Thief and Raids
>ignorant and hate on thieves for whatever reason
The reason thieves are “hated” on, or don’t see any play in raids is because they bring no other utility than stealth, which is not a thing. This is not ignorant hate, this is simply the fact that the class has no other possibilities of usage other than stealth. The idea of making bosses require stealth is fine but don’t start calling the lack of a need for stealth ignorant hate
Stealth is no longer exclusive to Thiefs.
As it is now, IMO, Thief can deliver decent DPS (condi or non-condi) but with low HP (yes Thief has great healing as long as he is hitting something; should he be in a position to run / be away from a target, 10k hp is… not a good thing) and zero team utility(not counting break bar, anyone can do that).
In the past, for PvE, his low HP was balanced by excellent DPS / interrupts. Now, times have changed.
Thief is OK if all you want from a team member is DPS. Should you require more, there are better choices.
Again that’s my opinion; it may be wrong, and if you think it is, do tell me.
Actually, one of the best sub you can form in a raid is a herald/druid/chrono/ps war/staff daredevil DPS wise.
The problem with the thief, the real problem, is that one is enough and that one must know how to play, and let’s be honest (and I say this as a thief players), there’re a lot of thieves out there that have no clue how to play it well.
If a thief plays bad, it’s way more a liability of, say, a bad herald. That’s the real problem.
All the rest, is just basic ignorance about what a thief can and can’t deliver.
Since many people are ignorant and hate on Thieves for whatever reason, why not have a Raid boss that requires stealth as one of its mechanics? Just a thought.
Sadly, because an engineer would do it better, lol.
Since many people are ignorant and hate on Thieves for whatever reason, why not have a Raid boss that requires stealth as one of its mechanics? Just a thought.
Sadly, because an engineer would do it better, lol.
Not that much. I killed the vale guardian with 2 thiefs no problem. DD is a good DPS profession and you have 2 spot in the team for dps only. I can understand someone that refuse a team when he still need some of the role in the group, but once the 8 roles are filled, the last 2 can be a thief or pretty much anything and it will run great.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
Since many people are ignorant and hate on Thieves for whatever reason, why not have a Raid boss that requires stealth as one of its mechanics? Just a thought.
Sadly, because an engineer would do it better, lol.
Not that much. I killed the vale guardian with 2 thiefs no problem. DD is a good DPS profession and you have 2 spot in the team for dps only. I can understand someone that refuse a team when he still need some of the role in the group, but once the 8 roles are filled, the last 2 can be a thief or pretty much anything and it will run great.
You misunderstood the point.
He’s saying Scrapper (Engie) can do the stealth part better than Thief. Even more so if they use a certain bug right now to perma stealth.
Since many people are ignorant and hate on Thieves for whatever reason, why not have a Raid boss that requires stealth as one of its mechanics? Just a thought.
You’ll already have a mesmer for alacrity, and an engie for dps, and they can both group stealth just fine. Engie does it better than thief. I really think Shadow Refuge needs a significant buff (at least 50% stealth uptime) and Sneak Gyro should be toned down.
Stealth is no longer exclusive to Thiefs.
As it is now, IMO, Thief can deliver decent DPS (condi or non-condi) but with low HP (yes Thief has great healing as long as he is hitting something; should he be in a position to run / be away from a target, 10k hp is… not a good thing) and zero team utility(not counting break bar, anyone can do that).
In the past, for PvE, his low HP was balanced by excellent DPS / interrupts. Now, times have changed.
Thief is OK if all you want from a team member is DPS. Should you require more, there are better choices.
Again that’s my opinion; it may be wrong, and if you think it is, do tell me.
Well this is not a valid reason, the low HP isnt a problem. If a thief is able to play in raids he doesnt get hit and that’s a fact. Another fact is that dps-wise staff daredevil is best phisical direct dmg.
The real prolem is the lack of utility and party-wide buffs. So it’s not a general hate toward the class but the real lack of added value to a raid comp apart from dps itself.
This issue of the stealth based classes not be used on dungeons/bosses, not being pve viable, is a classic in mmo’s. The Anet could try to be different and think in a creative solution to an old problem which other developers simply ignore.
Well this is not a valid reason, the low HP isnt a problem. If a thief is able to play in raids he doesnt get hit and that’s a fact. Another fact is that dps-wise staff daredevil is best phisical direct dmg.
The real prolem is the lack of utility and party-wide buffs. So it’s not a general hate toward the class but the real lack of added value to a raid comp apart from dps itself.
As I said (and you, too), when you got the right support classes, the last slot in a sub is a perfect fit for a staff DD. What’s the need of another “support” toon, when you have herald/ps war/druid/chrono?
I think it’s a bit more complicated, maybe a combination of factors:
- 11k HP is not an issue as long as you got something to hit, and the problems (death) will appear when you are far from boss / when you ress someone / whatever. kitten happens, and Thief has no buffer for when that moment arrives; boss AoE is not % of your HP, just like in open world (say DS meta) monsters don’t care what you total HP is, some just hit for 7-8k / hit.
- the damage is Okay if you spec zerk, I won’t go into more details; venom share is much lower; it offers some burst damage through poison, but in the end I would say it’s not enough for raids.
- now support… this is the hardest part I guess. Thief has zero group ‘buffs’.
* condi necro, has a few minor auras, a bit of Str share, etc.
* power necro I did not test/research, so I don’t know
* condi war has at least 1 banner
* PS warr and zerk rev got plenty of goodies
* condi ranger and condi guard are similar to Thief, no group support. Not many of them around so not many voices saying it
* list can go on, but you get the idea
But in the end, IMO it is ‘better’ to bring a necro / condi war (let’s ignore it’s dps, let’s say it does a bit lower dps than Thief). When I say better I mean the objective (boss dead) would be easier to achieve because there is more room for human errors.
The professions are not balanced, not everyone can do the same things, same dps with same survability, same group support or whatever. Some professions just don’t have the tools, IMO.
The thing is, in order to ‘See’ this, one needs to go to raids and other PvE events (DS and TD metas) with different professions. One should draw conclusions after it has tried the same fight or content with more than one profession (I did, also many hours spent at the golems in the mists and crunching numbers).