Guild Wars 2

So I just had 3 people enter my Arah and finished the dungeon without paying me. I couldn’t obvious kick them due to the new kicking system. I was a sitting duck while they destroyed the instance and finished it.

They left as soon as they finished it and collected their free reward.

So. Where can I submit my report to a GM?

Sorry to hear it…

In the future, maybe consider making a couple of F2P slots as place holders. Log em out as people join and after they pay to free up paying slots.

I just thought it was safer because I heard they increased GM activity. But there’s no way to contact them! Atleast that I know of.

if you have screenshots or even better video, you can submit them.

might want to have friends/guildies be placeholders while you’re getting people so that doesn’t happen next time.

Submit them to? Their exploits email? I’m afraid that wont do anything…..

And just yesterday I saw a live GM at Frostgorge sound, if only I knew :P

All you can do is submit and report them. If you don’t even do that, then you can expect absolutely nothing. If you report them, then at least there’s a possibility that they’ll be dealt with.

Again, just play it smarter next time and have place holders who leave as you get additional buyers.

Yeah… but I only have a printscreen, those 3 stopped representing their guild before doing this and immediately blocked me and the other guy as joined, they clearly did this before.

I have them added and nametagged but there’s not much I can do now.

This post is not much to seek justice for myself (it was just an Arah run) but to prevent it for others seeing as those 3 are clearly frequently doing this…

What are going to report them for? You posted to LFG, they joined, and you all finished the dungeon. Is that not exactly what the group finder is for?

The raids announcement sure brings all the PHIWs to the yard

cthaeh.2168:

What are going to report them for? You posted to LFG, they joined, and you all finished the dungeon. Is that not exactly what the group finder is for?

LFG abuse for stealing an instance of someone’s who’s selling. While it hasn’t happened often, Anet does ban for it.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

This post is not much to seek justice for myself (it was just an Arah run) but to prevent it for others seeing as those 3 are clearly frequently doing this…

As far as I know, in 3 years, this behavior has never been punished. That’s why there are people “frequently doing this.”

What about try this: report and add these people to your friends/blocked list and monitor if anything is ever done.

There’s really not much you can do. Instance selling is one of those grey areas of customer support so even if you have all your evidence in order it is unlikely anything will happen to the scammers.

Your best defense is being proactive about your sales and use place holders and requiring payment upfront.

Path selling is not forbidden, but path selling is not supported by GMs. Period. Feel lucky they don’t ban it entirely.

Rauderi.8706:

Path selling is not forbidden, but path selling is not supported by GMs. Period. Feel lucky they don’t ban it entirely.

It’s still griefing whether OP was selling or not:

if you were in a normal dungeon party, had some group members leave, posted on LFG for replacements, and promptly had 3 people steal your instance, that’s griefing. This is no different. That the OP was selling is irrelevant.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Rauderi.8706:

Path selling is not forbidden, but path selling is not supported by GMs. Period. Feel lucky they don’t ban it entirely.

It’s still griefing whether OP was selling or not:

if you were in a normal dungeon party, had some group members leave, posted on LFG for replacements, and promptly had 3 people steal your instance, that’s griefing. This is no different. That the OP was selling is irrelevant.

From what I can gather from the OP, he wasn’t kicked. He was simply not paid once the dungeon was finished. I’ve played enough MMO’s to know if a player isn’t exploiting the game, they don’t tend to get banned for this sort of thing, especially if the game isn’t designed to support it. It’s crap that people get treated poorly but that’s not a bannable offense.

Simple solution: Find two trustworthy people willing to sit in your party while you attempt to sell your dungeon path. That way, you can kick them if they don’t pay up.

Still, I don’t endorse dungeon/fractal selling (especially selling high level fractals). But there’s no way to punish those responsible if you do get scammed. Sell at your own risk etc.

@Obtena

If it’s not a bannable offense, then:

1st: What constitutes LFG Abuse in the report section? Is it not griefing?

2nd: What would happen if everyone was given green light to do this? Do you really think there would be no punishment if this run wild and free?

I have integrity and as such I wouldn’t ever do this to anyone else, but I can see weaker players who are victim of this succumbing to the temptation to revenge by repeating the offense themselves to others, “in order to regain what was lost”. Psychology 101.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

So I just had 3 people enter my Arah and finished the dungeon without paying me. I couldn’t obvious kick them due to the new kicking system. I was a sitting duck while they destroyed the instance and finished it.

They left as soon as they finished it and collected their free reward.

So. Where can I submit my report to a GM?

Report them for what exactly and precisely ? I do not recall anything whatsoever in either TOS or EULA about selling / buying dungeon completion paths.

Unless they were vulgar / abusive to you while doing so, there is nothing for you to report them about. They did not hack anything, they did not break any of the rules in the agreements, they did not bug / exploit anything, and they did not harass you since it was not persistent behavior but a single occurance. Doesnt matter if they have or have not done it with other players, unless you all come together and document it / prove it to a-net, then you can report it to a-net for harassment as it is a proven consistent and persistent harmful behavior to playerbase at large.

Personally, I had opposite happen to me, speed ran fractals to perfection only to get booted at last boss, next thing I see is the group selling it in LFG. I think that is far more of a problem then what you experienced. I did not report them as it is problematic and I felt it would have been just additional waste of my time.

Also, while yours might have been an honest effort etc., frankly speaking I think selling dungeon paths is a far worse problem then pulling a fast one on the sellers.

I don’t see how it’s bannable; it’s not exploiting the game and while it’s a terrible thing to do to someone, they didn’t abuse you verbally or kick you or anything like that; you just didn’t get paid. I don’t know what your claim for a punishment should be. Nothing really stops it but I don’t think anything actually should; it’s not an in-game supported way for you to make money, just like selling through mail isn’t either.

Did they deliberately and in full knowledge take the instance and complete the path ignoring the wishes of the lfg poster? Thats griefing him!!!! Which falls under LFG abuse, and if anet decides to ban for that offense, then it can be bannable.

Was it behaviour that can be reported and punished? Yes. Will anet prioritize it over other things? Idk, report it and find out.

Obtena.7952:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Rauderi.8706:

Path selling is not forbidden, but path selling is not supported by GMs. Period. Feel lucky they don’t ban it entirely.

It’s still griefing whether OP was selling or not:

if you were in a normal dungeon party, had some group members leave, posted on LFG for replacements, and promptly had 3 people steal your instance, that’s griefing. This is no different. That the OP was selling is irrelevant.

From what I can gather from the OP, he wasn’t kicked. He was simply not paid once the dungeon was finished. I’ve played enough MMO’s to know if a player isn’t exploiting the game, they don’t tend to get banned for this sort of thing, especially if the game isn’t designed to support it. It’s crap that people get treated poorly but that’s not a bannable offense.

You’re right… seems OP wasn’t kicked. That’s a new one! Considering how little Anet cares about obvious and clear griefing, this isn’t going to get any attention at all. Neat trick actually.

I guess, make a few F2P alts to hold slots?

just don’t get greedy. 2 slots are max you can safely sell, with the other 2 being placeholder so that you don’t get kicked.

September 2015. People still don’t use fillers.

September 2015. People still have to use fillers because Anet doesn’t care about scammers…

Could you take advantage of the Free Accounts?
Just create 2 accounts that sit with you in your dungeon that you are trying to sell.

lol find this funny.
you are angry that some one exploited you because you where exploiting the game system :P

oooh the irony

edit:
scamming is ofcouse not ok and should result in instant ban, repeated offense permaban.
but so should exploiters ^^

My friend used to get me to sit in the party while he got the first 3 invites and they payed then left for the 5th. Can be helpful so you at least get something to have a friend to help.

Erebus.7568:

lol find this funny.
you are angry that some one exploited you because you where exploiting the game system :P

oooh the irony

edit:
scamming is ofcouse not ok and should result in instant ban, repeated offense permaban.
but so should exploiters ^^

And where was I exploiting? Please explain.

I guess the flow of PHIWs from General Discussion never stops now that raids were announced.

Dungeon selling is something anet tolerates, hence their lack of involvement unless map breaking/exploits is used ^^

Not using fillers and complaining is basically like going at night in a shady neighbourhood then complain you got robbed :P
I mean yes, you are a victim but you could have prevented it
I mean since you knew that it’s something that happens quite often ^^

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Erebus.7568:

lol find this funny.
you are angry that some one exploited you because you where exploiting the game system :P

oooh the irony

edit:
scamming is ofcouse not ok and should result in instant ban, repeated offense permaban.
but so should exploiters ^^

And where was I exploiting? Please explain.

I guess the flow of PHIWs from General Discussion never stops now that raids were announced.

Err, you might want to just disregard him, his use of the word exploit is not quite on-point (see his other threads).

While I don’t agree with instance selling, I don’t see it as an exploit since the game allows for hot joins of an instance even after it’s created. Instance selling would instead fall under ‘not being used as intended’.

Back on topic though…

Safety nets. There are a handful of players that are out there to cause chaos. Even though you can’t necessarily full-proof your selling system I’d argue that the scammers would be a lot less willing to go through all the effort of bypassing your safety nets if there’s another selling who is much more easily scammed.

robertul.3679:

is basically like going at night in a shady neighbourhood then complain you got robbed :P

If I’m not mistaken, even if I’m dumb and robbed in a shady neighbourhood there would be atleast an attempt at restoring justice, unlike here

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

robertul.3679:

is basically like going at night in a shady neighbourhood then complain you got robbed :P

If I’m not mistaken, even if I’m dumb and robbed in a shady neighbourhood there would be atleast an attempt at restoring justice, unlike here

Just redundant paperwork
Would it make you feel better if arena net representative came here and say “we look into it?”
Cuz that’s what you would get from cops too ^^ :P

Actually it would. It would atleast mean they read this junk trashcan forum

SlyDevil.3952:

Did they deliberately and in full knowledge take the instance and complete the path ignoring the wishes of the lfg poster? Thats griefing him!!!! Which falls under LFG abuse, and if anet decides to ban for that offense, then it can be bannable.

Was it behaviour that can be reported and punished? Yes. Will anet prioritize it over other things? Idk, report it and find out.

I’m not discouraging reporting the behaviour but I think it’s safe to say many of us have played MMO’s for a few years … if you have, you have a pretty good idea of what’s going to happen here.

Quickfoot, I have been summoned here upon hearing the words “instance”, “selling” and “griefing”.

While there are no direct solutions to your problems, here’s what I usually do :
- submit a support ticket hoping I get a decent GM (and not this one).
- send a personal message to Chris Cleary (head of security) with my evidence attached.
- make a youtube video and dedicated topic to flame the guys on forums. This attracts moderator/gm attention and will get you an infraction on the forums but might get them banned. It’s called gambling.
- rewatch my older video where I serve justice to them griefers. It feels good

That’s it, I’m flying away now before I get infracted :p

Anet has said before that dungeon selling is something they don’t support and is at your own risk. Unless they were abusing you or some other reportable offense there isn’t much in the way of recompense you can get

It is not a punishable offense because they did not kick you but finished the dungeon. You are not obligated the follow the lfg description, so if they just finish your dungeon without kicking you, you are out of luck.

Enko.6123:

might want to have friends/guildies be placeholders while you’re getting people so that doesn’t happen next time.

Yeah, I’ve been a place holder for a few friends before.

If you want to make money by selling dungeon slots, that’s your business and not anets. It’s not their job to ensure you get paid. you need to take the steps to ensure that not them. LFG was designed by anet to make finding dungeon groups easier – not as a gold making tool. It sucks that ppl take advantage of it but there’s nothing illegal about it. I’ve posted several lfgs for experienced 80 zerkers and often get ppl who don’t fit the bill. Should I have anet punish them for being dishonest?

Yes. Yes you should.

Enaretos.8079:

Quickfoot, I have been summoned here upon hearing the words “instance”, “selling” and “griefing”.

While there are no direct solutions to your problems, here’s what I usually do :
- submit a support ticket hoping I get a decent GM (and not this one).
- send a personal message to Chris Cleary (head of security) with my evidence attached.
- make a youtube video and dedicated topic to flame the guys on forums. This attracts moderator/gm attention and will get you an infraction on the forums but might get them banned. It’s called gambling.
- rewatch my older video where I serve justice to them griefers. It feels good

That’s it, I’m flying away now before I get infracted :p

You and your illegal vedios.

y u no read CoC?

SlyDevil.3952:

Did they deliberately and in full knowledge take the instance and complete the path ignoring the wishes of the lfg poster? Thats griefing him!!!! Which falls under LFG abuse, and if anet decides to ban for that offense, then it can be bannable.

Was it behaviour that can be reported and punished? Yes. Will anet prioritize it over other things? Idk, report it and find out.

No its not. Your definition would mean anyone joining a group and not killing every creature is bannable since the poster said full clear. Or the player stacking needs the axe when the description said no stacking. They didn’t prevent the OP from doing the dungeon, if anything they helped them finish it. And remember abusing the report feature is also a bannable offense. You are taking the time from a GM from helping someone that might really need help.

TheGrimm.5624:

SlyDevil.3952:

Did they deliberately and in full knowledge take the instance and complete the path ignoring the wishes of the lfg poster? Thats griefing him!!!! Which falls under LFG abuse, and if anet decides to ban for that offense, then it can be bannable.

Was it behaviour that can be reported and punished? Yes. Will anet prioritize it over other things? Idk, report it and find out.

No its not. Your definition would mean anyone joining a group and not killing every creature is bannable since the poster said full clear. Or the player stacking needs the axe when the description said no stacking. They didn’t prevent the OP from doing the dungeon, if anything they helped them finish it. And remember abusing the report feature is also a bannable offense. You are taking the time from a GM from helping someone that might really need help.

Not bannable, it is causing the player grief, griefing. If you go into a dungeon where the player posted for full clear, and you purposely skip things to cause him grief, then you have abused the player via the lfg. While yes, you have used the lfg as intended to find a group, you have used it to abuse players as well which is not what it is for. Is this bannable? Go ask support but it is reportable.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

robertul.3679:

is basically like going at night in a shady neighbourhood then complain you got robbed :P

If I’m not mistaken, even if I’m dumb and robbed in a shady neighbourhood there would be atleast an attempt at restoring justice, unlike here

Anet is simply not willing to put human man-hours into policing the game. Your case definitely requires a human to make a judgement call, so there’s zero chance you’re going to get justice.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

1st: What constitutes LFG Abuse in the report section? Is it not griefing?

Gold selling and other things of the like that are against the terms and conditions. Nothing is done to these players because nowhere does it say you have to pay gold to join a group in the LFG system. If ArenaNet truly wanted to support this behavior they would add something to the LFG tool such as pay to join party and can’t get kicked. They don’t say either that it is forbidden so as others have stated use at your own risk.

If they did not kick you, you cannot report them for anything. As others have pointed out, Arenanet tolerates selling of paths but they sure do not endorse or in any way care about it. You were operating in a gray area so the “law” is not exactly on your side even if not paying was a scrubby move.