Guild Wars 2

My subjective feeling is that Thief’s DPS is going to be (judging from last beta) bad in comparison to other classes. (Revenant, Necro, Warrior, Engineer, Ele DPS should be higher, perhaps Mesmer and Ranger too?)

Since DPS is worse than other classes and classes such as guardian, mesmer, ele, warrior, revenant support the group so much better, is there any place for thief in parties? Will thief be the current necro?
I can imagine mesmer stealthing the party and ele + group blinding the enemies, so I assume there’s no need for stealth & blindbot.

It’s kinda sad for me to see that this class is getting worse with (almost) every update, while some classes get passive 25 stacks might, get invisibility etc.

Thief DPS is just as high as it was before HoT if you don’t pick the daredevil traitline.
Mesmer has to sacrifice too many utilities to generate as much stealth as a thief, and ele has to waste vuln stacking to generate enough blinds.
As long as there is need for stealth, thief will always be “meta”.
We don’t know what exactly the raid content will consist of tho, and when there isn’t a need for stealth there might be other classes that will be taken over thief

You’ve still got solid defiance removal, blinds, and stealth.

Thief is also the best rezzer if that becomes a thing in raids. Warrior can only elite warbanner only so much. Thief with shadow refuge and even the shadow arts minor can safely rez the target by removing them from aggro and often preventing the boss from peppering a downed target with AoE.

Also consider Mai Trin scenarios with shadow refuge.

You’re also a class with unmatched mobility and damage avoidance.

If your worried about being wanted in pug groups, I doubt you need to worry. Every day, groups that don’t exactly match meta battle smoothly complete content, because experienced players can recognize what roles need to be filled, and fill them.

I’ve had so many smooth runs with non-meta groups. Honestly seeing ‘meta’ in the lfg means a lot less to me than seeing ‘experienced’. Anyone can copy a build off meta battle, but that doesn’t you know the strategies. Of course players lie about being experienced, but they lie about having meta builds too.

It’s not the thief DPS is bad either. It’s still and will remain one of the top single target dps of the game. It may had dropped behind Engineer and Elementalist (not totally sure), but there are still more profession behind him and in front of him.

Why would it be important that Daredevil have less dps than other elite specialisation?

Defiance is being changed, Chronos can cover stealth quite easily and I doubt D/D is going to be great against raid bosses but we’ll see.

Thief will have its place if the Content demands a lot of spamable blasts (waterfields anyone?) aswell as fast skips/interactions and there is also some niche things that Thief is good at that weren’t needed so far.

perry.9645:

Thief will have its place if the Content demands a lot of spamable blasts (waterfields anyone?) aswell as fast skips/interactions and there is also some niche things that Thief is good at that weren’t needed so far.

This, plus if the target is moving around a lot pretty sure thief becomes relatively better assuming melee is an option.

perry.9645:

Thief will have its place if the Content demands a lot of spamable blasts (waterfields anyone?) aswell as fast skips/interactions and there is also some niche things that Thief is good at that weren’t needed so far.

Trap meta plz.

Cynz.9437:
You know what is bigger joke? from dulfy:
Upcoming content will have stuff that you can’t just dodge to survive.
Berserk meta is going away.
No pve/raids for thieves? Ok………
No pvp either considering how overbuffed other classes are. GG. Time for refund.
RIP…

Does that mean the entire new class mechanic is worth( )less in raids? I mean an entire class relying on dodges and it’s bad in HoT? Wow. I’m just waiting for PVE mobs which apply revealed. Makes thief much worse with 12k hp. Really curious which role thief will have in upcoming content.

assassin.7895:

Does that mean the entire new class mechanic is worth( )less in raids? I mean an entire class relying on dodges and it’s bad in HoT? Wow. I’m just waiting for PVE mobs which apply revealed. Makes thief much worse with 12k hp. Really curious which role thief will have in upcoming content.

there is still invigorating precision which is incredibly strong for thief sustain if needed

Thoughts on this evasion/lifesteal tank build? You know, since they’ve said that survivability is going to be a thing.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAsYVl0MhSnYhTw4JQ/EHwElPNij2YfBLXHqTgAIDA-ThSBABccIAKUHAlq/YmSwrU+R0+DTcCAwTbgGHBAAeAABAOAGuwFe4Arv+6rv+6N8wDP8wDXKAzVaB-e

Eponet.4829:

You know, since they’ve said that survivability is going to be a thing.

If A-net said that then it’s probably not going to be a thing.

I still think Thief is the king of stealth, and that’s what really matters. If stealth isn’t required in raids, I can foresee Thieves not being desired nearly as much, and that’s okay. You pick the classes based on what you need.

Blastspammerbot

Druid/Scrapper stealth meta incoming. Thief gone!

In all seriousness thieves will probably still be a very strong pick. But they wont be quite so clear cut like they are currently. Which is a good thing.

Has druid get stealth?

from druid description:

Upcoming content will have stuff that you can’t just dodge to survive.
Berserk meta is going away

Thief can ONLY run zerker, it sucks on anything else. You can slot as many tanky/healing stats/traits/spells you still gonna drop if boss just looks at you.
Thief relies on blinds(which are worthless vs bosses) and dodges… which apprently will be worthless as well.
Thief elite spec is based on dodges….

Do devs even communicate with each other?

Ryn.6459:

Has druid get stealth?

One of the new pets has a smokefield.

Eponet.4829:

Thoughts on this evasion/lifesteal tank build? You know, since they’ve said that survivability is going to be a thing.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAsYVl0MhSnYhTw4JQ/EHwElPNij2YfBLXHqTgAIDA-ThSBABccIAKUHAlq/YmSwrU+R0+DTcCAwTbgGHBAAeAABAOAGuwFe4Arv+6rv+6N8wDP8wDXKAzVaB-e

You literally changed a single trait from the usual zerk thief

stambogalizi.8356:

Eponet.4829:

Thoughts on this evasion/lifesteal tank build? You know, since they’ve said that survivability is going to be a thing.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAsYVl0MhSnYhTw4JQ/EHwElPNij2YfBLXHqTgAIDA-ThSBABccIAKUHAlq/YmSwrU+R0+DTcCAwTbgGHBAAeAABAOAGuwFe4Arv+6rv+6N8wDP8wDXKAzVaB-e

You literally changed a single trait from the usual zerk thief

and sigils, healing skill, elite skill, weapon selection, nourishment, utilities, and three more traits

Anyone played raids and is able to provide new info?

Picture shows how far we got as a 9-man team, myself playing Daredevil. Our 9th DCd immediately afterwards, causing us to call it a night and to try again with a full 10 tomorrow.

Staff Daredevil is MONSTROUS as a DPS role in the raid. Should you require it, you can take Invigorating Precision to lose some Ferocity in exchange for self-sustain over time (which is key in this particular boss fight). Apart from that, going all-in with DA/CS/Daredevil and running a rotation of Bound, Weakening Charge and auto chains puts in serious work. On top of that, Shortbow secondary gives some fairly important burst mobility for this fight, as you need to be in a certain place at a certain time if another teammate can’t make it.

There’s also some really nice utility for this fight in particular. Burst CC from Physicals, nice amounts of Immobilise to manage certain adds and so on.

One thing to note is that with 10 people fighting a boss you don’t need Sundering Strikes as the Vulnerability cap will always be met, allowing a choice of Practised Tolerance instead to put your DPS up further.

If the next few fights require more group healing etc, we won’t do a great job of that, but we can keep ourselves up very well and do insane DPS while we’re at it.

I swapped to Daredevil and never looked back.

How do you compare the DPS? Have you played condi engi etc.? From what I see classes such as engi & ele bring a lot of combo fields (fire and water) to the table while also having decent amount of blasts. Mesmer has awesome utility (time warp is on 50 seconds CD now, right?), etc. Why did you pick Daredevil? Other classes do damage as well and are able to support the raid more.

perry.9645:

Thief will have its place if the Content demands a lot of spamable blasts (waterfields anyone?) aswell as fast skips/interactions and there is also some niche things that Thief is good at that weren’t needed so far.

But that means you have to switch to shortbow, which is a severe DPS loss. Engi doesn’t have that problem for example and has decent amount of blasts.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I still think Thief is the king of stealth, and that’s what really matters. If stealth isn’t required in raids, I can foresee Thieves not being desired nearly as much, and that’s okay. You pick the classes based on what you need.

Not being desired at all you mean? The new necro I believe. If you play with engineers (for condi dmg for example) you could’ve enough smoke fields already right? Timing is just a bit harder then.

By the way it seems like headshot isn’t good for defiance stripping.
Also mesmer afaik mesmer is better than thief at boon stripping.

Thaddeus.4891:

It’s not the thief DPS is bad either. It’s still and will remain one of the top single target dps of the game. It may had dropped behind Engineer and Elementalist (not totally sure), but there are still more profession behind him and in front of him.

Why would it be important that Daredevil have less dps than other elite specialisation?

Because daredevil & thief has hardly any relevant support.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

You’ve still got solid defiance removal, blinds, and stealth.

Blinds are useless on bosses? Even when you need lots of blind against trash Ele is probably better at it, blackpowder is small and has only 5 targets. Whirling on an engi bomb is also better perhaps.

thrag.9740:

If your worried about being wanted in pug groups, I doubt you need to worry. Every day, groups that don’t exactly match meta battle smoothly complete content, because experienced players can recognize what roles need to be filled, and fill them.

I’ve had so many smooth runs with non-meta groups. Honestly seeing ‘meta’ in the lfg means a lot less to me than seeing ‘experienced’. Anyone can copy a build off meta battle, but that doesn’t you know the strategies. Of course players lie about being experienced, but they lie about having meta builds too.

I’m not that guy just because I’m a stubborn roleplayer I’m gonna be a burden for the team. If thief is kitten I’m not gonna play it. Problem is that thief is my main class and I would like to continue to play that character.

Zenith.7301:

Thief is also the best rezzer if that becomes a thing in raids. Warrior can only elite warbanner only so much. Thief with shadow refuge and even the shadow arts minor can safely rez the target by removing them from aggro and often preventing the boss from peppering a downed target with AoE.

Also consider Mai Trin scenarios with shadow refuge.

You’re also a class with unmatched mobility and damage avoidance.

My mobility & damage avoidance is not unmatched. It requires me to use weapons, utilities etc. that decrease my DPS severely. Besides I need to stick close to the enemy anyway.

Taking shadow arts in is a big DPS loss and with 10 people you will always have enough people to rez you. When it comes that far that you will constantly need to rez someone I need to remind you that SR and the minor trait have CD. You would probably eat damage, but with 11.5k life and medium armor you wouldn’t be able to take many crits with zerk gear. If you switch to other gear you lose even more dmg.

bladex.9502:

Thief DPS is just as high as it was before HoT if you don’t pick the daredevil traitline.
Mesmer has to sacrifice too many utilities to generate as much stealth as a thief, and ele has to waste vuln stacking to generate enough blinds.
As long as there is need for stealth, thief will always be “meta”.
We don’t know what exactly the raid content will consist of tho, and when there isn’t a need for stealth there might be other classes that will be taken over thief

Except when DPS of other classes is buffed or a revenant comes in. You can also use engineer and druid for stealth and additionally use mesmer stealth.

Ele doesn’t have to waste vuln on generating blinds. Glyph CD is probably lower with alacrity and with 10 players you have enough vuln probably. Someone who whirls on engi smoke field might be enough already too. Blind isn’t relevant on bosses (raid content) anyway).

Even when stealth is needed I don’t think thief is good enough.

spoj.9672:

Druid/Scrapper stealth meta incoming. Thief gone!

In all seriousness thieves will probably still be a very strong pick. But they wont be quite so clear cut like they are currently. Which is a good thing.

How is thief a very strong pick?

No problem, we’ll just play exciting old content which are dungeons, especially CM.

Auesis.7301:

Picture shows how far we got as a 9-man team, myself playing Daredevil. Our 9th DCd immediately afterwards, causing us to call it a night and to try again with a full 10 tomorrow.

Staff Daredevil is MONSTROUS as a DPS role in the raid. Should you require it, you can take Invigorating Precision to lose some Ferocity in exchange for self-sustain over time (which is key in this particular boss fight). Apart from that, going all-in with DA/CS/Daredevil and running a rotation of Bound, Weakening Charge and auto chains puts in serious work. On top of that, Shortbow secondary gives some fairly important burst mobility for this fight, as you need to be in a certain place at a certain time if another teammate can’t make it.

There’s also some really nice utility for this fight in particular. Burst CC from Physicals, nice amounts of Immobilise to manage certain adds and so on.

One thing to note is that with 10 people fighting a boss you don’t need Sundering Strikes as the Vulnerability cap will always be met, allowing a choice of Practised Tolerance instead to put your DPS up further.

If the next few fights require more group healing etc, we won’t do a great job of that, but we can keep ourselves up very well and do insane DPS while we’re at it.

I swapped to Daredevil and never looked back.

Does that mean only Thief’s elite spec will be viable for raids?

A zerker thief (+ 1 piece knights to hold aggro) is probably the most offensive “tank”. So it might have a spot somewhere.

But if you want to deal dmg, daredevil is a billion times better since the daredevil traitline gives you a 29,5% modifier while using a staff, staff 2 is a sub 25% heartseeker and your dodges will do around 15k dmg.

MasterBlaster.6827:

A zerker thief (+ 1 piece knights to hold aggro) is probably the most offensive “tank”. So it might have a spot somewhere.

But if you want to deal dmg, daredevil is a billion times better since the daredevil traitline gives you a 29,5% modifier while using a staff, staff 2 is a sub 25% heartseeker and your dodges will do around 15k dmg.

Yeah, the dmg buff is highly appreciated on daredevil spec. Utility is still bad though. If there’s a place for a tank thief might really have a spot, agreed. What weapon set would you use as tank? Hope they don’t nerf Invigorating Precision as a result though.

S/P for sure, 2 PW’s and you are at full health. PW deals around 40k at the vale guardian, which is approx. a 7k heal (IP + Signet of Malice).

assassin.7895:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I still think Thief is the king of stealth, and that’s what really matters. If stealth isn’t required in raids, I can foresee Thieves not being desired nearly as much, and that’s okay. You pick the classes based on what you need.

Not being desired at all you mean? The new necro I believe. If you play with engineers (for condi dmg for example) you could’ve enough smoke fields already right? Timing is just a bit harder then.

By the way it seems like headshot isn’t good for defiance stripping.
Also mesmer afaik mesmer is better than thief at boon stripping.

Won’t be a defiance anymore, and honestly HS was always bad for defiance stripping it was just easy, but it was a notable damage loss. At this point it’s best to have the group strip 2-3 stacks, then thief basalisk and maybe steal for the last few stacks. Anyways that’s a thing of the past, breakbar is coming, which is about burst CC something headshot I’d imagine wouldn’t be great with compared to other options.

symke.3105:

Auesis.7301:

Picture shows how far we got as a 9-man team, myself playing Daredevil. Our 9th DCd immediately afterwards, causing us to call it a night and to try again with a full 10 tomorrow.

Staff Daredevil is MONSTROUS as a DPS role in the raid. Should you require it, you can take Invigorating Precision to lose some Ferocity in exchange for self-sustain over time (which is key in this particular boss fight). Apart from that, going all-in with DA/CS/Daredevil and running a rotation of Bound, Weakening Charge and auto chains puts in serious work. On top of that, Shortbow secondary gives some fairly important burst mobility for this fight, as you need to be in a certain place at a certain time if another teammate can’t make it.

There’s also some really nice utility for this fight in particular. Burst CC from Physicals, nice amounts of Immobilise to manage certain adds and so on.

One thing to note is that with 10 people fighting a boss you don’t need Sundering Strikes as the Vulnerability cap will always be met, allowing a choice of Practised Tolerance instead to put your DPS up further.

If the next few fights require more group healing etc, we won’t do a great job of that, but we can keep ourselves up very well and do insane DPS while we’re at it.

I swapped to Daredevil and never looked back.

Does that mean only Thief’s elite spec will be viable for raids?

Maybe not. Alacrity could make Venomshare viable for a condi spec, as the cooldowns are the main thing making it a lame choice. VS also has the mass break from Basilisk and the group heal/Might which can be handy as a buffer. The CDs can reach 19s-ish with Alacrity as far as I know, which is reasonable.

Auesis.7301:

Maybe not. Alacrity could make Venomshare viable for a condi spec, as the cooldowns are the main thing making it a lame choice.

even with alacrity i think engi gets more out of it, and often venom charges got lost on seekers

If thieves has access to fast hands, they will be instantly desired. I think the raid designers are trying to encourage people to range by introducing X mechanics such as the yellow lightning aoe where 4 people have to stand in. Thieves excel in mobility which will make them ideal for these situations where they can go into melee or range whenever they want. The 10second recharge to go into shortbow is really punishing currently for this type of playstyle.