the Ultimate Challenge in gw2 that requires A high Level of skill, strategy, and coordination in order to succeed.
Adding Tiered difficulties waters down the raisin experience since lower tiered Raids would be easier hence making Raids not the most challenging content
Why? What non-raid content do you think would be more difficult?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Adding Tiered difficulties waters down the raisin experience since lower tiered Raids would be easier hence making Raids not the most challenging content
Why? What non-raid content do you think would be more difficult?
Non that’s why Raids were requested by players wanting a challenge so they asked anet to make their own content that provided a bigger challenge. tiered difficulty will more than likely have easier modes than t3- and t4 Fractals which are not challenging in the slightest and most players wanting easy Raids have problems completing already. Oh no logic
Players shouldnt be punished (in terms of accessibility, at least) for enjoying one playstyle over another..
I think that this point calls for a response.
Raids were designed for a specific playstyle. If one chooses to not adhere to that playstyle then one should take responsibility for any resulting frustration. This sort of situation has been the case since the game’s launch. Has been the case for as long as games have existed. For example, sPvP is designed for a competitive playstyle. Anyone choosing to play in a different manner is going to face an uphill battle when it comes to success.
Players shouldnt be punished (in terms of accessibility, at least) for enjoying one playstyle over another..
I think that this point calls for a response.
Raids were designed for a specific playstyle. If one chooses to not adhere to that playstyle then one should take responsibility for any resulting frustration. This sort of situation has been the case since the game’s launch. Has been the case for as long as games have existed. For example, sPvP is designed for a competitive playstyle. Anyone choosing to play in a different manner is going to face an uphill battle when it comes to success.
This. When it comes to group content in any game, you are either an asset to the team or deadweight, there is no middle ground.
That’s why most builds are tailored and refined throught time, so they can increase their team contribution as much as possible. A playstyle that doesnt adhere is a playstyle with no synergy that actively contributes nothing, thus being useless.
The term “i play how i want to play” is mostly about playing solo where your own actions don’t affect anyone but yourself, for good or for worse.
Adding Tiered difficulties waters down the raisin experience since lower tiered Raids would be easier hence making Raids not the most challenging content
Why? What non-raid content do you think would be more difficult?
Non that’s why Raids were requested by players wanting a challenge so they asked anet to make their own content that provided a bigger challenge. tiered difficulty will more than likely have easier modes than t3- and t4 Fractals
The only people that talk about braindead “afk autoattack spam” difficulty levels for easy mode raids are those that are against them. Having the easy mode be at the general difficulty level of fractal t4 would be enough for most people that actually want it. That would still place raids at the top of pve content.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Adding Tiered difficulties waters down the raisin experience since lower tiered Raids would be easier hence making Raids not the most challenging content
Why? What non-raid content do you think would be more difficult?
Non that’s why Raids were requested by players wanting a challenge so they asked anet to make their own content that provided a bigger challenge. tiered difficulty will more than likely have easier modes than t3- and t4 Fractals
The only people that talk about braindead “afk autoattack spam” difficulty levels for easy mode raids are those that are against them. Having the easy mode be at the general difficulty level of fractal t4 would be enough for most people that actually want it. That would still place raids at the top of pve content.
That wouldn’t since it would still be a “Raid” that isn’t challenging so then Raids are no longer challenging content. And most players that want the easier modes were in the t4 rework threads complaining they were too hard and they needed to be reverted.
Very hard to get into groups without exp, cant gain exp without a group.
Sounds like the job market ^^
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