Guild Wars 2

I get two shoutouts!? Sweet, Will give it a watch later tonight (no sound at work).

I think this is a great idea. When it comes to finding information it can be annoying or poorly written. So I can imagine both new players and veterans will find this to be a good medium to output info and receive it. There are plenty of people on the forms who will love to help you, myself included. Hopefully this will remove some of the stigma from “elitists” so people will know not all of us are kittens (though many of us are saltier than the ocean :P).

PS: I agree about the aetherblade path for TA, it was pretty good but unskipable cutscenes, ugh!

Hey OP,

You have me interested. Just a note for your next video, will you consider to summarize your major points in a caption format. I admit that I have a hard time following what you said, plus the accent (I’m sorry)!

So I’ve typed this out twice and ended up just having rants

So short and sweet. Enjoyed the video, agree with basically all the commentary. Not sure anything can or even needs to be done. It’s a social/people issue you’re discussing. No matter how well you explain, no matter what style you use be it positive, negative, or just logic and reason, these people who oppose things will continue to do so.

Most new players I find do seem to follow the guides of DnT or the ones Dulfy has posted and are grateful when I expose them to things like gw2dungeons. So I don’t really see it as a huge issue, just a lot of loud people hating.

Not completely sure what your goal is, but more people talking reasonably about things is great. If there’s something I can do, I’m down.

I’ll be happy to pass along your channel.

Quick shoutout, but I want to thank Brazil for spending the time he has, I wasn’t a big fan till I saw that Brazil vs Nemesis teatime. I think the tone you portrayed there is exactly what this community needs.

To get a little ranty. I think that our community often gets a bit extremist, we focus too much on optimal and ignore so many things. Not all players are Sesshi/Abe/Element/Purple Miku/Wethospu(do I have to list them all?) and well, we can’t play at that level (yes We, I’m not that great as anyone who has played with me will attest to, just apparently a good enough attitude to get invites back).

With that there are deviations and alternatives to what is optimal that simply fit most players better. I’ll take an example of my own failures, I simply can’t handle ranger sword very well, I find it cumbersome and annoying, so I’ve made it my mission to optimize my GS options (and now condi! love it). We don’t often discuss these suboptimal builds though, we focus on the best, do it or kitten off. Now I want to say that some (a lot) of the guide makers have taken the time to suggest alternatives and ways to take easier routes, but as a community we often shun them. Speed running is great, but that’s not what your average player and PUG group is doing. They’re trying to get through as easy as possible while maintaining some attention to time. No one wants to go full nomad, but not everyone is able to handle meta.

It’s been something I’ve noticed since I first joined this game, an annoyance that’s bothered me for a long time. Something I’ve done what I am capable of to combat, but I just don’t have the motivation, devotion or time to really address. I’d LOVE to see more guides on “easymode” options. I look back to my old group which ran what we dubbed the ‘braindead meta", day one of phalanx strength we rejoiced because it meant we could have high might while sitting with a hammer guard and perma protection making almost every dungeon a faceroll. I can’t help but feel that type of thing would be helpful to people. How to make things smooth and easy while maintaining a decent time (we averaged 4-5min SE1 for example, sure it’s no speed run, but it’s nothing to complain about).

So, like I said ranty. But, I look at Skady’s post, I find the responses revolting. There’s obviously power in it, you could tell from the videos. And, now having run with her, kitten some of the smoothest 50’s I’ve ever done, and they were kittening 3 man! There’s power to tap there, but we ignore it because it’s not optimal. No one’s saying speed runs and organized dungeon guilds running full groups should pick it up, it’s just a solid option and something worth considering. But, instead of embracing it we saw a backlash against it. It was pretty sad to me.

But on the flip side, this is where I feel the anti-meta people come into play. With them around we kind of need to squash all these alternatives because it’s a slippery slope. “ok bringing one clerics guard can make a group much easier” and then suddenly we see 3 clerics guards in a PUG group and facepalm ourselves to death.

And that’s where I feel the human element comes in. People simply take what they want from people talking about stuff. THey hear “clerics guard can be effective and make a run easier” and suddenly they stack 5 clerics guards and think that’s a good idea. It’s not just our community that goes to extremes it’s also those watching and following our community. It takes a level of understanding beyond what most people put in to really “get it”.

So again, ranty, I know, but I just feel that the problems we see aren’t really fixable, they’re the result of failures due to the human element. People listening and taking in what they want rather than what is said. People falling into the black and white issue (which we all know doesn’t really exist). People hanging on every word of certain people (not the people to blame, but the misunderstandings of their listeners).

I’ll end with another little story, last night I did an Arah4 path, went fine, but it was one of those “ping gear” groups and at the time I thought sure whatever, not usually my style but I feel like doing Arah and p4 is fun. So I join, he was also asking for an Ele. Problem was he was dead set on getting an Ele. Well, we end up getting to Lupi before we find an Ele, half a dozen other professions joining but getting kicked, so we 4 man all the way there. Get an Ele that’s quite frankly mediocre at best. But he’s satisfied. We continue, get to grenth and the Ele doesn’t know what to do so we basically 4.5 man that. Go do one of the longest Simin fights I’ve ever done, and then contrary to the post (:D) do the tree skip which most need a portal (thank you mesmer if you read this you know who you are but I don’t want to name names) and we get to the boss then do that. So the whole time I’m laughing my kitten off, an Ele is nice and all but really not necessary, but instead of taking a guard which would have been great on Melandru, might have been able to pull off the melee instead of dropping to range, we just sit and wait because it’s “optimal” to have Ele’s. It’s just kind of silly. But, that’s something that’s bred in the community. And the type of attitude I find a bit off. Run 2 ele, war, guard, thief in a dungeon guild trying to speed run everything, sure, but when it comes to PUGs, 4 manning a dungeon vs taking something else… well, it’s silly.

So to finally end, I think a reasonable approach and concessions to factor in skill levels is something that would help the approach of our community. I feel like a hypocrite saying it in that I don’t really do much myself, I’m just a “forum warrior” as people often call me when I end up in groups with them, but I think it’d help our image if that type of thing exists. Love you all, and sorry for ranting but ehh, as usual I’m well into a bottle of whiskey and felt like elaborating on my view

Jerus.4350:

Not all players are Sesshi/Abe/Element/Purple Miku/Wethospu(do I have to list them all?) and well, we can’t play at that level (yes We, I’m not that great as anyone who has played with me will attest to, just apparently a good enough attitude to get invites back).

How did you manage to miss Goku/Sanderinoa/Robyn/Austin/Deathly/Dub and many more?? :’(

Maybe not Dub since he quits xD

:D, to many to name in my drunken ramblings above! They all make me feel bad anyways!

I appreciate the effort (and the shoutout :P), but are you sure you want to be the one to stand up and defend this community?

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

better understanding of our community for the casual outsider, washing the name and beliefs that we are elitists jerks etc.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Healing-Guard-Q-A

Sometimes reputations are quite well earned.

dlonie.6547:

I appreciate the effort (and the shoutout :P), but are you sure you want to be the one to stand up and defend this community?

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

better understanding of our community for the casual outsider, washing the name and beliefs that we are elitists jerks etc.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Healing-Guard-Q-A

Sometimes reputations are quite well earned.

Which post there would you point to as an example of jerk-ish elitism?

You serious?

I’ll humor ya. A couple quotes:

- So basically this “Healing Guard” setup is for bad people.

Exploring options other than full zerk is something only ‘bads’ do: Elitism.

- The reason there is once again a discussion about this stems from Skadys intense craving for attention and self validation.

Attempting to spark a discussion about a non-meta playstyle is dismissed out-of-hand as attention seeking. Elitist jerkism.

- what people are arguing about is her intense need to talk down on people in order to self validate, because apparently only elite level players can do fotm trios in full zerk comps.

Twisting words from someone who has been nothing but mature and constructive in their posts as “talking down … in order to self validate”. Not really sure where to begin with that one.

- You don’t see people posting “berserker elementalist Q&A” so why would using clerics gear make you so interesting that you have to host a “Q&A” about it?

It’s not important to me, thus it’s of no interest to anyone: elitist jerkism.

Seriously, read the OP’s posts, and then look at the tone and content of the replies. When you’re finished, let me know if you view the subforum as a welcoming place for mature discussion with a community that deserves defending.

Lets carry the last pointless discussion onto a new thread so that one gets closed as well, great idea!

I wanted your answer, which is why I asked. So yes, I was serious.

FWIW, I agree with you there is a lot of pseudo elitism in there, but I also agree that the entire thread was intended to be trollbait. I don’t know Skady personally, but I have to assume she knows exactly what the response would be and generating that response was the plan from the start.

Far too much assumption on your part then, Nike. Personally, I read nothing but good intentions and an attempt to recruit players from the thread in question.

In my opinion, the reason why there isn’t any kind of discussion to be had in this subforum is because there is this negative kind of base attitude present in a lot of (veteran, or at least vocal) players. Someone posts something not involving “zerker” and “dodge”, the replies are immediately “troll?”, “flame-bait?” “<insert lame picture”, “<create even more lame satire thread>” and so on and so forth.

I kinda gave up posting here, but the way Jerus spoke up in favour of the clerics guard really made me realize that not replying simply means that we’ll let this negative behaviour continue unchallenged. Props to you too, dlonie, I agree on all points.

Hi, you seem to be quoting me in particular there so lets talk some facts

1. This isn’t the first thread Skady has made, nor will it be the last. But believe me, people got it the first time. A Q&A is usually made when requested by popular demand. Can you see popular demand in the thread? Negative. It was merely made to remain relevant on the Dungeons&Fractals board, even though the topic has been talked to death.

2. Passive aggression to which I reply with the need to talk others down in order to self validate. To directly quote “I have absolutely no doubts that there are people out there who are really good at this game and play with other really good players for 5 years together and they can do fractal trios faster and maybe even post a video of it some day.” No, it does not take a really good team of really good players who play together for 5 years to do what she does at the same speed/more. The whole comment is just a passive aggressive troll bait.

3. I’m sorry if I may or may not seem pseudo elitist, but these sort of comments combined with the ones posted on Reddit a month ago just do not apply. Her team is not the only selling trio runs, performing them in time efficient manner. Posting passive aggressive replies like “I was always curious as to how full-zerk trio runs go. I always wanted to compare but I could not find any other trio team that could do at least 10 runs and compare times.” are simply weird, in the sense that there are many teams I’d reckon who’d love the challenge. They are easy to find, too, just open LFG and see who is avertising. Yet no one is ever asked.

4. I apologize for being ragy, I just got incredibly triggered because this sort of thread brought back bad memories.

5. Agreeing with bladex, let’s leave the past behind. I shall keep my pseudo elitism with me, if that is fine with you. Until the next thread is opened by her.

Have a good night

bladex, I’m not trying to restart the conversation. My post means what it says: Does the OP really see (what’s left of) the dungeon community as a group worth defending in light of their behavior? I’m not trying to debate the previous topic about the usefulness of a healing guard in FotM 50’s.

Nike, you’re entitled to that perception, and appreciate the mature tone with which you expressed it. Personally, I have a hard time seeing it as trollbait. Several respected regulars vouched for Skady, saying their runs with her have been smooth and fast, with less pressure than going full zerk. Her posts were constructive, non-inflammatory, friendly, and communicated with a helpful tone. She responded maturely to criticisms and engaged in reasoned discussion with the few valid arguments that were brought up.

The way she was jumped on and torn apart for sharing her playstyle makes this forum look like the exact opposite of what Lux is trying to portray us as. If it were me, I’d not bother sticking up for this community when this is how we react to ideas that don’t fit our particular playstyle preferences.

It is easy to play the victim if you purposefully throw yourself under the bus.

Now that this thread went to kitten anyways…

Thor pretty much said exactly whats wrong with those specific threads.
Its not the fact that she is using clerics gear that is kittening people off, its the continuous craving for self validation and baiting for people to agree with her ideas.

Dlonie your claims that this comes forth out of “elitist jerkism” are not true, it has nothing to do with elitism.
I personally got offended by her passive aggressive way of saying that you have to be part of some sort of elite to be able to trio fractals, and that nobody can achieve a fractal trio as smooth as her.
This extremely pretentious attitude is literally the definition of elitism.

If anyone is being an elitist, its her by implying you can only do smooth fractal trios with clerics gear

“- You don’t see people posting “berserker elementalist Q&A” so why would using clerics gear make you so interesting that you have to host a “Q&A” about it?
It’s not important to me, thus it’s of no interest to anyone: elitist jerkism.”

There was no demand for this Q&A thing at all, nobody had ANY questions about it.
The only thing that came slightly close to being something that could be answered was Nike’s comment about clerics not being the best option, and even that could have just been answered in the thread itself.

It literally is of no interest to anyone, so it shouldn’t be posted.

Stop trying to make it look like we’re a bunch of elitist by making the usage of her gear the problem, because its not her gear, its her kittenty attitude

theoutsider.7849:

It is easy to play the victim if you purposefully throw yourself under the bus.

So you agree with Dlonie, the community is exactly what people say it is and proposing anything outside the meta is throwing yourself under the bus. Cool, sounds like we’re all in agreement right now.

Jerus.4350:

theoutsider.7849:

It is easy to play the victim if you purposefully throw yourself under the bus.

So you agree with Dlonie, the community is exactly what people say it is and proposing anything outside the meta is throwing yourself under the bus. Cool, sounds like we’re all in agreement right now.

Yes keep ignoring every argument we bring up and keep making the usage of gear the issue, very mature.
Apparently you’re still stuck in the past so let me write it here again : its not the gear, its her attitude

The problem with the community is that there is a certain group of attention seeking people that say things just to provoke other people into responding, and then playing the victim role and blaming it on elitism.

theoutsider.7849:

Hi, you seem to be quoting me in particular there so lets talk some facts

FWIW, I kept the quotes anonymous to not single anyone out. There is a mob-mentality that crops up in this subforum (all forums, honestly…) where people get sucked in and jump on to the bash-train. I don’t wish to hold any one person here up and say “You’re an elitist jerk!”. It was a group reaction, as I see it.

1. This isn’t the first thread Skady has made, nor will it be the last. But believe me, people got it the first time. A Q&A is usually made when requested by popular demand. Can you see popular demand in the thread? Negative. It was merely made to remain relevant on the Dungeons&Fractals board, even though the topic has been talked to death.

I saw it in a different light. There are a lot of people who don’t like how ‘zerk is king’. Skady found a way to still have really decent times and be useful while switching to clerics. Here’s what I know of Skady’s posting history:

1) Months ago, there was a post in another subforum about her style, and she was looking for people to play with.
2) A few days ago, she made a post in an attempt to have a mature, constructive discussion about the usefulness of bringing a defensive guardian to help less-experienced player, and also allow more experienced players to maximize their DPS by enabling them to forego active defenses. This thread included “Looking for” in the title and got moved to the “Looking for” subforum.
3) There was still some dungeon-relevant, ongoing discussion in the moved thread. So she created a new one, focused specifically on dungeon-related issues, to continue the ongoing conversation.

At which point does that become attention seeking? It seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Was it because she cross-posted on reddit? Well, Weth did the same with his necro cave troll solo, and that thread was clearly intended as obvious troll bait. Why do we tear down one and not the other?

2. Passive aggression to which I reply with the need to talk others down in order to self validate. To directly quote “I have absolutely no doubts that there are people out there who are really good at this game and play with other really good players for 5 years together and they can do fractal trios faster and maybe even post a video of it some day.” No, it does not take a really good team of really good players who play together for 5 years to do what she does at the same speed/more. The whole comment is just a passive aggressive troll bait.

I saw it as a lighthearted exaggeration. The point, I believe, is that not everyone is able to play with the skill level required to do FotM 50 in zerk, that there aren’t a lot of videos available of trios at that level, and that she was inviting people to share their videos for comparison if they had them.

Sounds harmless enough to me, but let’s agree to disagree on that one — I can’t debate your interpretation of her statement.

3. I’m sorry if I may or may not seem pseudo elitist, but these sort of comments combined with the ones posted on Reddit a month ago just do not apply. Her team is not the only selling trio runs, performing them in time efficient manner. Posting passive aggressive replies like “I was always curious as to how full-zerk trio runs go. I always wanted to compare but I could not find any other trio team that could do at least 10 runs and compare times.” are simply weird, in the sense that there are many teams I’d reckon who’d love the challenge. They are easy to find, too, just open LFG and see who is avertising. Yet no one is ever asked.

Again, I think she was looking for someone to step up and offer to provide some comparisons, not trying to put anyone down. Text is tone-deaf, and we tend to flavor it with our own ideas about how it is intended to sound. I try not to jump to the conclusion that someone is being nasty unless they’re overtly doing so, because that has burned me often in the past.

4. I apologize for being ragy, I just got incredibly triggered because this sort of thread brought back bad memories.

5. Agreeing with bladex, let’s leave the past behind. I shall keep my pseudo elitism with me, if that is fine with you. Until the next thread is opened by her.

Have a good night

You weren’t the only one, and it’s easy to get caught up in the rage. No problem on my end, but if we do want to be portrayed as a community worth having a reputation that is mature, reasonable, and helpful, we need to learn to pull ourselves together and not act that way. Otherwise the stigma will (justifiably) continue.

Jerus.4350:

theoutsider.7849:

It is easy to play the victim if you purposefully throw yourself under the bus.

So you agree with Dlonie, the community is exactly what people say it is and proposing anything outside the meta is throwing yourself under the bus. Cool, sounds like we’re all in agreement right now.

Talk about twisting words
The bus, in this case, is making the fourth thread about the same thing. “Look at me, I play this way.” We know already. I’m not gonna mention the facetious behaviour now, since it seems not everyone can see it.

bladex.9502:

Dlonie your claims that this comes forth out of “elitist jerkism” are not true, it has nothing to do with elitism.
I personally got offended by her passive aggressive way of saying that you have to be part of some sort of elite to be able to trio fractals, and that nobody can achieve a fractal trio as smooth as her.
This extremely pretentious attitude is literally the definition of elitism.

If anyone is being an elitist, its her by implying you can only do smooth fractal trios with clerics gear

Again, I didn’t get that at all. She didn’t say that you needed clerics gear for a smooth trio, just that it makes it easier and doing it in zerk requires a lot of skill that much of the GW2 playerbase simply doesn’t have. She may be guilty of exaggeration with the “playing together for 5 years” comment, but that wasn’t nasty, just tongue-in-cheek.

“- You don’t see people posting “berserker elementalist Q&A” so why would using clerics gear make you so interesting that you have to host a “Q&A” about it?
It’s not important to me, thus it’s of no interest to anyone: elitist jerkism.”

There was no demand for this Q&A thing at all, nobody had ANY questions about it.
The only thing that came slightly close to being something that could be answered was Nike’s comment about clerics not being the best option, and even that could have just been answered in the thread itself.

It literally is of no interest to anyone, so it shouldn’t be posted.

You’re demonstrating the exact attitude that I mentioned in that quote: “It’s not important to me, thus it’s of no interest to anyone.”

I personally found it interesting and was enjoying reading the discussion before it went to kitten. If you really believe that anything you don’t find interesting is “literally of no interest to anyone”, there’s not much reason to continue any conversations with you. That’s an attitude that’s just going to cause problems.

Stop trying to make it look like we’re a bunch of elitist by making the usage of her gear the problem, because its not her gear, its her kittenty attitude

I’ve been addressing her attitude the whole time. She’s been mature, constructive, and helpful in her posts. There was some playfulness in her prompts for zerk material to compare to, but nothing overtly nasty.

But as I said, we read text with the tone we want it it have, and if you want someone to be nasty, you can always find a way to interpret it that way.

dlonie.6547:

I saw it as a lighthearted exaggeration. The point, I believe, is that not everyone is able to play with the skill level required to do FotM 50 in zerk, that there aren’t a lot of videos available of trios at that level, and that she was inviting people to share their videos for comparison if they had them.

The reason there aren’t many videos on that specific subject is because it honestly isn’t worth capturing.
Everybody that is able to do a fractal 50 in a 5 man setup (without getting carried) is also able to trio it.
Apparently tho, she thinks its so interesting that she has to make 4 threads about it just to convince everybody of the skill level required to trio a fractal.

here’s a video of a fractal being done solo

This requires actual skill, but I don’t see Abe posting 4 threads about it (and he sure as hell isn’t using clerics gear, which is apparently needed for smooth runs according to Skady)

She wasn’t inviting people to share there videos for comparison, she was trying to show how great she was and convincing everybody that her way is the only right way to do it

If her sole intention was to gather material to compare to her own runs, then she could have just made a thread “Hey, could anyone send me videos of their fractal trios? I want to compare them to my own fractal trios”.
No need to mention what gear she uses, or how she does those trios, or how she thinks a trio should be done

bladex.9502:

dlonie.6547:

I saw it as a lighthearted exaggeration. The point, I believe, is that not everyone is able to play with the skill level required to do FotM 50 in zerk, that there aren’t a lot of videos available of trios at that level, and that she was inviting people to share their videos for comparison if they had them.

The reason there aren’t many videos on that specific subject is because it honestly isn’t worth capturing.

There’s that attitude again…Remember that just because something isn’t immediately useful for you doesn’t make it void of any intrinsic value. Just off the top of my head, the ability to compare pure-zerk vs. cleric+zerk times would be a very valuable reason that it would be worth capturing trio runs in this instance.

Everybody that is able to do a fractal 50 in a 5 man setup (without getting carried) is also able to trio it.
Apparently tho, she thinks its so interesting that she has to make 4 threads about it just to convince everybody of the skill level required to trio a fractal.

here’s a video of a fractal being done solo

This requires actual skill, but I don’t see Abe posting 4 threads about it

So what if he did post four threads across two sites over several month about it?

Skady is sharing a successful strategy that, in all honesty, a large segment of the playerbase has been begging for over the last several years. That’s worth being vocal about.

(and he sure as hell isn’t using clerics gear, which is apparently needed for smooth runs according to Skady)

I’ve not seen her say this. Can you provide a link?

She wasn’t inviting people to share there videos for comparison, she was trying to show how great she was and convincing everybody that her way is the only right way to do it

This too — I haven’t seen this. Can you link to the bit where she says “I’m great” (or similar) and/or “this is the only right way to play” (or similar)?

In case anyone cares, Cat ran the numbers with her build setup vs the same build with Zealots as she recommends vs Celestial as I do…

https://gist.github.com/towelcat/237fe13a62378165c07d#file-2015-08-19_15-27-16-txt

as you can see, Celestial significantly tankier AND has better DPS. Which is exactly what I predicted. So when she said “celestial was worse” what is that based on?

There are multiple ways to interpretate this, I agree.
But her excessive usage of wink emoticons, multiple mentions of there not being a lot of videos about it (which to me sounds like she is implying not many people are able to do it), and that “Sesshi-level players” line makes me think she is pretty pretentious in the claims she makes

Note that this is only from the specific thread that got derailed and is now locked, I didn’t bother to include everything from the other threads as well, but there’s plenty of these same kind of statements

Again, if her intention was anything else than what I wrote above, she could have posted things less sarcastically

bladex, maybe it’s a cultural issue then? When I’m from, a wink emoticon means “I’m joking, don’t take this too seriously” or, “I’m exaggerating here, but I hope you get my meaning.” I’ve not heard of winking implying sarcastic superiority, but I learn new things every day and cultural differences can be surprising!

Nike, might want to make a new thread or PM those numbers to her. Hard to argue with numbers, and I’m not sure she’d see it here (or bother coming back to this forum after losing 2 threads and dealing with a ton of hostility…). To answer your question — IIRC, she tried cele, didn’t personally like it over clerics, and stuck with what she was comfortable with.

It’s probably a cultural issue, I’m also used to winking implying sarcastic superiority. In general I despise the emoticons being used at all because they are extremely ambiguous to the situation.

Wow, dlonie, you are so brave! Hats off to you, but again please let the matter rest.

@theoutsider:

Let me give you an example of “throwing oneself under the bus”

Excuse me if I miss anything from your twitch. Which facts are you talking about?

are you just another illiterate white knight?

It is true that I missed the paragraph of you expressing how badly your group performed yet still matched the time proposed by Skady’s trio. But hey, 30 minutes or less isn’t the entire point of her setup. It’s also about being smooth without wipe, enjoyable over friendly bantering on TeamSpeak and above all, being comfortable with any players she plays with. Alright, that was actually what I planned to reply to your post. I would have said some more meaningful things. But then the word “illiterate whiteknight” puts me off. So, in order to let your point come across, it’s necessary for you, as an individual, to talk down to someone else, as courteous as I can with some nasty words like that?

Keep your elitism close.

theory: if nemisis was a female, this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oueBpmhAU-o wouldn’t be a joke and he’d have people defending him left and right.

:D

:D

:D

Iris Ng.9845:

Excuse me if I miss anything from your twitch. Which facts are you talking about?

are you just another illiterate white knight?

It is true that I missed the paragraph of you expressing how badly your group performed yet still matched the time proposed by Skady’s trio. But hey, 30 minutes or less isn’t the entire point of her setup. It’s also about being smooth without wipe, enjoyable over friendly bantering on TeamSpeak and above all, being comfortable with any players she plays with. Alright, that was actually what I planned to reply to your post. I would have said some more meaningful things. But then the word “illiterate whiteknight” puts me off. So, in order to let your point come across, it’s necessary for you, as an individual, to talk down to someone else, as courteous as I can with some nasty words like that?

Keep your elitism close.

Illiterate
adjective
1.
unable to read and write:

You missed the (most important) paragraph of his post, respond to him while ignoring that paragraph, and then blame him for calling you Illiterate?
I’m not saying you’re not able to read, but it sure looks like you weren’t trying to

I don’t take the time to thoroughly read what someone else is saying but I expect not to get talked down on, stupid elitists!

bladex.9502:

Iris Ng.9845:

Excuse me if I miss anything from your twitch. Which facts are you talking about?

are you just another illiterate white knight?

It is true that I missed the paragraph of you expressing how badly your group performed yet still matched the time proposed by Skady’s trio. But hey, 30 minutes or less isn’t the entire point of her setup. It’s also about being smooth without wipe, enjoyable over friendly bantering on TeamSpeak and above all, being comfortable with any players she plays with. Alright, that was actually what I planned to reply to your post. I would have said some more meaningful things. But then the word “illiterate whiteknight” puts me off. So, in order to let your point come across, it’s necessary for you, as an individual, to talk down to someone else, as courteous as I can with some nasty words like that?

Keep your elitism close.

Illiterate
adjective
1.
unable to read and write:

You missed the (most important) paragraph of his post, respond to him while ignoring that paragraph, and then blame him for calling you Illiterate?
I’m not saying you’re not able to read, but it sure looks like you weren’t trying to

I don’t take the time to thoroughly read what someone else is saying but I expect not to get talked down on, stupid elitists!

“Illiterate white knight”

“you missed a paragraph I wrote <insert quote here>”

Both would have sufficed to inform her that she was mistaken. Maybe we aren’t full of elitist jerks but just people that have no tact at all? It certainly can get hard to understand someone’s actual meaning through an onslaught of sarcasm, hyperbole and extreme language.

Jerus.4350:

bladex.9502:

Iris Ng.9845:

Excuse me if I miss anything from your twitch. Which facts are you talking about?

are you just another illiterate white knight?

It is true that I missed the paragraph of you expressing how badly your group performed yet still matched the time proposed by Skady’s trio. But hey, 30 minutes or less isn’t the entire point of her setup. It’s also about being smooth without wipe, enjoyable over friendly bantering on TeamSpeak and above all, being comfortable with any players she plays with. Alright, that was actually what I planned to reply to your post. I would have said some more meaningful things. But then the word “illiterate whiteknight” puts me off. So, in order to let your point come across, it’s necessary for you, as an individual, to talk down to someone else, as courteous as I can with some nasty words like that?

Keep your elitism close.

Illiterate
adjective
1.
unable to read and write:

You missed the (most important) paragraph of his post, respond to him while ignoring that paragraph, and then blame him for calling you Illiterate?
I’m not saying you’re not able to read, but it sure looks like you weren’t trying to

I don’t take the time to thoroughly read what someone else is saying but I expect not to get talked down on, stupid elitists!

“Illiterate white knight”

“you missed a paragraph I wrote <insert quote here>”

Both would have sufficed to inform her that she was mistaken. Maybe we aren’t full of elitist jerks but just people that have no tact at all? It certainly can get hard to understand someone’s actual meaning through an onslaught of sarcasm, hyperbole and extreme language.

I actually got shocked at that insult. Or maybe it’s because I wasn’t taught to speak that way in my culture so … shake my head.

/supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

I think mature discussions just comes with age. Most of the people here are still in college. Old ppl like me think its funny with some of the stuff that people write here. Kinda like them little boys playing them cod and talking about how they made sweet sweet love to the other guys mom. HILARIOUS.

The whole problem with defending an entire community is that the community isn’t wholly united in everything. Just one thing. Which is evident enough from this thread and the locked ones that even though we all enjoy doing dungeons, watching record runs and improving ourselves we will not agree on every topic.

We had a thread closed on this already. Let’s not let this one follow that track and be derailed. Instead lets try to focus on the purpose this thread was created for to start with.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

snip

I’ve been quietly reading and watching, slowly catching up with the forums. Lux dominators I believe I may of missed your post of your channel? Can you please link it again for us/me?

Iris Ng.9845:

Wow, dlonie, you are so brave! Hats off to you, but again please let the matter rest.

@theoutsider:

Let me give you an example of “throwing oneself under the bus”

Excuse me if I miss anything from your twitch. Which facts are you talking about?

are you just another illiterate white knight?

It is true that I missed the paragraph of you expressing how badly your group performed yet still matched the time proposed by Skady’s trio. But hey, 30 minutes or less isn’t the entire point of her setup. It’s also about being smooth without wipe, enjoyable over friendly bantering on TeamSpeak and above all, being comfortable with any players she plays with. Alright, that was actually what I planned to reply to your post. I would have said some more meaningful things. But then the word “illiterate whiteknight” puts me off. So, in order to let your point come across, it’s necessary for you, as an individual, to talk down to someone else, as courteous as I can with some nasty words like that?

Keep your elitism close.

Hiya friendo!
Let’s talk business here, since you were so put off by being asked whether you were just another illiterate white knight.
The definition of illiterate was already given in this thread. Here’s the urban definition of white knight!
“In forum parlance, it means rushing to the aid of another poster for whatever reason. An accusation typically reserved for when a poster is being hammered by another poster(s) and the accused leaps in to defend them, usually without thinking things through as to why the person is being attacked.”
Let’s take this into perspective.
I took the effort to skim through my VoDs because as we had formerly discerned, Skady’s way of replying could have been seen as a passive aggressive way to taunt people. For me, it was. So I post my stuff, average kills which shape down a minute. I also list a ton of reasons as to why our runs slow down to 30 minutes, and end on a statement on which probably most people can agree on: An optimized team, with optimized strats (For example, having someone on an SSD load in Thief or Engineer/Having Engineer from the start to skip almost the entirety of the Ascalonian, Harpy and Dredge Cage!) can easily take down those 10 minutes Skady was so in disbelief of anyone aside from the ++elite++ of this game doing.
My point was to make her aware that trioing fractals, even on Berserker, is not that hard, and perhaps we all need to brighten up and accept that it is not the ultimate challenge in this game.
What happened then was her clicking an entirety of two VoDs (after technically asking to compare VoDs), writing something inaccurate about my instant death video on the Aetherblade Retreat encounter, and then.. blatantly ignoring everything else I wrote in order to generalize the idea that Zerk Trios take just as long as Clerics trios. (Again, the gear and the PHIW is not the issue here, it’s the attitude.)

I call her out on it and you come to her defense immediately, not answering to my ignored post or responding any reasoning why my post was blatantly ignored. Is this not the definition of white knighting?
It was also more a question than an insult, since I hoped you’d redeem yourself from a stupid post in order to defend someone who should have defended herself.

Thanks

Perhaps the problematic part is “attacking other people”.

Lots of people don’t have a thick skin. They aren’t looking forward to “getting attacked”, no matter how justified it is. They won’t bother staying to defend themselves. They just leave and we are left with a small community which doesn’t get dungeon updates for 2 years.

Wethospu.6437:

Perhaps the problematic part is “attacking other people”.

When I created my character, I was given the personality option of “ferocity” by the gods and devs above, so in my quest to “play how I want” I find it in my best interest to threaten violence since it gets me further than anything else.

/rp

Card.9704:

Wethospu.6437:

Perhaps the problematic part is “attacking other people”.

When I created my character, I was given the personality option of “ferocity” by the gods and devs above, so in my quest to “play how I want” I find it in my best interest to threaten violence since it gets me further than anything else.

/rp

Do you wear Magi gear on an Elementalist, because he’s a Magician, Zealots gear with Guardian Runes on your Guardian or Soldier’s gear with Runes of the Soldier on your Warrior?!
If not, you haven’t even touched the depths of RP yet, young Card

Berserkers who are also Scholars? How does that even make sense

My warrior runs knights gear because queen’ jenna knighted him after saving ascalon from the searing.

And technically mesmers are magicians and elementalists are wizards.

Those are fighting words, time to put that ferocious character back to work

To quote wikipedia, lord and saviour of knowledge
“The paranormal kind of magician (unlike the stage illusionist) can also be referred to as an enchanter, wizard, mage, magus or thaumaturgist. These overlapping terms may be distinguished by some traditions or some writers. When such distinctions are made, sorcerers are more often practitioners of evocations or black magic,[citation needed] and there may be variations on level and type of power associated with each name.”

wikipedia rpfight go!

theoutsider.7849:

I call her out on it and you come to her defense immediately, not answering to my ignored post or responding any reasoning why my post was blatantly ignored. Is this not the definition of white knighting?

No, in my opinion, it is the definition of an author failing to reach its audience. See, you (and bladex, for that matter) keep complaining about how your posts get ignored or at least don’t get the rightful attention you think they deserve, implying the readers are white-knighting, being illiterates and so on.

However, I believe it is your responsibility as an author to present your post in a suitable manner for its intended audience. Your average reader is not going to fish for your perceived gems in a post that lacks structure and is filled with hostile remarks. The post I believe you’re referring to suffers from these issues (if you want me to elaborate in more detail, feel free to PM).

just when I thought this couldn’t get any better lmao
Author failing to reach its audience? Structure? Average post reader not finishing?
The post was aimed at Skady, she read the full thing. As is evident by her quoting the 30min remark, which is written among the rest of the information, and only the 30min remark, deliberately skipping over the rest.

it wasn’t Iris Ng who I called for a response there, neither was it their responsibility, yet they posted anyways without reading the full picture, in order to defend someone who should have defended herself. -> white knighting

here’s some real talk, to bring things back into perspective of the grand scope this thread touches.
I’m part of the problem, I’m hostile towards certain attitudes. Its why I don’t usually post, except its the 4th repost of a thread. I even apologize for my rageyness.
I have no problem admitting that I am part of the problem. But so are you. (spoken as a generalization)
I look for fights. You look for fights with people that look for fights. Fightception. It’s like that in every forum, and its likely to never stop.
One thing you should realize is that no one/not many have been trolling Skady for her choice in gear. She can PHIW whatever she wants, what edged some people off is a mixture of repost, the flair that this is all done for attention and the facetious behaviour I guess not everyone can see, so maybe thats not a point. Still two valid points before it.
Not really sure if this needs any more explanation.

Jerus.4350:

I’ll be happy to pass along your channel….snippedysnipsnip

Just another proof that Whisk(e)y is a reliable source of wisdom and insight.
No kidding, this is one of the very best walls of text I’ve ever read on this forum, simply because it’s so true in every way.
Kudos to you good Sir.

Now where’s that kittening bottle of 16 yo’ Lagavulin again…

I fail to see how this doesn’t exemplify dlonie’s initial remarks. I’ll leave it at that. The idea of defending what this community has become doesn’t really inspire me. What this community was, was amazing. But most of those people have long since left or stopped posting.

I see Skady’s comments and posts as a pillar of something we should embrace as an option for the less than perfect. Perfection, yes we all know zerk is the best, but you see those posts about support builds being crap daily, hers is a post showing proof of the contrary which we all know to be true. Take a true support build and you can make for an easy run. Instead of taking it at face value, that it’s less optimal but efficient given the perimeters of imperfect play, we instead see people demonizing the post and person.

Maybe it’s person bias, but I’d love to see more discussion on helping new players and groups get into this content. “here is a way to make it easy” “here is a way that’s not optimal, but will make it possible to have a smooth consistent easy run”. Instead we berate that type of play.

I find it completely illogical when I see claims of taking offense to quotes of “it takes an elite group of Sesshi level players to run zerk more efficiently” in a negative way. That’s literally a compliment if you can run full zerk more efficiently. There’s no reason to combat such a statement, “well my group can do it” deserves nothing but a /bow in acknowledgement of your success as a player. There’s nothing negative there.

Discussing these less optimal ways of play is the first step towards expanding this community and dispelling this idea that we’re all a bunch of elitist jerks. It’s proof of a pretty commonly shared opinion that defensive builds have plenty of power and don’t need adjusting. You don’t need to go to the extreme of a full nomads group to tap that power, you just need a well made and played actual support build to empower the entire group with a safety net.

I think it’s a bit of a slippery slope in that I don’t want a bunch of poorly played clerics geared players plagueing my groups, but maybe, just maybe, if it’s discussed the people who feel the need to play these builds will do it intelligently and realize that more than one is a bit overkill., and that it isn’t just equipping the gear and defending yourself but it’s more about defending your team, which you have the power to do.

Maybe Skady didn’t come off as the most tactful person (she is not a native English speaker as far as I can tell), But the point itself remains. I don’t see why we can’t all agree that while not optimal it is pretty darn nice for less than perfect play. But thats a key phrase there, there’s a difference between calling it bad and less than perfect. I know I like that safety net for when I screw up, but I wouldn’t consider myself bad as much as just not great. I can hang in a zerk group, I’ll see many (including members of this community) eat a death before I do. I’ve done fast 3man fractals, but I’ve also had bad nights to the point that I can’t freakin make the jumps on harpy. But then I’ve also done the runs solo. What she brings is consistency that I enjoy.

Why do we take alternative play styles as an offense? Again, there is that slippery slop as we don’t want to see those builds become so common as to plague PUG runs, but there’s power in them, why can we not agree to that?

Bladex and Outsider, this isn’t an attack on you, in fact the opposite. if you both are capable of consistent quick runs or fractal 50’s while in zerker gear, well, you are elite players, beyond what most area capable, my question is why are you taking offense? if it’s the tone of a non native English speaker, can’t you overlook that and try to look at the deeper meningeal? That it’s a solid option for those incapable of such level of play, or at least those who don’t want that stress?

Either way, drunken rant over, the red squiggly lines surely helped

Nash.2681:

Jerus.4350:

I’ll be happy to pass along your channel….snippedysnipsnip

Just another proof that Whisk(e)y is a reliable source of wisdom and insight.
No kidding, this is one of the very best walls of text I’ve ever read on this forum, simply because it’s so true in every way.
Kudos to you good Sir.

Now where’s that kittening bottle of 16 yo’ Lagavulin again…

Bring me that bottle! I drink cheap costco Kirkland Canadian Whiskey (tastes better than Crown Royal), but, then again, I have a tolerance that’s unhealthy and expensive

You’re still hung up on the gear issue when it’s been repeatedly stated its not about the gear. There is literally no point in replying to this any further

Looking back at my previous posts I might have been a bit harsh.

Like I mentioned before I personally don’t have any problem with support builds.
I wouldn’t kick anyone from my group if he’s using a support build, unless I specifically asked for players to run a specific kind of build.
In fact, I would just embrace it and enjoy the safety net it provides.

I just somehow got triggered by the fact that she had to make 3 threads about it in a short time, just to prove her point, while I felt this was unneeded and un-asked for.
A while back I posted something here, and my friend posted something regarding the same topic in another subforum.
It got massively reported and I got an infraction for double posting.
Yet Skady makes a post pretty much the same to her first one, a day after the first one is reported and moved, and no action is taken and people even appreciate her for her effort.

At this point I got a bit salty and responded to the thread, questioning the need for it, and I claimed she was just doing it for attention.
Again, I had no harmful meaning before this, the only thing I posted on the first thread was a video of one of my lupi kills with a clerics guard, to jokingly show how support classes generalize content and make even the hardest of bosses faceroll.

I don’t know exactly what her intentions were, only she knows that, and it was wrong of me to assume something while not being sure if it was actually true.
It might have something to do with English not being her (and mine) first language, as well as cultural differences

I guess i’ll apologize if I’ve hurt anyone’s feelings in my (partially drunk) rant.
And I also want to apologize to Skady for possibly misinterpretating her good intentions and talking down on her for it

This one time while leisurely strolling through Queen’s Dale, I came upon a downed young Wizard. I offered my hand in assistance but he promptly became a shroud of vapor particles. Knowing only vampires could preform such acts of devilry I brought my great sword down upon his face repeatedly when he once again regained human form.