Guild Wars 2

From the balance patch preview notes:

Finally, we’ll be addressing the Tornado and Fiery Greatsword elite skills; we’ll make some usability improvements and tone down some of their unintended functionality.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-changes-in-the-september-2014-feature-pack/

Yes, you can reroll necro now.

About time.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Yes, you can reroll engi now.

fixed

They said nothing about bear form, so there’s a little hope.

But yeah, it’s stupid.

Nerf fgs??! Unspeakable!

Well I guess there’s some more variety now so I’m happy for that.
Time to make an engi. :|

Engi, the class that can do almost everything other classes can do. Just in a more complicated way!
But then, some people actually like to make complicated knots with their fingers.

Engi has Vuln going for it which is pretty impressive. But Ele can still use burning retreat assuming FGS isn’t worth using, but hopefully they don’t overnerf it and it’s still worth using.

Everyone reroll into a Norn Elementalist now

I wasn’t entirely serious. I actually like engineers as a class, but I tend to get the aforementioned knot into my fingers whenever I try to use mine effectively. Or I am afraid to get cts because of the constant grenade placement in absence of an auto attack functionality for those.

But those attempts at levity aside, I’m do hope as well that they don’t overreact with the fgs adjustments to make it close to useless with whatever they change.
I have no problem if they tone it down a bit. But in these cases balancing teams across most games I’ve played have a sad tendency to go too far.

Well, don’t you think they’ll simply make fiery rush require a target? It seems like the only solution they’d ever do, if what I know about them is correct. Looks quite possible to me.
Twas about time they woke up, anyway. I really want to see pugs trying to stack in AC now. I really do.

deSade.9437:

Well, don’t you think they’ll simply make fiery rush require a target? It seems like the only solution they’d ever do, if what I know about them is correct. Looks quite possible to me.
Twas about time they woke up, anyway. I really want to see pugs trying to stack in AC now. I really do.

Yeh I think that’s what I would do if I was Anet.

Could it be that pugs failing things without fgs = them having less money to inflate t6 prices and other items? :o

Hmmm… oh gosh. Why u maik me think dis things, swifteh. I ha… nah, still love you.
<3
Eh, dunno, really. I was hoping for some MEANINGFUL change, like… an overhaul of classes like ranger and necro… seems like I’ll have to walk away severely disappointed.
At least no more 3 ellys, rite?

deSade.9437:

Hmmm… oh gosh. Why u maik me think dis things, swifteh. I ha… nah, still love you.
<3
Eh, dunno, really. I was hoping for some MEANINGFUL change, like… an overhaul of classes like ranger and necro… seems like I’ll have to walk away severely disappointed.
At least no more 3 ellys, rite?

Ive always thought, less nerfs and more buffs for underpowered things was the way to go. Especially necros because I’ve always wanted to play one. >_<

J Eberle.9312:

deSade.9437:

Well, don’t you think they’ll simply make fiery rush require a target? It seems like the only solution they’d ever do, if what I know about them is correct. Looks quite possible to me.
Twas about time they woke up, anyway. I really want to see pugs trying to stack in AC now. I really do.

Yeh I think that’s what I would do if I was Anet.

Could it be that pugs failing things without fgs = them having less money to inflate t6 prices and other items? :o

I like the way you think

Changing something which oppressively dominates the meta isn’t meaningful? I say good riddance.

J Eberle.9312:

deSade.9437:

Hmmm… oh gosh. Why u maik me think dis things, swifteh. I ha… nah, still love you.
<3
Eh, dunno, really. I was hoping for some MEANINGFUL change, like… an overhaul of classes like ranger and necro… seems like I’ll have to walk away severely disappointed.
At least no more 3 ellys, rite?

Ive always thought, less nerfs and more buffs for underpowered things was the way to go. Especially necros because I’ve always wanted to play one. >_<

I’m with you on this. My second-main in gw1 was a necro and, back there, it was such a fantastic class with a lot of uniqueness and power attached to it, all seasoned by a very strong flavour of dark arts!
Me loves dem blood mages.
I’d love if anet could stop chopping good classes off and instead worked on broken weapons/professions that need love. I mean real changes, to the core.
Who seriously thinks it’s ok to design a weapon that makes the dodge impossible or delayed? Come on. I’m no genius, but even I see a discrepancy with the other melee weapons.

Idc. I loved my ele before fgs was a thing and I’ll love her when it isn’t. I think the only logical change is actually to change the untargeted rush not do damage but still give the mobility. Because losing that little bit could mean bad things for me. :/

Too much effort, I would presume. I’ll be gladly proven wrong, but I too think the target requirement is what is going to happen.

deSade.9437:

J Eberle.9312:

deSade.9437:

Hmmm… oh gosh. Why u maik me think dis things, swifteh. I ha… nah, still love you.
<3
Eh, dunno, really. I was hoping for some MEANINGFUL change, like… an overhaul of classes like ranger and necro… seems like I’ll have to walk away severely disappointed.
At least no more 3 ellys, rite?

Ive always thought, less nerfs and more buffs for underpowered things was the way to go. Especially necros because I’ve always wanted to play one. >_<

I’m with you on this. My second-main in gw1 was a necro and, back there, it was such a fantastic class with a lot of uniqueness and power attached to it, all seasoned by a very strong flavour of dark arts!
Me loves dem blood mages.
I’d love if anet could stop chopping good classes off and instead worked on broken weapons/professions that need love. I mean real changes, to the core.
Who seriously thinks it’s ok to design a weapon that makes the dodge impossible or delayed? Come on. I’m no genius, but even I see a discrepancy with the other melee weapons.

I think Power Creep is an issue there.

Imagine if everyone had an Elite skill as powerful as FGS? Like If warrior’s Rampage thing made them do 100k+ 100 blades? Or if Guardian’s Tome of Wrath auto attacked for 10k+. I mean some of the buffs they’d have to make to match FGS would be pretty incredible.

That said, I’m all for necros getting a boost

And as far as ranger auto attack, I think that was an unintended thing. In a Wildstar prerelease talk they mentioned it being a technical limitation that GW2 can’t have actions initiate while in the air, and that’s what prevents dodging with ranger sword auto. And I’ve seen a lot of PVP people talking about how they like that leap in the auto attack, so it’d be nice if they gave them another primary melee weapon, the buffs to axe look interesting but it’s damage output just seems low.

Personally the SAB thing really irks me though, I want to play that so badly.

Jerus.4350:

Personally the SAB thing really irks me though, I want to play that so badly.

I never liked SAB because it made me angry. I am the worst jumper in all tyria and Brazil and Dempsey had to hold my hand through the whole thing while I was swearing up a kittening storm. And now they are taking it away.. I want it back. I don’t even know why. It’s just.. their reasons for not going with it are bad (LS rox and braham or something wtf?).. and lots of people really enjoyed it. ugh.

I don’t want to think about the SAB, it makes me feel bad… Like, really bad. My stomach ache seems to be back.
I’d love to see more “OMG WOW” élites, yeah, but…
I think you misunderstood me, though. I don’t think the fgs isn’t op. The damage IS over the top. By “chopping good classes off” I meant literally that, not only fgs. What are they doing to warriors? Nerf axe main, nerf gs, buff axe off-hand 5 (!?!?!?!). What’s this gonna change? Just a small nerf and a meaningless buff.
Ranger? Small damage boost, no difference in traits (no meaningful ones). No change to sword, no change to pets (for instance, pets doing no damage against certain bosses).
Necro? Dagger 2 target and that’s nice…. and buff in survivability. No buff to group support, not any mentioned at least.
Lol.
You see the pattern now, I believe.
Some classes need help.
The thing is, if they’re not terribly underpowered in PvP… you got me.

P.S. About the ranger autoattack…. a dev specifically said they like the idea behind it, “how it works” and overall the design behind it. They had the idea, they liked it, they did it; it doesn’t work well in-game but they refuse to admit it. Them changing the sword completely would mean admitting it wasn’t working in the first place, and I doubt they’ll ever do that.

Jerus.4350:

And as far as ranger auto attack, I think that was an unintended thing. In a Wildstar prerelease talk they mentioned it being a technical limitation that GW2 can’t have actions initiate while in the air, and that’s what prevents dodging with ranger sword auto. And I’ve seen a lot of PVP people talking about how they like that leap in the auto attack, so it’d be nice if they gave them another primary melee weapon, the buffs to axe look interesting but it’s damage output just seems low.

Personally the SAB thing really irks me though, I want to play that so badly.

Wrong. Check Spectral Walk/Flashing Blade/Judge’s Intervention/Save Yourselves to only list a few.

The reason is, animations that move your character cannot be interrupted by dodging, and ranger attacks technically work like those (Savage Leap, Leap of Faith, Heartseeker). They should just disable the moving part and make them normal cleaving attacks like what other profession sword skills have.

hmm, my bad I guess, I always assumed it was the same reason we couldn’t jump and then dodge (you can jump & dodge but not dodge after you jump), All the thing discussed also put you in the air so that’s why I assumed it was the issue. Can you dodge out of burning retreat/ele fire dagger 3, those are the only movement abilities I can think of that don’t put you in the air or aren’t instant (flashing blades/JI are instant).

Either way though, I think anyone in PVE would agree with the change, but I’ve seen quite a bit of opposition from PVP players when it’s been suggested in the ranger forums. It’d be nice if they addressed it some way though, plenty of possible options. I liked the idea someone proposed of a dagger mainhand for ranger as their highest damage melee weapon without the technical limitations sword has.

Oh well they did specifically say tone down so I assume it will simply be a reduction in damage of fiery rush and it may still out-DPS anything else making FGS still worth taking.

I don’t think it would be a nice idea, because it’d mean a no full-cleave main weapon. I don’t like it. I’d rather have a dagger main as the “evasive” (pffttt) weapon and sword as superior melee, cleaving damage.
OR JUST BUFF THE kitten GS ALREADY!!!! And remove the evades, RAMPING UP the damage and vuln highhhh in the sky.
/sob
But this will not happen…. only in my dreams…
/hugs pillow

J Eberle.9312:

deSade.9437:

Well, don’t you think they’ll simply make fiery rush require a target? It seems like the only solution they’d ever do, if what I know about them is correct. Looks quite possible to me.
Twas about time they woke up, anyway. I really want to see pugs trying to stack in AC now. I really do.

Yeh I think that’s what I would do if I was Anet.

Could it be that pugs failing things without fgs = them having less money to inflate t6 prices and other items? :o

You mean PUGs might actually have to learn to play their class instead of being carried by one skill?
Okay that was a bit harsh, but you know what I mean. People will adapt, and the bad players will have an eye opening experience as to how bad they really are.

Jerus.4350:

hmm, my bad I guess, I always assumed it was the same reason we couldn’t jump and then dodge (you can jump & dodge but not dodge after you jump), All the thing discussed also put you in the air so that’s why I assumed it was the issue. Can you dodge out of burning retreat/ele fire dagger 3, those are the only movement abilities I can think of that don’t put you in the air or aren’t instant (flashing blades/JI are instant).

Either way though, I think anyone in PVE would agree with the change, but I’ve seen quite a bit of opposition from PVP players when it’s been suggested in the ranger forums. It’d be nice if they addressed it some way though, plenty of possible options. I liked the idea someone proposed of a dagger mainhand for ranger as their highest damage melee weapon without the technical limitations sword has.

seeing a class with double daggers switch to a greatsword in combat would be cool

deSade.9437:

I don’t think it would be a nice idea, because it’d mean a no full-cleave main weapon. I don’t like it. I’d rather have a dagger main as the “evasive” (pffttt) weapon and sword as superior melee, cleaving damage.
OR JUST BUFF THE kitten GS ALREADY!!!! And remove the evades, RAMPING UP the damage and vuln highhhh in the sky.
/sob
But this will not happen…. only in my dreams…
/hugs pillow

Whats wrong with Dagger>sword, thats how it is on thief
dagger for single target
sword for trash mobs

deSade.9437:

Well, don’t you think they’ll simply make fiery rush require a target? It seems like the only solution they’d ever do, if what I know about them is correct. Looks quite possible to me.
Twas about time they woke up, anyway. I really want to see pugs trying to stack in AC now. I really do.

Lol I hope you’re right about this. Stacking is a great strategy but it limits the variety of strategies used in dungeons.

As for pugs in AC.. I pug all the time (but with experienced dungeoneers) and sometimes we just use IB #5 and burst without a fgs with no problems and save fgs for Kholer (who could also be stacked without fgs easily). I think with less-experienced players however, this would be a risky/less viable strategy though. I admit I’m really hypocritical saying I don’t like LoS stacking when I do it all the time lol.

What I don’t like about this is their constant attempts to balance pve by nerfing players when they should be improving the npc AI imo.

Arenzo.3298:

deSade.9437:

I don’t think it would be a nice idea, because it’d mean a no full-cleave main weapon. I don’t like it. I’d rather have a dagger main as the “evasive” (pffttt) weapon and sword as superior melee, cleaving damage.
OR JUST BUFF THE kitten GS ALREADY!!!! And remove the evades, RAMPING UP the damage and vuln highhhh in the sky.
/sob
But this will not happen…. only in my dreams…
/hugs pillow

Whats wrong with Dagger>sword, thats how it is on thief
dagger for single target
sword for trash mobs

Because I don’t want more useless single target (well, now 2) weapons?
Ranger’s damage is crappy compared to thief already, I don’t want to have one reliable melee weapon that doesn’t cleave. I’m sick of having subpar weapons, I’m really sick of it. If it must be a true melee weapon, it must be full on GOOD.

I’d love to see GS be that weapon, I don’t think it’s too far off. But, like you mention I imagine the evade is holding it’s damage back. Though the reason I don’t play my ranger much is more due to the pets than the weapons. Ranger’s special thing is being hindered by god awful AI pretty much.

And I have to say, I like how the FGS thread has been derailed into a ranger thread

Veckna.9621:

Oh well they did specifically say tone down so I assume it will simply be a reduction in damage of fiery rush and it may still out-DPS anything else making FGS still worth taking.

When Anet nerfs a skill, they usually nerf so hard it’s never used again.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Yes, you can reroll a norn now.

Fixed.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Veckna.9621:

Oh well they did specifically say tone down so I assume it will simply be a reduction in damage of fiery rush and it may still out-DPS anything else making FGS still worth taking.

When Anet nerfs a skill, they usually nerf so hard it’s never used again.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter%27s_Boon_

Jerus.4350:

Can you dodge out of burning retreat/ele fire dagger 3, those are the only movement abilities I can think of that don’t put you in the air or aren’t instant (flashing blades/JI are instant).

• You can’t dodge out from any skills that forcefully try to move your character (by moving I mean excluding teleports). Other examples – warrior greatsword #3 (it does evade but you cannot interrupt it with pressing dodge), Flanking Strike or Bull’s Rush.

• Flashing Blade isn’t instant as it has a motion-animation attached to it, the tooltip is misleading – similarly to Wall of Reflection.

• Being instant or not has nothing to do with being able to cast mid-air or not from my experience, it’s just a weird flag that exists on some skills and not on others. Although I’ll admit most skills of the kind are instant.

Jerus.4350:

I’d love to see GS be that weapon, I don’t think it’s too far off. But, like you mention I imagine the evade is holding it’s damage back. Though the reason I don’t play my ranger much is more due to the pets than the weapons. Ranger’s special thing is being hindered by god awful AI pretty much.

And I have to say, I like how the FGS thread has been derailed into a ranger thread

Woops mah bad.

No but seriously it’s exactly that: the gs can’t be our melee weapon of choice because of its hybrid nature. The GODTHROWKITTENSATIT autoattack! kitten! kitten kitten! kitten! I hate it! I hate the fact that it hits so weak because it needs to have the stupid evade!!!
Why, why not just swap all the evades on the sword, lower the damage and ramp up the gs’ damage? But nooooooo, no, too much work for them, am I right?
/rages

Oh, and the pets aren’t that bad, really. I mostly hate the fact that some bosses were clearly designed by clueless gorillas that don’ tplay ranger, because the pet can’t damage them. It really kittenes me off.
Other than that, they’re quite easy to manage. They should only be more responsive and stop spamming skills at random. And I’d like to see their f2 to be different. For instance, the aoe blast as a f2 instead of the useless cone on drakes.

I think we can all agree that FGS is the biggest bullkitten weapon in the game right now. They just need to tone down the DPS of fiery rush a looooot. Requiring a target to use it kittens over anyone who needs the mobility in PVP and for skipping junk.

deSade.9437:

Jerus.4350:

I’d love to see GS be that weapon, I don’t think it’s too far off. But, like you mention I imagine the evade is holding it’s damage back. Though the reason I don’t play my ranger much is more due to the pets than the weapons. Ranger’s special thing is being hindered by god awful AI pretty much.

And I have to say, I like how the FGS thread has been derailed into a ranger thread

Woops mah bad.

No but seriously it’s exactly that: the gs can’t be our melee weapon of choice because of its hybrid nature. The GODTHROWKITTENSATIT autoattack! kitten! kitten kitten! kitten! I hate it! I hate the fact that it hits so weak because it needs to have the stupid evade!!!
Why, why not just swap all the evades on the sword, lower the damage and ramp up the gs’ damage? But nooooooo, no, too much work for them, am I right?
/rages

Oh, and the pets aren’t that bad, really. I mostly hate the fact that some bosses were clearly designed by clueless gorillas that don’ tplay ranger, because the pet can’t damage them. It really kittenes me off.
Other than that, they’re quite easy to manage. They should only be more responsive and stop spamming skills at random. And I’d like to see their f2 to be different. For instance, the aoe blast as a f2 instead of the useless cone on drakes.

Putting more into the F2 would surely make me like them better. And I really liked someone’s idea they posted about making pets dodge when you did.

I just feel that the mechanic has a lot of drawbacks and there’s no extra oomf for having to deal with it. Pet dies due to it’s own failures in AI and I can be SOL if my swap is on cooldown.

Really though that kinda sums up my view on rangers, a whole lot of possible drawbacks between sword and pets without the extra oomf to show for it. Not saying they’re bad, just wish there was more to them that didn’t make me dislike playing mine is all.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Idc. I loved my ele before fgs was a thing and I’ll love her when it isn’t. I think the only logical change is actually to change the untargeted rush not do damage but still give the mobility. Because losing that little bit could mean bad things for me. :/

Just think of all the mesmers in the game that depend on that fgs mobility. I heart weeps for them…kinda.

I’m hoping that rush will require a target..IMO that’s all that it’ll take to bring it in line. Apparently the mobility of fgs is an exploit though so we will see.

J Eberle.9312:

Nerf fgs??! Unspeakable!

Well I guess there’s some more variety now so I’m happy for that.
Time to make an engi. :|

The engi revolution is among us. Hide yo Guards and hide yo Thieves.

People have actually been asking for pets to gain evasion when you dodge for at least a year now, which is the smartest fix for one of the major ranger problems but I wouldn’t hold your breath. How hard could that be to code really?

JasmineLong.6514:

Apparently the mobility of fgs is an exploit though so we will see.

Please tell me that this isn’t backed up by a quote :-(

dlonie.6547:

JasmineLong.6514:

Apparently the mobility of fgs is an exploit though so we will see.

Please tell me that this isn’t backed up by a quote :-(

I don’t have a quote since that’s what I heard but I would not be surprised if that was part of their reasoning. I do want fgs to be more inline with other stuff and not just be the end all be all of speed clears.

Everyone is just going to have to adapt when the change happens.

Once again another awesome weapon will be neutered.

Instead of tackling the problem from its source, Arenanet chooses to take the easy way out and nerf damage. A very thoughtless approach, as usual.

Anyone that actually knows what they’re talking about would take a look at FotM, where we have actually well-designed encounters, and realize that the problem is not in the weapon or its skill itself. It’s a very appropriate high risk vs high reward skill and it requires more skill and coordinated team play to pull off properly than kiting around with ranged ever will.

The dungeons have been around for so long and are all mind-numblingly easy by comparison to FotM. Most of the bosses have copy/paste mechanics and very basic AI that don’t take long at all to fully learn. People aren’t repeating the same paths every single time because they’re looking to feel “immersed” in the gameplay. That aspect is gone after the first or few experiences. People are doing it for the end chest and that’s it. All FGS does is offer us a way to do it faster. Why shouldn’t we be able to blaze through this content now if it’s literally all we have had to do for roughly 2 years?

People never cease to amaze me with their crappy decisions.

I think future Dungeon Tournaments will be even more interesting.

Purple Miku.7032:

Once again another awesome weapon will be neutered.

Instead of tackling the problem from its source, Arenanet chooses to take the easy way out and nerf damage. A very thoughtless approach, as usual.

Did you expect anything different? I didn’t.
/sigh
Patch after patch, there’s only disappointment. The only thing I liked was the intrigue/party-esque instance at the beginning of the LS, because I actually had a chance to CHOOSE what I wanted to say, for once.
I guess I’ll just play with outfits and dyes and stuff until I get completely burnt out or they finally pull their heads out of their kittens and release some good changes for ranger/new hard zones.

deSade.9437:

Purple Miku.7032:

Once again another awesome weapon will be neutered.

Instead of tackling the problem from its source, Arenanet chooses to take the easy way out and nerf damage. A very thoughtless approach, as usual.

Did you expect anything different? I didn’t.
/sigh
Patch after patch, there’s only disappointment. The only thing I liked was the intrigue/party-esque instance at the beginning of the LS, because I actually had a chance to CHOOSE what I wanted to say, for once.
I guess I’ll just play with outfits and dyes and stuff until I get completely burnt out or they finally pull their heads out of their kittens and release some good changes for ranger/new hard zones.

Releasing difficult content would be against their policies and main objective— to cater to the largest crowd of players. They are only interested in releasing content that everyone is able to complete regardless of what class, what traits, what equipment, what sigils, what runes, etc.

The players that heavily invest themselves in the game and strive to do better are the ones that end up alienated, as they will end up waiting around wondering when the nonsense will end.

I liked the last LS update, but it sucks that all we get is an hour-ish of entertainment then back to grinding the same stuff that we’ve been doing since launch. In that aspect it hasn’t really changed since the first season. At least that hour is entertaining this time.

As I said on the thread about the requested nerf, FGS is not the problem, nerfing it won’t change anything except for the time that you will need to deal with a given encounter. It’s a non-sense nerf for me.

0, 2, 3, 2, 1, 0.

Oh, if anyone wonders, I’ve been talking about the average number of elementalists in speedteams.