Guild Wars 2

We got Guardian builds. Decided to use my newly updated spread sheet to put some of the disparate guardian builds through the paces. I’m assuming Sword/Focus for all of these. I am going to assume 5 boons for every build that gets a bonus per boon. Not assuming Unscathed Contender because it’s not at all reliable.

Assumptions:

Banner of Disc
Banner of Strength
Fury
25 Might
25 Vuln
10% Sigil
10% Dungeon Potion
Scholar Runes (exception below)

Define HC 10/30/0/5/25

Sweet and Spicey with Bloodlust Sigil: 19,698

Brazil the Hue Old: 0/30/0/30/10

Sweet and Spicey with Bloodlust: 17,055

Brazil the New: 10/30/0/10/20

Sweet and Spicey with Bloodlust: 18,760

Dub (Ranger Runes instead of Scholar): 10/25/0/25/10

Sweet and Spicey with Perception: 18,050

Dub (Scholar): 10/25/0/25/10

Sweet and Spicey with Perception: 17,989

Some conclusions:

For organized groups, Define’s build provides superior DPS. The difference between it and Brazil’s build is how valuable you rate shout cool downs. If that is worth 5% dps, then use Brazil’s. Otherwise, Define’s build has the highest DPS of the builds here without sacrificing much at all to do it which makes it, in my opinion, the best build to use in organized groups for general dungeon speed clears.

For a PUG or less organized groups, Brazil’s old build provides maximum utility with Pure of Voice and Empowering Might. For PUGs, I see these two traits being extremely beneficial even at the cost of 14% DPS.

Incidentally, for PUGs in dungeons where condition removal isn’t important, Dub’s Ranger rune build is actually quite strong. It gets the benefit of Empowering Might (since PUGS can’t usually cap 25 Might) and Shout cd and only sacrifices 8% DPS from Define’s build. If you know conditions won’t be a huge problem this is almost certainly the build to PUG with. Also, it just go happens that it will also maximize reflects (since RHS doesn’t boost reflects) so if you are solo’ing lupicus or doing arah in a group with no Mesmer this is probably the most viable for that. Lastly, This build might be the best build if you use Greatsword as a main weapon or on swap since it doesn’t suffer as large an efficiency drop off when it loses RHS.

Spreadsheet link

You don’t have to add exactly same damage modifiers like scholar runes, potions, sigils and vulnerability, it’s reduntant for comparison.

Slightly offtopic:
Call it dislike towards certain guild but since when 10/30/0/5/25 is “their” build? Did I miss a memo?

Its not redundant. The numbers skew more the more buffs you add. Its why with less buffs necro dps looks pretty good compared to other classes.

Can you check the GS build? 20/25/0/5/20

spoj.9672:

Its not redundant. The numbers skew more the more buffs you add. Its why with less buffs necro looks pretty good compared to other classes.

Can you check the GS build? 20/25/0/5/20

It is redundant because every build uses them.

Thank you for the comparison, which is quite nice. Just a short question, did you regard Elusive Power as 0, since it’s not truly reliable, or did it get some other factor in the builds which have it?

Not sure how 10/25/0/25/10 is “my build”.
I’m changing my build based on the content and use whatever fits best to the situation.
10/25/0/25/10 is what i use for heavily dodge-reliant content that either favours long consecration durations or allows to keep up aegis. Or in parties who lack of consistent might stacking.
Furthermore, sword atoattacks are inferier to a proper rotation which will only have about 60% sword uptime (more like 0-40% in optimized groups), depending on the fight duration.

Spoj, I can do the gs build but remember effective power is only useful for comparing two builds using the same weapon to each other. So if you want valuable info give me two gs builds you’d like to compare.

Haviz, as I understand it, the first person to popularize the heavy virtues guardian was Nikaido whose build had 30 in Virtues I think. HC published one with 25/5 Virtues/Honor split and Brazil 20/10. I don’t know who originally thought of the concept, I only know the first time I saw them offered to the community. If someone created these ideas independently first and kept them to themselves, how should I know it?

CptAurellian.9537:

Thank you for the comparison, which is quite nice. Just a short question, did you regard Elusive Power as 0, since it’s not truly reliable, or did it get some other factor in the builds which have it?

I factored it in at it’s full value, just like I factored in Scholar Runes at full uptime.

Dub: I made it your build because it was quite unique and the Ranger runes are a true innovation. I don’t get why you would take offense to it; I don’t think I said you ALWAYS use it in every scenario.

Isn’t it funny how Haviz came down on me for giving HC credit for one of the build, presumably because he feels they dont deserve it, and Dub is bothered by my giving him credit for his build. Can’t win with you guys, can I?

I’m happy to take full credit for all of the above builds, Nike.

Dub could be anything but his honesty & down to earth is his trademark. I remember way back when Dub attempted to solo Lupi with a guardian & we’ve talked about the 10/25/0/25/10 in the Guardian sub forum. Someone has used that build before that.
Nike, if you have time & inclination, could you check these builds for me against “Dub” build: 10/30/10/10/10 and 10/30/0/20/10. The 1st one could get close to 100% crit chance & 100% crit damage w/ proper buff. Same usage but I just couldn’t let the 1H Sword goes w/o fightting.
Thank you.

I don’t take any offense to it, it just wasn’t me who came up with that build.
The credit has to go to Norjena out of german forum who actually submitted me some initial knowledge and ideas about guardian builds, including his suggestion of 10/25/0/25/10 for a lazy lupicus solo.
Anyway: I’m currently using 10/25/0/10/25 for optimized groups in most content, aswell as solo if unscathed contender can be kept up to be more valuable with virtues 25 trait than elusive power.

Unquestionable this is a very nice comparison. Unfortunately it is even in assumed optimal circumstances (except Unscathed Contender) a bit from accurate. RHS for example is usually a pretty wasted trait.

I’m against making builds someone’s, it’s not trademarked. There is only very limited amount of possible decent builds.

I know that Nikaido first posted very similiar build but there was also a discussion on guardian subforum about guardian dungeon builds where few people stated about this build before HC made a vid (which I just found out).

Back on topic, all of this build should be changed appropriately to the situation. There’s no the one best build. Personally, I’ve been using heavy virtues build in fotm because it gives more flexibilty than pure of voice builds – you can even trait tomes which has certain use.

SkyChef.5432:

Dub could be anything but his honesty & down to earth is his trademark. I remember way back when Dub attempted to solo Lupi with a guardian & we’ve talked about the 10/25/0/25/10 in the Guardian sub forum. Someone has used that build before that.
Nike, if you have time & inclination, could you check these builds for me against “Dub” build: 10/30/10/10/10 and 10/30/0/20/10. The 1st one could get close to 100% crit chance & 100% crit damage w/ proper buff. Same usage but I just couldn’t let the 1H Sword goes w/o fightting.
Thank you.

10/30/10/10/10 I don’t know if you wanted Ranger runes or Scholar so here is both. The 20 in honor build I wont bother with because the dps would be a good bit less. Honor only seems worth it at 5 and 25 breakpoints.

10/30/10/10/10

Scholar with Bloodlust and Sweet and Spicey: 19,797
Ranger with Bloodlust and SnS: 19318

Ranger’s weakness is that with RHS and Retributive armor you exceed 100% crit chance so there are some wasted stats.

However, when you’re in GS…

Scholar: 17916
Ranger: 18,919

So which version you use depends on which weapon set you spend the most time in. With those traits, Ranger seems better for a 50/50 split but if you camp Sword/Focus (like I tend to do) Scholar would be better.

haviz.1340:

Back on topic, all of this build should be changed appropriately to the situation. There’s no the one best build. Personally, I’ve been using heavy virtues build in fotm because it gives more flexibilty than pure of voice builds – you can even trait tomes which has certain use.

Agreed there is no one best build for all circumstances. I agree about virtues in fractals, since there is very little condition damage in fractals it is a lot of overkill to use PoV.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Agreed there is no one best build for all circumstances. I agree about virtues in fractals, since there is very little condition damage in fractals it is a lot of overkill to use PoV.

If you pick at least 20 points in there, there are 4 usable traits beside condition removal and consecration recharge. The dps difference of few percents doesn’t matter that much if you’re not speedrunning.

10/30/0/0/30 is the way to go when you have a set group that has reliable speedkills. I ended up using that when my regular group could reliably kill lupicus in a manner that guaranteed I’d never need the vigor. The 30 in virtues lets you get unscathed contender without having to drop absolute resolution and master of consecrations.

This isn’t workable in a group that doesn’t reliably output high dps or pugs though. In which case either 10/25/0/10/25 or 10/30/0/10/20 are fine. Both of these set are great if you hate retraiting all the time depending on the group you get too.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

CptAurellian.9537:

Thank you for the comparison, which is quite nice. Just a short question, did you regard Elusive Power as 0, since it’s not truly reliable, or did it get some other factor in the builds which have it?

I factored it in at it’s full value, just like I factored in Scholar Runes at full uptime.

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification. So the Honor builds are somewhat biased towards higher effectiveness, which is fine to me.

Can we take a look at the dps for a 10/30/30/0/0 built please ?
Just for academic sake even though i think not a lot of people will use it.
I appreciate the work you provided here

Sutcliffe.5491:

Can we take a look at the dps for a 10/30/30/0/0 built please ?
Just for academic sake even though i think not a lot of people will use it.
I appreciate the work you provided here

No.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Sutcliffe.5491:

Can we take a look at the dps for a 10/30/30/0/0 built please ?
Just for academic sake even though i think not a lot of people will use it.
I appreciate the work you provided here

No.

T.T
Please do it for me. I am really interested to know how high the dps of this 10/30/30/0/0 built will be.

Sutcliffe.5491:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Sutcliffe.5491:

Can we take a look at the dps for a 10/30/30/0/0 built please ?
Just for academic sake even though i think not a lot of people will use it.
I appreciate the work you provided here

No.

T.T
Please do it for me. I am really interested to know how high the dps of this 10/30/30/0/0 built will be.

No.

The Brazil has spoken.

i am quite intrigued to try to 25+ Virtues builds.

@Dub and others – is RHS really a waste of a trait most of the time? i’ve just gotten used to going full Radiance most of the time now.

It’s bad for what Dub does.

akamon.2769:

The Brazil has spoken.

i am quite intrigued to try to 25+ Virtues builds.

@Dub and others – is RHS really a waste of a trait most of the time? i’ve just gotten used to going full Radiance most of the time now.

I find 10/30/0/5/25 to be the best all around build. It’s what I use for pretty much everything now. It’s worth a try.

These numbers are outrageously inflated. I’m not even really sure what to say about it. 10/30/0/5/25 isn’t going to be anywhere near the highest possible DPS you can get in an optimized setting.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

These numbers are outrageously inflated. I’m not even really sure what to say about it. 10/30/0/5/25 isn’t going to be anywhere near the highest possible DPS you can get in an optimized setting.

It’s not dps but something called effective power. Warrior builds have those numbers even higher.

10/30/0/5/25 is probably not he best build since you lack critical damage from valour while getting only ~5% damage modifier (excluded unscathed contender), but this build (and the one with 30 in virtues) has more utility. There are few decent interchangeable traits, depending on the situation.

edit: ups

haviz.1340:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

These numbers are outrageously inflated. I’m not even really sure what to say about it. 10/30/0/5/25 isn’t going to be anywhere near the highest possible DPS you can get in an optimized setting.

It’s not dps but something called effective power. Warrior builds have those numbers even higher.

10/30/0/5/25 is probably not he best build since you lack critical damage from honour while getting only ~5% damage modifier (excluded unscathed contender), but this build (and the one with 30 in virtues) has more utility. There are few decent interchangeable traits, depending on the situation.

*Valour?

akamon.2769:

The Brazil has spoken.

i am quite intrigued to try to 25+ Virtues builds.

@Dub and others – is RHS really a waste of a trait most of the time? i’ve just gotten used to going full Radiance most of the time now.

If you’re lazy and stick to sword most of the time, RHS is a good choice for you.
If you aren’t lazy and do a proper rotation instead, RHS is usually wasted.

Dub.1273:

akamon.2769:

The Brazil has spoken.

i am quite intrigued to try to 25+ Virtues builds.

@Dub and others – is RHS really a waste of a trait most of the time? i’ve just gotten used to going full Radiance most of the time now.

If you’re lazy and stick to sword most of the time, RHS is a good choice for you.
If you aren’t lazy and do a proper rotation instead, RHS is usually wasted.

May i know the proper rotation you are speaking of ? I assume it uses gs and sword. Is it this rotation whirling wraith /symbol/auto attack /whirling wraith(total 14s in gs)/swap to sword auto attack (8s) then swap back to gs and repeat again?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASRlYg6C33xMEfIFSWhC0mBBBQ1HiHMFYkHB-jgxAY/AR+BoIQJvioxWcLiGrylIqWKgIWGB-e

What about this? 15/25/0/20/10 Hammer/GS.

Been running it for a few weeks now, seems to outdps sword too (Taking 0/30/0/30/10) in mind

Sutcliffe.5491:

Dub.1273:

akamon.2769:

The Brazil has spoken.

i am quite intrigued to try to 25+ Virtues builds.

@Dub and others – is RHS really a waste of a trait most of the time? i’ve just gotten used to going full Radiance most of the time now.

If you’re lazy and stick to sword most of the time, RHS is a good choice for you.
If you aren’t lazy and do a proper rotation instead, RHS is usually wasted.

May i know the proper rotation you are speaking of ? I assume it uses gs and sword. Is it this rotation whirling wraith /symbol/auto attack /whirling wraith(total 14s in gs)/swap to sword auto attack (8s) then swap back to gs and repeat again?

Starting with GS: Whirling Wrath, Symbol, Leap of Faith, Binding Blades, 1 1, Whirling Wrath, swap, 1 1, RoJ, 111111 for 10 seconds (4 seconds after weaponswap recharged), starting with GS again with a simply altered rotation (2x whirling wrath, then binding blades, then swap).

xsquared.1926:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASRlYg6C33xMEfIFSWhC0mBBBQ1HiHMFYkHB-jgxAY/AR+BoIQJvioxWcLiGrylIqWKgIWGB-e

What about this? 15/25/0/20/10 Hammer/GS.

Been running it for a few weeks now, seems to outdps sword too (Taking 0/30/0/30/10) in mind

Effective Power is only useful for comparing builds using the same weapon and same profesion, in this case I compared Sword Focus.

Also, hammer builds derive a significant portion of their damage from symbols which I means you’re spending trait points for dps that won’t necessarily show up in effective power.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

xsquared.1926:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASRlYg6C33xMEfIFSWhC0mBBBQ1HiHMFYkHB-jgxAY/AR+BoIQJvioxWcLiGrylIqWKgIWGB-e

What about this? 15/25/0/20/10 Hammer/GS.

Been running it for a few weeks now, seems to outdps sword too (Taking 0/30/0/30/10) in mind

Effective Power is only useful for comparing builds using the same weapon and same profesion, in this case I compared Sword Focus.

Also, hammer builds derive a significant portion of their damage from symbols which I means you’re spending trait points for dps that won’t necessarily show up in effective power.

Ah, yes that is correct. Still, the final hit can land over 25k under good conditions, i should have a screenshot on my home rig doing 22k including symbol pulses. Perhaps hammer will be viable once again compared to the almighty sword? especially with 15 zeal and 25 radiance for the perma vuln and damage

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

These numbers are outrageously inflated. I’m not even really sure what to say about it. 10/30/0/5/25 isn’t going to be anywhere near the highest possible DPS you can get in an optimized setting.

Inflated how? They are Effective Power not dps.

And this isn’t a kitten ing contest about who can create the build with the highest effective power, it’s about who can create a functional build that maximizes Guardian utility AND have as high an EP as possible. Obviously a build that has 10 in Valor will have a higher EP than one with 10 in Virtues, but presumably the whole reason to bring a guardian in the first place is due to Master of Consecration.

How would 10/25/0/10/25 compare to 20/25/0/5/20. Both using GS.

xsquared.1926:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASRlYg6C33xMEfIFSWhC0mBBBQ1HiHMFYkHB-jgxAY/AR+BoIQJvioxWcLiGrylIqWKgIWGB-e

What about this? 15/25/0/20/10 Hammer/GS.

Been running it for a few weeks now, seems to outdps sword too (Taking 0/30/0/30/10) in mind

That’s what I’m running (except with Master of Consecrations over Unscathed Contender.

Whether it outdpses a sword build or not, it’s close and you get the additional benefit of being able to might stack your party through blast finishers in fire fields. You just have to be careful not to blast through the symbol instead.

spoj.9672:

How would 10/25/0/10/25 compare to 20/25/0/5/20. Both using GS.

I’ll do the numbers this afternoon, but my guess is the 20 power one would be around 3% more DPS. since they both get 5% damage boosts, but the 20 power one has 100 extra power.

The problem I have with Greatsword is that it’s not actually good at bursting. The autoattack is bad, Whirling Wrath is bad, Binding Blades is bad as a DoT, and the Symbol isn’t even that great. You’ll also have to take a Perception Sigil, so you would really be better off just using Sword with Bloodlust stacks and making sure you crit 100% of the time. Using a rotation on Guardian between Greatsword and Sword means that you’ll be lowering your DPS while you think you are bursting.

As I mentioned, perception and no RHS is better for Dub. Probably not many other people. Guard as primary reflect nuker and/or solo lupicus.

Yeah I just find sword unbelievably boring though. The numbers dont even look impressive with sword auto. Atleast with GS i can press 5 buttons for dps!

It’s also overall better than RHS + Bloodlust (under the assumption of an 10/x/0/x/25 build). And even with RHS and double sigil on sword focus, a rotation is even better when gs has no x% sigil.

Any build that involves GS is not better than only using Sword.

Oh, on a side note: There actually is a critchance cap below 100%. With assassin armor, ranger runes, 25 perception stacks, fury and some precision infusions i’m at 101% critchance (S/F, 100% with GS) in the hero panel. Nevertheless i get some non-crits.

#Assassin’sArmor

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Any build that involves GS is not better than only using Sword.

But only because you aren’t able to concentrate enough for so many button presses

Yeah its capped at like 99%.

Dub.1273:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Any build that involves GS is not better than only using Sword.

But only because you aren’t able to concentrate enough for so many button presses

You mean Skill Clicks.

Yeah obviously.

spoj.9672:

Yeah I just find sword unbelievably boring though. The numbers dont even look impressive with sword auto. Atleast with GS i can press 5 buttons for dps!

I dunno, 6k, 6k, 5kx3 sword auto chain looks good to me.

spoj.9672:

How would 10/25/0/10/25 compare to 20/25/0/5/20. Both using GS.

10/25: (5 boons)

Sweet and Spicey with Perception stacks: 18,020

20/25:

Sweet and Spicey with Perception stacks: 18,551

So 2.9% more dps. with 20/25, almost exactly what I figured which means one thing: I’ve been playing spreadsheet wars 2 far too long.