Guild Wars 2

Hi
After the nerfs i want to know which are the best classes now to do fractals/raids.
Is the ele worth it or is better the thief?
And the other classes are near to both in DPS?

Ele’s have been nerfed but are still way up at the top. Most of the people complaining about it are drastically overreacting as the actual damage reduction was not very much and the CD rate is now in line with literally every other class. I main an ele and will continue to do so, but these nerfs have been needed for a long time.

I don’t play thief so I can’t speak to it.

Best advice? Play what you like rather than whatever metabattle tells you is theoretically best

General consensus for pure dps role seems to be:
IF
boss is large hit box
THEN
Staff Ele
ELSE IF
You can stand behind boss the entire fight
THEN
D/D Thief
ELSE
Staff Daredevil
END

But ele still isn’t terrible for normal size bosses. It’s just not as good as thief.

Performance wise, ele is still a solid choice, but from what I’ve heard from ele friends, the new rotation is really clunky and not nearly as enjoyable to play as what it was before.

From the best benchmark DPS videos I’ve seen on YouTube, the new ele rotation seems to be pretty bizarre, but that may just be my impression as a non-ele raider.

Dahkeus.8243:

General consensus for pure dps role seems to be:
IF
boss is large hit box
THEN
Staff Ele
ELSE IF
You can stand behind boss the entire fight
THEN
D/D Thief
ELSE
Staff Daredevil
END

But ele still isn’t terrible for normal size bosses. It’s just not as good as thief.

Performance wise, ele is still a solid choice, but from what I’ve heard from ele friends, the new rotation is really clunky and not nearly as enjoyable to play as what it was before.

From the best benchmark DPS videos I’ve seen on YouTube, the new ele rotation seems to be pretty bizarre, but that may just be my impression as a non-ele raider.

How does new staff Thief compare to Power Engi though? IIRC they were pretty close before the staff nerf.

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

General consensus for pure dps role seems to be:
IF
boss is large hit box
THEN
Staff Ele
ELSE IF
You can stand behind boss the entire fight
THEN
D/D Thief
ELSE
Staff Daredevil
END

But ele still isn’t terrible for normal size bosses. It’s just not as good as thief.

Performance wise, ele is still a solid choice, but from what I’ve heard from ele friends, the new rotation is really clunky and not nearly as enjoyable to play as what it was before.

From the best benchmark DPS videos I’ve seen on YouTube, the new ele rotation seems to be pretty bizarre, but that may just be my impression as a non-ele raider.

How does new staff Thief compare to Power Engi though? IIRC they were pretty close before the staff nerf.

Have a link to a benchmark of a power engi build doing something like that? I’m actually not very familiar with a power engi build doing anything like that.

However, it’s pretty safe to say that you can just take almost 5% DPS off whatever staff numbers you got in the last patch since the vast majority of damage comes from the autoattack that was reduced by 5%.

Doing some quick napkin math, that means I’d estimate the following:
Staff DPS with unrealistic buffs = 35
35 * .95 = 33.25 DPS
Staff DPS with normal boons = 29.2
29.2 * .95 = 27.74

So if you can break those with a power engi build, then theoretically, it would be better, but you’ll also want to consider realistic scenario limitations that could keep thief as higher DPS:

• If engi build requires boss to be stationary for full DPS
• If engi build is slower to back away from and return to melee range

Considering that staff thief loses no DPS to mobile fights due to AA rotation and can leap in and out near instantly with vault, it would be hard to beat with all else equal.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

General consensus for pure dps role seems to be:
IF
boss is large hit box
THEN
Staff Ele
ELSE IF
You can stand behind boss the entire fight
THEN
D/D Thief
ELSE
Staff Daredevil
END

But ele still isn’t terrible for normal size bosses. It’s just not as good as thief.

Performance wise, ele is still a solid choice, but from what I’ve heard from ele friends, the new rotation is really clunky and not nearly as enjoyable to play as what it was before.

From the best benchmark DPS videos I’ve seen on YouTube, the new ele rotation seems to be pretty bizarre, but that may just be my impression as a non-ele raider.

How does new staff Thief compare to Power Engi though? IIRC they were pretty close before the staff nerf.

Have a link to a benchmark of a power engi build doing something like that? I’m actually not very familiar with a power engi build doing anything like that.

However, it’s pretty safe to say that you can just take almost 5% DPS off whatever staff numbers you got in the last patch since the vast majority of damage comes from the autoattack that was reduced by 5%.

Doing some quick napkin math, that means I’d estimate the following:
Staff DPS with unrealistic buffs = 35
35 * .95 = 33.25 DPS
Staff DPS with normal boons = 29.2
29.2 * .95 = 27.74

So if you can break those with a power engi build, then theoretically, it would be better, but you’ll also want to consider realistic scenario limitations that could keep thief as higher DPS:

• If engi build requires boss to be stationary for full DPS
• If engi build is slower to back away from and return to melee range

Considering that staff thief loses no DPS to mobile fights due to AA rotation and can leap in and out near instantly with vault, it would be hard to beat with all else equal.

Only one I could find, but yeah, and it’s a simple build :s

You are right on the engage/disengage thing with the mechanics in raids and mobility. I will say that on the training area mobile golem you can chase it and still hit it just fine with bombs if you stay up close to it.

i did a benchmark on my power engi the other night, well i got the trait that give more dps on condi target and i put all condi on golem. But wihtou all condi and only those use in fight, i can do 30k average more or less. This is for static boss:

https://youtu.be/zNGuT1fElcg

For moving fight i recommand to play scrapper hammer, basically you use 2 of hammer then grenade and bomb.

Masta.4510:

i did a benchmark on my power engi the other night, well i got the trait that give more dps on condi target and i put all condi on golem. But wihtou all condi and only those use in fight, i can do 30k average more or less. This is for static boss:

https://youtu.be/zNGuT1fElcg

For moving fight i recommand to play scrapper hammer, basically you use 2 of hammer then grenade and bomb.

Thanks, yeah I keep forgetting about the condi thing making it artificially high. Still very viable.

are nades better than Ram? Toolbelt skills look roughly equal with about twice the damage on Barrage, but at twice the cast time and reuse, factoring in an extra static discharge, just seems ram is better unless you need extra cleave damage? Or are you thinking Shrapnel procs?

Yeah we just did one sloth with me on scrapper sooner, its fine + you got reflect for it

I just got 35K (unrealistic buffs) with ram. The rotation is fairly simple (and I am starting to think that is not even worth to use the rifle, damage wise: just stick to bombs aa and toolbelt on cd).
Now the sabetha seems easier with thiefs… maybe we can gain a spot besides VG XD

Yeah especially jump shot when you have quickness, I’m curious if it’s worth it

Played around with power engi in the raid testing zone using realistic buffs. It’s still clearly behind thief in DPS.

Yes, we have been playing around aswell. Engi is behind, but not so much. Still with the new venom share thing, thief is the clear winner.

Dahkeus.8243:

Played around with power engi in the raid testing zone using realistic buffs. It’s still clearly behind thief in DPS.

Curious what you got as results. “Clearly behind” makes me think it’s a lot but from what I’ve seen, while it may be behind it’s just by a little bit.

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

Played around with power engi in the raid testing zone using realistic buffs. It’s still clearly behind thief in DPS.

Curious what you got as results. “Clearly behind” makes me think it’s a lot but from what I’ve seen, while it may be behind it’s just by a little bit.

I definitely didn’t practice the rotation enough to min/max everything, but I was hitting 24k. For conditions, I didn’t include immobilize and fear, but added everything else, which may not actually happen, depending on comp. I’m sure this could be beat by someone who’s more efficient at nailing the rotation, but I don’t see it surpassing the benchmarks from thief.

For reference, here’s some recent vids with good benchmarks for staff and D/D thief using all buffs and realistic buffs:
Staff – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXSKqzeR1E4
D/D – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WRkbPr8z6o

If someone can post a vid of power engi hitting ~29k DPS or better with realistic buffs, I’ll reconsider, but especially considering the simplicity of staff DPS, it’s hard to imagine many scenarios where an engi actually outperforms a staff DD in an actual raid fight.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

Played around with power engi in the raid testing zone using realistic buffs. It’s still clearly behind thief in DPS.

Curious what you got as results. “Clearly behind” makes me think it’s a lot but from what I’ve seen, while it may be behind it’s just by a little bit.

I definitely didn’t practice the rotation enough to min/max everything, but I was hitting 24k. For conditions, I didn’t include immobilize and fear, but added everything else, which may not actually happen, depending on comp. I’m sure this could be beat by someone who’s more efficient at nailing the rotation, but I don’t see it surpassing the benchmarks from thief.

For reference, here’s some recent vids with good benchmarks for staff and D/D thief using all buffs and realistic buffs:
Staff – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXSKqzeR1E4
D/D – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WRkbPr8z6o

If someone can post a vid of power engi hitting ~29k DPS or better with realistic buffs, I’ll reconsider, but especially considering the simplicity of staff DPS, it’s hard to imagine many scenarios where an engi actually outperforms a staff DD in an actual raid fight.

Considering the only real thing to watch out for in the build is not using your toolbelt skills in the middle of a bomb placment, I don’t think you’ll get that much higher. Though I’ll try and test again tonight/tomorrow. IIRC I was getting high ~26-27ks with “realistic” buffs but I wasn’t paying attention to conditions, just tossed them all on.

But, Thief is doing better than I thought, I thought thief was 29k with staff before and taking the nerf would drop but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

Played around with power engi in the raid testing zone using realistic buffs. It’s still clearly behind thief in DPS.

Curious what you got as results. “Clearly behind” makes me think it’s a lot but from what I’ve seen, while it may be behind it’s just by a little bit.

I definitely didn’t practice the rotation enough to min/max everything, but I was hitting 24k. For conditions, I didn’t include immobilize and fear, but added everything else, which may not actually happen, depending on comp. I’m sure this could be beat by someone who’s more efficient at nailing the rotation, but I don’t see it surpassing the benchmarks from thief.

For reference, here’s some recent vids with good benchmarks for staff and D/D thief using all buffs and realistic buffs:
Staff – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXSKqzeR1E4
D/D – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WRkbPr8z6o

If someone can post a vid of power engi hitting ~29k DPS or better with realistic buffs, I’ll reconsider, but especially considering the simplicity of staff DPS, it’s hard to imagine many scenarios where an engi actually outperforms a staff DD in an actual raid fight.

Considering the only real thing to watch out for in the build is not using your toolbelt skills in the middle of a bomb placment, I don’t think you’ll get that much higher. Though I’ll try and test again tonight/tomorrow. IIRC I was getting high ~26-27ks with “realistic” buffs but I wasn’t paying attention to conditions, just tossed them all on.

But, Thief is doing better than I thought, I thought thief was 29k with staff before and taking the nerf would drop but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

qT posted benchmarks on reddit, but there’s still testing going on for power engi.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

From the comments section, I did see a couple people mentioning that they reached 28k with realistic buffs. Seems to confirm that engi is competitive, even if not outright better than thief.