Guild Wars 2

Hi guys. I have a FOTM level 20 Necro and a few other classes around level 10. What are the common and more effective classes and builds in higher levels? Is it the same as every other dungeon where you have guardians, warriors and more guardians? I personally find with my Necro I am not really contributing enough by time I get to level 20. Im concerned if I continue with the Necro that will become more apparent.

Guardian is by far the best. At 40s its great to have 2 and they are in demand. Even at 20-30s its nice to have 2. Mesmers are nice too as long as there is just 1 in the group. Warrior or Theif would be the next best choice of your characters you have. Theifs make the dredge go by fast and painlessly as well as provide another form of reflect. Warriors are pretty obvious what they bring but they don’t do quite as well as in other dungeons facerolling stuff in melee range the whole time. Elementalist after those choices since they have decent support and the focus skill that destroys projectiles.

I’ve never seen a necro 30+. I’d imagine it would be hard to get a group as one in the 40s. I don’t see many engineers or rangers either later on. There are a lot of projectiles and they hurt badly later on and those 3 provide no support for that and don’t have the dps of a warrior. So those 3 classes bring little or nothing to help the group in fractals. Rangers had their use but it was nerfed.

Top 3 are guardian, mesmer (as long as they have focus skills reflect), and thief (since they solo half the dungeon which makes life for the team 1000x easier). After that the next tier is ele, warrior, engi. At the very bottom goes ranger and necro. Rangers were higher but they got nerfed HARD in fractals this last patch.

Id take a Necro before a warrior, someone who knows how to play a Necro can keep them stacks of conditions up, can make some of them boss fights a breeze, espically the fights where you just cannot tank them….

didn’t mean necros were worthless, just meant they are the class with the least amount of tools for FotM

I’d take any class into fractals (haven’t done 40+, though). All classes have strengths and weaknesses and if you have people who know theirs, np.

Our usual group consists of Guardian, Warrior, Elementalist, Mesmer, but as I said, I won’t hesitate taking any other classes. As long as I’m not running a full group of condition Necromancers. :p

randomfightfan.4091:

Top 3 are guardian, mesmer (as long as they have focus skills reflect), and thief (since they solo half the dungeon which makes life for the team 1000x easier). After that the next tier is ele, warrior, engi. At the very bottom goes ranger and necro. Rangers were higher but they got nerfed HARD in fractals this last patch.

eh? You mean them making search and rescue useless was a HARD nerf? I haven’t seen anyone use it for months to begin with.

Trollhammer.7439:

eh? You mean them making search and rescue useless was a HARD nerf? I haven’t seen anyone use it for months to begin with.

Then you haven’t seen it used well. Grawl fractal, frak 48 for groups that don’t have the ar (and to avoid res rushing), dredge fractal, etc. Pretty much and high risk situation for resing was avoidable due to snr. Really feel for the rangers on this one. On 48, it’s almost a guarantee that someone is going to go down somewhere. That’s why snr was as good as it was.

randomfightfan.4091:

Trollhammer.7439:

eh? You mean them making search and rescue useless was a HARD nerf? I haven’t seen anyone use it for months to begin with.

Then you haven’t seen it used well. Grawl fractal, frak 48 for groups that don’t have the ar (and to avoid res rushing), dredge fractal, etc. Pretty much and high risk situation for resing was avoidable due to snr. Really feel for the rangers on this one. On 48, it’s almost a guarantee that someone is going to go down somewhere. That’s why snr was as good as it was.

Search and Rescue is a gimmick that is never really needed, and was not particularly useful in combat to begin with. That’s not even remotely a reason to bring a ranger. You bring ranger for water field and for crit spam with ghost pepper poppers.
While I do agree that rangers are at the bottom of the food chain in high end PVE, claiming that it was a hard nerf is absurd. Eyebrow raiser for sure, but a nerf? Not really.
The real reason for it was a heavy handed fix to rez at Jade Maw… of course 99% rez still works just fine, so idk wth they thinking.

Guardian
Warrior
Mesmer

In no particular order.
Guardians only role is to spam reflection and hopefully protection and other boons while maintaining a reasonble damage output.
Conclusion: Effective and reliable damage migitation, great overall boon support, medium damage. Are a neccessity in high level fractals where AoE projectiles wipe your entire party.

Berserker Warriors are there primarily for massive DPS spikes while using axe/mace and eviscerate for sustained DPS before going to GS 100b. They’re also responsible for granting perma fury, might (For Great Justice) and bring at least Discipline (Precision+ crit damage) and Strength (power+condition duration) and empower allies for 70+ power to all allies.
Conclusion: With the highest DPS and offensive support and a natural tankiness, 2 warriors should be doing 70%+ of the parties complete damage. High DPS=less enemies=less threats=faster and smoother run.

Mesmer are a utility class. Mesmers are used mainly for timewarp a great damage enhancer via aoe quickness, range of boons, some reflective skills, few conditions and moderate DPS. A Mesmer should be constantly changing their skills to best reflect the situation such as portal for swamp and dredge and reflection skills for uncatagorized fractal (harpy). In addition to that, they must keep timewarp and signet of inspiration stapled to their skillbar. Signet of Inspiration’s active ability should be used to double the might and fury given out by warriors (as well as other boons given by guardians but it’s focus should be to enhance dps).
Conclusion: Mesmers have potential to cover most of the roles of Guardians and Warriors while having having their own exclusive way to bring damage enhancing skills to the party but not able to outperform the other classes in their primary role. Mesmers bring everything remotely usefull that the other Warriors and Guardians can’t provide. It’s popular to bring just 1 mesmer in every fractal run.

My recommendation.
2 guardians (at least 1 of them zerker)
2 zerker warriors
1 mesmer

jul.7602:

My recommendation.
2 guardians (at least 1 of them zerker)
2 zerker warriors
1 mesmer

This, topic closed

jul.7602:

My recommendation.
2 guardians (at least 1 of them zerker)
2 zerker warriors
1 mesmer

This is the correct answer.

Players are too stuck with their CoF farming mindset that distinguishes between useful classes such as warriors, guardians and mesmers and useless such as the rest. In PvE players always go for the most obvious: big numbers from hundred blades and haste from timewarp. Tactics aren’t favored, because they’re the best, but because they’re “visually” the most obvious.
Just have a look on lfg.com for fractals. There are three criteria: Are you a Guardian? Do you wear heavy armor? What’s your AR? The same type of people that wants their group to have “min 35AR for lvl 32 daily” also insists on having at least two Guardians in their team. This behavior is not due to a high level of understanding for the game mechanics, it’s due to a lack of it.

Having played up to level 48 FotM and run 100s of times with PUGs. Here are my feelings.

Guardian: Having 1 Guardian makes runs much smoother, having 2 can really help but is not essential.
Thief: Having 1 is really useful, but no in anyway essential. They provide nice DPS, Stealth and Blind Walls are excellent for certain encounters. They can also be very squishy.
Engineer: I place this very high up my list of preferred professions for a few reasons, which I will explain as I don’t think they get enough credit. They had very good AOE ranged damage which is very good for a lot of fights where melee is dangerous at high levels. They also have a really useful toolbox, can perma-cripple bosses, throw out a reasonable amount of blinds, can Stealth their team for a good amount of time. They can even out-heal a lot of classes, even when not stated for it, due to the fact they can have so many different healing skills equipped at the same time. In other words though they don’t excel at anything they can adapt to fill in what a team needs in any given situation very well. The can also survive Agony from the Maw at level 48.
Mesmer: The mesmer was my main FotM for a long while, and it definitely has it’s uses, I just don’t think they are as essential to success as everyone makes out, a lot of the time all I felt I was giving to the team was DPS as the cooldowns on the few useful utilities in most situations was so long. Portal is really useful in the Swamp, but by the time you get to 48 most people can run it without.
Warrior: Lets put it like this, I’ve seen far more Warriors that have almost been a detriment to the group than ones that have actually pulled their weight. Now I’m not saying they can’t be great, however too many care more about big numbers than their team and their own survival. A dead Warrior does no damage. Now saying all this I have run with some great Warriors and I don’t think the class is bad in FotM, just if I had the choice I don’t think they would be the first on my list.

Rangers/Necros/Elementalist: I don’t feel any of these really shine for me in FotM, now that’s not to say they can’t bring things to the team. They definitely can. Just the tools they have are not quite as defined. Rare is the encounter where I feel, what we need right now is X (In the way I would think “What we need now is a Guardian for Walls of Reflection.”)

Overall. I do think all classes can play a part in a successful FotM. However certain classes bring tools which do special jobs.

I used to main a Necro and then I made a Guardian for FotM. Haven’t looked back since. As much as I enjoy playing my Necromancer, it just can’t compare with what a Guardian brings to the team. Aegis. Perma-burn. Condition Removals. Stability. Regeneration. Retaliation. Interrupts. Knockbacks. Pulls. Immobilise. Projectile Reflection/Absorption. Light combo field. Team needs a little boost? Perma-might/frequent heals. Speed. Did I mention Line of Warding for Ascalon warriors?

There is absolutely no way I can spec my Necro to bring that kind of support to the team. Wells are good for conditions/boons/heals assuming everyone stands still in your little circle. The only skill I would consider remotely OP for Necro is epidemic and it’s kinda useless if there’s only one boss.

Guardian and DPS warrior as ANY dungeon….
There is not even to question…currently PvE has just 2 professions.

Any other profession will require not only way more time but also lot of efforts.

You can use anything you want in fractals and still complete it. This game does not require you to bring anyone to anything. You can complete any fractal/dungeon at any difficulty level with any party make-up as long as they know how to play the game.

With that said, the alarming amount of ranged mobs in FotM makes any class with anti-range (guard, ele, mesmer) particularly useful. However they are not by any means a requirement if your party knows the most important rule in all of guildwars: don’t get hit, use your dodge.

To many people are focused on “Well if I can’t do the best (insert role here) than I don’t want to play this class.” There is no award for completing a dungeon/fractal faster than anyone else. To say that there are only two classes in the game, warrior and guard is ridiculous. Could you do it faster with 2 guards, 2 wars, and a mes? sure, does it matter? of course not. No one cares that you can complete your fractal/dungeon 5 minutes before another group.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

You can use anything you want in fractals and still complete it. This game does not require you to bring anyone to anything. You can complete any fractal/dungeon at any difficulty level with any party make-up as long as they know how to play the game.

With that said, the alarming amount of ranged mobs in FotM makes any class with anti-range (guard, ele, mesmer) particularly useful. However they are not by any means a requirement if your party knows the most important rule in all of guildwars: don’t get hit, use your dodge.

To many people are focused on “Well if I can’t do the best (insert role here) than I don’t want to play this class.” There is no award for completing a dungeon/fractal faster than anyone else. To say that there are only two classes in the game, warrior and guard is ridiculous. Could you do it faster with 2 guards, 2 wars, and a mes? sure, does it matter? of course not. No one cares that you can complete your fractal/dungeon 5 minutes before another group.

Player skill can mitigate the ridiculous UNBALANCE of PvE….it can t in no way remove it.

Good players using OP classes can go on higher level fotm in half time with half effort.
Same players won t be able to achive the same results with ANY other class.

LordByron.8369:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

You can use anything you want in fractals and still complete it. This game does not require you to bring anyone to anything. You can complete any fractal/dungeon at any difficulty level with any party make-up as long as they know how to play the game.

With that said, the alarming amount of ranged mobs in FotM makes any class with anti-range (guard, ele, mesmer) particularly useful. However they are not by any means a requirement if your party knows the most important rule in all of guildwars: don’t get hit, use your dodge.

To many people are focused on “Well if I can’t do the best (insert role here) than I don’t want to play this class.” There is no award for completing a dungeon/fractal faster than anyone else. To say that there are only two classes in the game, warrior and guard is ridiculous. Could you do it faster with 2 guards, 2 wars, and a mes? sure, does it matter? of course not. No one cares that you can complete your fractal/dungeon 5 minutes before another group.

Player skill can mitigate the ridiculous UNBALANCE of PvE….it can t in no way remove it.

Good players using OP classes can go on higher level fotm in half time with half effort.
Same players won t be able to achive the same results with ANY other class.

as it stands no one can go past 48. My guild has gotten there using pretty much whoever speaks up in guild chat and says “yeah I got the resist lets go” Half the effort maybe… but there is definitely no NEED for one class over another.

Furthermore, I’m pretty convinced Anet never intended us to go past 38 in the current build of the game, and I think we can all agree that you can do 38 with nooooooo problems using any class you want. We might argue about 48, but believe me it’s totally doable, just a little more challenging dependent on which fractals you get.

There is no reward for putting in less effort or finishing a fractal faster. Therefore, there is no need for some classes over another. I guess if you’d rather be optimal than enjoy your class sure go ahead and play those. Me personally, I’d rather play what I enjoy and take an extra 5-10 minutes finishing a fractal.

you can win fotm 79 ….
People unlocked 80 pre patch.

not to mention how easy is to say that if you do the same thing in half time you get double reward in full time.

So without guard and wars 2 hours run will be the norm
With 1 hour or less..

Its the same of completing a dungeon with 20+ wipes or a perfect run.
And actually as i said the efort/skill required changes a lot.

Lets pretend that your skill with warrior get you to a max level of 39 and you fail at 40…
With a ranger you would be locked in 20-30

I am just going to quote myself from the last time this topic was brought up.

“I play Fractals 48 every night on my Necro. I might not have a reflect, but the entire team gets spammed boons from my conversions and the enemies lose boons like Protection due to my conversions. I maintain permanent cripple on bosses like the Ettin and Archdiviner, along with Chill, giving team members room to breath. I can pop any number of skills to inflict huge lengths of spammed blind and reduce dps far more than a projectile reflect would in similar situations (trust me, Plague against Grawl boss elementals is better than Shield of the Avenger). I can pop an instant-cast interrupt and have saved teams before by doing so on a boss that would otherwise have killed a critical other member of the team. I can do all of this, and I can still out-tank Warriors that run with me when I need to.

The people I run with nightly have come to ask me to bring my Necro over my Guardian or Mesmer or Warrior because I speed things up. The fact that some players aren’t properly using their class does not mean that the class is bad or inferior, it just means that people aren’t giving it as much thought as it deserves. Seriously, all of the classes are amazing in the hands of a good player."

For the record, we never wipe, and our dps flows like a river. 45 minute runs are common depending on what fractals my friends and I roll.

LordByron.8369:

you can win fotm 79 ….
People unlocked 80 pre patch.

not to mention how easy is to say that if you do the same thing in half time you get double reward in full time.

So without guard and wars 2 hours run will be the norm
With 1 hour or less..

Its the same of completing a dungeon with 20+ wipes or a perfect run.
And actually as i said the efort/skill required changes a lot.

Lets pretend that your skill with warrior get you to a max level of 39 and you fail at 40…
With a ranger you would be locked in 20-30

Except there is no reason to run the same fractal twice. Even if you finish in 2 hours as opposed to 1 hour… which is totally not the case but lets just say it is for the sake of argument, what difference does it make? you can only run it once a day anyway.

theres alot classes you can choose from, even at lvl 79 fracs.
we usually take 1 ele 2 wars 2 gaurds (prefferebly) but we had nechro’s, mesmers, thieves and rangers as wel.
they all have their pro’s and con’s some are really good at certain fracs some at others.

for example when ever we get dredge i reroll to my thief to stealth till the champ

Why are Necros bad in Fractals?
I switched to Necro after a friend started playing Guardian with me in Fractals, and I feel like my Power / Pre / Condi gear lets me do a lot of AoE damage.
It’s true they don’t have any projectile reflect, minimal friendly buffs, minimal condition cleansing (compared to a Guardian), but if you already have a Guardian or Mesmer doing tons of projectile reflect and condition cleansing, it just seems to me like a Necro is a good choice for damage and debuffs while being more durable than the a Thief or Warrior (you can even DS the Agony damage).

Well, I guess without some way to record combat logs and parse them, we’ll never really be able to intelligently discuss DPS classes

Miseris.7498:

Why are Necros bad in Fractals?
I switched to Necro after a friend started playing Guardian with me in Fractals, and I feel like my Power / Pre / Condi gear lets me do a lot of AoE damage.
It’s true they don’t have any projectile reflect, minimal friendly buffs, minimal condition cleansing (compared to a Guardian), but if you already have a Guardian or Mesmer doing tons of projectile reflect and condition cleansing, it just seems to me like a Necro is a good choice for damage and debuffs while being more durable than the a Thief or Warrior (you can even DS the Agony damage).

Well, I guess without some way to record combat logs and parse them, we’ll never really be able to intelligently discuss DPS classes

Necro is far from bad in fotm, but 97% of necro players are. (Wells!!!!! Use it….)