Guild Wars 2

FGS rush does a ridiculous amount of damage in a short cast on a short cooldown and it can also be used by another party member. It’s not just hard damage, it’s “5 times as much as the highest actual proper damage ability in the game” hard damage. If you can’t see why it needs a nerf you’ve been blinded by the comfort of using it on endless amounts of clears of easy dungeons. Yes, explorable modes are mostly just meat and they need a rework. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Though I would be kind of pleased if to compensate they make Charr artillery barrage hit like ice bow on crack and don’t touch that for two years.

Actually a fully buffed elementalist is dealing roughly 31-33k DPS with FGS, whereas a fully buffed elementalist using staff is dealing around 14-16k-ish. It’s closer to 2x, not 5×.

Do you think using FGS in FotM demonstrates the need for a nerf just as much as dungeons do? Why or why not?

Purple Miku.7032:

Actually a fully buffed elementalist is dealing roughly 31-33k DPS with fiery rush, whereas a fully buffed elementalist using staff is dealing around 14-16k-ish. It’s closer to 2x, not 5×.

Do you think using FGS in FotM demonstrates the need for a nerf just as much as dungeons do? Why or why not?

Curiuos, is that “Fiery Rush” or with FGS? As things that don’t die in a single rush would then be much lower DPS right?

Personally I’m hoping they simply tone the damage down to make it not as big of a boost but still a boost.

And also you kinda have to take into account the second sword, if a thief picks it up and is getting double isn’t that technically roughly triple the DPS from that Ele?

Purple Miku.7032:

I liked the last LS update, but it sucks that all we get is an hour-ish of entertainment then back to grinding the same stuff that we’ve been doing since launch. In that aspect it hasn’t really changed since the first season. At least that hour is entertaining this time.

Anet claim that they listened to us about the “temporary problem” of the Living World season 1 by making content permanent, however, that wasn’t the whole problem, we want repeatable content with adequate rewards, some of the instance have been interesting but after doing them 4 times (for achievements because you can’t do them all at the same time) and no getting real reward, why should we ever revisit them?

It would also be nice if those repeatable weren’t always open world, Dry Top farming is somewhat ok, but I hate relying on a 75 persons group to be efficient. Hell, I hate having to rely on 5, if only dungeon had a “solo” option with better rewards.

Trice.4598:

Purple Miku.7032:

I liked the last LS update, but it sucks that all we get is an hour-ish of entertainment then back to grinding the same stuff that we’ve been doing since launch. In that aspect it hasn’t really changed since the first season. At least that hour is entertaining this time.

Anet claim that they listened to us about the “temporary problem” of the Living World season 1 by making content permanent, however, that wasn’t the whole problem, we want repeatable content with adequate rewards, some of the instance have been interesting but after doing them 4 times (for achievements because you can’t do them all at the same time) and no getting real reward, why should we ever revisit them?

It would also be nice if those repeatable weren’t always open world, Dry Top farming is somewhat ok, but I hate relying on a 75 persons group to be efficient. Hell, I hate having to rely on 5, if only dungeon had a “solo” option with better rewards.

^^ So much. I actually enjoyed the last mission of the Dragons Reach updates. Baradin was fun, and so was the Summit, if they were given rewards of some kind not tied to achievements or first time completions that could be cool. Maybe something like a gambit system that lets us put additional challenges in for additional rewards.

Jerus.4350:

Purple Miku.7032:

Actually a fully buffed elementalist is dealing roughly 31-33k DPS with fiery rush, whereas a fully buffed elementalist using staff is dealing around 14-16k-ish. It’s closer to 2x, not 5×.

Do you think using FGS in FotM demonstrates the need for a nerf just as much as dungeons do? Why or why not?

Curiuos, is that “Fiery Rush” or with FGS? As things that don’t die in a single rush would then be much lower DPS right?

Personally I’m hoping they simply tone the damage down to make it not as big of a boost but still a boost.

And also you kinda have to take into account the second sword, if a thief picks it up and is getting double isn’t that technically roughly triple the DPS from that Ele?

Yeah thats for fgs in total i believe. Which is why its not quite as over the top as people claim. The issue comes from bosses that melt in 1 rush and are far too easy to rush.

People implying that FGS rush is the main reason why people can clear easily, lol.

Oops, I did phrase that wrong. I indeed meant overall DPS with FGS, not just for the rush like I stated. Sorry.

Purple Miku.7032:

Actually a fully buffed elementalist is dealing roughly 31-33k DPS with fiery rush, whereas a fully buffed elementalist using staff is dealing around 14-16k-ish. It’s closer to 2x, not 5×.

Do you think using FGS in FotM demonstrates the need for a nerf just as much as dungeons do? Why or why not?

Your number of 14-16kish for a staff elementalist sounds quite inflated but whatever. The thing with fiery rush is it’s doing at least 100k damage on a 1.25 second cast, that’s quite clearly ridiculous. It might be 33k DPS if you’re waiting for the ticks, but it’s 80k+ DPCT which (in explorables) allows you to kill mobs before they can do anything.

It’s clearly less OP in fractals because (depending on fractal) 1) fewer walls/stack spots 2)static bosses 3) bosses that are less melee-friendly due to cleaves/PBAoEs 4) generally better mechanics all-round, etc. But that still doesn’t make it balanced. There’s a risk/reward argument with using it in some fractals, but if they want to have risk/reward spells like that, they should be based on some kind of intended functionality. Quickness utility spells are like it, but the risk/reward isn’t really high enough either way. If something’s going to do 100k-150k damage in a single cast, it should have far wider conditions than “have boss against a wall, lose control of your character for 1 and a bit seconds”.

I do have a problem with this nerf because they have given the impression they think FGS is okay by not nerfing it for however many months, so it feels like a U-turn for them to suddenly decide it is OP. However there is a larger problem, which is that they simply don’t care. They don’t care what people do in dungeons, and they don’t care either about fixing* dungeons to make the fights more interesting. It’s only when they finally have to look for some changes to throw into a patch down the line that they bother to address anything. It’s a lottery on if anything gets altered depending on whether they care about it or not. In Arah, you can climb out all over the map and they don’t care, but in their precious Guild Puzzles as soon as people started breaking in they made them port you back to the start and added a bunch of invisible walls. Stuff getting fixed instantly is kind of annoying but also encouraging because it shows they actually care about it, stuff getting fixed after a year is just disheartening.

- I am, of course, talking about giving the explorable dungeons more mechanics, so they actually need some kind of strategy and coordination.

On the one side i think its kinda pitty that fgs is nerfed, because fiery rushing bosses like mossman or archdiviner is really high risk vs high reward and requires more teamplay than anything else (I dont think that any pug group has ever successfully fiery rushed those bosses on lvl 50).
But on the other side nerfing fgs opens room for other classes and increases class diversity (hello engineer and ranger).
Overall i think its a good decision to nerf it.

Bread.7516:

People implying that FGS rush is the main reason why people can clear easily, lol.

Now as I’ve gotten better I of course don’t need FGS, but, I use to find some fights challenging. For instance I didn’t use to know the Destroyer at the end of SE3’s attack patterns, this lead me to taking a lot of really nasty hits. I would be in groups of people at my same skill level. And you know what we could do to get through it? Just wait for FGS to be back up. We’d FGS the first boss, FGS the 3 champs + trash before the Destroyer, then bang our heads on him till FGS was back up then FGS him to win. I always felt it was pretty lame, but that’s why I wanted to learn the fights, now I can get through him mostly unscratched except for some burning. My point being that it was something people could use as a crutch to get through content.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not really in full support of the nerf, I don’t think it’s unreasonable, but I would have preferred they just left it alone. If we as a community really didn’t like it we could simply not use it, just like any exploitative option. Flower jump in TA, Reflect Wall on Lupi, Feedback on Lupi, Mountain goating in general to skip, FGS, Frostbow on burrows, Stacking, LoS, and basically anything that is using our intelligence to outmaneuver the game are all things that we can choose to not do if we feel they are removing fun. If there was support for non FGS runs I’d imagine that they’d have put it on the speedclear records list, I remember there being unrestricted and restricted times. Unrestricted would allow things like the TA Flower skip, restricted wouldn’t. Why couldn’t we have simply had a “No FGS” list? Why couldn’t the tournament stuff have a rule of “No FGS”? If there was support it was completely within our power to avoid it’s use.

I just can’t help but feel that a lot of people enjoyed FGS for what it was. Personally some days I’d be in the mood to just FGS through things and then I’d load up my Ele, but other days I didn’t so i wouldn’t though still sometimes playing Ele. It was as simple as that for me. This idea of “it’s the meta so you have to” is just silly to me. That’s the wonderful thing about PVE, the game stays the same so, no, you don’t have to maximize. Sure if you want the absolute world record, but then again, you could use other exploits to but as a community we said “no that doesn’t count” and we could have here too if we all felt it was an issue. I personally would have loved to see some “non FGS record speeclears”.

Ohh well, what’s done is done.