Guild Wars 2

As I said, my guild sells Arah path 4 slots before endboss. We advertise the costs on map chat and gw2lfg. We let people join to see endboss is ready to get killed and ask them to fork over the money. If they suddenly dont want to pay they get removed from the group again.

I don’t see this being a problem, but only if people know up front that this is what’s being offered. Thus they have the opportunity to just not join.

If it’s something where you’re just invited to fill a group then find out once you’re standing there at the boss “BTW 15g PLZ”, that’s really obnoxious.

If you helped clear the dungeon from the start then they try to extort money, of course report them.

So how are people getting there with an empty space?

Do they run with less than a full group up to the final boss or get there and vote kick some one because they know they can get 15g extra for the run by booting then and inviting someone else?

Typically its a guild run. 4 people leave at endboss to invite 4 costumers. Money gets divided by 5 for everyone who did the run.

Thanks Male.

……………..

Malediktus, selling slots is not OFICIAL or/and regulated by ANET, the rule is, kicking someone from the dungeon without offense or griefing is bannable. Simple as that.

Even if you advertise, explain that is a paid run, it´s not something oficial or controlled by ANET, so if you want to prevent a ban for kicking player that don´t want to pay it´s better to ask, sugest, anet for some regulations about this.

And for people claiming it´s ilegal, whatever… It´s not ilegal if they don´t use exploits to do this, if they are legit, just think about it. A very dificult dungeon, a high chest and boss loot, the time needed to go to last boss and only few people are really running Arah. 60G/5=12G each. It´s not that much for the trouble and the time.

When more people starting doing this the prices will drop.

BACK TO THE POST.
People are talking about legitimacy of selling spots or about advertising selling spots. I understand it´s not the OP case. They are simply forcing people to pay without telling them before join the party. So it´s bannable if reported.

Whatever, if they would ban me because I kick someone who wants to leech a spot I will request a refund and anet looses a lot of money, so will the other people in my guild if it happens.
I dont let us get blackmailed by people who want to grief our service.

They won’t. You’re offering a service and they refuse to pay, so there is no foul. If they are joining you based on your LFG advertisement, then they know the conditions of your group. That is not bannable, and the users above purporting that it is are simply spreading fallacies. The only time it is against the rules to kick someone from your group is in the case of griefing or scamming, where you scam a user out of money or inflict grief upon another. Honestly, the person trying to leech the run for free is more in the wrong there because they are trying to get a free run and are wasting your time!

Refund why? You are against the ToS… And what you will receive? Almost nothing, for a 3 million selling game they can refund your 60 bucks… Much less than your lawyer costs.

Please don´t try this “macho” pose with me. I´m trying to help you to not get banned giving you a suggestion. If you are SO SPECIAL to accept a sugestion… whell whatever. Not wasting time trying to help more.

@Rising
Kicking someone without offense or griefing is bannable, selling slots is not oficial and regulated by anet, at least for now. Instead of wasting time trying to argue, suggest anet to make selling spot official or at least a little rule in tos about this or at least a response from them about this. The way it is now will be bannable.

Snowflake exploiters got refunds too without lawyers, so why shouldnt we if what you say is true?

And like I said… 3 million of game copies. lots more with all those gold sellers… and you and your friends wanting refunds… Pffft… kitten please. How many friends do you have 1 million?

If you get banned and want a refund did you really think they will lose money? Really…

And you are being really stupid trying to argue with me instead of speaking directly to anet for a better solution for this problem.

If people get banned for silly reasons like kicking griefers, then yes they should get all money for the game and gems refunded.

Malediktus.9250:

Whatever, if they would ban me because I kick someone who wants to leech a spot I will request a refund and anet looses a lot of money, so will the other people in my guild if it happens.
I dont let us get blackmailed by people who want to grief our service.

if you have played more than a said amount of hours (I think it was 6?) you can’t get a refund.

Look at the snowflake exploiters, most of them played for months.

That being said, I seriously doubt anyone is getting banned for kicking griefers.

Malediktus.9250:

Look at the snowflake exploiters, most of them played for months.

That being said, I seriously doubt anyone is getting banned for kicking griefers.

okay. Try it. Don’t complain when you’re banned though. Selling spots is illegal. The only way you can get your money back is if something unjust happened to your account (take in mind that only a few snowflake exploiters got refunded because their cases were arguable). If you’re banned by a moderator it’s normally for a reason. When you rob a bank do you ask for a refund for the time spent in jail? Well the situation is the same here.
Also not paying is not griefing, but playing the game. You shouldn’t have to pay for a dungeon spot.

And you are being really immature trying to argue with ME instead of asking anet for something like an official response about this.

And like I said. With layer or not, breaking the tos or not, you and your friends will not make ANY difference. The rest of the world will keep spinning, more people will buy the game, the gold sellers will keep buying ACCs for botting.

Even they will not care, you demonstrate this telling about snowflakes refunds… If they care about refunding a bunch of players they will tell them to go to tribunal… So you are being stupid.

And even there will be people who will applaud anet if they ban people for selling spots.

Didi you really think that it´s ME that you need to argue and make MACHO POSE with? Seriously. It´s more like immature or ape like thing, not mature and human thing.

And why are you trying to argue with me? Are you a child? An adult will try to see if they have a problem and if they have try to solve this, not shout with the person who tells them that they can have the problem.

Anyway, this is my last post for you in this matter. If you want to discuss more about this you can use PM, this is not the subject of this post.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

nothing more to say about this

\thread

Yep I agree to Malediktus here. OP stated that the instance was already cleared and he joined and had to pay for the free dungeon. You don’t pay → you get kicked.

@Nozdrum
The instance was cleared BUT NO ONE tells OP that it´s a PAID PARTY, so EVEN IF selling slots and kicking non paying players was SOMETHING ENDORSED by ANET it´s griefing, scamming or whatever… it´s not a legal thing.

I don’t know what happened. OP was not very clear on what happended exactly. So I don’t think we can infer anything useful here. As it is now he joined a dungeon that was cleared and was kicked when he did not payed. That is all he wrote and if you assume that people are not evil just stupid I would say that OP just did not see the pay-comment when he joined. But this is only one way of seeing it. If you think he joined ( and no one told him anything ) he helped with the last boss and then got kicked because he didn’t pay, then I agree it is scamming.

But we just don’t know enough to judge this situation.
We don’t know how he found the party. gw2lfg ( with a pay-comment or not ) or map-chat ( with a pay-comment or not ). We don’t know if OP read everything. We don’t know when he got kicked ( immediately when he joined or at the end of the boss ) and what people were telling him exactly and when. We don’t know how OP reacted to anything ( was he angry and said stupid things – I don’t believe he did, just saying it might be possible )
So in the end there is not much to talk about other than the thread that malediktus linked.

Evolverzilla, maybe they did, but the OP only saw the “LF1M Dungeon Path X….” and instantly right clicked their name and pressed join without finishing reading the message, in which case it was a miss-understanding.

@Gluttony
Yes, it can be too. But he was talking about scamming and blackmailing. So the first inference is HE don´t know that was a paid run. So I treated like this. You got a good point.

But he can be trying to see if he can use the kick to ban people selling slot, so my point continues valid. If people selling slot for dungeon runs and kicking non paying customers don´t get an oficial response from ANET the problem will persist. Get ANET response and be happy.

And stop trying to argue with me like I care about this, I don´t give a flying kitten about people selling slots, I sold a lot of Droks and LA runs and some EotN runs too. So it´s not a problem for me.

You cannot get banned for kicking someone for whatever reason you feel like provided someone seconds it. You can get a warning if it is deemed to have rolled over into griefing. Griefing would equate to kicking someone who has put in some time and effort into the dungeon, for example kicking at last boss. Repeated warnings for a similar offence could result in a temporary ban.
In this instance the person joining the group had done nothing to progress the dungeon, he had put no work into getting to the last boss so the group can kick them as they are not griefing.

Selling these services is perfectly valid as stated ANet already.

The OP made an error and joined a paid run, he can be kicked without comeback.

Well I didn’t read all posts but even if they want one copper,they are all welcome to taste my sword for free

evolverzilla.2359:

They said that selling spots is not agains the rules, not kicking people for not paying…

You are really immature. End.

If someone is invited to the party, under the clear understanding that they are expected to pay for a service, the provider of said service can kick anyone who refuses to pay, because the people who refuse to pay are therefor griefing. It is griefing to knowingly join a party which has been clearly advertised is offering a PAID service, and then expect not to pay.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

evolverzilla.2359:

They said that selling spots is not agains the rules, not kicking people for not paying…

You are really immature. End.

If someone is invited to the party, under the clear understanding that they are expected to pay for a service, the provider of said service can kick anyone who refuses to pay, because the people who refuse to pay are therefor griefing. It is griefing to knowingly join a party which has been clearly advertised is offering a PAID service, and then expect not to pay.

The same occurs when you accept those players in your party without receiving your money. They can enter the dungeon and be part of your party. If you accept someone in your party and kick them then YOU are griefing them. Dont´accept people in your party when they don´t meet the requirements.

They can even say that they send the money or was traying to send the money when they are kicked.

And ANET said that selling spots is not ILEGAL they don´t said NOTHING ABOUT kicking players.

SO shut off this argument and ASK ANET for a response about this.

evolverzilla.2359:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

evolverzilla.2359:

They said that selling spots is not agains the rules, not kicking people for not paying…

You are really immature. End.

If someone is invited to the party, under the clear understanding that they are expected to pay for a service, the provider of said service can kick anyone who refuses to pay, because the people who refuse to pay are therefor griefing. It is griefing to knowingly join a party which has been clearly advertised is offering a PAID service, and then expect not to pay.

The same occurs when you accept those players in your party without receiving your money. They can enter the dungeon and be part of your party. If you accept someone in your party and kick them then YOU are griefing them. Dont´accept people in your party when they don´t meet the requirements.

They can even say that they send the money or was traying to send the money when they are kicked.

And ANET said that selling spots is not ILEGAL they don´t said NOTHING ABOUT kicking players.

SO shut off this argument and ASK ANET for a response about this.

It’s not griefing to kick someone who is intentionally griefing your party. Not paying for a service when you know that the party is providing one is griefing, period. The service providers can kick them for that, and it is allowed. ANet can’t stop me kicking someone from the party if they are deliberately wasting my time.

Your argument is nonsensical at best. You’re trying to imply that a provider of a service is griefing if they kick customers/clients who refuse to pay for the service. How does that even make sense? If I’m selling lemonade and someone sits in my store telling me I better give them lemonade for free or they’ll sue me, I’m going to get security to kick them out of my store. I’ve done nothing wrong, the people selling dungeon slots for money have done nothing wrong. The wrong comes from people asking for a SERVICE, and then expecting not to pay.

I can kick people from my party for whatever reason that I deem legitimate. If they haven’t been in the run for 99% of it, if before I even enter the dungeon they appear to be a total mong, if they try to force the party to do things that I don’t agree with, I will kick them, and I have every right to. If they haven’t contributed anything to the run, they are not being griefed. They have not been ‘robbed’ of anything, they did not work for the rewards they were trying to get.

Really mind blowing that you can even try defend people who knowingly join a party which has clearly stated they’re providing a PAID service, then expect to get the service for free and use blackmail to make sure they get it. Yes, it makes so much sense for people to be able to join a party which is selling dungeon runs and then say they’ll report the runners if they kick them for not paying. Pathetic.

blah, blah, blah… Read my posts, you are just trying to get my attention or trying to troll me. Posting this wall of text… i will not read…

I´m not defending something clearly wrong BUT PERMITTED FOR ANET, you can join a party and if you get kicked from it you can REPORT the player and DEMAND A BAN.

If I need to explain myself more I will just start imagine if people are being more stupid every year…

Like i said STOP ARGUING WITH ME ASK ANET FOR ANSWERS.

Hi everyone,

As explained in another topic (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080) selling dungeon spots is allowed.

On the other hand, if you are invited and THEN asked for the gold and kicked, that could be griefing. In any circumstance, please exercise extreme caution.

Thanks for your understanding.

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

As explained in another topic (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080) selling dungeon spots is allowed.

On the other hand, if you are invited and THEN asked for the gold and kicked, that could be griefing. In any circumstance, please exercise extreme caution.

Thanks for your understanding.

Just something more elaborate. Even IF you are advised about it being a paid party before accepting you in. It can be considered grefing IF you kick players that don´t pay?

(Yeah I imagine the answer of this, based on your response, but I imagine most people will try to exploit your answer…)

Adding more to help.

Before accpeting someone in your PAID party, PM the person first and be sure to receive your money, then you let the person join IN.

Is it that hard to understand something so simple?

You join a group knowing that it is a paid run (usually advertised so):
→you pay, it’s all good
→you don’t pay, you should get kicked (you were griefing the service providers and other customers)

Besides how can it be griefing kicking a player that doesn’t pay if that’s the terms of the group?
IRL example:
You go to a coffee shop or a restaurant and sit in a table not ordering a thing. The waiter or owner as the right to “kick” you out since you’re occupying space while not consuming.

It seems to me you’re the one trying to distort the mods words.
It’s a rather easy issue that can be solved by common sense alone and has enough background from GW1 for people to know how things work.

There’s an easy fix. If the group shouts “15g/person” and you don’t want to pay, just don’t join.

Hi everyone,

Before making any further statement, we are going to ask the team for their exact position on this matter. Hope we an provide you with further information soon.

Thanks for your understanding.

If you’re selling dungeon spots, you should clearly state your intentions in party chat or a whisper to the person and get a confirmation before clearing the dungeon with the player. This way, if you have to kick them, you’ve left a paper trail for ArenaNet to find. You want an acknowledgement from the player so they can’t claim they never saw it.

If you don’t bother mentioning it’s a paid run, and require them to kill stuff throughout the dungeon and then finally ask for payment just before the last boss, that would be considered griefing, since from ArenaNet’s point of view, there was no deal. Deals made out of game cannot be verified, and as such, do not exist.

If you clear the dungeon to the last boss youself, then invite other players without any notices (in-game) about being a paid run, it’s 50/50. If ArenaNet can tell when players joined, you’re fine. If not, it will look like you’re griefing.

@Flameseeker

It´s not ME you need to convince it´s wrong. If you can´t understand that will be better for you to just shut off. I´m trying to help people get your earned money and don´t get problems because of this. There will be a lot of things that people can do to simply SHUT the selling spots, because they dislike it, because they want to compete or just for trolling. Getting a OFICIAL POSITION from ANET will help you.

And it is just starting lookin like people are just trying to get some attention, because my purpose was WELL explained and they keep complaining to me.

@Moderator
Thank you.

Moderator’s sig made me die laughing.
More so than reading any of this thread.
In all honesty, an official response for kicking people in a group you guys are too sensitive. I understand this game is for teens and up. At some point during your gaming life, you will need to learn:
1. Not everyone is nice and wants to help you or be your friend.
2. You will not like everyone you meet. (Just like real life)
3. Learn from your experiences and move on, because you cannot change anyone but yourself.

Regardless of what the staff at Arena Net decides. Please start understanding that most companies would not even reply to threads like this. This is a great game, try to have fun and don’t take things people say or do on the internet so seriously.

@Fallon
It´s not just a sensitive thing…

Let´s make some examples.

I have a group where we can do CoF path 3 very, very easily. So we start selling spots. Another group wants to just shut our group off. So they can use LOTS of ways to exploit the way we sell and get one or two of us banned. Even if for a week. They will have a week without competition.

And if it start happening so often most groups will simply move on or even stop playing the game. So less people will do this type of work. there will be never a good competition and the prices will be ever high.

On the other side, with a more oficial response for Anet. More people will simply do more and more runs, we will have a something healthy competition. It will be some balance and more options. Even more dungeons runs.

So if it´s just common sense I can kill the kitten who shot my cat whitout being jailed. Yeah it´s excessive but commom sense never work well and leave lots of speaces to exploit.

evolverzilla.2359:

@Fallon
I have a group where we can do CoF path 3 very, very easily. So we start selling spots. Another group wants to just shut our group off. So they can use LOTS of ways to exploit the way we sell and get one or two of us banned. Even if for a week. They will have a week without competition.

I don’t understand. I’ll try to sum up why I don’t understand what you are saying.
Guild A sells spots for CoF. Guild B also sells spot for CoF.
Guild B wants to get Guild A’s customers. So they plan on getting Guild A banned.

My problem is : how can they get them banned ?

Did you read any post? For your post i imagine not… Read first then auto-answer your question.

So as Anet says if I don’t remember wrong: Player A doesn’t have more time buys gems convert golds and get what they want that way; so Players B,C,D,E,F make dungeons and sell spots for tokens Player A pays and gets that’s ok it’s good thing to make game enjoyable that kind of gamers but my fear is not this: What happens when you run a dungeon and kicked at last without warning.How will people prove anything? Do we have to take screenshots every phase of every dungeon run? and like what they say “there is always one” this will happen and some people will get hurt.My point is what to do step by step in this cases that someone should explain gamers and that’s Anet.

I think it would depend on when they ask for the money.

If the group is up-front about it, meaning that they advertise in Lion’s Arch or the zone of that instance of an open spot, then at least as a dungeon runner or prospective customer, you can make logical decisions. For example: WTS Arah P4 completion! At last boss! 15g OBO! Get your Dungeon Master title today! Then that could be okay assuming that selling party spots is considered okay by ArenaNet.

However, if the group demands money after you’ve been invited to the group, then that could be a time for questioning.

Lastly, if this group demands money just before you get to the last boss (meaning: you have completed some content to reach that point), then you could report them on two accounts: Scamming and Griefing. Scamming since the situation involves money, and Griefing since you were being used to reach a certain point only to find out that your party doesn’t need you anymore.

Ari Kagura.9182:

I think it would depend on when they ask for the money.

If the group is up-front about it, meaning that they advertise in Lion’s Arch or the zone of that instance of an open spot, then at least as a dungeon runner or prospective customer, you can make logical decisions. For example: WTS Arah P4 completion! At last boss! 15g OBO! Get your Dungeon Master title today! Then that could be okay assuming that selling party spots is considered okay by ArenaNet.

However, if the group demands money after you’ve been invited to the group, then that could be a time for questioning.

Lastly, if this group demands money just before you get to the last boss (meaning: you have completed some content to reach that point), then you could report them on two accounts: Scamming and Griefing. Scamming since the situation involves money, and Griefing since you were being used to reach a certain point only to find out that your party doesn’t need you anymore.

Finally some use of long forgotten common sense.

It’s rather obvious how things work if people don’t try to distort the issue.
People on gw1 had to deal with scammers, since there was no kick function, and the hurt part would be almost always the service provider, by letting that person get their free run so it wouldn’t lose the rest of the costumers.
In gw2 there’s a “dungeon owner” and a kick function. You either pay or get kicked, and if you’re funny and try to kick the service provider you’re just an kitten for kicking the whole team out.

Besides i bet whatever we do gets recorded somewhere. It would be “easy” if anet could check the records and see who’s at fault, given that the team has time and resources to do so.

Malediktus.9250:

My guild does it this way: 5 guildies go in, before endboss 4 leave and we sell the spots for 15g each. Endboss get killed and the 4x 15g get split equally to all 5 people from guild. So no kicking innocent people involved.

I have a question. Ignoring that you were adamantly against selling spots, and flopped to the profit bandwagon after finding out you were wrong for singling out the people doing it; how do you manage to get past the ‘last player gets kicked from dungeon if all the other members leave’?

The game, for some odd reason, recognizes solo began instances, and group began instances differently. If you start a dungeon without a party, then invite someone to party, you’re kicked. Likewise (from my experience) if you start a dungeon with a group, and the rest leave, you are also kicked.

Malediktus.9250:

Typically its a guild run. 4 people leave at endboss to invite 4 costumers. Money gets divided by 5 for everyone who did the run.

I dont get it , so you have someone solo or the 4 other people have to kill the boss with you? because i surly wouldn’t pay money to have to kill the end boss with you when im a paying customer , and if that is the case do they get upset if you wipe. that’s like buying a big mac and having to make it behind the counter as well with a chance of an old pattie

evolverzilla.2359:

Did you read any post? For your post i imagine not… Read first then auto-answer your question.

I just wanted to know how you think someone can get other people banned.

Booler.6598:

I dont get it , so you have someone solo or the 4 other people have to kill the boss with you? because i surly wouldn’t pay money to have to kill the end boss with you when im a paying customer , and if that is the case do they get upset if you wipe. that’s like buying a big mac and having to make it behind the counter as well with a chance of an old pattie

In case of Arah 4, you pay 15g because they killed Simin for you. The end boss is trivial.

As an example, I managed to complete that path after 3 runs totaling 12 hours of tries. If all I cared was to achieve completion, it’d have been more efficient to pay 15g, since 15/12 = 1.25 and I can gain more than 1.25 gold per hour when not wiping on Simin.

Sarcasmic.6741:

Malediktus.9250:

My guild does it this way: 5 guildies go in, before endboss 4 leave and we sell the spots for 15g each. Endboss get killed and the 4x 15g get split equally to all 5 people from guild. So no kicking innocent people involved.

I have a question. Ignoring that you were adamantly against selling spots, and flopped to the profit bandwagon after finding out you were wrong for singling out the people doing it; how do you manage to get past the ‘last player gets kicked from dungeon if all the other members leave’?

The game, for some odd reason, recognizes solo began instances, and group began instances differently. If you start a dungeon without a party, then invite someone to party, you’re kicked. Likewise (from my experience) if you start a dungeon with a group, and the rest leave, you are also kicked.

Why should I leave the business to other people if I can do it myself and make nice profits while doing it. It would be nice if it would be fixed, but as long as it works I will probably do it.