Guild Wars 2

A huge issue here. I’ve already crafted 4 ascended trailblazer armors and a staff. All mats for the rest are set already, only waiting for enough globs of dark matter. But someone experienced told me that the high toughness from trailblazer’s could ruin the team’s strategy (aggro issue). I’d like to hear more opinions about this…………..is it necessary to change the rest set to viper’s or sinister’s?
Playing condi nec, wanna be tanky (>_<)——to survive all the hugs (yay~~~~)

Straight up, Not worthy at all.

Will add since you seem to have never raided, A PUG again straight up will literally never take you.

also for the staff part, a condi necro pretty much uses scepter/dagger, and I believe warhorn for cc

Unfortunately he’s right. Unless you want to be the tank, toughness messes up aggro in some (not all) of the encounters. Vitality is the better survival stat, especially since it increases your life force pool too.

And I agree with Leezy regarding the staff, it’s more a utility weapon.

Toughness only makes a difference for the first two raid bosses. You could most certainly go as the tank (and only as the tank) for those while using trailblazer’s gear (though be warned that for the first boss, the tank has the hardest job). As for the rest of the bosses, I don’t play necro, so I don’t know how much of a condi necro’s damage is power, but trailblazer’s has the exact same condition damage and duration as viper’s, so having trailblazer’s armor (and viper weapon/trinkets) could be completely fine.

If you go purely scepter, the direct damage is so low that power isn’t that important. But viper’s is more useful depending on the build and how you use shroud.

OP, if you find trailblazer’s not suitable, you can always change the stats with the mystic forge.

Most groups will only take you if you run full viper gear or a mix of viper/sinister which is about as offensive.
The addition of a few toughness pieces will only be needed whenever you are tanking one of the bosses with the aggro feature.

To be frank – you will have trouble finding a raid group unless they don’t know that you run Trailblazer. Everyone is expected to maximize their damage output. Necromancers are also one of the more tanky classes even without all of that toughness and vitality.

Broadly speaking taking defensive stats unless you are the tank, or healing power as a healer, is not a good strategy. For that alone I would say Trailblazer’s has a really hard time being a good option.

If you’re playing condi necro you’ll want either sinister or a vipers set of armor → vipers is the meta atm. If you are in anything else odds are really good a pug group will never pick you up. Toughness is only good if you are tanking.

Weapons are generally scepter/dagger + scepter/warhorn… staff is more utility. Again all depends on what you want to run.

and this is why as a person more into wvw and solo roaming – i’ll never do raids ….the builds are so meta – and it’s a catch 22, to get the vipers ascended trinkets you have to raid, to raid you need vipers ascended or no one will play with you. WHAT?!!!

Now I have nothing against raids and how people want to play them, but I am very upset with how vipers stats are kept away from wvw because of this pve – elite build fiasco.

many little things like this in the rules in gw2 that make gw2 not very fun at all, the game itself is fun, the logistics are actually quite bullying and stressful. if you want to play your best build in wvw, you will have build a vipers gear set that will let you farm for vipers gear.

completely illogical and very punishing and does nothing than to force people out of their preferred play mode.

Ricky.4706:

and this is why as a person more into wvw and solo roaming – i’ll never do raids ….the builds are so meta – and it’s a catch 22, to get the vipers ascended trinkets you have to raid, to raid you need vipers ascended or no one will play with you. WHAT?!!!

Now I have nothing against raids and how people want to play them, but I am very upset with how vipers stats are kept away from wvw because of this pve – elite build fiasco.

many little things like this in the rules in gw2 that make gw2 not very fun at all, the game itself is fun, the logistics are actually quite bullying and stressful. if you want to play your best build in wvw, you will have build a vipers gear set that will let you farm for vipers gear.

completely illogical and very punishing and does nothing than to force people out of their preferred play mode.

You do not need ascended vipers to play a condi necro in raids. I would expect a condi necro to have vipers armor and weapons. But sinister trinkets are acceptable. I have sinister trinkets on mine. I think the dps difference is about 2%, because of the condi duration cap.

Edit: I agree that viper trinkets should be more assessible though.

i rather that I don’t have to raid to have vipers ascended trinkets in wvw. That’s the bigger issue. It’s a pvp stat thats being obnoxiously gated behind pve.

Ricky.4706:

i rather that I don’t have to raid to have vipers ascended trinkets in wvw. That’s the bigger issue. It’s a pvp stat thats being obnoxiously gated behind pve.

Isn’t trailblazer’s a better WvW stat? It’s been a while since I WvWed (but I PvP a lot), and I always thought defensive stats were more important there.

not for me, it depends on the individual actually……

front line guys would probably want more high dps and vitality

back line guys – 1200 feet cast range, pretty much give up defense and vitality for the sake of strong offense…. there is really no such 1 build fits all, each role in a team type environment has different needs.

and you can’t exactly compare gw2’s spvp to wvw, because everything in wvw pretty much melts when you have 5 or more people targeting it with high dps builds.

the vipers stats are prime for high burst dps pvp builds.

and if gvg ever came into play, some players may need high healing stats for support roles etc

in a sense the evolution of strategy in wvw is being arrested by all this gating because trying different kinds of builds to play a variety of roles in wvw / team play is simply not affordable in game – unless you want to quit playing wvw just to get the right ascended armor to get the right ascended trinkets with the right team in raids. This kind of gating is hurting the game in many ways.

gate skins, pets, minis – even minis are more appropriate because others in town can actually see if you did high score in raids…..that doesn’t affect pvp environments. – i was finding wvw crates in ley line convertors ….in dragon stand, seriously ? it’s as if anet want’s people to play everything they don’t want, either that or they want a scatterbrain audience lol

In a pure condi build like Scepter necro, the difference between trailblazers and vipers is going to be less than 5%. The only thing that will be less is the incredibly minimal direct damage and losing some on-crit procs since youre crit chance will be marginally lower. That said, I don’t expect any random pugs to understand what actual DPS differences are between the two and for them to be tolerant to “non-meta” gear.

5% is everything in a downed state to a pvpr.

there should be no “Meta” gear, Meta gear only invites automaton gaming, no mindless gaming for me thanks.

Ricky.4706:

5% is everything in a downed state to a pvpr.

there should be no “Meta” gear, Meta gear only invites automaton gaming, no mindless gaming for me thanks.

Meta just means the optimum gear for the encounter.

In pve, 5% suboptimal gear is unlikely to have an effect on the encounter. Experience is much more important. That said, pug groups may require the meta gear because they know nothing about your experience.

I’m not sure how pvp applies to this conversation. You simultaneously state that the 5% damage makes a huge difference and then rail against the meta gear that brings the damage boost.

You don’t need to be a special snowflake in gear or build. The mechanics of the encounter can be far from mindless.

By the way, there is a pvp meta too.

in pve – you do not have a thinking opponent.

in pvp – meta gear is opposite rock paper scissors.
Your gear should not be the winner, your skills should be.

and finally yassith’s, juju, wanderers, vipers AND ALL of the new PVP / Hot related stars… are all deeply embedded in pve – but they are IN FACT critical stats to pvp. whether a player knows how to use them to his advantage or not is another discussion.

we don’t want to raid, nor have to play and think like a raider to get stats that are relevant to our play style.

Ricky.4706:

in pve – you do not have a thinking opponent.

in pvp – meta gear is opposite rock paper scissors.
Your gear should not be the winner, your skills should be.

and finally yassith’s, juju, wanderers, vipers AND ALL of the new PVP / Hot related stars… are all deeply embedded in pve – but they are IN FACT critical stats to pvp. whether a player knows how to use them to his advantage or not is another discussion.

we don’t want to raid, nor have to play and think like a raider to get stats that are relevant to our play style.

I’m still not sure how your posts are relevant to the OP. The OP is about raids.

In pvp, you have access to all the stat combinations. If you are talking about wvw, then yes, you can’t achieve all stat combinations in wvw. You generally don’t need to raid to get them either. You can stat change at the mystic forge.

go back a few posts to my first response.

As a matter of fact, I’ve already MFed my full set of trailblazer gear into viper’s today, due to the LFR pressure. I just started raids and had only “google experiences” in theory, no chance to practice at all because no PUGs would let me do so. The reality is unfriendly, and I initially gotta give up the preferred play style, which is kind of frustrating.( the gold spent on Maguuma lily also got flashed down the toilet, 6-7g per)
Also, I think the game is not so friendly to condi builds, for the ascended sinister trinkets gotta come from the mastery completion of the living world 2, which could be a lot of effort for people like me. Compared to the power builds, which can get their trinkets directly from laurels, I feel a little bit unfair.
So, in short, not so happy for the changes I gotta make solely because of the environmental pressure. Every tank has their first time raiding and shouldn’t be underestimated only because they have no practical experience. I understand PUGs aspire speed runs, so I can’t fully blame on them as well. I just hope that Anet could come up with a solution to fix the accessibility issue. When the next expansion comes out, I don’t hope that I’ll have to change again just because I’m NEW to the combat. Nothing should be forced in any means on playing a game.
(PS: I personally spent 50 bucks on the set to satisfy the full asc requirements of most PUGs)

And even now I have the toughness issue because I’m running rabid trinkets. Some folks told me that rampager is better than rabid. I don’t know exatcly how the condi+Power damage is calculated (too lazy to do the math), but again, my toughness is not so high now so the tank should be able to easily surpass me. I could still fulfill a tank job as well with some boosts from the “flesh of master” trait. But sadly, NO CHANCE AT ALL. PUGS ARE LOOKING FOR EXPERIENCED>

I personally posted another post in HOT discussion, advising Anet to either improve the raid communication tool, or offer free runs(or TRAININGS) with their staff. I don’t have THAT MUCH TIME to wait on LFG, hoping some PUG squad would pick me up on the right boss. This is VERY TIRING and TIME-CONSUMING. (and get you annoyed for free)

And no offense to others. I do understand that raids are about squeezing every last bit of DPS from everyone, so a tank should have less than 1600 toughness as well (according to data from a friend) and putting other stats into offensive traits. I’m just not satisfied with the current environment and the fact that I gotta make sacrifices on FUN to gain “EXPERIENCE” and “ACCEPTANCE” on the end-game content.

So basically, I’m not angered. Just upset.

In addition, I can’t solo many events anymore. I can’t get the joy that everyone is down in front of the gerent only except me anymore. I can’t enjoy to jump off a cliff and stay alive anymore. I can’t be the one who’s always charging anymore and face the boss ahead anymore. Condi is not like power. It offers a relatively stable and high damage though a period instead of the “bursting damage” of power. So the tactic should be leaning more to keeping the conditions going and finish off enemies smoothly rather than kill every mob in an instance. For that, I don’t consider Viper’s as a good design for pure condi builds. Just don;t understand what kind of strategy that stands for. A hybrid? that could be still make sense. You keep the efficiency on power and also have remarkable condition damages going on, but that’s just a bit weired. If you wanna smash enemies like butter, why don’t you just go with a pure power build? Could be much faster. For that, I do think trailblazer is a good design. It emphasizes the whole point of condition—-stable damage in period and ensures survivability so that you could constantly apply more conditions. So…….I don’t know what Anet thinks, but i do think the design is a bit flawed. If everyone’s seeking a speed kill, then why bother having condition builds?
(PS: the whole theory is based on the assumption that there’s no significant difference in condi and power damage in total. If there is, then….just take the part that you think make sense )

Well, a few grammar mistakes when typing. NVM. And maybe after I finish learning how to tank (have no idea when that will happen) , I’ll consider switch back to trailblazer’s again. Just enjoy the playstyle——-surviving all the hugs as a condi (YAY~~~)

As the ending for myself (not necessarily you guys), I would appreciate if someone has a recommended guild for raids (or at least tell me how or where to find one). Even trainings are appreciated. And if you see someone like me who’s struggling, give a helping hand

Decaying Seart.6793:

I personally posted another post in HOT discussion, advising Anet to either improve the raid communication tool, or offer free runs(or TRAININGS) with their staff. I don’t have THAT MUCH TIME to wait on LFG, hoping some PUG squad would pick me up on the right boss. This is VERY TIRING and TIME-CONSUMING. (and get you annoyed for free)

I’ll quote this one even though it was interesting to see your progression in this forum.

How do you think people learned raids when they first came out? They tried it. After some beat it, they posted videos. Now you can watch a video.

Pugs are generally not in it to teach people. They want to clear the content as quickly as possible. So they are unlikely to take a suboptimal build and someone with no experience.

You don’t need to wait on others to pick you up. The easiest method is to join a guild. Check reddit or these forums. Barring that, you could make a post: “LFM VG learning run.” Or find a friend to take you along.

The solution to your problem is at your fingertips. Be your own solution.

Yeah. I’ve been doing that on Reddit, just haven’t found a great option yet.( because just started for 2 days) And I wasn’t sure if something like “LFM VG learning run” was an acceptable post on forums. Just learned to use the forum for not long.

I can’t see anything wrong with that as a forum post.

You probably should make it clear that they will have to commit several hours and bring thier own foods and buffs. No point making your group only to have a couple quit after several wipes.

Decaying Seart.6793:

And even now I have the toughness issue because I’m running rabid trinkets. Some folks told me that rampager is better than rabid. I don’t know exatcly how the condi+Power damage is calculated (too lazy to do the math), but again, my toughness is not so high now so the tank should be able to easily surpass me. I could still fulfill a tank job as well with some boosts from the “flesh of master” trait. But sadly, NO CHANCE AT ALL. PUGS ARE LOOKING FOR EXPERIENCED>

Well, depending on the class that was tanking in raids you joined, that tank could be a full viper necro with flesh of master for tanking, so ofc your rabid trinkets would mess up the agro. Rampager is an easy-to-get option to sinister when starting raids as they don’t interfere with agro.

1) i want to beat and thus get highest level loot fromhardest bosses ingame
2) i do not want to switch from my safe and comfty braindead gear
3) i do not or at least till now, have not spent 2hours as long as it takes to watch 2x woodenpotatoes guide videos and read a mettabttle guide to learn the boss
4) i want 9 others to teach me ingame, pressumably taking more than above time
5) i am ok with 9 others wasting 4hours trying and not getting anything if i am a “too weak link in the chain”

6) the lfg options for raids are indeed horrible as they were not designed. Hopefuly in future we get a surprise lobby for raids

Now this is not to make fun or mock you, but to show you that why others are also frustrated and want to avoid such players.
The difficulty bar of raids is also meant and good to stay hard, so really only thing you can do is train/improve yourself with guide videos and training groups untill your dps, healing or tanking role is worth joining a group as a normaly experienced member

P.s.
As for trailblazer gear, it is meta popular between wvw solo condi roamers.
You can also always use it on your own when in pve.
On world bosses youre still hiding behind the actual dmg dealers and you wont solo the 50man gerent just cz you were able to live an extra hit…thegroup failed because they didnt avoid the big hits not because everyone wasnt trailblazer or dire
Theres a gear and place for everything, toughness is mostly used in wvw and pvp, not in raids, sry