Guild Wars 2

……… and the other classes are rubbish in FOTM.
So when are they gonna balance it out abit? This is getting silly.

I would take a thief over a mesmer to be honest. Don’t see many situations where a guardian can’t keep up reflects. Besides the extra blind is nice for most fractals…except dredge.

Yeah Thief is good to have for most fractals, blind/stealth are really useful utilities

All i can tell you is thief is good for dredge map, so very useful

You play a necro don’t you?

robertul.3679:

You play a necro don’t you?

LOL Yes, I do. I used to play with many thieves in fotm. They’re really good for dredge map.

Does anyone remember when Elementalist was also considered thrash?

Wethospu.6437:

Does anyone remember when Elementalist was also considered thrash?

Yes. I think they are the same people that pick up a FGS and autoattack

Ele received few nice traits like new persisting flames and fresh air that allow builds like d/f to shine. Plus, more people found about conjures.

I’d say all the classes have their use in FOTM, except Necro.

Brutal Arts.6307:

I’d say all the classes have their use in FOTM, except Necro.

Even necro has a use in fotm.

only at maw for the field so the ele can lifedrain. and aoe’ing mobs at fire shaman. other than that, no need for necros in fracs

spoj.9672:

Brutal Arts.6307:

I’d say all the classes have their use in FOTM, except Necro.

Even necro has a use in fotm.

Weakness? Chill? Dark Fields on Maw?
Please enlighten me as to which specific fractal I’d want to swap to necro over anything else.

In my opinion, Spectral Grasp, the Condi cleanse field and that AoE Blind are so good in Fractals. Let me remember…

• Weapon facilities
• Aetherblade
• Thaumanova
• Uncategorized (Harpy)
• Fire Shaman (Grawl, first part)
• Maw (Dark Field)
• Cliff side
• Urban Battleground

I find my necro friend does decently even in

• Dredge
• Swamp
• Mai Trin

and has a particular difficult time in

• Snowblind
• Fire shaman boss
  to name a few

Albeit not a best class, necro is still very good when playing right. I’d rather take a necro who has spent hundreds of hours to perfect his/her play than a new player in one of the meta classes (war/guard/mes/thief).

Edit: My friends and I do Fractals 40/50 daily in a PuG friendly state. Our group combination is usually Mes/Guard/Necro/Ele/PuG or Thief/Mes/Necro/Ele/PuG.

Thief and Guardian can blind really often and their stuff isn’t on a 50/180 second cooldown.
Mesmer and Guardian pull is superior, just by the fact it’s tied to a weapon and aoe.
Cleanse shouldn’t be a problem for other classes and outside of Mai Trin i don’t know where you need that so heavily.

Sure, a car can go with 3 wheels on it, but i prefer 4, sorry.

Brutal Arts.6307:

spoj.9672:

Brutal Arts.6307:

I’d say all the classes have their use in FOTM, except Necro.

Even necro has a use in fotm.

Weakness? Chill? Dark Fields on Maw?
Please enlighten me as to which specific fractal I’d want to swap to necro over anything else.

The dark fields yeah. Speeds up jade maw a lot. But then thief can sort of do it aswell but only on 1 high cd skill.

Chill is about the only non exploitive thing necro is better than any other class at. Unfortunately its far from needed.

Kaffeglass.5371:

……… and the other classes are rubbish in FOTM.
So when are they gonna balance it out abit? This is getting silly.

Are you implying that fractals aren’t balanced?
What proof do you have?
Why do you feel the classes currently aren’t balanced?
Have you looked at videos online regarding fractal runs?
How long have you played the game (/age)?
What is your main?
Do you have alts?

These questions will give us insight on your decision making process to slander the great content that is called fractals. Let me know if you have any questions.

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

This, except I really don’t care about negative opinions of me on a video game forum, so I feel no shame in saying it.

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

That won’t change anything except the speed of kills. Ele will still have top dps. The general gameplay won’t change. People will still pull bosses into walls so the bosses won’t keep walking backwards.

Clumsy.6257:

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

That won’t change anything except the speed of kills. Ele will still have top dps. The general gameplay won’t change. People will still pull bosses into walls so the bosses won’t keep walking backwards.

It’d be a start though. Ideally speaking I’d like to have AI improved to prevent corner/wall stacking from being so universally effective.

Black Box.9312:

Clumsy.6257:

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

That won’t change anything except the speed of kills. Ele will still have top dps. The general gameplay won’t change. People will still pull bosses into walls so the bosses won’t keep walking backwards.

It’d be a start though. Ideally speaking I’d like to have AI improved to prevent corner/wall stacking from being so universally effective.

Fortunately, what you think to be ideal plays no part in deciding balance changes.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

Clumsy.6257:

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

That won’t change anything except the speed of kills. Ele will still have top dps. The general gameplay won’t change. People will still pull bosses into walls so the bosses won’t keep walking backwards.

It’d be a start though. Ideally speaking I’d like to have AI improved to prevent corner/wall stacking from being so universally effective.

Fortunately, what you think to be ideal plays no part in deciding balance changes.

Well, I guess not everyone can handle a game that would actually be challenging.

Black Box.9312:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

Clumsy.6257:

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

That won’t change anything except the speed of kills. Ele will still have top dps. The general gameplay won’t change. People will still pull bosses into walls so the bosses won’t keep walking backwards.

It’d be a start though. Ideally speaking I’d like to have AI improved to prevent corner/wall stacking from being so universally effective.

Fortunately, what you think to be ideal plays no part in deciding balance changes.

Well, I guess not everyone can handle a game that would actually be challenging.

This should get interesting…

Black Box.9312:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

Clumsy.6257:

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

That won’t change anything except the speed of kills. Ele will still have top dps. The general gameplay won’t change. People will still pull bosses into walls so the bosses won’t keep walking backwards.

It’d be a start though. Ideally speaking I’d like to have AI improved to prevent corner/wall stacking from being so universally effective.

Fortunately, what you think to be ideal plays no part in deciding balance changes.

Well, I guess not everyone can handle a game that would actually be challenging.

I guess that in the end that’s the only argument you people have left.
If I want a challenge, I solo Arah, do higher level Fractals, run dungeons naked or PvP.
What some people need to get through their skulls is that to some people, myself included, enjoy efficiency and the feeling of a job well-done.
The changes you are proposing won’t add any sort of challenge at all. They’ll just lengthen the runs by a little bit, especially for non-zerkers.

If ANET wants to make their game more challenging, they’ll need to make more significant changes and not only tweak some cheesy skills that people will do without.
When/If those changes occur, I’ll simply adapt to them and carry on instead of complaining here, creating endless threads about the same subject, much like mediocre players do.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

Clumsy.6257:

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

That won’t change anything except the speed of kills. Ele will still have top dps. The general gameplay won’t change. People will still pull bosses into walls so the bosses won’t keep walking backwards.

It’d be a start though. Ideally speaking I’d like to have AI improved to prevent corner/wall stacking from being so universally effective.

Fortunately, what you think to be ideal plays no part in deciding balance changes.

Well, I guess not everyone can handle a game that would actually be challenging.

I guess that in the end that’s the only argument you people have left.
If I want a challenge, I solo Arah, do higher level Fractals, run dungeons naked or PvP.
What some people need to get through their skulls is that to some people, myself included, enjoy efficiency and the feeling of a job well-done.
The changes you are proposing won’t add any sort of challenge at all. They’ll just lengthen the runs by a little bit, especially for non-zerkers.

If ANET wants to make their game more challenging, they’ll need to make more significant changes and not only tweak some cheesy skills that people will do without.
When/If those changes occur, I’ll simply adapt to them and carry on instead of complaining here, creating endless threads about the same subject, much like mediocre players do.

Yeah, I think that’s what everyone fails to understand. A lot of us don’t run zerker because “zomg damage lel”, we run it because it’s the most efficient way of doing things. If they drastically changed the game mechanics (healing scaling better with healing power) and introduced challenging content that required some other gear type/new strats, I’m sure plenty of us will adapt without whining.

I mean, look at the new alphard. Bad players whined, we just adapted by bringing more reflects and making sure to keep up reflects/making sure we burned him down fast.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

Clumsy.6257:

Zelyhn.8069:

Many people are going to hate me but I can’t wait until they design all movement-attack skills like FGS rush or whirlwind attack to hit foes only once per use.

I am tired of banging mobs against the walls. I want real fights.

Then we will see all those “meta” ele and warriors fail so hard not knowing what to do

That won’t change anything except the speed of kills. Ele will still have top dps. The general gameplay won’t change. People will still pull bosses into walls so the bosses won’t keep walking backwards.

It’d be a start though. Ideally speaking I’d like to have AI improved to prevent corner/wall stacking from being so universally effective.

Fortunately, what you think to be ideal plays no part in deciding balance changes.

Well, I guess not everyone can handle a game that would actually be challenging.

I guess that in the end that’s the only argument you people have left.
If I want a challenge, I solo Arah, do higher level Fractals, run dungeons naked or PvP.
What some people need to get through their skulls is that to some people, myself included, enjoy efficiency and the feeling of a job well-done.
The changes you are proposing won’t add any sort of challenge at all. They’ll just lengthen the runs by a little bit, especially for non-zerkers.

If ANET wants to make their game more challenging, they’ll need to make more significant changes and not only tweak some cheesy skills that people will do without.
When/If those changes occur, I’ll simply adapt to them and carry on instead of complaining here, creating endless threads about the same subject, much like mediocre players do.

Reworking the AI actually would fix most of the issues plaguing PvE. That is what I was referring to.

I HAVE played through dungeons and I HAVE used the current meta tactics. I just stopped doing it because it bores the hell out of me.

Black Box.9312:

Reworking the AI actually would fix most of the issues plaguing PvE. That is what I was referring to.

I HAVE played through dungeons and I HAVE used the current meta tactics. I just stopped doing it because it bores the hell out of me.

None of the changes to AI would ever fix the issues you have in mind. You can achieve almost identical efficiency while gimping yourself with proper team compositions.

Kaffeglass.5371:

……… and the other classes are rubbish in FOTM.
So when are they gonna balance it out abit? This is getting silly.

Since when? Who said this? Your guild leader? Your grandma? A pug? Nah wait, don’t bother. I don’t care.

haviz.1340:

Black Box.9312:

Reworking the AI actually would fix most of the issues plaguing PvE. That is what I was referring to.

I HAVE played through dungeons and I HAVE used the current meta tactics. I just stopped doing it because it bores the hell out of me.

None of the changes to AI would ever fix the issues you have in mind. You can achieve almost identical efficiency while gimping yourself with proper team compositions.

Programming AI to actively avoid damage would go a long way.

Black Box.9312:

haviz.1340:

Black Box.9312:

Reworking the AI actually would fix most of the issues plaguing PvE. That is what I was referring to.

I HAVE played through dungeons and I HAVE used the current meta tactics. I just stopped doing it because it bores the hell out of me.

None of the changes to AI would ever fix the issues you have in mind. You can achieve almost identical efficiency while gimping yourself with proper team compositions.

Programming AI to actively avoid damage would go a long way.

Easier said than done.

What I always wonder why stealth is working in the Drege Fractal but blind not …

Balsa.3951:

What I always wonder why stealth is working in the Drege Fractal but blind not …

Don’t give them ideas

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Black Box.9312:

haviz.1340:

Black Box.9312:

Reworking the AI actually would fix most of the issues plaguing PvE. That is what I was referring to.

I HAVE played through dungeons and I HAVE used the current meta tactics. I just stopped doing it because it bores the hell out of me.

None of the changes to AI would ever fix the issues you have in mind. You can achieve almost identical efficiency while gimping yourself with proper team compositions.

Programming AI to actively avoid damage would go a long way.

Easier said than done.

I never said it’d be simple, but it’s definitely possible. The mechanics are all there; it’d just need to be integrated into the current AI.

Black Box.9312:

Programming AI to actively avoid damage would go a long way.

What would that change? Would mobs dodge attacks? Would you need cc? What would stop them from dodging your cc?

haviz.1340:

What would stop them from dodging your cc?

Obviously, wishful thinking would.

Balsa.3951:

What I always wonder why stealth is working in the Drege Fractal but blind not …

Dredge are immune to blind.

Anierna.6918:

haviz.1340:

What would stop them from dodging your cc?

Obviously, wishful thinking would.

I think a better idea would be turning Mob’s AI into a state machine. They could have an interrupt set to trigger when they take damage, this interrupt routine would then constantly poll to sample the DPS they’re receiving, if the rate passes a threshold the mob’s AI will switch states to a kiting mode. They could also have them poll their attackers for select big hits.

Tree.3916:

Kaffeglass.5371:

……… and the other classes are rubbish in FOTM.
So when are they gonna balance it out abit? This is getting silly.

Are you implying that fractals aren’t balanced?
What proof do you have?
Why do you feel the classes currently aren’t balanced?
Have you looked at videos online regarding fractal runs?
How long have you played the game (/age)?
What is your main?
Do you have alts?

These questions will give us insight on your decision making process to slander the great content that is called fractals. Let me know if you have any questions.

Hi mister.

Well i play an engineer and i dont find my char THAT bad.. but i have a warrior and he’s 5 times better in fotm.

Just plz watch the descripton for each party .. 80% shows “Warrior, guard, mesmer zerg group”

I mean, why get an engineer’s dmg when u can get a warrior’s dmg which is higher? why get an engineers healing while ele’s healing are better?

Warriors offers the best dmg output
Guardians offers the best dmg reduction
Eles offers the best healing

It’s simple really..

Would u like x2 necros and 1 ranger in your group? if they are decent players?

laharl.8435:

Balsa.3951:

What I always wonder why stealth is working in the Drege Fractal but blind not …

Dredge are immune to blind.

I think what he means is that if dredge are immune to blinds because they already are blind but they can attack us maybe because of hearing us then why dont they attack us when we are stealth too its not like they can lose more vision than already being blind.
Also i worded this pretty badly i think so i hope you understand what im trying to say.

Kaffeglass.5371:

Hi mister.

Well i play an engineer and i dont find my char THAT bad.. but i have a warrior and he’s 5 times better in fotm.

Just plz watch the descripton for each party .. 80% shows “Warrior, guard, mesmer zerg group”

I mean, why get an engineer’s dmg when u can get a warrior’s dmg which is higher? why get an engineers healing while ele’s healing are better?

Warriors offers the best dmg output
Guardians offers the best dmg reduction
Eles offers the best healing

It’s simple really..

Would u like x2 necros and 1 ranger in your group? if they are decent players?

Well since you don’t know the difference between zerk/zerg, think that wars give the best damage, expect that eles are healers, and don’t understand that rangers are actually desired in many groups (and necro has some fractal specific uses) I don’t really see how any part of your opinion is an informed one, especially since you think its “simple really”

I won’t normally kick engies from my runs (I do kick bow rangers, staff guards, GS mesmers, ect) because in my experience most engies are pretty scary good at their class at this point (the few that still actively play them that is), but this post might make me revise my opinion.

Rangers are barely tolerable for fractals. Even if you fixed the dodge on sword it would still be bad because it follows/stick to stuff like glue and thus can’t allow max melee ranging anything which is pretty pitiful at high level fotms.

They could bring greatsword, and then be 2x less useful.

Nikaido.3457:

Rangers are barely tolerable for fractals. Even if you fixed the dodge on sword it would still be bad because it follows/stick to stuff like glue and thus can’t allow max melee ranging anything which is pretty pitiful at high level fotms.

They could bring greatsword, and then be 2x less useful.

I’d say the issue is more related to the profession than it is to the dungeons.

SuckZoor.9052:

laharl.8435:

Balsa.3951:

What I always wonder why stealth is working in the Drege Fractal but blind not …

Dredge are immune to blind.

I think what he means is that if dredge are immune to blinds because they already are blind but they can attack us maybe because of hearing us then why dont they attack us when we are stealth too its not like they can lose more vision than already being blind.
Also i worded this pretty badly i think so i hope you understand what im trying to say.

I do understand, and thanks for clarifying. That makes sense.

Maybe the dredge sense where you are by sonar and stealth also masks you in the same way stealth planes are hidden. I’m pulling stuff out of my kitten now.

What do you define as rubbish? My quotidian scale 49 group consists of 2 engineers, 2 necromancers and 1 elementalist. Our runs are smooth and contrary to what some extremists would say, does not take 1-2 hours to complete.

Engi + necro are scary. Seriously.