Unleashed
1. People would complain it encourages DPS heavy builds, which leads to nerf (i.e. Simian)
2. Class Favoritism – GLF2M THIEFS ONLY TO HELP SKIP. If the mobs dont see you, they cant leash can they?
It doesnt encourage anything. The only instance where DPS heavy would be required would be people looking for speed runs, and who cares lol 60% of the population runs Zerker anyway. and Number 2 can be countered by giving mobs/bosses detect Invis that Anet really wants us to fight through
Unleashing mobs wouldn’t change the skill level of anything. Dungeon mobs don’t require skill to kill. Ever. They’re just brain-dead, hp-sponge meat-puppets that you hit with a stick for 3 minutes until it’s dead. No skill involved. Unleashing mobs would simply make all dungeons atrociously grindy and more needlessly tedious than they already are.
Truth be told, skipping requires more skill than fighting these types of enemies since in order to skip them, one must know the proper paths to take and also when to dodge or which skills to use when if things get hairy (which they often don’t because combat with these enemies is pretty dull).
Ya and bosses arent? Skipping requires no skill as you either simply walk by or use a glitch/exploit. Not all trash mobs are just pushovers either…maybe for you they are…but if its so easy just mow em over and collect your loot. As for the majority that I see struggle in AC and TA if Anet did Unleash forcing people to fight these players would eventually get better and learn to understand game mechanics.
It’s just a terrible loot system.
Its far more efficient gold wise to run past “extra” bosses, such as kholer, and just do the minimum required to get the tokens and 25s. It also doesn’t help when all you get from bosses right now is around 10-15s and 3 blues. Minimum should be greens imo.
- give more tokens for completing and less silver
- spread more silver between bosses
- give bosses unique drops (unique skins/recipes/chance at a mini of the boss)
- give trash less hp but give more of them (think arah p2 if you decide to not blow up the risen by the crash site)
- dungeon progression (we need a system to increase player skill, get the into arah instead of babby runing CoF)
Truth be told, skipping requires more skill than fighting these types of enemies since in order to skip them, one must know the proper paths to take and also when to dodge or which skills to use when if things get hairy (which they often don’t because combat with these enemies is pretty dull).
Moot. You have to know when to dodge and which skills to use…more…while you fight mobs vs dodging them once. It doesn’t take more skill to skip. Skipping is simple. It just takes a different kind of skill to skip which is wholly different than requiring more skill. But IMO, remembering that special spot you can jump down or on so the mobs can’t chase you is just memorization and has nothing to do with skill.
If mobs were unleashed, it might increase Thief popularity in dungeon runs which I don’t think is a bad thing. If you want your speed runs, requiring an additional specific class just puts another speed-bump in their productivity.
At that point, you have to ask yourself if decreasing productivity is what is best for the game?
Ya and bosses arent? Skipping requires no skill as you either simply walk by or use a glitch/exploit. Not all trash mobs are just pushovers either…maybe for you they are…but if its so easy just mow em over and collect your loot. As for the majority that I see struggle in AC and TA if Anet did Unleash forcing people to fight these players would eventually get better and learn to understand game mechanics.
They are easy. They’re stupidly easy. I would mow them down with a simple glance in their direction, except they have A MILLION HP because everything is an “Elite” enemy. My glance that would kill a normal enemy barely scratches these “Elite” enemies. The issue here is, they don’t touch me either. So it becomes a war of attrition until the enemy dies in about 2 minutes of beating it with simple skill rotations while I complain about how the time I spent killing that enemy would have been better spent refilling my glass of water or making a sandwich.
Unleashing would do NOTHING except make dungeons even more frustrating than they are now. Reduce the hp of all “Elite” enemies by about 66%, and then maybe “unleashing” mobs in dungeons wouldn’t be so bad. Current dungeon mobs do nothing to engage players in interesting combat. All they do is waste sandwich time.
… All they do is waste sandwich time.
that’s what games do
kill all ze thingz
Truth be told, skipping requires more skill than fighting these types of enemies since in order to skip them, one must know the proper paths to take and also when to dodge or which skills to use when if things get hairy (which they often don’t because combat with these enemies is pretty dull).
Moot. You have to know when to dodge and which skills to use…more…while you fight mobs vs dodging them once. It doesn’t take more skill to skip. Skipping is simple. It just takes a different kind of skill to skip which is wholly different than requiring more skill. But IMO, remembering that special spot you can jump down or on so the mobs can’t chase you is just memorization and has nothing to do with skill.
If mobs were unleashed, it might increase Thief popularity in dungeon runs which I don’t think is a bad thing. If you want your speed runs, requiring an additional specific class just puts another speed-bump in their productivity.
At that point, you have to ask yourself if decreasing productivity is what is best for the game?
You say “more skill” is required to kill your average dungeon mob than skipping them. I’ll grant you that. But how big is the margin of skill between killing a dungeon mob and skipping it? That gap is insignificant given the average dungeon mook’s attack interval and variety of skills. If you look at most dungeon enemies, they aren’t much different than what you might encounter in overworld PvE. They might have 1 or 2 more abilities, but then they also have 1000% more hp for some asinine reason.
This results in a slightly more complex fight (Oh look, I have to dodge when it opens up to attack now) than what you would expect in overworld PvE, yet still very reminiscent of those typically face-roll-y sort of encounters, except that “Now that you’re in our fancy, challenging dungeon!” they drag on for 3 minutes because of enormous enemy health pools. It’s not fun. Killing them isn’t satisfying because there’s nothing skillful about dancing around an enemy for 3 minutes while pressing 1. Finally, their rewards also equate to what you might receive off of a normal overworld PvE enemy.
I don’t understand what you mean by “decreasing productivity,” but I can say that simply drastically lowering dungeon mob hp across the board would probably help thieves indirectly. Since they specialize in single-target damage, they could leap to the back lines and assassinate targets.
Enemy dungeon mobs need more skills (specifically, more single-target skills and gap-closers) and less health. The encounters need to hit harder and go faster. That kind of pace would not only make combat more fun and engaging, but it would also allow thieves to shine better since they would be focusing down enemies with health pools more proportionate to the damage that they can put out.
(edited by Swagg.9236)
… All they do is waste sandwich time.
that’s what games do
Nice attempt at refuting my main point. But, what you say is true. However, what I’m saying is that GW2 wastes far more of it than necessary for no reason at all outside of “bad design.”
Alot of mobs in the higher up dungeons do hit ALOT harder and certain groups sure only have 2-3 abilitys but when paired with the mob next to them will drain you pretty quick…Im not sure why you think encounters need to be harder because A. You skip everything you can and B. You can telepathically one shot every mob ^^ But I agree with Kipz across the board pretty much except on more tokens unless he/she meant for the “sub-bosses”
But unleashing mobs and fixing bosses so they cant be glitched/exploited anymore would wipe alot of groups thus making them have to maybe tweak their gear or build or whatever it takes…I know some people dont enjoy that…but its part of any game theres progression in any game no matter how you look at it…why do people deserve the DM Title when they skip everything they can and glitch every boss they can?
(edited by Mt Soul.5480)
Instead of unleashing mobs or trying to stop people from skipping, you could just join a Dungeon Guild. We have them on every server.
Alot of them have people who are looking for same thing as you. Doing dungeons as intended.
And that way the speed runners who enjoy that play style can continue to do so, and people who like to clear can do that as well. It’s a win/win.
Commander Kane Ragingdragon
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Instead of unleashing mobs or trying to stop people from skipping, you could just join a Dungeon Guild. We have them on every server.
Alot of them have people who are looking for same thing as you. Doing dungeons as intended.
And that way the speed runners who enjoy that play style can continue to do so, and people who like to clear can do that as well. It’s a win/win.
Or stipulate “Full Clear” in your GW2LFG ad.
I try to look out for those, but almost never see them.
I do stipulate full clear…usually get a few grumbles but people play ball. Rare occasions we have to drop a person or two.
You say “more skill” is required to kill your average dungeon mob than skipping them. I’ll grant you that. But how big is the margin of skill between killing a dungeon mob and skipping it? That gap is insignificant given the average dungeon mook’s attack interval and variety of skills. If you look at most dungeon enemies, they aren’t much different than what you might encounter in overworld PvE. They might have 1 or 2 more abilities, but then they also have 1000% more hp for some asinine reason.
This results in a slightly more complex fight (Oh look, I have to dodge when it opens up to attack now) than what you would expect in overworld PvE, yet still very reminiscent of those typically face-roll-y sort of encounters, except that “Now that you’re in our fancy, challenging dungeon!” they drag on for 3 minutes because of enormous enemy health pools. It’s not fun. Killing them isn’t satisfying because there’s nothing skillful about dancing around an enemy for 3 minutes while pressing 1. Finally, their rewards also equate to what you might receive off of a normal overworld PvE enemy.
Often openworld PvE is open and mobile while dungeons can add environmental complexity on top of the standard fare of dodging their skills and killing them. With traps, pits, other mobs, cliffs, blocked passages and so forth. It’s the ‘dungeon’ part of a Dungeon, really and you completely disregard it and negate much of it when you skip.
I don’t understand what you mean by “decreasing productivity,” but I can say that simply drastically lowering dungeon mob hp across the board would probably help thieves indirectly. Since they specialize in single-target damage, they could leap to the back lines and assassinate targets.
Me speaking about dungeon productivity isn’t aimed at you but feel free to discuss it. It was more a question regarding the overall state of dungeons, loot and reward systems for people in the know. If the devs see a problem with how much gold and loot being produced by speed runners or not can be adjusted in many ways although just ramping up diminishing returns or adding another factor to weigh loot tables by feels boring and contrived. Simply making the dungeon longer could be a factor to add, giving more/better loot to longer paths or factoring time.
Really has nothing to do with profession viability or dungeon difficulty but simply a statement about rewards.
Enemy dungeon mobs need more skills (specifically, more single-target skills and gap-closers) and less health. The encounters need to hit harder and go faster. That kind of pace would not only make combat more fun and engaging, but it would also allow thieves to shine better since they would be focusing down enemies with health pools more proportionate to the damage that they can put out.
In your opinion.
Frankly, I find it hard to decide just what a dungeon should be as the experience varies on how you run it. How much HP or how fast things go doesn’t have any correlation to fun. Personally, I find randomness fun. Not knowing exactly what comes next or having to react on the fly. It’s why I enjoy PuGs a lot of the times.