Guild Wars 2

So I’ve finally given up on my Necro. I’m going to be maining either Thief or Guard next. Both are zerker/scholar, etc.

Suggestions?

The game is much more easier to be played on a heavy class, and a guardian is usually much more helpful to the group than the thief.

I only use my thief to run CM because there is the only dungeon where stealth makes it faster to skip, in other dungeons its faster to just skip by yourself than having to wait for the thief to use stealth, but thieves can keep spamming blindness with pistol offhand which is very useful.

I usually use warrior in dungeons where you dont need reflects, guardian when it needs reflects or in TA and thief in CM, sometimes i use my ele but she suffers the most when the group is not very organized.
I have an eng that is only more helpful in TA story. The bombs aoe is great against that boss that summon lots of spiders that explode into poison clouds.

Both have low HP pools which makes them pretty squishy, with the thief being even more so.
Guardian can bring much more team support with his reflects, aegis, protection, boons and condition removal.
Thief can bring some really beast DPS, 1 low duration projectile absorb, an kitten ton of stealth making dungeon skips no brainers and perma blindness on silver mobs.

I personally think Guardian is harder to play, but that’s just because I’ve barely had practice on my guardian. Thief is easier for me, but that’s because I know how to manage my dodge meter and dps rotations without getting hit. On that note, make sure you know how to dodge as usually 1 strong hit on a thief means insta downed.

On another note, just try them both out, see which one you like best and you enjoy more and stick with that one.

well i have over 500 hours on my thief and 500 on my guard and i have to say guardian is typically more useful but that being said guardians are insanely common and for most things only 1 guard is needed while thief has a basically guaranteed slot in any speed runs and even for most fractals to spam blinds
edit: disclaimer: for those that dont already main a thief, guardian is insanely easier to learn and comparing having to manage dodges/endurance guard has it so easy its not even funny while a thief is instakilled if he messes up

I think I should add that I am fairly experienced at Thief, as well as most dungeons. I’ve played my Thief most in dungeons, and Guardian I hardly ever touch. I have a good sense of game mechanics (dodging etc). I know both can bring interesting utility – Guardian more so. What would you guys say most experienced groups prefer? I tend to pug but am looking into getting active in more organized play.

Gnat.9405:

I think I should add that I am fairly experienced at Thief, as well as most dungeons. I’ve played my Thief most in dungeons, and Guardian I hardly ever touch. I have a good sense of game mechanics (dodging etc). I know both can bring interesting utility – Guardian more so. What would you guys say most experienced groups prefer? I tend to pug but am looking into getting active in more organized play.

since my phone doesnt have brackets copy and paste this ’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=r0K2K-8swAY’, in this video he talks about how useful a thief is for organized dungeons
edit: seems forums linked it without tags

Gnat.9405:

I think I should add that I am fairly experienced at Thief, as well as most dungeons. I’ve played my Thief most in dungeons, and Guardian I hardly ever touch. I have a good sense of game mechanics (dodging etc). I know both can bring interesting utility – Guardian more so. What would you guys say most experienced groups prefer? I tend to pug but am looking into getting active in more organized play.

If you want to get more into organized play, then you should be comfortable with 1-2-3 characters and have them fully geared. You don’t just have 1 character and only play on that single character. You bring what the group needs, and if you have the choice, you bring whichever one you want.
For example, I have my Warrior, Mesmer & Thief fully geared, with my mesmer lacking the ascended weps. I generally bring Thief (because I’m one of the few in my guild that runs Thief), but I do switch to warrior/mesmer if we need those classes. I also have my guardian fully geared, in case I need to bring him (rarely).
So yea, have a few fully geared toons, and be comfortable on them is my advice.

Thieves can do a lot in dungeons but top guardians can turn hard content into an easy ride for a group with their class skills. You might also find that a group will take a guardian in almost every situation where they wouldn’t want a necro.

Whichever. A good Thief and a good Guardian are always welcome in runs. In fact, a good anything other than Necro is always welcome.

Unless you really prefer thief gameplay, go Guard. A thief isn’t useless by any stretch, but you’ll have to work a lot harder to survive and will generally provide less to the group than a guardian (assuming you play it well).

My main character is my thief, but I generally play my Guardians when it comes to fractals and most dungeons.

Also, to the people that are talking down on Necros: Take a look at the group composition of the team that already beat 50 Fractals → https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/fractured/Ding-Fractal-level-50/

Make guard, always needed…. thieves are needed in only very few situations and are hardly usefull for groups.

Cynz.9437:

Make guard, always needed…. thieves are needed in only very few situations and are hardly usefull for groups.

You must have never played with a good thief then.

Black Box.9312:

Cynz.9437:

Make guard, always needed…. thieves are needed in only very few situations and are hardly usefull for groups.

You must have never played with a good thief then.

i AM that “good” thief so i know limitations of one

Cynz.9437:

Black Box.9312:

Cynz.9437:

Make guard, always needed…. thieves are needed in only very few situations and are hardly usefull for groups.

You must have never played with a good thief then.

i AM that good thief so i know limitations of one

Huh, that’s strange, because I play both guard and thief and know that they’re both very useful classes when played well.

Black Box.9312:

Cynz.9437:

Black Box.9312:

Cynz.9437:

Make guard, always needed…. thieves are needed in only very few situations and are hardly usefull for groups.

You must have never played with a good thief then.

i AM that good thief so i know limitations of one

Huh, that’s strange, because I play both guard and thief and know that they’re both very useful classes when played well.

i didn’t say thief is not usefull but their team utility is limited compared to guard
besides in many cases you want only 1 thief on a group

same thing with guard, unless you want ez fractals

guanlongwucaii.3162:

same thing with guard, unless you want ez fractals

2 guards on fire shaman are more usefull than 2 thieves on fire shaman

which is why I said ez fractals. can you read? obviously stacking guards is less terrible than stacking thieves but in ideal scenario neither should be the case.

If you’re a good thief as you say, I’d stick with it. There’s no better feeling sometimes in fractals than having a good thief. However, there’s no worse feeling in dungeons and /or fractals than having a bad thief.

I always feel a little nervous when a pug thief comes in, but I gotta say I never have that feeling if it’s a guardian. That might just be a bias I have, but I’ve run with many bad thieves. But last weekend, I met an amazing thief, and I have to say without them my day would not have gone as smooth.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If you’re a good thief as you say, I’d stick with it. There’s no better feeling sometimes in fractals than having a good thief. However, there’s no worse feeling in dungeons and /or fractals than having a bad thief.

I always feel a little nervous when a pug thief comes in, but I gotta say I never have that feeling if it’s a guardian. That might just be a bias I have, but I’ve run with many bad thieves. But last weekend, I met an amazing thief, and I have to say without them my day would not have gone as smooth.

maybe im weird but whenever a pug guardian joins my group im thinking to myself “i wonder if he knows what wall of reflection does…” because i rarely ever see pug guardians using the skills they should be

Clumsy.6257:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If you’re a good thief as you say, I’d stick with it. There’s no better feeling sometimes in fractals than having a good thief. However, there’s no worse feeling in dungeons and /or fractals than having a bad thief.

I always feel a little nervous when a pug thief comes in, but I gotta say I never have that feeling if it’s a guardian. That might just be a bias I have, but I’ve run with many bad thieves. But last weekend, I met an amazing thief, and I have to say without them my day would not have gone as smooth.

maybe im weird but whenever a pug guardian joins my group im thinking to myself “i wonder if he knows what wall of reflection does…” because i rarely ever see pug guardians using the skills they should be

Haha, interesting.

Pug RNG ftw lol

Thanks everyone, for the feedback

Thief is right up amazing, let me tell you that. Problem is that in fractals you’re likely to meet ppl who “know better” which class is good and which not. Given that you can sneak/tele/ and do lotsa unseen by other classes stuff, make no mistake – thief is the fractal machine, just learn him well and think out of the box a bit;)

Cynz.9437:

Black Box.9312:

Cynz.9437:

Make guard, always needed…. thieves are needed in only very few situations and are hardly usefull for groups.

You must have never played with a good thief then.

i AM that “good” thief so i know limitations of one

I love how modest people can be.

Should probably go Guardian, or even Warrior
Thief is awesome, really really strong, but both heavy classes bring so much more team utilty and about as much damage as thief (1k-3k difference without boons)

HELLruler.4820:

Should probably go Guardian, or even Warrior
Thief is awesome, really really strong, but both heavy classes bring so much more team utilty and about as much damage as thief (1k-3k difference without boons)

your joking right? a thief can easily double a warriors damage on single targets

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If you’re a good thief as you say, I’d stick with it. There’s no better feeling sometimes in fractals than having a good thief. However, there’s no worse feeling in dungeons and /or fractals than having a bad thief.

I always feel a little nervous when a pug thief comes in, but I gotta say I never have that feeling if it’s a guardian. That might just be a bias I have, but I’ve run with many bad thieves. But last weekend, I met an amazing thief, and I have to say without them my day would not have gone as smooth.

When it’s a thief in pugs I’m like “please don’t be p/p or sb condition build with vitality trinkets!!” because for some reason every kitten thief thinks it’s a good idea to stack vitality for defense.
When it’s a guardian I pray to whatever gods are there he/she isn’t a god kitten bunker/support build camping staff and mace/shield.
I’d still take condition thieves over bunker guards because they do at least some damage.

Dolan.3071:

Cynz.9437:

Black Box.9312:

Cynz.9437:

Make guard, always needed…. thieves are needed in only very few situations and are hardly usefull for groups.

You must have never played with a good thief then.

i AM that “good” thief so i know limitations of one

I love how modest people can be.

that is why i used ""… other ppl i ran with said i was good i would assume that is at least half true

Clumsy.6257:

HELLruler.4820:

Should probably go Guardian, or even Warrior
Thief is awesome, really really strong, but both heavy classes bring so much more team utilty and about as much damage as thief (1k-3k difference without boons)

your joking right? a thief can easily double a warriors damage on single targets

I wouldn’t go that far, but yeah Thief single target deeps is pretty kitten good. People just don’t notice it as much because on Warrior it’s more or less just mash 1 to deal optimal damage, whereas on Thief more of the damage comes from landing backstabs and Heartseekers.
So really it’s much more reasonable to expect a PuG to be able to mash 1, and therefore a much safer bet to take a PuG Warr over a Thief.

If you run with pugs mostlygo guard.
If you run with guildies go thief.

Why? because people want guardians to carry them most of the time, people don’t get scarred seeing 2+ guards in their group, they do with thieves.

Easy as that…

Dolan.3071:

Clumsy.6257:

HELLruler.4820:

Should probably go Guardian, or even Warrior
Thief is awesome, really really strong, but both heavy classes bring so much more team utilty and about as much damage as thief (1k-3k difference without boons)

your joking right? a thief can easily double a warriors damage on single targets

I wouldn’t go that far, but yeah Thief single target deeps is pretty kitten good. People just don’t notice it as much because on Warrior it’s more or less just mash 1 to deal optimal damage, whereas on Thief more of the damage comes from landing backstabs and Heartseekers.
So really it’s much more reasonable to expect a PuG to be able to mash 1, and therefore a much safer bet to take a PuG Warr over a Thief.

At least when a pug thief is in the party you know they can’t run a shout heal build like a pug warrior will most likely be using.

Omg Casey.5973:

Dolan.3071:

Clumsy.6257:

HELLruler.4820:

Should probably go Guardian, or even Warrior
Thief is awesome, really really strong, but both heavy classes bring so much more team utilty and about as much damage as thief (1k-3k difference without boons)

your joking right? a thief can easily double a warriors damage on single targets

I wouldn’t go that far, but yeah Thief single target deeps is pretty kitten good. People just don’t notice it as much because on Warrior it’s more or less just mash 1 to deal optimal damage, whereas on Thief more of the damage comes from landing backstabs and Heartseekers.
So really it’s much more reasonable to expect a PuG to be able to mash 1, and therefore a much safer bet to take a PuG Warr over a Thief.

At least when a pug thief is in the party you know they can’t run a shout heal build like a pug warrior will most likely be using.

Waitwaitwait. Venom share condi thieves, new meta.

Omg Casey.5973:

Dolan.3071:

Clumsy.6257:

HELLruler.4820:

Should probably go Guardian, or even Warrior
Thief is awesome, really really strong, but both heavy classes bring so much more team utilty and about as much damage as thief (1k-3k difference without boons)

your joking right? a thief can easily double a warriors damage on single targets

I wouldn’t go that far, but yeah Thief single target deeps is pretty kitten good. People just don’t notice it as much because on Warrior it’s more or less just mash 1 to deal optimal damage, whereas on Thief more of the damage comes from landing backstabs and Heartseekers.
So really it’s much more reasonable to expect a PuG to be able to mash 1, and therefore a much safer bet to take a PuG Warr over a Thief.

At least when a pug thief is in the party you know they can’t run a shout heal build like a pug warrior will most likely be using.

rather have a shout heal warrior than the typical pug thief, met one a few days ago who proudly pinged his full clerics + ruby orbs, with 0/0/30/30/10 and said he was a dps thief

Clumsy.6257:

rather have a shout heal warrior than the typical pug thief, met one a few days ago who proudly pinged his full clerics + ruby orbs, with 0/0/30/30/10 and said he was a dps thief

How about those pistol/pistol shortbow thieves?

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Clumsy.6257:

rather have a shout heal warrior than the typical pug thief, met one a few days ago who proudly pinged his full clerics + ruby orbs, with 0/0/30/30/10 and said he was a dps thief

How about those pistol/pistol shortbow thieves?

Not as good as those pistol/pistol thieves. With missing trinkets.

It’s mainly due to the players preference, Thief can deal higher damage and blind everything as well as making dungeon skips easy, I would say for pugging a zerker guardian would be better though because you can offer cond removal reflects aegis stability all while dealing high damage I play guard but I think I would find thief more fun personally

Painbow.6059:

It’s mainly due to the players preference, Thief can deal higher damage and blind everything as well as making dungeon skips easy, I would say for pugging a zerker guardian would be better though because you can offer cond removal reflects aegis stability all while dealing high damage I play guard but I think I would find thief more fun personally

Guards bring blinds too

kinda sad really, a thief that dies in a few hits is more welcome then a necro that pretty much does dmg just as high but in AOE and barely dies at all.
ppl are just way to focused on dmg dmg dmg without actually thinking about how to do dmg, typical FPS thinking……

sorudo.9054:

kinda sad really, a thief that dies in a few hits is more welcome then a necro that pretty much does dmg just as high but in AOE and barely dies at all.
ppl are just way to focused on dmg dmg dmg without actually thinking about how to do dmg, typical FPS thinking……

What if the thief doesn’t die, because he is good? GASP

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

sorudo.9054:

kinda sad really, a thief that dies in a few hits is more welcome then a necro that pretty much does dmg just as high but in AOE and barely dies at all.
ppl are just way to focused on dmg dmg dmg without actually thinking about how to do dmg, typical FPS thinking……

What if the thief doesn’t die, because he is good? GASP

But that would mean that the “good” thief is using dodges, blinds and other stuff that negates dmg. And we all know those count as exploiting.

Heaven forbid he uses… reflects.

The biggest exploit of them all.

sorudo.9054:

kinda sad really, a thief that dies in a few hits is more welcome then a necro that pretty much does dmg just as high but in AOE and barely dies at all.
ppl are just way to focused on dmg dmg dmg without actually thinking about how to do dmg, typical FPS thinking……

I’m sorry, but considering the necro’s toolbelt I find it very hard to believe that they can deal more damage in an area than a thief with a sword.

Black Box.9312:

sorudo.9054:

kinda sad really, a thief that dies in a few hits is more welcome then a necro that pretty much does dmg just as high but in AOE and barely dies at all.
ppl are just way to focused on dmg dmg dmg without actually thinking about how to do dmg, typical FPS thinking……

I’m sorry, but considering the necro’s toolbelt I find it very hard to believe that they can deal more damage in an area than a thief with a sword.

and that’s why we have good necro’s, you might run in to bad necro’s but you need good ones to get it done right.
the problem isn’t really the necro, the problem is the players who treat necro’s like filth.
invite a good necro and you’ll see that they are more useful then ppl claim they are.

Good Necromancers will agree on their uselessness in most groups.

sorudo.9054:

Black Box.9312:

sorudo.9054:

kinda sad really, a thief that dies in a few hits is more welcome then a necro that pretty much does dmg just as high but in AOE and barely dies at all.
ppl are just way to focused on dmg dmg dmg without actually thinking about how to do dmg, typical FPS thinking……

I’m sorry, but considering the necro’s toolbelt I find it very hard to believe that they can deal more damage in an area than a thief with a sword.

and that’s why we have good necro’s, you might run in to bad necro’s but you need good ones to get it done right.
the problem isn’t really the necro, the problem is the players who treat necro’s like filth.
invite a good necro and you’ll see that they are more useful then ppl claim they are.

I know plenty of good necros. It’s not necessarily that they can’t be good in dungeons, it’s just that they’re outclassed in every category that matters in PvE by another class.

To OP: Both bring reflects (absorb for thief), both can be specced for high damage, thief brings stealth + blast finishers for might if you have an ele but is squishier, guard brings perma protection (hammer) and mob grouping (GS chains), stability and group aegis/healing and can be specced for group condi removal.

Personally I think guard is more useful, but situationally thieves can be a real godsend for skipping trash.

EDIT: Bad guards don’t do any of the above, whereas bad thieves will usually at least SR on demand. So I guess there’s that. But I prefer to assume that you’d be a good whatever-you-do, and not a bad one =)

Emissary.3792:

EDIT: Bad guards don’t do any of the above, whereas bad thieves will usually at least SR on demand. So I guess there’s that. But I prefer to assume that you’d be a good whatever-you-do, and not a bad one =)

Don’t get me started on bad thieves…..