Guild Wars 2

Okay, seems like the consensus is that people want this epic feeling of slaughtering trash mobs. We’re heroes after all.

Erebus.7568:

Haviz:
proof your right and its not a challenge or your argument got no marits.

as for the challenge of trash mobs.
what you are asking is for each encounter to be hard by simply stacking harder mobs on top of each other without trash.
by this logic one of the best dungeons you could run is a dungeon with 10 lupies one after another each in their own room that closes off when you enter and if you fail any of them you will need to redo ALL of them.
there will ofcouse not be any ability to exploit or bug abuse these 10 lupi’s.

I’d like to but whenever I say something to you I get infractions. May I at least move your attention to spell checker, it should make your posts in future a bit more readable.

About 10 lupis, that would be actually my dream! And while we’re at it, please increase difficulty of at least phase 1. Lupi should spawn grubs on all players and stun them for 5-10s. And what’s this exploit/bug you’re keep saying (advice: don’t post it, just pm me)?

1: need to feel intimidating
this is done by him being +- alone or with very few elite guards. it makes him seem special, if you run into a big room and all there is in a room is a little girl standing in the middle, you get intimidated due to what you espect her to be since she deserves such a big room all by herself.

If every boss were like that, it would be a bit too cliché.

2: need to feel EPICLY strong.
it needs to feel like its a BOSS like its kittening evil and hard.

Agree! More lupis/simin. More tears on forums.

@Erebus.7568

Seriously, if you knew how to play your class, and more importantly, the build, you wouldn’t be dying.
I run with Haviz in Arah and have done all the paths as a “glasscannon” warrior without any of these exploits you so desperately convince yourself we use.
Wha’dya know? I don’t die every 15 seconds.

To be honest I think most of the bosses in the game are designed OK, not great, but they meet the minimum requirements so to speak. They are moderately fun but can probably be a bit more challenging. Except the HotW bosses. Nope, they get the Honor of the Worst boss (hotw! gettit?) award. Underwater controls are shoddy at best and their gigantic HP pool and stupid AI (they never seem to attack downed players) makes the whole encounter completely pointless. The butcher is OK.

Its just the rest of the dungeon feels so dreary to get through.

l0l at the black knight and meh its whatever it like to see bigger dungeons requiring like a raid team of 16

Erebus.7568:

p2,p3 is around just as hard as p1, p4, the only diff is bosses(which is only a real diff at p4 due to dwayna being a kitten if people doesnt know how and even here it can be an issue due to spark ai.) and how easy you can run pass mobs….. you would know this if you actually cleared the mobs instead of running and didnt bug out the bosses at all -.-

If anet says that running through mobs is ok and most of the players do it because it is boring to kill them and some players like haviz are spending a lot of their time in arah then why should they kill trash if they want to? Why would anyone play the game in a way that he doesn’t find enjoyable?

ps: even the VERY best people at running arah is exploiting the place to make it easier, lupi is constantly getting bug abused to avoid him from spawning the grubs,

it is called dodging not bug abusing

running pass 90% of all mobs becouse they can and it saves time

valid tactic, anet says it is ok so what is the problem?

boss mechanics being misused to the max to make them easy mode instead of actually fighting them in a way where they actually utilise their skillsets and effects…

Can you give specific examples in arah?

Even something as TA which you can do easily in 30min, would be somewhat a challenging if you actually killed all the mobs on your way and had to fight them at the flowers instead of just running pass everything.

And when people are going there for tokens they have nothing to gain by killing all the trash, all they want is to get tokens fast. I see nothing wrong with that.

Also you can write thousands of posts and people will still skip mobs and there is nothing you can do to stop that so just deal with it and find people who like to play like you. Everyone will be happy, isn’t that what we all want?

Phoenix.7845:

—

boss mechanics being misused to the max to make them easy mode instead of actually fighting them in a way where they actually utilise their skillsets and effects…

Can you give specific examples in arah?
—

Sure.
Path 1 Ooze: Stay in safe spot.
Path 2 First boss: Stay in safe spot.
Path 2 Alphard: Pull out to avoid clones.
Path 3 Crusher & Hunter: Stay in safe spot / pull to bug.
Path 3 Mage: Stay in safe spot.
Path 4 Melandru: Stay in safe spot.
Path 4 Dwayna: 4/1 trick (questionable) or some tricky pull to make it stuck (I haven’t seen this but heard about it)

Then anet can just fix safespots like they fixed safespot in snow fractal and the problem is gone.

Wethospu.6437:

Sure.
Path 1 Ooze: Stay in safe spot.
Path 2 First boss: Stay in safe spot.
Path 2 Alphard: Pull out to avoid clones.
Path 3 Crusher & Hunter: Stay in safe spot / pull to bug.
Path 3 Mage: Stay in safe spot.
Path 4 Melandru: Stay in safe spot.
Path 4 Dwayna: 4/1 trick (questionable) or some tricky pull to make it stuck (I haven’t seen this but heard about it)

What cheap player would try to use them? Plus, we shouldn’t be talking about exploits on the forums, it’s infraction-guaranteed ;<

The 2nd video is spot on…

Trash mobs motto, ‘none shall pass’ & ’we’ll be back (usually in a few seconds)’

No, trash mobs should be challanging. If they die too quickly they might as well get deleted.

I actually took the time to sign into the forums for the first time and accept the terms of service just so I could post “congrats on starting a flame war Haviz”.

What started as a genuine interest in the topic dissolved into a “wow this is actually aggravating to read”.

I completely agree with the majority in this, it’s a classic part of video games taking on the masses with you and your allies, completely outnumbered. It feels epic! It’s what we love to do. And I certainly would love to see more of it. That’s the reason I love the Grenth event so much. After killing the priest almost every time when the first wave spawns I want to shout “LET THEM COME” as I pop my Lich Form and go ballistic.

And as far as making the silvers more dynamic and requiring my strategy to shake up the bore factor that we all feel currently with them, I’m not really sure like that would fix it for me. If I want something challenging and long I go after champs/legendaries. We don’t need those silver mobs to create that feeling.

Give me mobs of trash led by 1-3 silver “captains”. Give me trash led by a 1 champion. Just please don’t make me fight in a hallway filled with 5-6 silvers…. I want blood and gold. That’s why I play fantasy based video games and the moments in this game that capture that is what I love most.

You know guys, I think my video reference was just slightly off. Hero is a great movie and all, but you know what a dungeon should feel like?

Kill Bill, Volume 1, Crazy 88 onwards. Multiplied by 5.

kKagari.6804:

You know guys, I think my video reference was just slightly off. Hero is a great movie and all, but you know what a dungeon should feel like?

Kill Bill, Volume 1, Crazy 88 onwards. Multiplied by 5.

Seeing as anet said something about nerfing AoE, do you still want to fight 440 mobs at once?

Malediktus.9250:

No, trash mobs should be challanging. If they die too quickly they might as well get deleted.

I think they should die on one hit, they are fillers after all. If trashes are extremely easy rhen boss encounters would be considered a lot tougher by comparison. Now most bosses just die slower than trashes and there is nothing really special about them. Also silver mobs would be something special, now i Arah they are just standard mobs, that die slow and have poor drops, so if people just skip them and proceed to more worthy encounters.

Imo, reduce enemy defensive stats by a reasonable amount and compensate by giving them more damage. Kind of like UW and DoA in GW1, you could solo a foe in those areas in HM if you played it right, but generally if you missed interrupts or prots on specific enemy attacks you died/lost.

Introduction of more enemies with hard/soft cc abilities would also compliment such a change decently. The result of my suggested changes would result in faster runs if your team coordinated skills (prots, heals, dps), while would still be difficult for those who don’t use defensive and offensive abilities strategically. Could potentially just turn into a DPS race, however that would depend on how ANet balanced it. May or may not also need to increase the size of mobs.

Personally I’d like to see more use of CC abilities/setups from players, such as hammer on warrior. Alternating HP for damage could achieve something like that, a change or variance from the meta of ball and spam cleave/AoE, which is effectively a DPS race anyway, obviously there are exceptions.

haviz.1340:

kKagari.6804:

You know guys, I think my video reference was just slightly off. Hero is a great movie and all, but you know what a dungeon should feel like?

Kill Bill, Volume 1, Crazy 88 onwards. Multiplied by 5.

Seeing as anet said something about nerfing AoE, do you still want to fight 440 mobs at once?

This is an interesting question, I shall answer it in several perspectives.

Direct: The crazy 88 actually didn’t have 88 people (apparently), nor do they actually appear all at the same time. GW1 Bonus mission pack actually had a solo dungeon that paid homage to this scene. So, yeah, I wouldn’t mind really.

In light of AoE nerf: My hunch is that the AoE nerf might actually be just an improvement on enemy AI; a similar change like this happened in GW1, where the AI would learn to walk out of persistent AoE. A part of me still thinks this won’t be the case because the devs explicitly mentioned damage.

HOWEVER: The AoE nerf doesn’t actually bother me too much. GW2’s borderline menial gameplay has caused me to become lazy, often I make builds in PvE that put significance on autoattack rather than ‘rotations’, simply because I can 111111 my way through everything. Typically I like to pick weapons that ‘cleave’ (hits enemies to the sides of your target). I don’t think these AoE cleaves will be adjusted much since the AoE component of the attack is instrumental to the auto attack. So what does that mean? I think the idea of waving my thief’s sword auto attack through a huge group of enemies with them dying in a few hits is highly entertaining. I’d also like the encounter to be difficult though.

TLDR: Yes.

Like bosses, trash mobs feel like they are balanced for groups having much, much higher DPS.

I agree that killing them should be a little faster.

Just like lots of HP doesn’t make things harder, less HP doesn’t necessarily make things significantly easier.

kKagari.6804:

This is an interesting question, I shall answer it in several perspectives.

Direct: The crazy 88 actually didn’t have 88 people (apparently), nor do they actually appear all at the same time. GW1 Bonus mission pack actually had a solo dungeon that paid homage to this scene. So, yeah, I wouldn’t mind really.

In light of AoE nerf: My hunch is that the AoE nerf might actually be just an improvement on enemy AI; a similar change like this happened in GW1, where the AI would learn to walk out of persistent AoE. A part of me still thinks this won’t be the case because the devs explicitly mentioned damage.

HOWEVER: The AoE nerf doesn’t actually bother me too much. GW2’s borderline menial gameplay has caused me to become lazy, often I make builds in PvE that put significance on autoattack rather than ‘rotations’, simply because I can 111111 my way through everything. Typically I like to pick weapons that ‘cleave’ (hits enemies to the sides of your target). I don’t think these AoE cleaves will be adjusted much since the AoE component of the attack is instrumental to the auto attack. So what does that mean? I think the idea of waving my thief’s sword auto attack through a huge group of enemies with them dying in a few hits is highly entertaining. I’d also like the encounter to be difficult though.

TLDR: Yes.

Good to know they weren’t so many!

About AoE nerf, anyone with logical capabilites knows that they won’t just nerf the damage because every melee weapon except daggers on thief is AoE.

haviz.1340:

Good to know they weren’t so many!

About AoE nerf, anyone with logical capabilites knows that they won’t just nerf the damage because every melee weapon except daggers on thief is AoE.

I kind of interpret the AoE nerf as only affecting ground target and/or proper AoE spells. Cleave skills whilst AoE, aren’t necessarily in the same bracket as skills such as lava font, chaos storm etc etc.

It’s kind of a difficult concept to explain, you’ll either understand or not. Could end up being wrong, but classes with swords/greatswords would all end up with nerfed auto attacks, which would seem kind of weird.

BASICALLY; I’m agreeing with your point that a nerf to all damage that isn’t pure single target isn’t an ideal approach to toning down AoE.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

haviz.1340:

Good to know they weren’t so many!

About AoE nerf, anyone with logical capabilites knows that they won’t just nerf the damage because every melee weapon except daggers on thief is AoE.

I kind of interpret the AoE nerf as only affecting ground target and/or proper AoE spells. Cleave skills whilst AoE, aren’t necessarily in the same bracket as skills such as lava font, chaos storm etc etc.

It’s kind of a difficult concept to explain, you’ll either understand or not. Could end up being wrong, but classes with swords/greatswords would all end up with nerfed auto attacks, which would seem kind of weird.

BASICALLY; I’m agreeing with your point that a nerf to all damage that isn’t pure single target isn’t an ideal approach to toning down AoE.

I understand that, but take a look at all those panicking ele on their subforum. Their argument is that 18 out of 20 skills are AoE (which obviously is true only if you count cleave skills, gap glosers and cone skills).

haviz.1340:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

haviz.1340:

Good to know they weren’t so many!

About AoE nerf, anyone with logical capabilites knows that they won’t just nerf the damage because every melee weapon except daggers on thief is AoE.

I kind of interpret the AoE nerf as only affecting ground target and/or proper AoE spells. Cleave skills whilst AoE, aren’t necessarily in the same bracket as skills such as lava font, chaos storm etc etc.

It’s kind of a difficult concept to explain, you’ll either understand or not. Could end up being wrong, but classes with swords/greatswords would all end up with nerfed auto attacks, which would seem kind of weird.

BASICALLY; I’m agreeing with your point that a nerf to all damage that isn’t pure single target isn’t an ideal approach to toning down AoE.

I understand that, but take a look at all those panicking ele on their subforum. Their argument is that 18 out of 20 skills are AoE (which obviously is true only if you count cleave skills, gap glosers and cone skills).

Meh, I think what the devs said about reducing the difficulty after removing the waypoint rushing is more of an issue.

kKagari.6804:

Meh, I think what the devs said about reducing the difficulty after removing the waypoint rushing is more of an issue.

How is the difficulty an issue? Unless you mean dungeons are already too easy.

haviz.1340:

kKagari.6804:

Meh, I think what the devs said about reducing the difficulty after removing the waypoint rushing is more of an issue.

How is the difficulty an issue? Unless you mean dungeons are already too easy.

I don’t think I could have worded that any clearer. “Devs reducing difficulty” + “more of an issue” = Yes dungeons are quite easy for the time being. And boring.