Guild Wars 2

http://i.imgur.com/Y5cAtcC.png

http://sickestguild.com/

We are NA based and yes we are recruiting. This boss was so much fun, shoutout to the awesome devs that have been working around the clock to provide this. We did do it without squad UI, or even party UI, it should be much easier with that fixed.

We had 2 extremely close pulls before this, one at 5% and then another at like 0.1%.

Group comp, 4 Condi Engi (1 tankier hybrid, which was me), 3 Revenants, 1 Druid, 1 Chronomancer, 1 Warrior.
Everyone was in Berserker, except the Condi Engis of course. I don’t think the Berserker meta is quite over with yet.

Videos being uploaded from multiple perspectives (ignore the bad play)

Overall really solid fight, it is definitely well-tuned for good players, and it’s gotten me even more excited for the remainder of this raid

Dom (Scrapper): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFAS7jPwPKk&feature=youtu.be

Card (Chronomancer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjzTaiZhLVI&feature=youtu.be

Nee (Herald:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX3Z21sgYQA&feature=youtu.be

Snow (Herald): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_EwO4nhkts&feature=youtu.be

Bulldog (Engineer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8AKNIO_q2Q&feature=youtu.be

Aeson (Warrior): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY68CYA72cg&feature=youtu.be

Rick (Druid): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thS431kCOcg

No loot btw!

Looks like Squad UI is fixed and raids are back up! GL to everyone else, definitely looking forward to your kills

Congrats.

Our guild were so close yesterday as a 9-man, and having a 10th today would have nailed it for us, but of course the tiny window that they open it today has absolutely no warning so we’re screwed out of it, being EU and all.

Grats, I guess.

Auesis.7301:

Our guild were so close yesterday as a 9-man, and having a 10th today would have nailed it for us, but of course the tiny window that they open it today has absolutely no warning so we’re screwed out of it, being EU and all.

Grats, I guess.

You didn’t get even half as screwed out of it as 99% of the rest of the playerbase

It’s a beta. There are no world firsts in beta especially when most of the playerbase can’t get in. But grats!

I envy anyone who was able to get into the raid. The UI shut down again just as my group was getting ready to jump in.

O gratz!

Do you have a video recorded for us to see what the fight is like? If not can you talk about the fight itself? What classes can be swapped out? What can be done better? What is the general fight and strategy like. I know the basics as I watched some streams and videos floating around but it would be nice to hear it from the guys who actually finished the raid.

Awesome, good job guys

What’d you like about the fight? Where the mechanics interesting and challenging?

Was it just the three pulls, or did it take more attempts that weren’t so close?

I have so many questions, but I’ll stop there :-P

xarallei.4279:

It’s a beta. There are no world firsts in beta especially when most of the playerbase can’t get in. But grats!

It would indeed be meaningful if there was actually competition to be had.

I’d like to be able to at least try the boss myself, to gauge whether or not it’s fun or even remotely challenging. We couldn’t even get everybody in our team in the instance at the same time.

In fact, it took like 45 minutes just to form the first squad because people were bugged and stuck in parties and couldn’t leave them etc.

dlonie.6547:

Awesome, good job guys

What’d you like about the fight? Where the mechanics interesting and challenging?

Was it just the three pulls, or did it take more attempts that weren’t so close?

I have so many questions, but I’ll stop there :-P

People are going to say it’s undertune but to be honest, it’s exactly where it should be, it’s a first boss, we were all extremely well geared, we were extremely prepared and had great communication.

We had been preparing for this for the past months. Also have a group that play well together.

Took about 4-5 hours in total to get there (spread over the weekend, 1 hour today) The first is extremely fun, the mechanics are entertaining, the aggro system is very nice and easy to manipulate. The timer is on point, you need to keep extreme pressure on him (we had 5 Berserker 3 sinister and 1 tank 1 healer), there is lots of things going on and it’s important to have greeat communication, calling lightning, when someone get ported so someone else can get the lighting, calling burst, calling for res and also the small blue AoE which are hard to see.

dlonie.6547:

Awesome, good job guys

What’d you like about the fight? Where the mechanics interesting and challenging?

Was it just the three pulls, or did it take more attempts that weren’t so close?

I have so many questions, but I’ll stop there :-P

I liked the coordination it requires, it’s so much different than everything else in the game. The most interesting mechanic was definitely the group split, I enjoyed that the most because we needed just the right amount of people wearing certain gear on the bosses when they split. Timing the lightning and the pulsing ground together was probably the most challenging I’d say.

With this team it took about 6 pulls I think?

Sweet, thanks

Can you say anything more about the aggro system? It’s rare to hear that a boss in GW2 has manageable aggro. Was it a tank sort of thing, or an environmental thing?

Not trying to spoil the fight, btw, just interested in hearing how PvE Encounters 2.0 are going to be

I’m sure the team is thrilled at hearing how much you guys liked this fight. You guys are definitely the target audience, it made my day that you found it satisfactory.

dlonie.6547:

Sweet, thanks

Can you say anything more about the aggro system? It’s rare to hear that a boss in GW2 has manageable aggro. Was it a tank sort of thing, or an environmental thing?

Not trying to spoil the fight, btw, just interested in hearing how PvE Encounters 2.0 are going to be

It looks like the actual aggro system, but more consistent

Our tank was using toughness gear along with a shield and stayed as close as possible at all time, he never lost aggro. I think commander tag might have something to do with it as well.

dlonie.6547:

Sweet, thanks

Can you say anything more about the aggro system? It’s rare to hear that a boss in GW2 has manageable aggro. Was it a tank sort of thing, or an environmental thing?

Not trying to spoil the fight, btw, just interested in hearing how PvE Encounters 2.0 are going to be

I’m sure the team is thrilled at hearing how much you guys liked this fight. You guys are definitely the target audience, it made my day that you found it satisfactory.

From what I noticed I believe the commander tag is who will have aggro.

Dommmmmmmmmm.6984:

dlonie.6547:

Sweet, thanks

Can you say anything more about the aggro system? It’s rare to hear that a boss in GW2 has manageable aggro. Was it a tank sort of thing, or an environmental thing?

Not trying to spoil the fight, btw, just interested in hearing how PvE Encounters 2.0 are going to be

I’m sure the team is thrilled at hearing how much you guys liked this fight. You guys are definitely the target audience, it made my day that you found it satisfactory.

From what I noticed I believe the commander tag is who will have aggro.

I had the commander tag as an engi in our first attempts and it was staying on someone else. Looks to be similar to the previous system of highest toughness.

Gratz on killing it.

Not the tag, can assure that since our tank isn’t our commander

When you said close pulls at low percentages, were those with respect to the Enrage Timer or just pure mechanics and damage were abundantly punishing your group?

Probably ought to know if the Raw Damage Builds (both condition or direct damage) were the difference or if you could have brought 1-2 people with bulkier, supportive set-ups to absolutely prevent downs or wipes.

They had about 1:10 left on the timer when the boss died and sinister wasn’t even available. I am pretty sure raids can afford to have a bit more tankier/support build if necessary. It looks flexible enough.

Sykper.6583:

When you said close pulls at low percentages, were those with respect to the Enrage Timer or just pure mechanics and damage were abundantly punishing your group?

Probably ought to know if the Raw Damage Builds (both condition or direct damage) were the difference or if you could have brought 1-2 people with bulkier, supportive set-ups to absolutely prevent downs or wipes.

Over the attempts we had pulls that were close and failed to both. Right before the kill we got him to like 0.1% and failed because we had too many people down from the mechanics, but we had a few people up when the enrage timer hit.

Honestly it was a mixture of both. In the end though we had about 1;10 left on the enrage timer when we killed him. I am sure you could take more supportive classes if that is what your group prefers. Min-maxing damage and safety of future mechanics is going to be very important.

Enko.6123:

I had the commander tag as an engi in our first attempts and it was staying on someone else. Looks to be similar to the previous system of highest toughness.

Gratz on killing it.

I believe this to be correct. The Vale Guardian himself seems to agro on whoever has the highest toughness. During the split you get a buff for which pillar you are closest too. Each guardian will agro to someone who has the buff that corresponds to their color.

Bulldog.9254:

Sykper.6583:

When you said close pulls at low percentages, were those with respect to the Enrage Timer or just pure mechanics and damage were abundantly punishing your group?

Probably ought to know if the Raw Damage Builds (both condition or direct damage) were the difference or if you could have brought 1-2 people with bulkier, supportive set-ups to absolutely prevent downs or wipes.

Over the attempts we had pulls that were close and failed to both. Right before the kill we got him to like 0.1% and failed because we had too many people down from the mechanics, but we had a few people up when the enrage timer hit.

Honestly it was a mixture of both. In the end though we had about 1;10 left on the enrage timer when we killed him. I am sure you could take more supportive classes if that is what your group prefers. Min-maxing damage and safety of future mechanics is going to be very important.

Enko.6123:

I had the commander tag as an engi in our first attempts and it was staying on someone else. Looks to be similar to the previous system of highest toughness.

Gratz on killing it.

I believe this to be correct. The Vale Guardian himself seems to agro on whoever has the highest toughness. During the split you get a buff for which pillar you are closest too. Each guardian will agro to someone who has the buff that corresponds to their color.

Nice information on the attempts and the Actual kill – Enrage Timer, going to presume the raid likely had full ascended (given the vendor in the raid instance) then.

I can also dig the idea of locational and buff-orientated aggro like the Slime from Aetherpath.

I really would want an actual attempt myself on the content though but this is excellent information nevertheless, I both thank and congratulate you on this constructive raid feedback from an actual kill! Hearing you getting hyped is making us all a bit hungry for more I imagine!

Sykper.6583:

Nice information on the attempts and the Actual kill – Enrage Timer, going to presume the raid likely had full ascended (given the vendor in the raid instance) then.

I can also dig the idea of locational and buff-orientated aggro like the Slime from Aetherpath.

I really would want an actual attempt myself on the content though but this is excellent information nevertheless, I both thank and congratulate you on this constructive raid feedback from an actual kill! Hearing you getting hyped is making us all a bit hungry for more I imagine!

Yea we know that A LOT of people were not able to get in, or only had very limited time. We just happened to be one of the few groups that were trying at the right time. I look forward to release or future tests where more people can get in and min-max their own strategies to see how it evolves.

Also ANET definitely has some awesome mechanics in store for us. At the end of the video you can hear how hyped all of us are to get our hands on the rest of the raids.

—>Yea we were in all ascended. However, it wasn’t optimized at all. The DPS engies were in Rabid instead of Sinister. Also we used Undead Runes instead of Nightmare or Aristocracy. Not everyone had top of the line food too, we were very limited by what ANET actually gave us.

Sooooo What… the raid fix nerf this guy into the ground? I’m going to be SERIOUSLY disappointed if that is the case…

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Sooooo What… the raid fix nerf this guy into the ground? I’m going to be SERIOUSLY disappointed if that is the case…

Maybe you should try it yourself before thinking it was nerfed.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Sooooo What… the raid fix nerf this guy into the ground? I’m going to be SERIOUSLY disappointed if that is the case…

The fight is definitely challenging; make no mistake about it. But the fact that the only clears I’ve seen were by full zerk team denotes a number tuning problem. More defensive groups aren’t able to do it as easily.

I just wish I could tell what was going on. I watched a few of the videos, and it looks like the hardest part of this raid will be the gigantic flashing lights obstructing the view.

Malthurius.6870:

The fight is definitely challenging; make no mistake about it. But the fact that the only clears I’ve seen were by full zerk team denotes a number tuning problem. More defensive groups aren’t able to do it as easily.

Quite weird to say this in a thread where the group was NOT full zerk team.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I just wish I could tell what was going on. I watched a few of the videos, and it looks like the hardest part of this raid will be the gigantic flashing lights obstructing the view.

Look at any raid ever that you’re not familiar with, and you’ll be very hard pressed to understand what anything means or what’s going on. This isn’t a GW2 unique problem.

Familiar with any encounters in WoW Firelands? Tell me how intuitive this looks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JzGNfNlWlg

All that matters is that the raid itself knows what’s going on; raiding isn’t meant to be a spectator sport. My group fighting the vale guardian had no problem recognizing mechanics and AE during the fight.

lordkrall.7241:

Quite weird to say this in a thread where the group was NOT full zerk team.

You’re right, I misspoke. 9/10 full zerk teams. Full zerk is most likely doable, dropping that 1 tankier individual isn’t going to suddenly make that team fall apart.

4 engis that were not zerker. I also seem to recall from the reddit thread that the Druid was using Clerics. So that basically means half of the group not being zerker.

lordkrall.7241:

4 engis that were not zerker. I also seem to recall from the reddit thread that the Druid was using Clerics. So that basically means half of the group not being zerker.

So, is the OP lying about his comp?

Dommmmmmmmmm.6984:

Everyone was in Berserker, except the Condi Engis of course. I don’t think the Berserker meta is quite over with yet.

The condi engis were still in full dps gear; it’d be more apt to say “DPS meta”, because defensive stats are close to worthless, and even detrimental in the face of the enrage timer.

Also, this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/LOD-Vale-Guardian-Down/first#post5573311 claims to have cleared the boss with 9 zerkers and a celestial guardian, and the only reason the guardian was in celestial was to manipulate aggro AI; even saying that the guardian going in clerics was too much.

My entire point being that offensive stats are too good and defensive stats are worth barely anything in this content thus far.

Here is a post from the reddit thread:

Our Druid was using Cleric’s.
We had 4 Engineers/Scrappers (only some of them took the specialization if I recall correctly). They were all wearing Rabid with whatever Sinister they had in their banks, since Sinister gear wasn’t available in the beta boxes. The Revenants, Warrior, and Chronomancer were all wearing their appropriate damage gear.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3nipnp/world_first_vale_guardian_kill/cvohjmm

I see two sinisters in that other group. They are not zerker.

Malthurius.6870:

Also, this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/LOD-Vale-Guardian-Down/first#post5573311 claims to have cleared the boss with 9 zerkers and a celestial guardian, and the only reason the guardian was in celestial was to manipulate aggro AI; even saying that the guardian going in clerics was too much.

My entire point being that offensive stats are too good and defensive stats are worth barely anything in this content thus far.

Are you confusing “Zerker gear” with “DPS gear”? The Engineers were in Sinister which is still a DPS build (and higher DPS than Berserker).

Enko.6123:

Are you confusing “Zerker gear” with “DPS gear”? The Engineers were in Sinister which is still a DPS build (and higher DPS than Berserker).

Yes, when I say “Zerker” I mean “DPS”. Sorry if that’s confusing.

Really now? People are not supposed to use DPS stats at all? The zerker-phobia was bad enough but now it’s extending to other stat combinations?

Look at raiding in other games… in WoW there is literally only 1 way to gear up any given spec. There is a very clear best in slot and a clear stat weighting that people follow.

DPS roles will want DPS stats. It’s that simple. There may be DPS stats that are better for some specs than others, hence we have people using sinister instead of berserker. Why would anyone voluntarily kitten themselves and use stats that provide him with less DPS, if DPS is what they are brought in for?

Support roles might use different stats, and so will tanks. And PvP and WvW call for different stat sets entirely. But if you are looking to completely outlaw berserker stats from PvE I think you will be disappointed, because it’s just not realistic.

Yalu.6810:

Really now? People are not supposed to use DPS stats at all? The zerker-phobia was bad enough but now it’s extending to other stat combinations?

Look at raiding in other games… in WoW there is literally only 1 way to gear up any given spec. There is a very clear best in slot and a clear stat weighting that people follow.

DPS roles will want DPS stats. It’s that simple. There may be DPS stats that are better for some specs than others, hence we have people using sinister instead of berserker. Why would anyone voluntarily kitten themselves and use stats that provide him with less DPS, if DPS is what they are brought in for?

Support roles might use different stats, and so will tanks. And PvP and WvW call for different stat sets entirely. But if you are looking to completely outlaw berserker stats from PvE I think you will be disappointed, because it’s just not realistic.

Jesus christ… when did I say DPS stats should be banned? That’s not the problem. The problem is that taking defensive stats is bad for your group as a whole. If too many people build too defensively, the group cannot succeed. It’s not a good thing that you can clear the raid in nothing but DPS stated gear, and the more defense you bring the harder the content becomes.

Right now defensive stats are outlawed in raids; they are counter productive.

Gz on the kill!
One question though, after watching the video it seems like the boss does mostly autoattacks and the biggest challenge comes from the timer and not from the boss itself.
Or am i missing something?

The boss was so much fun???? Jesus.. I must have been playing a different game.

GZ to the Kill.

The Boss has certain Mechanics that you need to be aware of Lendruil otherwise you will wipe after 10 Seconds.
There are the Red Seeker Orbs that go towards the Raid and do a good amount of Damage but can be knocked back.
You have small blue AOE Fields that Teleport you away when they activate, you should not stand in these.
The most important Mechanic is the Lightning Orb. You need 5 People to soak this AOE otherwise the entire Raid will die. If you are on the Soaking Team, make sure not to be Teleported away xD
There are 2 Intermission Phases where the Raid splits up and kills the 3 Guardians.
At Phase 2 you have 2 new Mechanics. The first one is a Clusterkitten of AOEs but the Bosses Breakbar gets enabled and you need to kill this Breakbar. The other Mechanic is that one third of the Floor start to shine and you don’t want to be there and you need to Position your entire Raid far away from the shiny Floor ( which also switches so you have to move ) just to make sure that the Lighting doesn’t Spawn in the Shiny Field.
Phase 3: 2/3 of the Field is shiny.

So the Boss Encounter itself is Challenging enough even without the Timer and you have to know the Mechanics and how to deal with them.

@ Mitch. Perhaps you can tell us what you don’t like about the Boss encounter.

Walhalla.5473:

GZ to the Kill.

@ Mitch. Perhaps you can tell us what you don’t like about the Boss encounter.

Ive made a post outlining my view. I honestly cannot fathom how people think this is good enough? It’s an extremely poor attempt at best.

Malthurius.6870:

All that matters is that the raid itself knows what’s going on; raiding isn’t meant to be a spectator sport. My group fighting the vale guardian had no problem recognizing mechanics and AE during the fight.

That’s the problem. Watching the videos, the effects were so bright and huge that I couldn’t see the circles many times. I’m hoping that it is because the players didn’t turn down LoD and post processing, but if that is what it looks like even after reductions, then I am not looking forward to raids.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Malthurius.6870:

All that matters is that the raid itself knows what’s going on; raiding isn’t meant to be a spectator sport. My group fighting the vale guardian had no problem recognizing mechanics and AE during the fight.

That’s the problem. Watching the videos, the effects were so bright and huge that I couldn’t see the circles many times. I’m hoping that it is because the players didn’t turn down LoD and post processing, but if that is what it looks like even after reductions, then I am not looking forward to raids.

No, that’s not a problem. He literally said that you can’t judge a raid’s mechanical clarity based on a video or viewing it alone. Raids are chaotic and a clusterkitten if you’re not familiar with the mechanics or not actually involved in the fight, so the only real conclusions you can make are those you reach after actually playing the content.

Congrats. I also noticed everyone was an Asura? Once again, proving the master race is unstoppable. I bet those Vale Guardians were humiliated!

Lendruil.9061:

Gz on the kill!
One question though, after watching the video it seems like the boss does mostly autoattacks and the biggest challenge comes from the timer and not from the boss itself.
Or am i missing something?

The biggest challenge was getting people safely into the lightning AoE while maintaining good dps on the boss, along with that, the seeker deal a naster 3-4k damage every second. Eventually when the floor start illuminating and dealing damage, getting into the aoe becomes even more dangerous.

There is also the danger of getting teleported right before a AoE spawn making it impossible for the dedicated people to reach in time, so we need to call it out really fast (you can hear us panic at one point and scream lightning over and over)

Id say most wipe are and will be from getting 4 players into the aoe in time.

Malthurius.6870:

The problem is that taking defensive stats is bad for your group as a whole.

Taking defensive stats where they are not necessary in a raid is bad, has been bad in every raid since forever, and means that it is tuned appropriately. The whole point of the enrage timer is to force a certain measure of DPS such that teams cannot go full bunker and still complete it. The very fact that one character was running Cleric’s and a few were running Toughness in their condition builds should be telling enough that sufficient gear diversity exists.

Note that when they finished they still had ~1:20 on the timer. That means slightly bulkier and lower DPS groups could still finish just fine.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Taking defensive stats where they are not necessary in a raid is bad, has been bad in every raid since forever, and means that it is tuned appropriately.

This is a beta, so I think it’s reasonable to question whether or not the current minimum for the raids survivability is appropriate.

I think the minimum survivability required should be higher and the minimum dps should be lower. This isn’t WoW where characters have defined roles; so the mechanics have to enforce those roles instead. It doesn’t seem outside of the realm of possibility that a group of nothing but dps builds could clear this particular boss; defensive stats seem undervalued.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Note that when they finished they still had ~1:20 on the timer. That means slightly bulkier and lower DPS groups could still finish just fine.

This is good, but I still believe the balance of survivability to damage is still skewed too much towards damage. For example, WoW would have 2 tanks, 3 healers, and 5 dps, usually for a 10 man. 1 hybrid/support/tank/ect and 9 dps seems skewed by comparison.

The fight is balanced around the raid having survivability stats as well as damage already; I just think the importance of survivability should have a bit more weight.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Note that when they finished they still had ~1:20 on the timer. That means slightly bulkier and lower DPS groups could still finish just fine.

And I’d add that they have heavy use of unfinished Elite spec which could be heavily nerfed during the next balance pass….not saying they will but who knows.

Malthurius.6870:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Taking defensive stats where they are not necessary in a raid is bad, has been bad in every raid since forever, and means that it is tuned appropriately.

This is a beta, so I think it’s reasonable to question whether or not the current minimum for the raids survivability is appropriate.

I think the minimum survivability required should be higher and the minimum dps should be lower. This isn’t WoW where characters have defined roles; so the mechanics have to enforce those roles instead. It doesn’t seem outside of the realm of possibility that a group of nothing but dps builds could clear this particular boss; defensive stats seem undervalued.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Note that when they finished they still had ~1:20 on the timer. That means slightly bulkier and lower DPS groups could still finish just fine.

This is good, but I still believe the balance of survivability to damage is still skewed too much towards damage. For example, WoW would have 2 tanks, 3 healers, and 5 dps, usually for a 10 man. 1 hybrid/support/tank/ect and 9 dps seems skewed by comparison.

The fight is balanced around the raid having survivability stats as well as damage already; I just think the importance of survivability should have a bit more weight.

Due to active defense in this game we have never been required to carry dead weight if we were good enough to run full glass. Our defensive utilities are not tied to our gear.

Nothing about this should change. If people want to run tanker or healish builds, that is fine, they should have that option, but nothing should require us to take them. That would go against everything this game was sold on.

Talyn.3295:

Due to active defense in this game we have never been required to carry dead weight if we were good enough to run full glass. Our defensive utilities are not tied to our gear.

Nothing about this should change. If people want to run tanker or healish builds, that is fine, they should have that option, but nothing should require us to take them. That would go against everything this game was sold on.

But that’s the rub. The timer on the boss makes it so that the raid has to achieve a minimum amount of dps to succeed. This is good, I like that, it’s important. But what that does is make it so that if the group has too much defense they cannot succeed. If the current balance is 1 support to 9 dps, then I think it should learn further towards support so more people that enjoy that role can enter the raid and still succeed.

What’s the difference between requiring 9 dps and requiring 3 supports?

Malthurius.6870:

Talyn.3295:

Due to active defense in this game we have never been required to carry dead weight if we were good enough to run full glass. Our defensive utilities are not tied to our gear.

Nothing about this should change. If people want to run tanker or healish builds, that is fine, they should have that option, but nothing should require us to take them. That would go against everything this game was sold on.

But that’s the rub. The timer on the boss makes it so that the raid has to achieve a minimum amount of dps to succeed. This is good, I like that, it’s important. But what that does is make it so that if the group has too much defense they cannot succeed. If the current balance is 1 support to 9 dps, then I think it should learn further towards support so more people that enjoy that role can enter the raid and still succeed.

What’s the difference between requiring 9 dps and requiring 3 supports?

You’re talking like DPS and Support are two completely separate roles.

They aren’t. I main a guardian, and I can tell you that I generally have 3 support utilities slotted, usually two at a min. Along with support Traits despite wearing zerker gear. It isn’t required that people wear Soldier or Clerics or nomads to give support to their team. The wonderful thing about guild wars 2 is that we have never had to choose between DPS and Support.

If they had 1:30 left on the even tankier specs should be able to complete the challenge

Malthurius.6870:

Talyn.3295:

Due to active defense in this game we have never been required to carry dead weight if we were good enough to run full glass. Our defensive utilities are not tied to our gear.

Nothing about this should change. If people want to run tanker or healish builds, that is fine, they should have that option, but nothing should require us to take them. That would go against everything this game was sold on.

But that’s the rub. The timer on the boss makes it so that the raid has to achieve a minimum amount of dps to succeed. This is good, I like that, it’s important. But what that does is make it so that if the group has too much defense they cannot succeed. If the current balance is 1 support to 9 dps, then I think it should learn further towards support so more people that enjoy that role can enter the raid and still succeed.

What’s the difference between requiring 9 dps and requiring 3 supports?

Requiring 3 supports makes any thing a joke.
You can make more mistakes and get away with it since you have 3 supports keeping you alive- that’s the difference.

9 DPS and 1 support requires more skill (in terms of staying alive and keeping up the pressure on the boss , as well as requiring a more skillful healer who can keep up with helping 9 team mates alive)

Thats the difference – making raid require more support characters makes it easier. Anet doesn’t want to make it easier.

This raid was done in zerker + sinisters (basically zerker for condi specs) and 1 clerics (the druid)… so yea it was all DPS and 1 healer/tank….remember, warriors and revs are just naturally tanky and have good active defense… they don’t need to be in soldiers gear lol….

You don’t need to wear support gear…. your support comes from traits/skills/utilities…. not from gear….. unlike DPS, where majority of the DPS comes from your gear/food while traits are just icing on the cake…

Every character takes SOME support traits/skills/utilities…. but you can’t substitute that DPS loss with gear change… you have to be in zerker/sinsiter if you want to keep high pressure on the boss and beat the enrage timer.

Malthurius.6870:

But that’s the rub. The timer on the boss makes it so that the raid has to achieve a minimum amount of dps to succeed. This is good, I like that, it’s important. But what that does is make it so that if the group has too much defense they cannot succeed. If the current balance is 1 support to 9 dps, then I think it should learn further towards support so more people that enjoy that role can enter the raid and still succeed.

I’m sure people can still complete it with 2-3 support and the runs would be smoother. The enraged timer isn’t hard to meet at all and will be even more of a non-factor when players become more experienced in the raid and more experienced with the specializations.

Malthurius.6870:

What’s the difference between requiring 9 dps and requiring 3 supports?

The difference is GW2, and how everyone should run DPS and everyone should run support. You don’t have to allocate all support into a few people and all DPS into everyone else. Four DPS condition engineers provide a bloody lot of healing with their water fields and blasts, and them doing so allows you to run a more offensive supporter/healerish character like a DPS Druid or a DPS Revenant with Ventari.

We really have to stop thinking about players like they are “DPS only” or “Healing only” or “Tanking only”. Everyone can do a little bit and contribute enough to make it work, and that’s sort of the whole point of GW2 combat.